Chuck Pagano will be made available to the media at 1:30 today.

[Jules]

 

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

8-8 is only better than 7-9 if you make the playoffs. Otherwise it gets you a worse draft spot and it's mediocrity at it's finest. I'd rather go 1-15 like the Browns did with Andrew Luck, because we know how good Andrew Luck is once we improve the team and we'd get that elite player and draft spot in 7 rounds to do it with. 8-8 and missing the playoffs is the worst of both worlds.

 

8-8 is like going on a date with the ugly person but you hear people say "he/she has an EXCELLENT personality."

[dgambill]

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

The rest of your post was a little too salty for me, but I agree with this.

 

A year ago, the decision was made to stick with these two guys. If anything would have changed Irsay's mind, I would think that he wouldn't have doubled down on his commitment to them a couple weeks ago. All I'm saying is that if we take Irsay at his word, then Grigson and Pagano aren't going anywhere right now.

 

As for the rest, I do think Colts fans are being a little bratty right now. Not defending this mediocrity of the last two seasons, and not saying that keeping Pagano is the right decision, but this team isn't spiraling apart, it isn't crumbling, Luck's prime isn't being sacrificed, etc. I want more than this, just like everyone else, but this isn't the pits that it's being made out to be. This is NOTHING like Al Davis' Raiders, who spent 14 years as a cellar dweller. Remember, they fired an 8-8 coach four years ago, and that didn't work out too well for them.

 

Again, not defending Pagano or the decision to keep him, if it were up to me, he'd be gone. But comparisons like that, and the general whiny state of the fanbase/media over the past few weeks, are cringe-worthy, IMO.

Your right...honestly it's the post holiday blues for me. I could step away. Yesterday I was fine with both coming back....I fully accepted it...but watching our performance and then chucks comments ticked me off. I'll get over it but man I hope some things change. I think Grigson is getting better as a GM and I hope Chuck changes some things going into next season and we see a new Colts in 2017.

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, Jules said:

 

 

8-8 is like going on a date with the ugly person but you hear people say "he/she has an EXCELLENT personality."

Or going on a date with a beautiful woman, then you decide to sleep with her one night and you learn the hard way she/he is a transgender.

[NewColtsFan]

21 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I call drafting two best TEs in the draft playing it safe. Instead of trusting your scouting to find talent later in the draft at a position where you can normally find value late or even indrafted you double down to make sure you get quality early. That's playing safe to me. he gutted the team because that's what he was brought in to do. That's not a risk that was a prerequisite of the job. He gave up a first rd pick to take the highest selected RB in the previous draft despite the warning signs because he he didn't trust the team to find help in free agency or find a back later in the draft. He took a guy that had a late draft plummet because it looked safe nobody would question taking a guy that had been projected to go around top 10 earlier but kept sliding not examine closely what the other teams were seeing and passing. To me he constitsntly played it safe bringing in guys to cap friendly deals in case they didn't work out...and constantly bringing ex eagle and raven guys early on. But he has made some better moves last couple years as he started to get more comfortable in his decision making. Bringing in Gore and Johnson showed he was willing to take a big swing...and being focused and holding to his plan of building the OL last offseason and trusting his draft process and not signing any big free agents meant to me he is growing. I think he is a vastly superior GM today then when he started. I just think he was cautious when building this team and not as confident in his skills and that slowed our progress. I'm not nearly as upset with him coming back as Pagano. I'll root for both and I'm not rooting for us to lose to get rid of them. I want them both to succeed but I've seen enough of Chuck to come to the conclusion I don't see him as a great football mind that will take this team to the next level...Ryan I think is growing and getting better. Just hope he sticks to his guns.

 

He traded for Trent because Trent at one time was a tremendous college running back.    It wasn't a shock that Cleveland drafted him that high.      He spent a one because he figured it was going to be a very low 1st because he thought it might get us to the Super Bowl.     He couldn't get Trent with a 2,  I'm sure other teams offered a two, so he had to offer a late one.  

 

The trade blew up.      I'm not defending the Warner draft pick.    I wanted either Hopkins who went to Houston or Nixon who went to Minnesota.     That draft blew up.    Warner is out of football.

