Could Peyton be the G.O.A.T ?

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 minutes ago, Synthetic said:

 

Absolutely not. The "GOAT" argument is subjective and really boils down to fan opinions. Of course Colts fans would pick Manning. It's no different than 49er fans picking Joe Montana. A Packers fan is going to tell you Brett Favre, and Saints fans will tell you Drew Brees etc etc. 

 

One could easily make an argument for Dan Marino being the GOAT, but is going to immediately be shot down by the fact he never won the big one. 

 

Another problem with the GOAT arguments is that they tend to gloss over previous eras with older quarterbacks when the game favored defense a lot more. This is why it's really unfair to judge a guy like Terry Bradshaw or Kenny Stabler just by looking at their TD/INT ratio numbers. Interceptions were far more common back then and by rule, QB's weren't allowed to throw the ball out of bounds like they've been doing since the mid 80's. (IMO Terry Bradshaw don't get enough credit these days for being a great QB). 

 

It's all subjective. But when it comes down to popular opinion, Tom Brady easily gets it now since he has 5 rings, and just getting to the Super Bowl 7 times is impressive in itself. I'll take Brady over Manning any day of the week. One of them throws the game winning TD to Tracy Porter, the other managed to actually overcome a horrible pick six and lead an amazing comeback in the SB. Brady also deserves credit for getting there without having All Pro, star studded teams. Those Colts teams were about as loaded as the 90's Bills with great play makers, it's not even fair to really compare them. 

 

Manning's pathetic playoff record speaks for itself. NINE times he went out in the first round, and count how many times those were with super loaded Colts teams with home field advantage. And in most of those playoff loses, his team couldn't even score 20 points. What's even worse, his team usually was the favorite in these games. Remember that SB where he only put 8 points on the board? Or 17 points against the Saints? 

 

Don't worry though...Aaron Rodgers is putting together a pretty pathetic playoff record too that could rival Manning's in the near future (it already is that bad). Might not surpass the 9 times career one and dones record Manning has, but Rodgers certainly has one thing over him, and that is getting blown out really bad in lost of those playoff losses. In defense of Manning, at least most of those playoff loses are close, whereas Rodgers are really bad blow outs. 

 

 

 

Let's not kid ourselves here; Manning wasn't a major factor on that Broncos team. He played the exact same role as Trent Dilfer with the 2000 Ravens. In the SB, Denver converted just one third down conversion all day. They posted the worst offensive stats of a SB winning team in history, and quite possibly would've lost if Cam Newton wasn't such a baby and rolled over and gave up in that game. 

 

Peyton was just there for the ride and so was Kubiak behind a defense built by John Fox and coached by Wade Philips that year. They would've won it all with Brock starting or any other QB with the way that defense played. 

 

Super Bowl wins are team accomplishments, not individual player accomplishments, and that 2015 Broncos team is a pretty fine example of that. 

He still won and most people don't look at it like that. I am not disagreeing with you but all I heard for years was how even Ben had more Rings than Peyton and Ben played like crap in SB40, in a game many people even say was the worst officiated game ever. Many though don't look at stuff like that. Brady also played terrible against the Rams but nobody remembers that either. I don't think Brady even had 150 Yards passing that game did he?

[Jules]

I don't know, geez. Been hearing this argument for so long now my head is ready to explode.

 

Every fanbase DOES have their own personal GOAT pick and every QB has his pluses and minuses in the GOAT discussion.

 

To me all it stems down to is all these QBs were all great.........they were simply great. Isn't that enough at times?

 

Now to reach "Michael Jordan is God" level in the NFL is a lot tougher and sadly it will go to Brady since he got that 5th ring and rings to most mean everything. 

[AZColt11]

1 hour ago, BOTT said:

Possibly.

 

 If I were able to chose the coaches, I still might take Elway and Marino over anyone else.  Marino could complete all these modern short routes in his sleep.

I would agree.  Love Marino, but to me Elway was as good throwing it and could run.  Elway was probably the best I've seen.  Should have been a Colt.

[chad72]

1 hour ago, DalTXColtsFan said:

Brady had 4 TDs against 0 picks in the SUPER BOWL against the #1 defense in the league on a day his team needed ALL 4 OF THEM to win. I don't care who your coach is, I don't care who the other players on your team are, that's UNHEARD OF.

 

And then in this latest game to keep his composure and lead his team on that epic, historic comeback.

 

OH - and he was the QB of a team that also won 3 other Super Bowls and countless playoff games.

 

Whose resume even comes close to that?

