Just Say No To Peyton!

[189344Colts]

What if PM has not sufficiently recovered from his multiple surgeries?

Should the Colts pay PM the $28MM option bonus and take the risk? Even after paying $26.4MM last season for him not to play?

If you were the financial manager of the team, and had a fiduciary duty to your employer, what would you advise the owner (your employer) to do?

Admittedly I did not address that side of the argument. If both sides are willing to redo the contracts to satisfy everyone until we know whether he can play or not than that's the road I'd like to take but that's not where the thread started. It wasn't about his current health, it was assuming he IS back to 100%. If he can't play and he knows it I believe he will retire, simple as that, he won't take any chances with HIS body so all of my posts are based on him being healthy and able to play like he did pre-surgery. Now I only have 2 posts left today after this one so if I don't respond, y'all know why.

[Susie Q]

Would be nice if everyone could post what they want to without getting bashed because others don't agree with them. I have seen a lot of relatively new posters post something and then some OP jump on them and repeat things that have been posted many many times. If I was a new poster I would probably stay away rather than get jumped on. Well sorry had to say what has been on my mind and sorry if I offended anyone that was not what I was wanting to do. Have a good evening everyone.

[amff]

What if PM has not sufficiently recovered from his multiple surgeries?

Should the Colts pay PM the $28MM option bonus and take the risk? Even after paying $26.4MM last season for him not to play?

If you were the financial manager of the team, and had a fiduciary duty to your employer, what would you advise the owner (your employer) to do?

I would advise him to restructure the contract or work with him on a advisory basis. I'd tell him to keep him. But then again I don't see eye to eye with you.

[UndecidedFrog]

I would advise him to restructure the contract or work with him on a advisory basis. I'd tell him to keep him. But then again I don't see eye to eye with you.

It isn't important that you see eye to eye with me.

What is more important is that the Colts see the inherent risks associated with paying PM the $28MM option bonus and choose not to pay it, and release PM from this current contract. After which they can negotiate a new contract if PM is willing.

From Mr. Irsay's recent communication, I think the Colts are seeing what I want them to see.

[GoColts8818]

It isn't important that you see eye to eye with me.

What is more important is that the Colts see the inherent risks associated with paying PM the $28MM option bonus and choose not to pay it, and release PM from this current contract. After which they can negotiate a new contract if PM is willing.

From Mr. Irsay's recent communication, I think the Colts are seeing what I want them to see.

If we release him and we are going to resign him I would bet the house that new contract will be in place before we release him and him singing that contract will be a formality. Not unlike what the Colts did with Jeff Herrod years ago.

[UndecidedFrog]

If we release him and we are going to resign him I would bet the house that new contract will be in place before we release him and him singing that contract will be a formality. Not unlike what the Colts did with Jeff Herrod years ago.

Yes, they can have a document ready to go. However, the logistics will have to be met. Release must occur at or before March 8. New contract cannot be signed until after March 11.

[UndecidedFrog]

Admittedly I did not address that side of the argument. If both sides are willing to redo the contracts to satisfy everyone until we know whether he can play or not than that's the road I'd like to take but that's not where the thread started. It wasn't about his current health, it was assuming he IS back to 100%. If he can't play and he knows it I believe he will retire, simple as that, he won't take any chances with HIS body so all of my posts are based on him being healthy and able to play like he did pre-surgery. Now I only have 2 posts left today after this one so if I don't respond, y'all know why.

No worries, and ,....welcome to the forum newbie. :blueshoe:

Come back with your full posting privileges, and we can discuss some more.

[GoColts8818]

Yes, they can have a document ready to go. However, the logistics will have to be met. Release must occur at or before March 8. New contract cannot be signed until after March 11.

I know Frog...

I am just saying the contract will be in place for him to sign before they release him. They aren't going to release him and then try to work out a new contract with him. If they release him with the plan of bringing him back they are going to know he's coming back before he's released and that's what they are going to tell people when they relase hm.

[betheafan41]

I wouldnt mind it if Peyton came back under an incentive laden deal. But if keeping Peyton means we lose out of getting Andrew Luck because Luck wants to start, then I dont like that situation. I want us to be successful long term as a franchise, and I feel Luck gives us the best chance to do that.

