What If Jimmy brings Chuck Back in 18?

[strt182]

16 hours ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

I don't think you guys realize just how much fans of other teams pay attention to other teams these days.

typically for fantasy football reason i am sure. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

This got 6 pages, pretty impressive  

[JColts72]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

This got 6 pages, pretty impressive  

...and thanks to all!

[JColts72]

16 hours ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Late game collapses will happen when you have a very thin roster caused by bad injuries and/or bad personnel decisions

These collapses even occurred when did not have such injuries; it all goes to bad coaching.

[crazycolt1]

4 hours ago, J@son said:

 

There was nothing antagonistic about his post. Maybe keep that victim card in the deck once in a while ;) 

You know better than that Jason.

[colt18]

If Pagano is brought back, I honestly might not even watch the Colts games.

 

It would be another complete waste of a Colts season with a lame duck at HC.

[colt18]

21 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yup....

 

Caldwell was the coach that became Baltimore's OC late in the 2012 year when they went to the Super Bowl.

 

He took over around week 13,  straightened out their offense,  and kept it hot during the playoffs and SB.

 

Heck,  Joe Flacco should probably write him a large check for helping him earn his big contract!

 

Caldwell is not nearly as bad as many fans here want to believe.     And neither is Pagano.     And neither was Manusky and neither was Pep.

 

When things go south here,  this crowd becomes a pitch forks and torches crowd,  and they look for someone to blame....           Nothing changes....

 

 

Nope. Both were sub par head coaches during their times in Indy.

[Lawrence Owen]

it is possible Chuck is brought back.  That would not end my love for the Colts, but my hopes might go down some.  I see A LOT of promise in quite a few players we have right now. And i think some more time in the system and some luckier rolls on the Health dice would make this team a contender.  We been in most games this year,...1/2 our losses were due to a turnover at the end of the game.  It makes it awefully hard to digest how many of those happen when there were no turnovers the rest of the game.  Makes me think Brissett is not very good under pressure. Not the physical type, the mental, end of game, and need to make the right move type.  Another guard, and put Good back on the Tackle and our o-line could be upper-middle-class.  D-line is pretty darn solid, and even the lb's and secondary play well the more the season progresses.  By the end of the year, at this pace our defense could be a top 10-15 unit.  But until we get that guard, and the tackle situation solved, our qb's are going to be needing to learn how to play 'hot-potato'.

[Jason_]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

You know better than that Jason.

 

Typically yes, but what I said has been kinda true here lately and the post I replied to was a perfect example.  He wasnt being antagonistic at all. I have seen plenty of people attack you over your opinion of Pagano and maybe that has you more on edge than normal. But of you start accusing everyone who disagrees with you of attacking you then you're going to alienate some good people. Just food for thought. 

 

I have no problem with difference of opinion... I do disagree with you about Pagano. He was handicapped somewhat, I agree there, but he's made plenty of mistakes that are unrelated to the lack of talent and not having Luck. I do think he should be fired. You don't. That's fine. 

 

 

[Surge89]

1 minute ago, J@son said:

 

Typically yes, but what I said has been kinda true here lately and the post I replied to was a perfect example.  He wasnt being antagonistic at all. I have seen plenty of people attack you over your opinion of Pagano and maybe that has you more on edge than normal. But of you start accusing everyone who disagrees with you of attacking you then you're going to alienate some good people. Just food for thought. 

 

I have no problem with difference of opinion... I do disagree with you about Pagano. He was handicapped somewhat, I agree there, but he's made plenty of mistakes that are unrelated to the lack of talent and not having Luck. I do think he should be fired. You don't. That's fine. 

 

 

 

TBH I see both of your points, even though cc tends to lump people together on things.  I see how Pagano has gotten a terrible deal here in Indy.  I also can look over some of the coaches issues Pagano has in relation to how hard his team plays for him, but what I can't do anymore of is the terrible offensive scheme that he apparently desires in Indy.  It's just not good enough for us to dominate in this league and that more than anything else needs to be replaced. 

[crazycolt1]

23 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

Typically yes, but what I said has been kinda true here lately and the post I replied to was a perfect example.  He wasnt being antagonistic at all. I have seen plenty of people attack you over your opinion of Pagano and maybe that has you more on edge than normal. But of you start accusing everyone who disagrees with you of attacking you then you're going to alienate some good people. Just food for thought. 

 

I have no problem with difference of opinion... I do disagree with you about Pagano. He was handicapped somewhat, I agree there, but he's made plenty of mistakes that are unrelated to the lack of talent and not having Luck. I do think he should be fired. You don't. That's fine. 

 

 

Fair enough my friend.