 

Look,  I jumped off the Grigson bandwagon a year ago.    Too many misses in both the draft and free agency.

 

I was only responding to your claim that he looked scared from the start.    I think you took the bad look from his early press conferences where he was clearly uncomfortable and turned that into a job review.   

 

And you're answer here is to use all 5 years to respond..      Your comment that I responded to was Year One.

 

 

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

He traded for Trent because Trent at one time was a tremendous college running back.    It wasn't a shock that Cleveland drafted him that high.      He spent a one because he figured it was going to be a very low 1st because he thought it might get us to the Super Bowl.     He couldn't get Trent with a 2,  I'm sure other teams offered a two, so he had to offer a late one.  

 

The trade blew up.      I'm not defending the Warner draft pick.    I wanted either Hopkins who went to Houston or Nixon who went to Minnesota.     That draft blew up.    Warner is out of football.

 

Look,  I jumped off the Grigson bandwagon a year ago.    Too many misses in both the draft and free agency.

 

I was only responding to your claim that he looked scared from the start.    I think you took the bad look from his early press conferences where he was clearly uncomfortable and turned that into a job review.   

 

And you're answer here is to use all 5 years to respond..      Your comment that I responded to was Year One.

 

 

who is nixon? I remember Floyd, Rhodes, and Patterson.

[NewColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

8-8 is only better than 7-9 if you make the playoffs. Otherwise it gets you a worse draft spot and it's mediocrity at it's finest. I'd rather go 1-15 like the Browns did with Andrew Luck, because we know how good Andrew Luck is once we improve the team and we'd get that elite player and draft spot in 7 rounds to do it with. 8-8 and missing the playoffs is the worst of both worlds.

 

That's a fans position.

 

The front office doesn't think that.     The coaches don't think that.      The players don't think that.

 

That's what fans think.

 

Players were thrilled to win.     No player ever walks off the field thinking "Oh, crap!   We won.    Now we're going to pick a few spots later."      That doesn't happen.      Only fans think that way.

 

[FanFromtheWasteland]

2 minutes ago, Jules said:

 

 

8-8 is like going on a date with the ugly person but you hear people say "he/she has an EXCELLENT personality."

Or not knowing what you are hungry for and no matter what you eat your not satisfied

[NewColtsFan]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

who is nixon? I remember Floyd, Rhodes, and Patterson.

 

The big corner from Florida State.   Xavier Nixon.     6'1" and change.   210 pounds.    Runs fast.

 

We passed and Minnesota grabbed him.     He's a solid corner.    Not great.    But he'd have been great opposite Vonte.     I was NOT expecting Bjorn Werner.

 

Honestly,   Werner bothers me more than Trent.  

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

That's a fans position.

 

The front office doesn't think that.     The coaches don't think that.      The players don't think that.

 

That's what fans think.

 

Players were thrilled to win.     No player ever walks off the field thinking "Oh, crap!   We won.    Now we're going to pick a few spots later."      That doesn't happen.      Only fans think that way.

 

Absolutely, but it doesn't change my opinion. The fans and the players each think differently. No player would want to lose out.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

The big corner from Florida State.   Xavier Nixon.     6'1" and change.   210 pounds.    Runs fast.

 

We passed and Minnesota grabbed him.     He's a solid corner.    Not great.    But he'd have been great opposite Vonte.     I was NOT expecting Bjorn Werner.

 

Honestly,   Werner bothers me more than Trent.  

Ok, that name sounds familiar now. Was thinking 2013 draft 1st round.

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Ok, that name sounds familiar now. Was thinking 2013 draft 1st round.

 

I'm thinking you may be right.      Was his name Xavier Rhodes? 

 

I know his first name was Xavier.    I know he was from FSU.     I know he was big and fast.    I thought his last name was Nixon.     But maybe I'm mixing him up with another player?      That easily could be.    Too many things flying around my head.

 

EDIT NOTE:     You were right.   Xavier Rhodes.     My bad!

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

That's a fans position.

 

The front office doesn't think that.     The coaches don't think that.      The players don't think that.

 

That's what fans think.