 

It is 4 TDs and 2 picks, to be accurate in the SB vs the Seahawks. The #1 defense was banged up from the 2013 version with both safeties Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor needing immediate off season work on their bodies. After the first pick by Jeremy Lane, Edelman takes slot CB Jeremy Lane's knees out and they pick on his replacement with Edelman catching the winning TD against his replacement too. Second pick was with Wagner picking off a pass to Gronk, and Seahawks cashed in with a TD to go up 24-14. Seahawks' Avril goes out concussed and the comeback from 14-24 happens.

 

I don't know what it is about the Pats. LeVeon Bell could hurt them, his ankle gets rolled up in the AFCCG. Tevin Coleman was hurting them, he gets rolled up in the SB. Heck, they had to pay Bradshaw back for the Indy SB, so when they were back in Indy, Ahmad Bradshaw went on IR after that Pats game vs the Colts when his ankle or foot got rolled up on. Recently, key players, in big games, get injured vs the Pats. Just saying. I guess they got tired of Steven Ridley concussed vs the Ravens in the 2012 AFCCG loss at home, Gronk getting taken out consistently, Wes Welker injuring Talib on a pick play in the 2013 AFCCG etc. that they decided to be the aggressors starting 2014.

 

Joe Montana had the insane stat of never throwing a pick in 4 SBs, chew on that!!! Maybe you got Brady confused with him. Having said that, Brady shines brightest when the lights shine bright and he never backed down from any tense situation. As a total of all categories, Brady is #1 in my book by virtue of that. I will just leave it at that.

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, Jules said:

I don't know, geez. Been hearing this argument for so long now my head is ready to explode.

 

Every fanbase DOES have their own personal GOAT pick and every QB has his pluses and minuses in the GOAT discussion.

 

To me all it stems down to is all these QBs were all great.........they were simply great. Isn't that enough at times?

 

Now to reach "Michael Jordan is God" level in the NFL is a lot tougher and sadly it will go to Brady since he got that 5th ring and rings to most mean everything. 

It's all subjective in both sports and from my years of living almost everyone goes by Rings when it comes to narrowing Top 5's, etc.. Not saying it is right but it is what it is. That is why People say Jordan and Brady are the GOAT. A lot of people like Bill Simmons and many other NBA analysts have Bill Russell 2nd and he wasn't near the player Wilt was IMO. But he has 11 Rings. Bradshaw has 4 Rings and is he even Top 10 LOL? That is actually debatable, look at his Average stats. He probably cracks the Top 10 because he has won 4 SB's but his Stats weren't eye popping at all.

[Jules]

I always thought Elway was overrated for all time great QBs and well that is where personal fan opinion often comes into play. We all like who we like.

 

Marino is the one without a ring I think a firm argument for GOAT can be made for but he won't get the chance since well he didn't get "da ring".

 

And in the NBA? Heehee.......I won't go there but there is a current player firmly in GOAT status.

[Jules]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It's all subjective in both sports and from my years of living almost everyone goes by Rings when it comes to narrowing Top 5's, etc.. Not saying it is right but it is what it is. That is why People say Jordan and Brady are the GOAT. A lot of people like Bill Simmons and many other NBA analysts have Bill Russell 2nd and he wasn't near the player Wilt was IMO. But he has 11 Rings. Bradshaw has 4 Rings and is he even Top 10 LOL? That is actually debatable, look at his Average stats. He probably cracks the Top 10 because he has won 4 SB's but his Stats weren't eye popping at all.

 

I often don't get why Kareem doesn't get more "GOAT arguments" from fans over Jordan. Pat Riley is the one I think who used to say Kareem was the best of all time too. 

 

I think the problem with the NFL is everyone has always screamed JOE MONTANA from the roof tops and now that Brady got the 5th, everyone is like "Oh cool, Brady is the GOAT now since he one upped Montana."

 

I just get so tired of it.......and yes it does come down to fan opinion too and who people lean towards as to who they like or what teams they like.