[Fluke_33]

23 hours ago, Dingus McGirt said:

My family (mom, dad, etc...not my wife) have always called me "Jimmy."  But as an adult I go by my club name - "Jim."  :^)

The Who call him Dr. Jimmy and Mr. Jim.  When he's pilled you won't notice him.  He only comes out when he drinks his gin.

[crazycolt1]

51 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

TBH I see both of your points, even though cc tends to lump people together on things.  I see how Pagano has gotten a terrible deal here in Indy.  I also can look over some of the coaches issues Pagano has in relation to how hard his team plays for him, but what I can't do anymore of is the terrible offensive scheme that he apparently desires in Indy.  It's just not good enough for us to dominate in this league and that more than anything else needs to be replaced. 

I understand and know exactly why you feel that way. I am not blind to the facts. My point is does Pagano really have the players it takes to have any schemes be successful? He has no depth at any position with the exception of one or two. He may scheme any number of things but without the players to carry those out they fail. He has not had a starting o-line since he has been here. He has not had any talented linebackers either. It is simple to say he hasn't done a good job but without looking and seeing why IMO is being short sighted.

Changing head coaches does not automatically make things better. Starting from scratch with a whole new coaching crew can fail really quick.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, colt18 said:

 

Nope. Both were sub par head coaches during their times in Indy.

 

The facts say otherwise...

 

Caldwell:  14-2, 10-6, and 2-14 without Peyton.    He got fired when Irsay fired Polian and cleaned house with Grigson.

 

Pagano:  11-5, 11-5, 11-5, 8-8, 8-8 and now this year without Luck.    

 

Thetes no no place in the NFL world where that is viewed as "sub-par."

 

The only people who think of that as subpar are unhappy fans...

 

 

[colt18]

24 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The facts say otherwise...

 

Caldwell:  14-2, 10-6, and 2-14 without Peyton.    He got fired when Irsay fired Polian and cleaned house with Grigson.

 

Pagano:  11-5, 11-5, 11-5, 8-8, 8-8 and now this year without Luck.    

 

Thetes no no place in the NFL world where that is viewed as "sub-par."

 

The only people who think of that as subpar are unhappy fans...

 

 

 

He only went 14-2 and 10-6 because he had Peyton. Using team W-L records to prove a coach is foolish. Coaches are proven during the game with their in game adjustments, real time decisions and gameplans. There are numerous examples of Caldwell and Pagano displaying their incompetence, ESPECIALLY Pagano. I mean there's literally no argument against Pagano being incompetent. The 4th down trick play against the Pats blows any argument you have out of the water.

 

 

It isn't only unhappy fans who think Pags is sub par. It's also fans who can clearly see that Pags is holding this team back, regardless of him battling cancer and having success directly because of Luck.

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, colt18 said:

 

He only went 14-2 and 10-6 because he had Peyton. Using team W-L records to prove a coach is foolish. Coaches are proven during the game with their in game adjustments, real time decisions and gameplans. There are numerous examples of Caldwell and Pagano displaying their incompetence, ESPECIALLY Pagano. I mean there's literally no argument against Pagano being incompetent. The 4th down trick play against the Pats blows any argument you have out of the water.

 

 

It isn't only unhappy fans who think Pags is sub par. It's also fans who can clearly see that Pags is holding this team back, regardless of him battling cancer and having success directly because of Luck.

 

Like I said...     unhappy fan.

 

But within the NFL,  no one thinks of them as sub-par...     that was your term.

 

The facts say otherwise.

 

[colt18]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Like I said...     unhappy fan.

 

But within the NFL,  no one thinks of them as sub-par...     that was your term.

 

The facts say otherwise.

 

 

*Smart fan. 

 

How do you know no one within the NFL thinks of them as sub par? Because you dont? lol it's a known fact that Pags is a joke around the league.

 

Again, using W-L record to say a coach is good......is absolutely foolish. I'd like you to explain exactly what makes Caldwell and Pagano good coaches, since clearly they were the main reason for their records.

[Surge89]

25 minutes ago, colt18 said:

 

*Smart fan. 

 

How do you know no one within the NFL thinks of them as sub par? Because you dont? lol it's a known fact that Pags is a joke around the league.

 

Again, using W-L record to say a coach is good......is absolutely foolish. I'd like you to explain exactly what makes Caldwell and Pagano good coaches, since clearly they were the main reason for their records.

 

Err...  Pagano isn't considered a joke in the league... and I want him gone too.  But he is highly liked by players and coaches and is known as a good motivator...

