The main issue

[Colts_Fan12]

1 hour ago, 21isSuperman said:

With regards to the first part, I don't see the problem.  Why fight to go 7-9 (that's assuming we can even go .500 the rest of the season) and miss the playoffs and draft 15th overall when instead you can give the younger guys some playing time to develop, and draft in the top 10?  Obviously, no coaching staff is going to throw the towel in on the season this early and get themselves fired, but you can definitely see the benefits as a fan.  A bad season could give this team the change in coaching staff, and possibly management, that it needs to go to the next level.

 

Regarding Hue Jackson, I think if he were coaching in Indy, the Colts would be better than what they are now.  0-4 in Cleveland isn't really something to hold against Hue, it's more the norm for Cleveland.

I get what your saying 21 draft position makes a big difference and it's worth it to me. Like I said in another thread if we were to get the 1st overall pick we can more then likely trade out of it a couple spots to one of the teams with no QB.  Cause you know they will want the top QB so we can still get a great pick plus the future 1sts. More then likely could still get Garrett or a top LT 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, jbaron04 said:

Lol, young guy or old we not gonna be good bro, so we have to try to win while letting guys play and see of we have players 

 

1 hour ago, jbaron04 said:

Why y'all keep saying tank we just saying play the young guys can't hurt more than what reitz and mathis production is so far

 

 

It's Week 4.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, 21isSuperman said:

So let's avoid drafting in the 20s and let's try to get a real game changer with a high pick in the draft.

 

...

 

So this isn't "let's lose so the coaches get fired", it's "let's lose because that's what I think is best for the long term success of this team".

 

In other words, let's tank. 

 

No, thank you.

 

1 hour ago, 21isSuperman said:

No, I don't want the team to suck so the staff we/I don't like gets fired.  I want this team to have a sustainable, winning future and I don't think this coaching staff or GM can make it happen.  I think a bad season this year could mean:

1) an infusion of good, young talent from a good draft position

2) a change in coaching staff

3) a change in management

4) a lot of the younger guys get more playing time to develop

5) potentially trading away older players to get something (even 6th or 7th round picks) in return instead of just cutting them this upcoming offseason

 

I don't see how what you described is different than the bolded.

 

Also, none of this is happening unless Irsay gets rid of Pagano like right now. And #5 isn't happening at all because the NFL isn't MLB and teams don't trade draft picks for castoff players. The Colts don't have anyone worthy of late round draft picks that they should be getting rid of. If you think teams are eager to trade for D'Qwell Jackson, Robert Mathis, Mike Adams, Art Jones, whoever, then you're wrong. 

 

Quote

Hue Jackson in Indy > Chuck Pagano in Indy, regardless of ownership.  If Hue was able to do what he did with the 2011 Raiders, and how he made Andy Dalton play like an MVP candidate last year, I think he'd be able to do some great things with Andrew Luck.  Hue doesn't seem to be as coddling a coach as Pagano seems to be

 

I think that's a stretch, but there's no way to say definitively. I'll just say that 0-4 isn't helping your case.

 

Quote

Again, it's similar to how fans - legit fans to want to see the Colts win every game every year - wanted the Colts to lose games in 2011 so we could get Luck and have a better future.

 

And again, no thank you. Just like I said in 2011, just like I've said multiple times since then. Even when my team sucks and I think the staff should be fired -- like I did in 2011 -- I don't root for my team to lose. 

[Smoke317]

I'm not for throwing this season away.  I see a team that that if coached properly and a few tweaks are made can make the playoffs and make some noise "this year." 

[Colts_Fan12]

6 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

I'm not for throwing this season away.  I see a team that that if coached properly and a few tweaks are made can make the playoffs and make some noise "this year." 

Then you are drunk or high as a kite 

[GoColts8818]

2 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

With regards to the first part, I don't see the problem.  Why fight to go 7-9 (that's assuming we can even go .500 the rest of the season) and miss the playoffs and draft 15th overall when instead you can give the younger guys some playing time to develop, and draft in the top 10?  Obviously, no coaching staff is going to throw the towel in on the season this early and get themselves fired, but you can definitely see the benefits as a fan.  A bad season could give this team the change in coaching staff, and possibly management, that it needs to go to the next level.

 

Regarding Hue Jackson, I think if he were coaching in Indy, the Colts would be better than what they are now.  0-4 in Cleveland isn't really something to hold against Hue, it's more the norm for Cleveland.

Because players and coaches are going to lose their jobs if this team finishes something like 4-12.  They aren't going to go along with the tanking idea.  