 

Players were thrilled to win.     No player ever walks off the field thinking "Oh, crap!   We won.    Now we're going to pick a few spots later."      That doesn't happen.      Only fans think that way.

 

Actually as a fan I think that unless we blow a chance to pick#1 and Andrew Luck or Peyton is siting there. Whether we pick 15 or 12, who cares IMO. Both are high enough where we could land a Great player.

[FanFromtheWasteland]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

That's a fans position.

 

The front office doesn't think that.     The coaches don't think that.      The players don't think that.

 

That's what fans think.

 

Players were thrilled to win.     No player ever walks off the field thinking "Oh, crap!   We won.    Now we're going to pick a few spots later."      That doesn't happen.      Only fans think that way.

 

I would bet the front office sings a diffetent tune behind closed doors when the player they really want goes one pick ahead of them

[Superman]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

Your right...honestly it's the post holiday blues for me. I could step away. Yesterday I was fine with both coming back....I fully accepted it...but watching our performance and then chucks comments ticked me off. I'll get over it but man I hope some things change. I think Grigson is getting better as a GM and I hope Chuck changes some things going into next season and we see a new Colts in 2017.

 

I hope the same, but I'm not optimistic. 

 

On defense, the talent isn't there right now. I get that. If I'm being very generous, I'll give Pagano something of a pass there. But the schemes -- like letting AB toast you, rather than doing the Belichick Double -- don't inspire confidence.

 

On offense, this is not Chuck's expertise, but he keeps hiring guys who run this long developing passing offense. This is his preferred offense, and it's not right for this team. A good coach would mandate shorter passing concepts, and the schemes would change over the course of the season. What they did in the second Texans game this year robbed me of all optimism that they would ever run a more sensible passing offense.

 

It's not that Pagano is awful. He's probably slightly above average, being realistic. But that's not good enough, and no one should accept that. If the hope is that he'll get better as a strategist, I'm not sure what that hope would be based on, as he hasn't improved. Sure, he's made some good adjustments, but he always seems to be behind the curve; it took three dominant rushing performances from the Pats to finally change the defensive approach. They had a great gameplan against JJ Watt two years ago, but then they leave Von Miller 1-1 against a TE? 

 

So if you want a good coach -- heck, why not a great coach? -- then I'm not optimistic Pagano will ever be that. Maybe he can become a better coach, like Ron Rivera did, but if he won't make simple adjustments on offense and commit to stopping probably the best playmaker in the NFL on defense, then I don't know what to expect.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm thinking you may be right.      Was his name Xavier Rhodes? 

 

I know his first name was Xavier.    I know he was from FSU.     I know he was big and fast.    I thought his last name was Nixon.     But maybe I'm mixing him up with another player?      That easily could be.    Too many things flying around my head.

 

Xavier Nixon is a real player, but yes, Xavier rhodes was the 23rd overall pick in the 2013 NFL Draft.

[Coltsman1788]

25 minutes ago, Jules said:

 

I am kinda amazed at the mentality lately of "Well 8-8 is better then 7-9". We just about went 7-9!!!!!!! It took a comeback at home and a game winning drive to even get to 8-8. This IS NOT a good team. I am sorry but yes I am spoiled and yes I remember the old days when myself and other Colts fans on forums in say 2006 to 2009 would even LAUGH at the idea of anything less then going 12-4. We used to go nuts on playoff games we lost and why but then again we can't even do that now.  And looking back at all this it hit me this season that those days are long gone and I do accept that to some degree now since times change. Polian/Manning/Dungy were winners and we were blessed. What we have to now do is become used to being average and just hoping we can win the division again like Bengals fans.

 

Of course yes I am picky as hell too, I am a princess if so be it. But, being a fan of this team if you have been for a long time........a lot of us got SPOILED and I can't say you can really blame us all either.

 

Many of us including me have had to adjust our mindset to the new Colts. We are just another team now. In a way I accept this now. But, I still have a tough time imagining a full offseason of "going 8-8 is cool" talk when our franchise QB only missed one game all season long.

 

Yes!  I love it when you post Jules...such emotional honesty.  You are one of my faves.