 

I love the Lakers so yeah I often am biased with guys on the Lakers too when it comes to the NBA.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

9 hours ago, coltsfeva said:

I recently saw Joe Montana and Tom Brady weigh in on 2 points about being the GOAT which I thought were valid:                   1.Using success alone for the QB GOAT is so subjective: the era, fellow players, defenses, coaches, competition, system, etc that allow for a QB to have success. That said, the individual talents: arm strength, vision, good decision making, scrambling ability, movement in the pocket, accuracy, football intelligence, etc are probably more objective measurements to assess a QB as an individual player.                       2. Tom Brady himself said he was the product of coaching and scheme.  Add to that, 2 of his rings were the product ( in part), to 2 terrible coaching decisions. I'm not saying Brady isn't great but I don't know if ANYONE definitively be the GOAT, when it comes to QBs. Do you ever wonder what Peyton would have done with Bellichick as his coach? He had a winning playoff record against Brady and won almost 5 times as many games as Brady, when his defenses were in the bottom half of the league. Give Brady his due, he is one of the greatest to ever play. But the same could be said for Montana, Elway. Marino, Otto Graham, Johnny U, Bart Star and Peyton. Maybe one day, we will see Lucks name mentioned. So despite the "hands down" comment from Gronkowski after the Super Bowl, and what many talking heads and fans believe, I'll agree with Brady and Montana and see the whole argument as subjective. All things being equal, I'd take Peyton over anybody, if I was starting a franchise.

 

The Brady Hoodie Era has had many controversies it will always be a team remembered for bending the rules & being rewarded with slaps on the wrist .

 

IMO they don't belong in the conversation there is no one in the post above that needed to cheat to win . 

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, Jules said:

 

I often don't get why Kareem doesn't get more "GOAT arguments" from fans over Jordan. Pat Riley is the one I think who used to say Kareem was the best of all time too. 

 

I think the problem with the NFL is everyone has always screamed JOE MONTANA from the roof tops and now that Brady got the 5th, everyone is like "Oh cool, Brady is the GOAT now since he one upped Montana."

 

I just get so tired of it.......and yes it does come down to fan opinion too and who people lean towards as to who they like or what teams they like.

 

I love the Lakers so yeah I often am biased with guys on the Lakers too when it comes to the NBA.

Yeah Kareem not only 6 Rings - same as Jordan but has 6 League MVP's which is 1 more than Jordan. He also is the all-time leading scorer and the guy gets no love from the media at all. That is a head scratcher. 

[Jules]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah Kareem not only 6 Rings - same as Jordan but has 6 League MVP's which is 1 more than Jordan. He also is the all-time leading scorer and the guy gets no love from the media at all. That is a head scratcher. 

 

I used to think a lack of media love for Kareem was also due to how heavily politically active he has been on the left. But, I will stop talking and we don't want to get political either.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Jules said:

 

I used to think a lack of media love for Kareem was also due to how heavily politically active he has been on the left. But, I will stop talking and we don't want to get political either.

I actually agree, he had some beliefs many didn't care for but I will stop there as well. When Magic got Drafted, Magic was on record saying Kareem was a different kind of cat. Kareem loosened up over the years because of Magic's outgoing personality over the team. I think a lot of people don't give Kareem the credit he deserves is also due to him playing with Magic. Most people think Magic was always 1a and Kareem 1b. After Magic won it all in his rookie season with Kareem out against Philly, I think that stuck with most fans throughout the 80's. 

[BOTT]

25 minutes ago, Jules said:

I always thought Elway was overrated for all time great QBs and well that is where personal fan opinion often comes into play. We all like who we like.

 

Marino is the one without a ring I think a firm argument for GOAT can be made for but he won't get the chance since well he didn't get "da ring".

 

And in the NBA? Heehee.......I won't go there but there is a current player firmly in GOAT status.

No there isn't 

[oldunclemark]

44 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah Kareem not only 6 Rings - same as Jordan but has 6 League MVP's which is 1 more than Jordan. He also is the all-time leading scorer and the guy gets no love from the media at all. That is a head scratcher. 

No its not.....

Jordan was 6-0 in finals and is the all-time playoff leading scorer..

 

I think kareem was voted 50 best all-time..that's hardly 'no love'

[oldunclemark]

45 minutes ago, Jules said:

 

I used to think a lack of media love for Kareem was also due to how heavily politically active he has been on the left. But, I will stop talking and we don't want to get political either.

I dont see a lack of media love for Kareem Abdul Jabber...first I've heard of it..

He's the most respected elder statesmen in al of sports..an absolute icon..almost  a Muhammad Ali level social icon.

 

The player who has been forgotten (understandably, since he died young) is Wilt Chamberlain who set unbreakable records and was one of the great all-around athletes of the 20th century

[Jules]

1 minute ago, oldunclemark said:

I dont see a lack of media love for Kareem Abdul Jabber...first I've heard of it..

He's the most respected elder statesmen in al of sports..an absolute icon..almost  a Muhammad Ali level social icon.

 

The player who has been forgotten (understandably, since he died young) is Wilt Chamberlain who set unbreakable records and was one of the great all-around athletes of the 20th century

 

I think Kareem can get ignored at times in the "best of all time" convo is all. But yeah most put him up there I do agree once you put it like that.