I agree with you...Luck is the colts best chance in the long run at succeeding. all manning can give is another 2 years maybe and thats if he can even play this coming up season. plus he still has to agree to a renegotiation of his contract and he laughed at the idea of accepting a lesser deal. so he never confirmed or denied that story. wish he had a twitter account then maybe he would tweet as much as irsay and we would know whats going on lol

[UndecidedFrog]

I agree with you...Luck is the colts best chance in the long run at succeeding. all manning can give is another 2 years maybe and thats if he can even play this coming up season. plus he still has to agree to a renegotiation of his contract and he laughed at the idea of accepting a lesser deal. so he never confirmed or denied that story. wish he had a twitter account then maybe he would tweet as much as irsay and we would know whats going on lol

That's all we need...the dueling tweets.

[189344Colts]

No worries, and ,....welcome to the forum newbie. :blueshoe:

Come back with your full posting privileges, and we can discuss some more.

I've actually been here from the raw beginnings but got tired of fighting to find my old login info then having it not work that it was easier to just create a new user name. I used to be IndyColtsFan18..... I was on a lot during the Colts/Pats war 4 or 5 years ago, busting the butts of the stupid Pats fans that liked to come here and gloat like the jerks that they were.

[UndecidedFrog]

I've actually been here from the raw beginnings but got tired of fighting to find my old login info then having it not work that it was easier to just create a new user name. I used to be IndyColtsFan18..... I was on a lot during the Colts/Pats war 4 or 5 years ago, busting the balls of the stupid Pats fans that liked to come here and gloat like the jerks that they were.

Then welcome back.

Just as you are returning, you will find yourself in the middle of the Peyton-Irsay-Luck/RG3 drama.

[betheafan41]

That's all we need...the dueling tweets.

come on lol it would be better then the press lol

[jlid]

I'm to the point now where I don't even want Peyton back on this team next year. The biggest reason I say that is because I want us as a franchise to prove we are more than just one man. I want us to succeed beyond Peyton to SHUT all these ESPN analysts up when they continue to keep bashing the Colts as of late. I want us to start anew with Luck and have the money we save from not signing Peyton to go out and get very good players in FA to help turn this team around soon.

Your thoughts on my take on this?

Well I agree, but not as some "prove a point" venture. I want Peyton to leave, because like it or not Colts fans, this team ain't winning a Super Bowl before he retires, whether he's a part of it or not. Just accept it. Aside from Peyton, we have the worst long-term roster in the entire league. There isn't a single player on the current roster that will definitely be a significant contributor 3 years from now. What other team can say that? And I'd like to both rebuild for the future (with Luck) AND see Peyton win another Super Bowl or 2 (Lord knows he deserves it). So for the good of everyone, I hope he's healthy, I hope we move on, and in the short-term, I hope that the team he goes to wins 2 or 3 Super Bowls so he can get the respect he deserves.

[189344Colts]

Then welcome back.

Just as you are returning, you will find yourself in the middle of the Peyton-Irsay-Luck/RG3 drama.

Yeah, and the only reason I jumped back in was because I had NO IDEA how to make heads or tails of the draft, the cap and Mannings contract/bonus and how they were all intermingled. I was completely lost and needed a simple minded, laymans answer. Of course, I got it.

This being my last post for 24 hours, I'll keep reading and be back tomorrow, unless some kindhearted, generous, levelheaded mod sees how much fun I am and decides to lift the restriction early *hint hint*

[UndecidedFrog]

Yeah, and the only reason I jumped back in was because I had NO IDEA how to make heads or tails of the draft, the cap and Mannings contract/bonus and how they were all intermingled. I was completely lost and needed a simple minded, laymans answer. Of course, I got it.