 

The mediocrity of this front office, team and coaching staff is causing many Colts fans to settle for less.  This regime just wants us all to continue to put on the ear muffs and blinders and watch our Colts keep grinding away to nowhere.   We indulge ourselves on the stats & performances of individual players to numb the pain of yet another average season by the TEAM.   We used to expect to win Super Bowls...now we would be content  to just win the AFC South and make the playoffs again.  We used to relish beating the Patriots and Steelers. Now we can not manage to even be competitive with them on the grid iron.   Beating teams like Jacksonville was expected by our players.  Now they run around like they just won the friggin Super Bowl pumping number 1 fingers in the air.  It's crazy how much things have changed.  I wish something would be done about it.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Actually as a fan I think that unless we blow a chance to pick#1 and Andrew Luck or Peyton is siting there. Whether we pick 15 or 12, who cares IMO. Both are enough where we could land a Great player.

Not true. At 12, a top 8-10 pick may fall because of how teams value players and positional needs. A top 8-10 players isn't likely to fall to 15. That's when you get to the next tier.

[jshipp23]

They are both gone...Grigson is gonna be fired and new GM will can Pagano so irsay doesn't have to..

[dgambill]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

He traded for Trent because Trent at one time was a tremendous college running back.    It wasn't a shock that Cleveland drafted him that high.      He spent a one because he figured it was going to be a very low 1st because he thought it might get us to the Super Bowl.     He couldn't get Trent with a 2,  I'm sure other teams offered a two, so he had to offer a late one.  

 

The trade blew up.      I'm not defending the Warner draft pick.    I wanted either Hopkins who went to Houston or Nixon who went to Minnesota.     That draft blew up.    Warner is out of football.

 

Look,  I jumped off the Grigson bandwagon a year ago.    Too many misses in both the draft and free agency.

 

I was only responding to your claim that he looked scared from the start.    I think you took the bad look from his early press conferences where he was clearly uncomfortable and turned that into a job review.   

 

And you're answer here is to use all 5 years to respond..      Your comment that I responded to was Year One.

 

 

I never saw Ryan's press conference. I was upset with Chucks today. Ryan I think has gotten better as a GM. I think he played it safe early on but has really settled into trusting his ability and doing a better job identifying talent. I think we are mixing Ryan and Chuck somehow together. I'm just not happy with Chucks answers on why we are an 8-8 team. I think we have plenty of talent especially offensively to win our division. I also think Chuck who is suppose to be a defensive coach has some say in the guys we bring in and not very happy with the progress this defense has made.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, jshipp23 said:

They are both gone...Grigson is gonna be fired and new GM will can Pagano so irsay doesn't have to..

I hope you're right.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Not true. At 12, a top 8-10 pick may fall because of how teams value players and positional needs. A top 8-10 players isn't likely to fall to 15. That's when you get to the next tier.

We got Kelly at 17 and that was a solid Draft pick. The Draft is a crapshoot to me unless you have a Franchise QB coming out and you pick 1st.

[krunk]

7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The big corner from Florida State.   Xavier Nixon.     6'1" and change.   210 pounds.    Runs fast.

 

We passed and Minnesota grabbed him.     He's a solid corner.    Not great.    But he'd have been great opposite Vonte.     I was NOT expecting Bjorn Werner.

 

Honestly,   Werner bothers me more than Trent.  

You mean Xavier Rhodes.  There was no nixon

[dgambill]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I hope the same, but I'm not optimistic. 

 

On defense, the talent isn't there right now. I get that. If I'm being very generous, I'll give Pagano something of a pass there. But the schemes -- like letting AB toast you, rather than doing the Belichick Double -- don't inspire confidence.

 

On offense, this is not Chuck's expertise, but he keeps hiring guys who run this long developing passing offense. This is his preferred offense, and it's not right for this team. A good coach would mandate shorter passing concepts, and the schemes would change over the course of the season. What they did in the second Texans game this year robbed me of all optimism that they would ever run a more sensible passing offense.