 

As for Wilt, yeah he gets WAY overly ignored but I think some are scared to talk about him at times too due to the fact that he slept with most of North America.

[oldunclemark]

23 minutes ago, Jules said:

 

I think Kareem can get ignored at times in the "best of all time" convo is all. But yeah most put him up there I do agree once you put it like that.

 

As for Wilt, yeah he gets WAY overly ignored but I think some are scared to talk about him at times too due to the fact that he slept with most of North America.

well, he said he did!

[oldunclemark]

10 hours ago, coltsfeva said:

I recently saw Joe Montana and Tom Brady weigh in on 2 points about being the GOAT which I thought were valid:                   1.Using success alone for the QB GOAT is so subjective: the era, fellow players, defenses, coaches, competition, system, etc that allow for a QB to have success. That said, the individual talents: arm strength, vision, good decision making, scrambling ability, movement in the pocket, accuracy, football intelligence, etc are probably more objective measurements to assess a QB as an individual player.                       2. Tom Brady himself said he was the product of coaching and scheme.  Add to that, 2 of his rings were the product ( in part), to 2 terrible coaching decisions. I'm not saying Brady isn't great but I don't know if ANYONE definitively be the GOAT, when it comes to QBs. Do you ever wonder what Peyton would have done with Bellichick as his coach? He had a winning playoff record against Brady and won almost 5 times as many games as Brady, when his defenses were in the bottom half of the league. Give Brady his due, he is one of the greatest to ever play. But the same could be said for Montana, Elway. Marino, Otto Graham, Johnny U, Bart Star and Peyton. Maybe one day, we will see Lucks name mentioned. So despite the "hands down" comment from Gronkowski after the Super Bowl, and what many talking heads and fans believe, I'll agree with Brady and Montana and see the whole argument as subjective. All things being equal, I'd take Peyton over anybody, if I was starting a franchise.

Peyton had the best QB season of anyone in NFL history.....55 TD passes 5,500 yards..

..and it later came out (we knew) that he had little feeling in his throwing hand all that year.

...he also the only player to win the Super Bowl as the starting QB of 2 different teams and the only QB to reach the Super Bowl as a starter for 4 different coaches...

In that respect, Peyton's success and longevity are unique

.....so I think a strong arguement can be made for him as the greatest QB in the history of the NFL

[Jules]

4 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

well, he said he did!

 

True, we all know how men like to brag and embellish. ;) 

[2006Coltsbestever]

40 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

No its not.....

Jordan was 6-0 in finals and is the all-time playoff leading scorer..

 

I think kareem was voted 50 best all-time..that's hardly 'no love'

Wasn't my point, Kareem never gets mentioned as a possible GOAT. It's either usually Jordan, LeBron, and sometimes but rarely Magic. Voted Top 50 , I would hope so, anyone brainless would put him on a list like that, hell he is Top 5.

[Jules]

I think Peyton honestly has a case to be GOAT or in the top small group at the top. But the problem is Brady boy just won ring 5 so everyone acts like it's over forever since he won the 5th with the big comeback over a stupid aazz Falcons team with a garbage D who is allergic to running the ball when up by 150 points.

 

If the Pats lose that SB, Brady is either not the GOAT, his legacy is tainted by losing a third SB and the GOAT convo is still up in the air for a small group. 

 

But, since the Pats do win and the Falcons have the IQs of house plants, Brady is the GOAT and it's over now and you might as well go shut the hell up forever since he just got ring 5 biottch.

 

The problem in sports is everyone is a victim of the moment and rings only. Even if Brady and the Pats DID lose to Atlanta, Brady is still an all time great QB. But, what bothers me is this fine fine paper thin line people have over everything.

 

And history also gets nostalgic over certain QBs even MORE as times goes on which we see with Joe Montana and we will see with Tom Brady. Future generations see "Super Bowl wins" and thats all they need to see to judge a QB. Da ringzzzzzz. History will have the winners and the chokers at times just based on all time game team wins and one and dones, SB losses and everything.

 

For the record, I do think Brady has a real case to be the best of all time or in the small top group obviously, but that fine line in the Super Bowl between winning or losing bothers me at times. Same with all the Patriots SB wins and how close they are. Brady was soooo close to losing ANY of the Super Bowl's he was in so in a way it can bother me deep down when it comes to screaming GOAT GOAT GOAT GOAT from the rooftops. And yes he was close to winning the few he lost too, but every single Pats SB win was done by A HAIR. 