This being my last post for 24 hours, I'll keep reading and be back tomorrow, unless some kindhearted, generous, levelheaded mod sees how much fun I am and decides to lift the restriction early *hint hint*

In the meantime, I can recommend this bit of light reading:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Peyton-Predicament-Part-1.html

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Peyton-Predicament-Part-2.html

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Peyton-Predicament-Part-3-9076.html

[LightninMax]

I'm to the point now where I don't even want Peyton back on this team next year. The biggest reason I say that is because I want us as a franchise to prove we are more than just one man. I want us to succeed beyond Peyton to SHUT all these ESPN analysts up when they continue to keep bashing the Colts as of late. I want us to start anew with Luck and have the money we save from not signing Peyton to go out and get very good players in FA to help turn this team around soon.

Your thoughts on my take on this?

I certainly understand your frustrations. I want last year to just be a bump in the road to ongoing wins and super bowls. I want to beat the Patriots, Steelers, Chargers, and Jets like a set of bongo drums! We couldn't do it too much for my tastes.

I really don't have any preferences who's on the team while we do it. It would be sweet to see certain players enjoy the payback they've worked for and deserve.

Until Peyton is declared unable to play football, I think he is so special that with a middle of the pack defense and run game makes that team a super bowl contender!

He's the best I"ve seen in 48 years. Can he or can't he play? That is the question. Smart men in the Colts organization can figure out everything else.

Give Peyton time to prepare. Give Irsay the room to do his thing. Let the rest of the organization dig deep into the combine, draft, and FA's. I hope some of the solutions are there, but there are no guarantees.

THe worst of all world's. Peyton never recovers and is forced to retire. Luck is lost early due to injury or shortcomings that seem to crop up in so many young careers and weren't foreseen prior to draft.

I certainly do share your frustration.

[mrati2d]

So are you saying you want us as a franchise to fail just so you can glorify your lovefest for Peyton?

The franchise did fail without Peyton, thats why everyone has been replaced. Winning without him wont validate anything either because it will be a entirely different concept and entirely different team

[mrati2d]

I've actually been here from the raw beginnings but got tired of fighting to find my old login info then having it not work that it was easier to just create a new user name. I used to be IndyColtsFan18..... I was on a lot during the Colts/Pats war 4 or 5 years ago, busting the butts of the stupid Pats fans that liked to come here and gloat like the jerks that they were.

I have a very similar story

[funktacious2]

I'm to the point now where I don't even want Peyton back on this team next year. The biggest reason I say that is because I want us as a franchise to prove we are more than just one man. I want us to succeed beyond Peyton to SHUT all these ESPN analysts up when they continue to keep bashing the Colts as of late. I want us to start anew with Luck and have the money we save from not signing Peyton to go out and get very good players in FA to help turn this team around soon.

Your thoughts on my take on this?

I think, in terms of success, the bigger question of whether or not we'll be successful in 2-5 years, is how well our new coaching staff works out for us. They are inspiring bunch with good track records, but who knows how it will really play out. Most of the tops franchises (if not all), endure consistency in their coaching staffs (promoting from within if necessary). We now have a whole new coaching staff with likely entirely different approaches to the game than our old staff. How well is it going to sink with with our current roster? Our QB situation can be huge, but we don't even know what kind of defense or offense we're running next year! How far can really get at this point in time with our predictions for success?

[HungarianColtsFan]

I'm to the point now where I don't even want Peyton back on this team next year. The biggest reason I say that is because I want us as a franchise to prove we are more than just one man. I want us to succeed beyond Peyton to SHUT all these ESPN analysts up when they continue to keep bashing the Colts as of late. I want us to start anew with Luck and have the money we save from not signing Peyton to go out and get very good players in FA to help turn this team around soon.

Your thoughts on my take on this?

You know, the problem is, if Luck will be great as QB, ESPN and other analyst will keep on bashing us as a "One man army", but then Luck will be the "One man"...

[John Dee]

I'm to the point now where I don't even want Peyton back on this team next year. The biggest reason I say that is because I want us as a franchise to prove we are more than just one man. I want us to succeed beyond Peyton to SHUT all these ESPN analysts up when they continue to keep bashing the Colts as of late. I want us to start anew with Luck and have the money we save from not signing Peyton to go out and get very good players in FA to help turn this team around soon.

Your thoughts on my take on this?

Bottom line.... This is a "perfect storm"...