[colt18]

4 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

Err...  Pagano isn't considered a joke in the league... and I want him gone too.  But he is highly liked by players and coaches and is known as a good motivator...

https://sports.yahoo.com/chuck-pagano-chronicle-coaching-incompetence-153444066.html

 

http://thebiglead.com/2017/10/23/chuck-pagano-is-somehow-still-the-coach-in-indianapolis-but-might-not-be-for-much-longer/

 

I could post articles all day about how much Pagano has sucked and is known for his incompetence, but really I don't think you guys are getting what I'm saying. His own players and coaches may like him but you honestly believe that coaches of opposing teams are scared of getting outcoached by this guy? The same guy that called the worst trick play in NFL history? Cmon. 

[Surge89]

1 minute ago, colt18 said:

https://sports.yahoo.com/chuck-pagano-chronicle-coaching-incompetence-153444066.html

 

http://thebiglead.com/2017/10/23/chuck-pagano-is-somehow-still-the-coach-in-indianapolis-but-might-not-be-for-much-longer/

 

I could post articles all day about how much Pagano has sucked and is known for his incompetence, but really I don't think you guys are getting what I'm saying. His own players and coaches may like him but you honestly believe that coaches of opposing teams are scared of getting outcoached by this guy? The same guy that called the worst trick play in NFL history? Cmon. 

 

Yahoo and "thebiglead" are more reputable than ESPN and NFL Network? lol cmon...  There have been heaps of praise and also numerous articles stating that if Pagano leaves Indy this year he is going to be a commodity for the next coaching free agency.  

 

You can have your opinion, but don't act like it is universal fact... It isn't.  

[NewColtsFan]

34 minutes ago, colt18 said:

 

*Smart fan. 

 

How do you know no one within the NFL thinks of them as sub par? Because you dont? lol it's a known fact that Pags is a joke around the league.

 

Again, using W-L record to say a coach is good......is absolutely foolish. I'd like you to explain exactly what makes Caldwell and Pagano good coaches, since clearly they were the main reason for their records.

 

Look...   You're new to the website...   and what you're asking about has been hashed and rehashed for years here...

 

And one of the things I've learned the hard way is that you're not going to change your mind no matter what I write.

 

You have your beliefs...    you know what you know....   and you're not changing your mind on this.   And that's fine.

 

I'm just not going that road again...   and I find defending Pagano and Caldwell to be easy.    

 

I'd like you to enjoy the website...   we will have to just agree to disagree...

 

[colt18]

1 minute ago, Surge89 said:

 

Yahoo and "thebiglead" are more reputable than ESPN and NFL Network? lol cmon...  There have been heaps of praise and also numerous articles stating that if Pagano leaves Indy this year he is going to be a commodity for the next coaching free agency.  

 

You can have your opinion, but don't act like it is universal fact... It isn't.  

 

I can post articles from those sites proving my point as well.

 

 

In fact, I'd like to see these numerous articles that praise Pagano and call him a commodity. 

[Surge89]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

I understand and know exactly why you feel that way. I am not blind to the facts. My point is does Pagano really have the players it takes to have any schemes be successful? He has no depth at any position with the exception of one or two. He may scheme any number of things but without the players to carry those out they fail. He has not had a starting o-line since he has been here. He has not had any talented linebackers either. It is simple to say he hasn't done a good job but without looking and seeing why IMO is being short sighted.

Changing head coaches does not automatically make things better. Starting from scratch with a whole new coaching crew can fail really quick.

 

 

Yep I can see that.  I've been a constant voice on this forum for improved talent at the ILB spot for the entire tenure of Grigson and he didn't address. 

 

On the oline, this is one of my issues. While I agree the talent was top tier that Grigson brought in he did bring in a bunch of bodies.  Regardless of the GM influence Pagano set himself up for failure by the demand for such a long ball oriented offense.  As a good HC you have to understand your own teams limitations and play to their strengths and I feel like that is something that hasn't been done during Pagano's stay here.   I will say this though.  I do think that like Dungy he gets every bit that he can out of his players.  I just don't think he initially has them in a position to succeed. 

 

You are definitely right on the HC swap not equating to more success.  But at this point we have a point of no return and we need someone to protect the arm of Luck.  If that doesn't happen it really doesn't matter who is HC of this team. 

[colt18]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Look...   You're new to the website...   and what you're asking about has been hashed and rehashed for years here...

 

And one of the things I've learned the hard way is that you're not going to change your mind no matter what I write.

 

You have your beliefs...    you know what you know....   and you're not changing your mind on this.   And that's fine.

 

I'm just not going that road again...   and I find defending Pagano and Caldwell to be easy.    

 

I'd like you to enjoy the website...   we will have to just agree to disagree...

 

 

I've been lurking here for a while, I'm very familiar with the site thank you very much. 