 

But as Rod Stewart did sing "Some guys have all the luck."

[Jules]

10 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Wasn't my point, Kareem never gets mentioned as a possible GOAT. It's either usually Jordan, LeBron, and sometimes but rarely Magic. Voted Top 50 , I would hope so, anyone brainless would put him on a list like that, hell he is Top 5.

 

Wait I missed that. Kareem just being in the top 50? OMG. That would be bad. He is far far up there in the top all time group.

 

This all time ranking stuff just can be INSANE.

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 minutes ago, Jules said:

 

Wait I missed that. Kareem just being in the top 50? OMG. That would be bad. He is far far up there in the top all time group.

 

This all time ranking stuff just can be INSANE.

The league did a Top 50 of all-time years ago and he was on it but they didn't list the players in any order. I was just sayin anyone with a half a brain would've voted Kareem on that without a blink of an eye. I don't see how that is showing love to Kareem as Mark says . That was a no brainer. James Worthy made the Top 50 for cry out an loud.

[Jules]

Oh I see, sorry everyone. I think I helped make this a side NBA thread.

 

Carry on with NFL Goat mania.

[Colts_Fan12]

3 hours ago, Synthetic said:

 

Absolutely not. The "GOAT" argument is subjective and really boils down to fan opinions. Of course Colts fans would pick Manning. It's no different than 49er fans picking Joe Montana. A Packers fan is going to tell you Brett Favre, and Saints fans will tell you Drew Brees etc etc. 

 

One could easily make an argument for Dan Marino being the GOAT, but is going to immediately be shot down by the fact he never won the big one. 

 

Another problem with the GOAT arguments is that they tend to gloss over previous eras with older quarterbacks when the game favored defense a lot more. This is why it's really unfair to judge a guy like Terry Bradshaw or Kenny Stabler just by looking at their TD/INT ratio numbers. Interceptions were far more common back then and by rule, QB's weren't allowed to throw the ball out of bounds like they've been doing since the mid 80's. (IMO Terry Bradshaw don't get enough credit these days for being a great QB). 

 

It's all subjective. But when it comes down to popular opinion, Tom Brady easily gets it now since he has 5 rings, and just getting to the Super Bowl 7 times is impressive in itself. I'll take Brady over Manning any day of the week. One of them throws the game winning TD to Tracy Porter, the other managed to actually overcome a horrible pick six and lead an amazing comeback in the SB. Brady also deserves credit for getting there without having All Pro, star studded teams. Those Colts teams were about as loaded as the 90's Bills with great play makers, it's not even fair to really compare them. 

 

Manning's pathetic playoff record speaks for itself. NINE times he went out in the first round, and count how many times those were with super loaded Colts teams with home field advantage. And in most of those playoff loses, his team couldn't even score 20 points. What's even worse, his team usually was the favorite in these games. Remember that SB where he only put 8 points on the board? Or 17 points against the Saints? 

 

Don't worry though...Aaron Rodgers is putting together a pretty pathetic playoff record too that could rival Manning's in the near future (it already is that bad). Might not surpass the 9 times career one and dones record Manning has, but Rodgers certainly has one thing over him, and that is getting blown out really bad in lost of those playoff losses. In defense of Manning, at least most of those playoff loses are close, whereas Rodgers are really bad blow outs. 

 

 

 

Let's not kid ourselves here; Manning wasn't a major factor on that Broncos team. He played the exact same role as Trent Dilfer with the 2000 Ravens. In the SB, Denver converted just one third down conversion all day. They posted the worst offensive stats of a SB winning team in history, and quite possibly would've lost if Cam Newton wasn't such a baby and rolled over and gave up in that game. 

 

Peyton was just there for the ride and so was Kubiak behind a defense built by John Fox and coached by Wade Philips that year. They would've won it all with Brock starting or any other QB with the way that defense played. 

 

Super Bowl wins are team accomplishments, not individual player accomplishments, and that 2015 Broncos team is a pretty fine example of that. 

Super loaded colts teams? Wth are you talking about?

[Colts_Fan12]

2 hours ago, Jules said:

I always thought Elway was overrated for all time great QBs and well that is where personal fan opinion often comes into play. We all like who we like.

 

Marino is the one without a ring I think a firm argument for GOAT can be made for but he won't get the chance since well he didn't get "da ring".

 

And in the NBA? Heehee.......I won't go there but there is a current player firmly in GOAT status.

Damn right a current player is!!

[Jules]

14 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Super loaded colts teams? Wth are you talking about?

 

I think most considered our offenses at least to be pretty loaded for a while there. 