1 Manning "not healthy"

2 A Huge "bonus" due at the start of the new NFL year.

3 And most ................... Astonishing.........

Andrew Luck is looking YOU in the face..

It is a NO BRAINER decision, as far as I'm concerned. You take the "young gun" over the ... ummmmmm, "hurt' VET QB.. ??

I ain't feeling Irsay's tactics.... but I am felling his direction,.

[John Dee]

You know, the problem is, if Luck will be great as QB, ESPN and other analyst will keep on bashing us as a "One man army", but then Luck will be the "One man"...

Oh you are sadly mistaken grasshopper... Pags is going to make a mark on this team from the "first" KO...

ST and D and now "priorities"...

[John Dee]

If we release him and we are going to resign him I would bet the house that new contract will be in place before we release him and him singing that contract will be a formality. Not unlike what the Colts did with Jeff Herrod years ago.

Of course... BUT... A 36 year old Manning will NOT choose to stay and rebuild. It just wont.

[John Dee]

Of course... BUT... A 36 year old Manning will NOT choose to stay and rebuild. It just wont.

PR battle Royale... and I am personally PIZZED OFF IT HAD TO COME DOWN THIS WAY.

But, a classy mowe is 'dangerous" for "BOTH" sides.

[GoColts8818]

Of course... BUT... A 36 year old Manning will NOT choose to stay and rebuild. It just wont.

and I don't expect him too.

I was just saying if we went down that road there is no way we release him without a contract already in place. I think Peyton is going to say thanks but no thanks to our offer.

[John Dee]

and I don't expect him too.

I was just saying if we went down that road there is no way we release him without a contract already in place. I think Peyton is going to say thanks but no thanks to our offer.

Yep... Arizona or Miami.. If DUDE can play,..

Which is the genesis of the entire issue.... CAN HE PLAY?

[GoColts8818]

Yep... Arizona or Miami.. If DUDE can play,..

Which is the genesis of the entire issue.... CAN HE PLAY?

No clue but I think it's going to take being on a field and having a team telling him it's over and that won't happen till camp at the earliest.

[Kirie89]

I want the Colts to succeed, with or without any one player.

I want the Colts to succeed, despite any one or a combination of several players going down to injury.

I want the Colts to have long-term success, not just in the upcoming season, or in the 5-year time frame, or even the 15-year time frame, but forever.

I want the Colts to build a sustainable management philosophy and team culture that will endure beyond owners, GMs, HCs, players.

I think we are in a unique situation to make this come about now with the current rebuild.

Very good points!

It seems that some will have PM back no matter the short-and long-term consequences for the franchise

[Nadine]

I'm to the point now where I don't even want Peyton back on this team next year. The biggest reason I say that is because I want us as a franchise to prove we are more than just one man. I want us to succeed beyond Peyton to SHUT all these ESPN analysts up when they continue to keep bashing the Colts as of late. I want us to start anew with Luck and have the money we save from not signing Peyton to go out and get very good players in FA to help turn this team around soon.

Your thoughts on my take on this?

I understand your frustration.

But, ESPN analysts will never shut up.............just like they will NEVER STOP SHOWING AND TALKING ABOUT HOW THE COLTS LOST TO THE SAINTS.

NOT EVER

ugh

I hope the Colts and Peyton work it out AND we revamp our team and kick everyones collective BUTT. In short, we do what none of them says we will or can do

Living well........is the best revenge

[DOOLEY]

I'm a Tennessee fan by birth and a colt fan by choice ( because of Peyton) and have been for many years. After watching Peyton on & off the field for both the Vols & Colts I bet what ever he does will be whats best for the Colts & the city of indianapolis and not whats best for Peyton. I know he loves Tennessee ( and always keeps giving back to the Vols ) and I know he loves Indianapolis.

I know when Peyton left the UNIVERSITY OF TENNESSEE it was a better place because he came thru it and i think Indianapolis will be to.

So any post that says no to Peyton is not right

If your a Colt fan or just football fan you know the Mannings are just good people

SO ENJOY WHAT YOU HAVE WHILE HE IS THERE BECAUSE YOU SURE WILL MISS HIM WHEN HE GONE

[ColtsBlueFL]

If we release him and we are going to resign him I would bet the house that new contract will be in place before we release him and him singing that contract will be a formality. Not unlike what the Colts did with Jeff Herrod years ago.