 

And the difference between my opinion and yours is that I can back up my points easily, however anytime I ask you or other Pagano supporters for proof they always seem to leave the discussion.

[NewColtsFan]

7 minutes ago, colt18 said:

 

I've been lurking here for a while, I'm very familiar with the site thank you very much. 

 

And the difference between my opinion and yours is that I can back up my points easily, however anytime I ask you or other Pagano supporters for proof they always seem to leave the discussion.

 

You've been here for two years.   I checked your profile.

 

And people like me leave the discussion but it's a waste of time to discuss this with you.      And it's been beaten to death over years,  even long before you joined.       As I said....    you believe what you believe....    you know what you know....    and you're not going to change your mind.

 

So,   what's the point?

 

You don't like Pagano.     I believe he's likely going to be fired in January.     You'll get your wish.  

 

And we can all move on to hopefully a better 2018.       Fair enough?

 

[colt18]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

You've been here for two years.   I checked your profile.

 

And people like me leave the discussion but it's a waste of time to discuss this with you.      And it's been beaten to death over years,  even long before you joined.       As I said....    you believe what you believe....    you know what you know....    and you're not going to change your mind.

 

So,   what's the point?

 

You don't like Pagano.     I believe he's likely going to be fired in January.     You'll get your wish.  

 

And we can all move on to hopefully a better 2018.       Fair enough?

 

 

Fair enough.

 

Everyone here is a Colts fan and would like to see us win another SB. I personally just don't think Pags is the guy to help us do it. 

[NewColtsFan]

19 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

Yahoo and "thebiglead" are more reputable than ESPN and NFL Network? lol cmon...  There have been heaps of praise and also numerous articles stating that if Pagano leaves Indy this year he is going to be a commodity for the next coaching free agency.  

 

You can have your opinion, but don't act like it is universal fact... It isn't.  

 

Surge....

 

I've defended Pagano since practically the day I joined here in May of 2012....

 

I was the poster who noted in January of 2016 that NFL.com reported that when Irsay was about to let Pagano go, a number of owners told him that if he did,  they'd offer Pagano their HC job.      But that was 2016.

 

Now,  two years later,   I don't see articles saying the same thing.    And I don't think Pags will be a hot commodity in January of 2018 as he was in 2016.      An owner is not going to want to face the local media with a new HC whose last 3 years are 8-8, 8-8 and whatever we do this year.     Even though there are circumstancees out of Pags control,  there's just too much baggage to bring with him.      Hiring Pags in 2018 is not going to be a sexy hire for the fan base.    I'd love to be wrong,  but my experience with these things tells me the window on Pags being a sexy hire for another team has closed.     

 

I see Pagano either becoming a DC,  or retiring.    Remember,  he's still got two more years to go on his contract,  so that will be a nice retirement plan!      

[NewColtsFan]

Just now, colt18 said:

 

Fair enough.

 

Everyone here is a Colts fan and would like to see us win another SB. I personally just don't think Pags is the guy to help us do it. 

 

On that,  we agree.    

 

I like Pags, and think he's an average coach,  and I think the Colts and Luck deserve better than average.     And I don't see Pags taking us to the SB and helping us win.     I agree with that completely.

 

[masterlock]

On 11/14/2017 at 8:09 AM, BlueShoe said:

 

He hired a new GM who has done worse (record) than Grigson. 

 

There are a lot of variables at play, but unless we win 5 of the last 6 then the statement will be true.

 

No pitchfork reply’s needed from anyone. I am not defending Grigson, and was glad he was let go. Truth is, according to our record, we are going backwards. Hopefully that somehow allows us to go forward. We can all be as optimistic as we want to be, but it still has to play out like we all want it to. 

Saying "according to our record, we are going backwards" might be technically true, but it is a hollow statement at best. When your franchise quarterback doesn't play, and you inherited an aging, slow, untalented roster, it says more about your predecessor than it does you as a GM.

[Susie Q]

On 11/14/2017 at 7:59 AM, DaveA1102 said:

 

I would actually say it would be a total shock.  I don't think it can happen as Jim seems all in on Ballard and you are holding back what Ballard is trying to do for the team with the coaching staff that are there.

 

Letting Ballard bring in his own guy and moving forward in that dynamic is the only way IMO.

I think I remember when Ballard came in he told Jim that he would give Pagano a year and if it didn't work out Pagano had to go and he would bring his own coaching staff. I may be wrong but don't think so.

[shasta519]

9 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

This got 6 pages, pretty impressive  

 

I was thinking the same thing. This thread is still going?