 

Honestly I hate to say it, but to many who are not Colts fans for years they did scream we had loaded teams. It's not necessarily the truth, but many did have this perception. What we think isn't always what fans of other teams think all the time.

 

Our offenses though for a while WERE good.......

 

Defensively not so great but IMO if we could redo some of the past I would have spent less high picks and money on offense and focused more on a balanced team.

[Colts_Fan12]

 

Just now, Jules said:

 

I think most considered our offenses at least to be pretty loaded for a while there. 

 

Honestly I hate to say it, but to many who are not Colts fans for years they did scream we had loaded teams. It's not necessarily the truth, but many did have this perception. What we think isn't always what fans of other teams think all the time.

 

Our offenses though for a while WERE good.......

 

Defensively not so great but IMO if we could redo some of the past I would have spent less high picks and money on offense and focused more on a balanced team.

Yeah I know what you mean we were no way loaded our D was constantly putrid and the Tampa D was useless 

[oldunclemark]

10 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Wasn't my point, Kareem never gets mentioned as a possible GOAT. It's either usually Jordan, LeBron, and sometimes but rarely Magic. Voted Top 50 , I would hope so, anyone brainless would put him on a list like that, hell he is Top 5.

He's Top-5 offensively..  He is NOT Top-5 overall if you count defense.

Magic arguably  isn't the athlete or the scorer that LBJ and Michael, especially (30 a game for his career..) were.. Offensively, they're close.

But Magic certainly isn't the defender... You and I would say that. He would say that

No one who saw them play would say that Magic was anywhere near the defensive player than LeBron and Michael are..

 

WE often judge players solely on offensive stats because you can get 'numbers' for your argeument.

Hockey does it to...Wayne Gretzky is the greatest offensive player ever.

Bobby Orr, a scoring champ, MVP and 'multiple Norris Trophy winner....was a better overall player. Orr was the only Norris winner and scoring champ in the same year.

Michael Jordan was defensive player of the year and MVP in the same season.

Wilt would have been in 1962 but there was not such defensive award.

Olojuwon was later

 

..to those who saw them both (and for defense, that's the key) it isn't close.

Magic was a defensive liability..He couldnt guard guards.

He was a decent defender and rebounder at the '4'.

Michael and LeBron could and did guard anyone.

That's why Magic isn't mentioned in their class. Defensively, he wasn't.

 

Edited May 17, 2017 by oldunclemark
spell

[Lucky Colts Fan]

In my very biased opinion, Peyton Manning is the 

 

 

[OffensivelyPC]

Manning is GOAT because I said so.

[colt18]

17 hours ago, Synthetic said:

 

Absolutely not. The "GOAT" argument is subjective and really boils down to fan opinions. Of course Colts fans would pick Manning. It's no different than 49er fans picking Joe Montana. A Packers fan is going to tell you Brett Favre, and Saints fans will tell you Drew Brees etc etc. 

 

One could easily make an argument for Dan Marino being the GOAT, but is going to immediately be shot down by the fact he never won the big one. 

 

Another problem with the GOAT arguments is that they tend to gloss over previous eras with older quarterbacks when the game favored defense a lot more. This is why it's really unfair to judge a guy like Terry Bradshaw or Kenny Stabler just by looking at their TD/INT ratio numbers. Interceptions were far more common back then and by rule, QB's weren't allowed to throw the ball out of bounds like they've been doing since the mid 80's. (IMO Terry Bradshaw don't get enough credit these days for being a great QB). 

 

It's all subjective. But when it comes down to popular opinion, Tom Brady easily gets it now since he has 5 rings, and just getting to the Super Bowl 7 times is impressive in itself. I'll take Brady over Manning any day of the week. One of them throws the game winning TD to Tracy Porter, the other managed to actually overcome a horrible pick six and lead an amazing comeback in the SB. Brady also deserves credit for getting there without having All Pro, star studded teams. Those Colts teams were about as loaded as the 90's Bills with great play makers, it's not even fair to really compare them. 

 

Manning's pathetic playoff record speaks for itself. NINE times he went out in the first round, and count how many times those were with super loaded Colts teams with home field advantage. And in most of those playoff loses, his team couldn't even score 20 points. What's even worse, his team usually was the favorite in these games. Remember that SB where he only put 8 points on the board? Or 17 points against the Saints? 

 

Don't worry though...Aaron Rodgers is putting together a pretty pathetic playoff record too that could rival Manning's in the near future (it already is that bad). Might not surpass the 9 times career one and dones record Manning has, but Rodgers certainly has one thing over him, and that is getting blown out really bad in lost of those playoff losses. In defense of Manning, at least most of those playoff loses are close, whereas Rodgers are really bad blow outs. 