^ ^ ^ This ^ ^ ^

I am hoping this is a reason that there hasn't been a decision or announcement of it yet. It's a tricky issue and two sides serious at working it out will need to address all of the sticky spots. Especially as Peyton's health recovery is ongoing, and nobody knows how far he comes back to his old self and and how long it will take to get there. Working out the bonus, salary, and incentives isn't going to be an easy process. And it may not pan out at all, but I have a hope that at least they're trying.

[JoKeR]

I guarantee that the franchise will never have the sustained regular season success it has had since PM has been under center. History says this much. I think a lot of people are taking for granted the magic we have watched since 1998, and it will hit them at some point...it really hit me week 1 of 2011. It is hard to comprehend the amount of success and failure we as fans have encountered with PM, and that is something we will never have again. Luck may be great, but he will never give us what PM has. PM's style of play and what he meant to the franchise, city, and state combine to be a once in a lifetime--maybe multiple lifetimes--experience.

There's always a bigger fish. Do you really think Peyton Manning is the limit of how good a QB can be? Heck there's potential in Andrew Luck that he could end up being better than Manning. Manning is the alpha for the Indy Colts but he's not the omega.

But I want both PM and AL.

[Mameluc]

I Dont get it, why is people so darned obsessed with FA? haven't we seen enought to know FA does not mean good teams? redskins? eagles? jesus

and btw, the OP is so disrespectfull. You want to get rid of the guy who put Indy on a map because ESPN is disrespectfull to us? perhaps you should turn off the tv, cause Pm deserves better than a fan base that turns its back because of ESPN.

[The Fish]

There's always a bigger fish. Do you really think Peyton Manning is the limit of how good a QB can be? Heck there's potential in Andrew Luck that he could end up being better than Manning. Manning is the alpha for the Indy Colts but he's not the omega.

But I want both PM and AL.

I'm surprised to see you put it that way. I kinda had you on the "keep Manning and trade the pick" side of things. My gut feeling is that Luck is going to be very good at the start, and even better through the years. He has essentially the same pedigree as Peyton, plus a Stanford degree.

[WSO]

Peyton Manning is not the upper limit on how good a quarterback can be and I think thats the problem with some fans. . There will be better quarterbacks. You can argue some of the current QBs may surpass Manning when all is said and done.

[DOOLEY]

Peyton Manning is not the upper limit on how good a quarterback can be and I think thats the problem with some fans. . There will be better quarterbacks. You can argue some of the current QBs may surpass Manning when all is said and done.

I think he is the best that has been in the NFL up to this point , Don't know what the future hold.

Luck may be better time will tell , but his Stanford degree does not give him the football mind of Peyton

[Larry Horseman]

There's always a bigger fish. Do you really think Peyton Manning is the limit of how good a QB can be? Heck there's potential in Andrew Luck that he could end up being better than Manning. Manning is the alpha for the Indy Colts but he's not the omega.

But I want both PM and AL.

I want both too (although I don't think it is necessarily the most logical option). No, I'm not saying he is the limit. I'm saying that the way he plays combined with what he did for Indiana, the Colts, and the NFL (he helped bring in the current QB obsession) will never be replicated. I'm just saying he is a transcendent player. AL may be too, but it will be in a much different way than PM.

[BmoreColt]

I wonder if one of our renowned statistics gurus can give me the probability of lightning striking in the same place three times? Seriously, Elway, Peyton and apparently the next "version" of them, all drafted to the same franchise like that and all really being that good? I think statistically speaking the odds aren't very good. I think Luck will be good in the NFL, much like Big Ben who he reminds me of minus the cannon. I just don't see the greatness everyone else already sees...I think he is still an unproven commodity...

[Coffeedrinker]

Yes, they can have a document ready to go. However, the logistics will have to be met. Release must occur at or before March 8. New contract cannot be signed until after March 11.

Then the Colts are in a good position because free agency does not start until the 13th.