 

It's not that Pagano is awful. He's probably slightly above average, being realistic. But that's not good enough, and no one should accept that. If the hope is that he'll get better as a strategist, I'm not sure what that hope would be based on, as he hasn't improved. Sure, he's made some good adjustments, but he always seems to be behind the curve; it took three dominant rushing performances from the Pats to finally change the defensive approach. They had a great gameplan against JJ Watt two years ago, but then they leave Von Miller 1-1 against a TE? 

 

So if you want a good coach -- heck, why not a great coach? -- then I'm not optimistic Pagano will ever be that. Maybe he can become a better coach, like Ron Rivera did, but if he won't make simple adjustments on offense and commit to stopping probably the best playmaker in the NFL on defense, then I don't know what to expect.

Perfect accessment.

[SaturdayAllDay]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

8-8 is only better than 7-9 if you make the playoffs. Otherwise it gets you a worse draft spot and it's mediocrity at it's finest. I'd rather go 1-15 like the Browns did with Andrew Luck, because we know how good Andrew Luck is once we improve the team and we'd get that elite player and draft spot in 7 rounds to do it with. 8-8 and missing the playoffs is the worst of both worlds.

I seriously don't get this "tank for better picks" attitude. Going 1-15 as you'd like would most likely do very little for this team. Having the first overall pick does not guarantee success. You look at Teams like Cleveland and Jacksonville,  who have drafted high for years now. Why aren't they perennial super bowl Champs if they draft high so much? 

New England, green bay and Pittsburgh haven't picked in the top 10 in years, yet continue to be successful. 

What we need (and what we have needed for the past 5 yrs) is better coaching, and better scouting (which seems to be starting to go in the right direction, although it still needs work). 

 

We have a ton of young players on our team from the last few drafts, most of which have been thrown into starting positions whether they are ready or not. Confidence plays a big part in the development of these young players. I'd rather give them some positives to cling on to then run the risk of stifling their development.

8-8 isn't the end goal, and it's not something to celebrate as a fan. Believe me, I'm not happy. But to want your team to give up, seemingly before they even play 1 game (which would be the only way we'd go 1-15) does nothing but breed a losing culture,  which is a heck of a lot worse then the "culture of mediocrity" I see being thrown around here. 

[NewColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Not true. At 12, a top 8-10 pick may fall because of how teams value players and positional needs. A top 8-10 players isn't likely to fall to 15. That's when you get to the next tier.

 

That's only true if you think all 32 teams see the top 32 players the same way.        They don't.

 

Not even the top 16.     They don't all agree on that.

 

Not even the top-10.      Different teams see the same thing differently.     It's the ultimate beauty contest.   

 

Sometimes you'll get a lot of agreement on the top-5,  but it has to be a special draft.    Even at the top there's more disagreement than fans realize.

 

[DougDew]

21 minutes ago, krunk said:

1. Mike Chappell 

    

   ✔@mchappell51

   Pagano: Is talent better than 8-8 record? "great question. interesting question.'

   12:59 PM - 2 Jan 2017

   •  
   •  
   •  
      1111 Retweets
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      2121 likes

    

    
2.  

I like Chap, but is his attempt to regenerate the soap opera stuff between Grigson and Pagano?

 

Is this where the storyline is heading again?  Please no.

 

 

[ponyboy]

11 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The trade blew up.      I'm not defending the Warner draft pick.    I wanted either Hopkins who went to Houston or Nixon who went to Minnesota.     That draft blew up.    Warner is out of football.

 

 

 

I think you're confusing Nixon with Al Franken. 

[jshipp23]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We got Kelly at 17 and that was a solid Draft pick. The Draft is a crapshoot to me unless you have a Franchise QB coming out and you pick 1st.

Those 3 spots could cost us Fournette, Cook, and Peppers..Significant drop off after those guys..

[Yoshinator]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We got Kelly at 17 and that was a solid Draft pick. The Draft is a crapshoot to me unless you have a Franchise QB coming out and you pick 1st.

Kelly is an exception because he was a C and centers don't get picked top 10. He was a safe solid pick that has outperformed his draft position, but not at a premium position. You aren't a GM, that's why the draft is a crapshoot to you. When you study players, and the tiers between positions, it can become the difference between one or two draft position spots. That's why there are so many trades.

[Superman]

Just now, DougDew said:

I like Chap, but is his attempt to regenerate the soap opera stuff between Grigson and Pagano?