 

 

 

Let's not kid ourselves here; Manning wasn't a major factor on that Broncos team. He played the exact same role as Trent Dilfer with the 2000 Ravens. In the SB, Denver converted just one third down conversion all day. They posted the worst offensive stats of a SB winning team in history, and quite possibly would've lost if Cam Newton wasn't such a baby and rolled over and gave up in that game. 

 

Peyton was just there for the ride and so was Kubiak behind a defense built by John Fox and coached by Wade Philips that year. They would've won it all with Brock starting or any other QB with the way that defense played. 

 

Super Bowl wins are team accomplishments, not individual player accomplishments, and that 2015 Broncos team is a pretty fine example of that. 

 

 

First off, LOL at Brady not having star studded, All-Pro teams. The guy has played his entire career under the GOAT HC and had a star studded defense in the first half of his career. Peyton has never had a defense like that until he went to the Broncos. Stop the foolishness. We aren't going to act like Brady hasn't had terrible games in the playoffs (um hello? he threw a game ending INT in the 06 playoffs...)

 

 

Second, blaming Peyton's playoff record on him is ignorant. W/L records are team records, not individual player records. Also, there have been several times where Peyton performed well enough to win but his defense lost the game. 

 

 

Last, that SB team would not have won without Peyton. He was pretty terrible that season, yet he still threw 2 TDs against the Pats in the AFCCG. He still made enough throws to help his team win. And as we all know, Brock sucks.

[colt18]

17 hours ago, Synthetic said:

 

Absolutely not. The "GOAT" argument is subjective and really boils down to fan opinions. Of course Colts fans would pick Manning. It's no different than 49er fans picking Joe Montana. A Packers fan is going to tell you Brett Favre, and Saints fans will tell you Drew Brees etc etc. 

 

One could easily make an argument for Dan Marino being the GOAT, but is going to immediately be shot down by the fact he never won the big one. 

 

Another problem with the GOAT arguments is that they tend to gloss over previous eras with older quarterbacks when the game favored defense a lot more. This is why it's really unfair to judge a guy like Terry Bradshaw or Kenny Stabler just by looking at their TD/INT ratio numbers. Interceptions were far more common back then and by rule, QB's weren't allowed to throw the ball out of bounds like they've been doing since the mid 80's. (IMO Terry Bradshaw don't get enough credit these days for being a great QB). 

 

It's all subjective. But when it comes down to popular opinion, Tom Brady easily gets it now since he has 5 rings, and just getting to the Super Bowl 7 times is impressive in itself. I'll take Brady over Manning any day of the week. One of them throws the game winning TD to Tracy Porter, the other managed to actually overcome a horrible pick six and lead an amazing comeback in the SB. Brady also deserves credit for getting there without having All Pro, star studded teams. Those Colts teams were about as loaded as the 90's Bills with great play makers, it's not even fair to really compare them. 

 

Manning's pathetic playoff record speaks for itself. NINE times he went out in the first round, and count how many times those were with super loaded Colts teams with home field advantage. And in most of those playoff loses, his team couldn't even score 20 points. What's even worse, his team usually was the favorite in these games. Remember that SB where he only put 8 points on the board? Or 17 points against the Saints? 

 

Don't worry though...Aaron Rodgers is putting together a pretty pathetic playoff record too that could rival Manning's in the near future (it already is that bad). Might not surpass the 9 times career one and dones record Manning has, but Rodgers certainly has one thing over him, and that is getting blown out really bad in lost of those playoff losses. In defense of Manning, at least most of those playoff loses are close, whereas Rodgers are really bad blow outs. 

 

 

 

Let's not kid ourselves here; Manning wasn't a major factor on that Broncos team. He played the exact same role as Trent Dilfer with the 2000 Ravens. In the SB, Denver converted just one third down conversion all day. They posted the worst offensive stats of a SB winning team in history, and quite possibly would've lost if Cam Newton wasn't such a baby and rolled over and gave up in that game. 

 

Peyton was just there for the ride and so was Kubiak behind a defense built by John Fox and coached by Wade Philips that year. They would've won it all with Brock starting or any other QB with the way that defense played. 

 

Super Bowl wins are team accomplishments, not individual player accomplishments, and that 2015 Broncos team is a pretty fine example of that. 