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, colt18 said:

https://sports.yahoo.com/chuck-pagano-chronicle-coaching-incompetence-153444066.html

 

http://thebiglead.com/2017/10/23/chuck-pagano-is-somehow-still-the-coach-in-indianapolis-but-might-not-be-for-much-longer/

 

I could post articles all day about how much Pagano has sucked and is known for his incompetence, but really I don't think you guys are getting what I'm saying. His own players and coaches may like him but you honestly believe that coaches of opposing teams are scared of getting outcoached by this guy? The same guy that called the worst trick play in NFL history? Cmon. 

Even Belichick said what you called a trick play was a good call had it been executed correctly. Quit letting ESPN and the media tell your mind what to believe.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Susie Q said:

I think I remember when Ballard came in he told Jim that he would give Pagano a year and if it didn't work out Pagano had to go and he would bring his own coaching staff. I may be wrong but don't think so.

Where did you hear that?

[crazycolt1]

3 hours ago, colt18 said:

 

He only went 14-2 and 10-6 because he had Peyton. Using team W-L records to prove a coach is foolish. Coaches are proven during the game with their in game adjustments, real time decisions and gameplans. There are numerous examples of Caldwell and Pagano displaying their incompetence, ESPECIALLY Pagano. I mean there's literally no argument against Pagano being incompetent. The 4th down trick play against the Pats blows any argument you have out of the water.

 

 

It isn't only unhappy fans who think Pags is sub par. It's also fans who can clearly see that Pags is holding this team back, regardless of him battling cancer and having success directly because of Luck.

He only had Peyton? I take it you didn't know the roster of those teams. We had a few all stars on those teams. For you to say it was all because of Peyton just shows you don't have a clue on what talent this team had on it at that time. Does Bethea, Clark, Diem, Freeney, Jackson, Mathis, Sanders, Saturday, Wayne, Rhodes and Addai ring a bell?

[RockThatBlue]

11 hours ago, JColts72 said:

These collapses even occurred when did not have such injuries; it all goes to bad coaching.

Agreed. It seems like other coaches change things up at halftime, and our coaching staff has a hard time adjusting to the changes the other team made.

 

Its almost like they think the other team is going to change nothing, and when they do change things, our staff routinely has no answer for it.

[RockThatBlue]

35 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

He only had Peyton? I take it you didn't know the roster of those teams. We had a few all stars on those teams. For you to say it was all because of Peyton just shows you don't have a clue on what talent this team had on it at that time. Does Bethea, Clark, Diem, Freeney, Jackson, Mathis, Sanders, Saturday, Wayne, Rhodes and Addai ring a bell?

No doubt Caldwell had talent on those teams, but I do think he was mostly carried by Peyton. They only won 2 games the year he was out. If he played they would've won 10+ games probably easily that season. I never felt Caldwell was all that great when he was here.

[crazycolt1]

12 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Agreed. It seems like other coaches change things up at halftime, and our coaching staff has a hard time adjusting to the changes the other team made.

 

Its almost like they think the other team is going to change nothing, and when they do change things, our staff routinely has no answer for it.

Did you ever think this team doesn't have the talent or the depth to make too many adjustments? Just maybe Chuck just puts the most talented players on the field he has? Any coach has to have those things to make things happen.

[OLD FAN MAN]

5 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I understand and know exactly why you feel that way. I am not blind to the facts. My point is does Pagano really have the players it takes to have any schemes be successful? He has no depth at any position with the exception of one or two. He may scheme any number of things but without the players to carry those out they fail. He has not had a starting o-line since he has been here. He has not had any talented linebackers either. It is simple to say he hasn't done a good job but without looking and seeing why IMO is being short sighted.

Changing head coaches does not automatically make things better. Starting from scratch with a whole new coaching crew can fail really quick.

i concur

[deedub75]

On 11/14/2017 at 8:54 AM, Colt.45 said:

There's a mild possibility it'll happen especially if the defense keeps improving. It's possible they switch up just the offensive coordinator and keep the head coach. It may not be what most fans like but it's something I can see happening because of Irsay's antecedents.

If he feels there are no better options around, he will stick with Pagano like he did this season. Last season, one of the guys who went to Buffalo, LA Rams, and San Fran should have replaced Pagano but Jim Irsay took his sweet time. Who is there floating around with the credentials of a Sean McVay?

 

 

Look at the remaining schedule. The defense will continue to improve. 

[deedub75]

7 hours ago, colt18 said:

 

I can post articles from those sites proving my point as well.

 

 

In fact, I'd like to see these numerous articles that praise Pagano and call him a commodity. 

 

Ha! There were also articles praising the Trent Richardson trade and condemning the Browns for getting too little for him. Articles don’t mean much.