 

Is this where the storyline is heading again?  Please no.

 

No, he's just picking at Pagano for calling the question a good question, then not answering it at all. That's a legitimate gripe, by the way. Pagano didn't even attempt to answer that one.

[YourTearinApartLisa!]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

The rest of your post was a little too salty for me, but I agree with this.

 

A year ago, the decision was made to stick with these two guys. If anything would have changed Irsay's mind, I would think that he wouldn't have doubled down on his commitment to them a couple weeks ago. All I'm saying is that if we take Irsay at his word, then Grigson and Pagano aren't going anywhere right now.

 

As for the rest, I do think Colts fans are being a little bratty right now. Not defending this mediocrity of the last two seasons, and not saying that keeping Pagano is the right decision, but this team isn't spiraling apart, it isn't crumbling, Luck's prime isn't being sacrificed, etc. I want more than this, just like everyone else, but this isn't the pits that it's being made out to be. This is NOTHING like Al Davis' Raiders, who spent 14 years as a cellar dweller. Remember, they fired an 8-8 coach four years ago, and that didn't work out too well for them.

 

Again, not defending Pagano or the decision to keep him, if it were up to me, he'd be gone. But comparisons like that, and the general whiny state of the fanbase/media over the past few weeks, are cringe-worthy, IMO.

My question is how long is Luck going to last? Honestly I don't see him having a long career with the abuse he takes. We may have a 12 year window. As for the Raiders I'm not saying that's where we are.  Im not that delusional. Im saying that's who he reminds me of with his decision making. 

[runthepost]

44 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

We don't have much talent.     It's been our problem from Day One.

 

I've never said Pagano is a great coach.     I've said I'm doubt we'd win a Super Bowl with him.    But I think he's a good coach.     He gets his guys to play hard.     Most games,  really hard.     

 

But this isn't a talented roster.     It's never been.    It's Andrew Luck and an average to below average roster.   This fanbase got spoiled with 11-5 and advancing in the playoffs for 3 straight years.      So, 8-8 feels like losing.

 

We're building on the fly.     We're just beginning to get the offense right.     We're just now going to start building a defense.    In Year 6.      Chuck has never had much talent and yet we win.      He may not be a great coach,  but I think he's a good coach.     Personally,   I'd give him one more year and see what happens....

 

Great post. It's just been frustrating 

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We got Kelly at 17 and that was a solid Draft pick. The Draft is a crapshoot to me unless you have a Franchise QB coming out and you pick 1st.

 

Forgive me for doing this....   but since there's so much information flying around I just wanted to clarify....

 

I believe we got Kelly at 18 and not 17.      Sorry.    Not trying to be THAT GUY.     Especially on a day like today.   Just wanted to make sure we were all on the same page.

 

I'll go away now!       

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Yes!...I love it when you post Jules...such emotional honesty.  

 

The mediocrity of this front office, team and coaching staff is causing many Colts fans to settle for less.  This regime just wants us all to continue to put on the ear muffs and blinders and watch our Colts keep grinding away to nowhere.   We indulge ourselves on the stats & performances of individual players to numb the pain of yet another average season by the TEAM.   We used to want to win Super Bowls...now we would be content  to just win the AFC South and make the playoffs again.  We used to relish beating the Patriots and Steelers. Now we can not manage to even be competitive with them on the grid iron.   Beating teams like Jacksonville was expected by our players.  Now they run around like they just won the friggin Super Bowl pumping number 1 fingers in the air.  It's crazy how much things have changed.  I wish something would be done about it.

There isn't one fan settling for less, at least I am not. I am being realistic as of now to know winning the Division and maybe winning 10 or 11 games is the best we can do until we build a better a Defense. We don't have the personnel that we had in the Peyton era. Some people think some of us fans are happy with 8-8 because we defend certain Coaches, Players, etc.. It's plain and simple, we don't have the Defense to be 12-4 and challenge for the Ring every season like we used too. Our Defense back then wasn't Great but we had Great Pass Rushers and a Defense that could get stops in a lot of big games, we don't have that now. How tough is that too understand for some people?