 

 

First off, LOL at Brady not having star studded, All-Pro teams. The guy has played his entire career under the GOAT HC and had a star studded defense in the first half of his career. Peyton has never had a defense like that until he went to the Broncos. Stop the foolishness. We aren't going to act like Brady hasn't had terrible games in the playoffs (um hello? he threw a game ending INT in the 06 playoffs...)

 

 

Second, blaming Peyton's playoff record on him is ignorant. W/L records are team records, not individual player records. Also, there have been several times where Peyton performed well enough to win but his defense lost the game. 

 

 

Last, that SB team would not have won without Peyton. He was pretty terrible that season, yet he still threw 2 TDs against the Pats in the AFCCG. He still made enough throws to help his team win. And as we all know, Brock sucks.

 

 

I agree that this whole GOAT discussion is subjective, but don't rewrite history.

[MackAttack]

On 5/16/2017 at 5:13 PM, Colts_Fan12 said:

Peyton don't need Bill that's why he's better then tom imo he took jim Caldwell to the SB and won one with Gary kubiack

Yep. Jim Caldwell man are you kidding me. Peyton could have brought the Browns to the super bowl if he played for them. They definitely would have made the playoffs every year. Most like 10 straight years of double digit wins. He's just the ultimate game manager and player.

[crazycolt1]

Jim Caldwell? The Browns? Gary Kubiak? John Fox? Trent Dilfer?

Would someone please kill this boring thread and put us out of our misery.

[Colts_Fan12]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Jim Caldwell? The Browns? Gary Kubiak? John Fox? Trent Dilfer?

Would someone please kill this boring thread and put us out of our misery.

Then don't * post in it Jesus Christ

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

22 hours ago, Jules said:

I think Peyton honestly has a case to be GOAT or in the top small group at the top. But the problem is Brady boy just won ring 5 so everyone acts like it's over forever since he won the 5th with the big comeback over a stupid aazz Falcons team with a garbage D who is allergic to running the ball when up by 150 points.

 

If the Pats lose that SB, Brady is either not the GOAT, his legacy is tainted by losing a third SB and the GOAT convo is still up in the air for a small group. 

 

But, since the Pats do win and the Falcons have the IQs of house plants, Brady is the GOAT and it's over now and you might as well go shut the hell up forever since he just got ring 5 biottch.

 

The problem in sports is everyone is a victim of the moment and rings only. Even if Brady and the Pats DID lose to Atlanta, Brady is still an all time great QB. But, what bothers me is this fine fine paper thin line people have over everything.

 

And history also gets nostalgic over certain QBs even MORE as times goes on which we see with Joe Montana and we will see with Tom Brady. Future generations see "Super Bowl wins" and thats all they need to see to judge a QB. Da ringzzzzzz. History will have the winners and the chokers at times just based on all time game team wins and one and dones, SB losses and everything.

 

For the record, I do think Brady has a real case to be the best of all time or in the small top group obviously, but that fine line in the Super Bowl between winning or losing bothers me at times. Same with all the Patriots SB wins and how close they are. Brady was soooo close to losing ANY of the Super Bowl's he was in so in a way it can bother me deep down when it comes to screaming GOAT GOAT GOAT GOAT from the rooftops. And yes he was close to winning the few he lost too, but every single Pats SB win was done by A HAIR. 

 

But as Rod Stewart did sing "Some guys have all the luck."

 

When it comes to the Patriots Luck is not the first word that pops into my mind ..

[Zap Rowsdower]

It's one of those arguments that will never have a definitive answer. While I have always said that a portion of Brady's greatness is due to the coaching and the system, I refuse to just label it as that because I as a Colts fan generally dislike all things Hoodie. Manning in my opinion not as a Colt but a QB would scare me more as a defensive coordinator. The guy had incredible football IQ and was perhaps the best at reading a defense. He would dissect teams with a surgical type precision and diagnosed plays quicker than anyone I personally have ever seen. Still, greatest of all time is just a preference really imo, you wouldn't be called an * for picking any of them. Montana's zero playoff ints is still my bar though. Record will probably never be broken in my lifetime. The only definitive G.O.A.T in any sport is MJ. 

[crazycolt1]

3 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Then don't * post in it Jesus Christ

Figures

[Colts_Fan12]

10 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Figures

Yeah figures here you are trying to ruin another topic. There is zero reason to be here complaining about a thread others are enjoying quit being an @** no one is forcing you to read it.

[crazycolt1]

5 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Yeah figures here you are trying to ruin another topic. There is zero reason to be here complaining about a thread others are enjoying quit being an butt no one is forcing you to read it.

Figures once again.

It's an age old thread that never has any legit answers because there are no legit answers.