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

No, he's just picking at Pagano for calling the question a good question, then not answering it at all. That's a legitimate gripe, by the way. Pagano didn't even attempt to answer that one.

 

I think the Non-answer is the answer.

 

What could Pagano say?      He's painted into a corner and he doesn't want to throw either Grigson or his players under the bus.      Better to say nothing and take the heat and move on....

 

[Coltsman1788]

I'm stepping away for a bit guys/gals. I'm getting a head ache from staring at my computer screen so much today.  I will check back later today to get updated on the latest developments if any.  Peace to Colts Nation and go Colts!

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

I seriously don't get this "tank for better picks" attitude. Going 1-15 as you'd like would most likely do very little for this team. Having the first overall pick does not guarantee success. You look at Teams like Cleveland and Jacksonville,  who have drafted high for years now. Why aren't they perennial super bowl Champs if they draft high so much? 

New England, green bay and Pittsburgh haven't picked in the top 10 in years, yet continue to be successful. 

What we need (and what we have needed for the past 5 yrs) is better coaching, and better scouting (which seems to be starting to go in the right direction, although it still needs work). 

 

We have a ton of young players on our team from the last few drafts, most of which have been thrown into starting positions whether they are ready or not. Confidence plays a big part in the development of these young players. I'd rather give them some positives to cling on to then run the risk of stifling their development.

8-8 isn't the end goal, and it's not something to celebrate as a fan. Believe me, I'm not happy. But to want your team to give up, seemingly before they even play 1 game (which would be the only way we'd go 1-15) does nothing but breed a losing culture,  which is a heck of a lot worse then the "culture of mediocrity" I see being thrown around here. 

First, let me shut down the Cleveland and Jax myth. They aren't good, despite the high draft picks, because they have no franchise qb. Without that, they will never get far. New England, Green Bay, and Pitt do all draft well and all have franchise QBs, but the rest of their team is and was also much better than ours currently is. If we magically gave the Colts a 1-15 record at random and the 1st overall pick, we'd easily be a better team than Jax and Cleveland next year because of our franchise QB. That's why the Raiders were a possible SB team after 3 seasons of high draft picks. It didn't happen at random, it was because Derek Carr became Elite.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Forgive me for doing this....   but since there's so much information flying around I just wanted to clarify....

 

I believe we got Kelly at 18 and not 17.      Sorry.    Not trying to be THAT GUY.     Especially on a day like today.   Just wanted to make sure we were all on the same page.

 

I'll go away now!       

It was 18, I typo'd but you guys get my point.

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, YourTearinApartLisa! said:

My question is how long is Luck going to last? Honestly I don't see him having a long career with the abuse he takes. We may have a 12 year window. As for the Raiders I'm not saying that's where we are.  Im not that delusional. Im saying that's who he reminds me of with his decision making. 

 

I think Irsay deserves more credit than he gets lately. His decision to keep Grigson and Pagano was at least defensible. People are comparing the Colts to the Bills, who haven't made the playoffs in 23 years; the Niners, who will have 4 different head coaches in four seasons, and who put Alex Smith through 5 OCs in 6 years(?); and the Raiders, who missed the playoffs 14 years in a row. There's really no comparison. 

 

As for Luck, I get the angst. But my problem is with the scheme, which is easily fixable. Honestly, my biggest issue with this staff is the offense they run, which is ironic because Luck is so productive, but he also hold the ball longer than anyone else, which is part of the reason he gets so much pressure and takes so many hits. This needs to change, and that's the biggest reason I'm ready for Pagano to leave. Second biggest, he's not a good strategist; and even though that can improve, theoretically, it's not likely to happen at this point. 

[DougDew]

13 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

No, he's just picking at Pagano for calling the question a good question, then not answering it at all. That's a legitimate gripe, by the way. Pagano didn't even attempt to answer that one.

I was waiting for Pagano to quote Parcell's and say "we are what we are"  "talent wise and coaching wise"  "how can we argue with that"

 

Instead, he stumbled around a bit, but I'm sure its tough behind the podium.

 

BTW, my overall feeling is that he is not totally confident heading into the meeting with Irsay, despite having just signed a contract last year.