[Smoke317]

2 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Then you are drunk or high as a kite 

Not much of a drinker but my screen name is smoke.... but that has nothing to do with my perception. Lol. I think if some tweaks and adjustments are made this team would look and play differently than what we've seen. Maybe we just don't have the coaching staff to make those needed tweaks and adjustments...

[Colts_Fan12]

23 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Not much of a drinker but my screen name is smoke.... but that has nothing to do with my perception. Lol. I think if some tweaks and adjustments are made this team would look and play differently than what we've seen. Maybe we just don't have the coaching staff to make those needed tweaks and adjustments...

This defense is trash 

[Smoke317]

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

This defense is trash 

I think they're trash because of a lack of pass rush mostly. In today's pass happy NFL you've got to be able to affect the quarterback. But even without the pass rush, if our offense was living up to its potential they'd become serviceable and improve while we would still be winning. Give Belichick this same team and a full offseason and you'd see Green and Geathers developing into playmakers along with some guys on our Dline.  Maybe even some of our linebackers too. So in essence our coaching is trash.  

[RockThatBlue]

Pass rush is the worst I've seen it in modern times. Just awful. 

 

I wish they would just activate McGill. Hes shown he can get to the QB, so why not give it a shot?

[superrep1967]

9 hours ago, IinD said:

Bad roster management with horrible coaching.

 

We're either to young in spots or ancient. A very unhealthy mix.

 

I'm honestly fully off the Chuck bandwagon. Even though we're bad, we're undisciplinedlike never before. Even when we lost on the past we weren't penalty machines.

 

I don't like this Colts team how it's constructed or managed/coached.

 

I feel the right staff could get more from these players.

There is no doubt about it. Bring in Cowher of Harbaugh and you'll see a huge difference in this team's play. 

[superrep1967]

5 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Pass rush is the worst I've seen it in modern times. Just awful. 

 

I wish they would just activate McGill. Hes shown he can get to the QB, so why not give it a shot?

Yeah really what are we going to do lose. Were going to lose anyway. Was Anderson out there yesterday I didn't see him. By the way d-line played terrible to. 

[superrep1967]

6 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

Not much of a drinker but my screen name is smoke.... but that has nothing to do with my perception. Lol. I think if some tweaks and adjustments are made this team would look and play differently than what we've seen. Maybe we just don't have the coaching staff to make those needed tweaks and adjustments...

We don't Pagano just isn't very smart and is not head coach material.  

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

People we don't need for the players to tank this season Grigson & Pagano are proving weekly there philosophy is flawed & it is leading the Colts to a tanked season . The dropped passes & penalties are on the players & IMO a direct reflection on the coaching staff there supposed to get the most out of these guys but there getting less I can't act like I know better I'm just a bricklayer but as a fan the product on the field is lacking on both sides of the ball , Its hard to believe that there is a possibility that this year could be worse than last year , Its mind numbing to watch this team crash & burn its  unfrigging believable .

[Coffeedrinker]

The pass rush is bad but the whole defense is bad.  everyone was talking in the offseason about how Monochino (or however it's spelled) was saying the right things and they liked his defense... we are learning now that it was just all talk.

 

As the DC of my team, I tell my kids that it is my job to put them in a position to make plays, it is their job to make the play when they are there.  On the Colts, most of the players do a pretty good job of making the play when they are there but there are just too many times when the offense fools the D and there is no one around to make plays.

 

Now, it good be that players aren't listening to the DC and they are abandoning their assignments but I don't think so.

 

To fix the pass rush, if I were the Colts I would  switch to a 4-3 and use a combination of stunts and LB blitzes to overload a side to get pressure.  This would improve and already pretty good run D, get Mathis off the field more and hopefully, he would be more effective on limited snaps.  Also I think with Anderson and Langford are both good at pushing the pocket, shedding and getting pressure that way and I think they would be better doing that on the edges.

[deedub75]

12 hours ago, jbaron04 said:

Let's talk about the main issue we keep over looking. Y'all talking about cro and Melvin guys off the street we need to talk about Mathis and the pass rush. You know the pass rush is bad when tour edge setting player Walden is the leader in sacks. Mathis as I knew last yr is done he will be lucky if he gets 3 sacks this yr. I don't think we got pressure on any qb this yr so far. I think it's time to let maggit and the other young guys play and get better for next season 

 

The roster, as well as the coaches, have been turned over almost every year for past 5 years.  A good foundation was never laid.  The early success hurt this team for the future.  We got low draft picks and I think Grigson got complacent because of the early winning.  Now had we won a SB people wouldn't be complaining as much.  

[lester]

10 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I thought Andrew could've ran the frunkin football as well.

 

Andrew Luck appears apprehensive when its time to run. I am of the opinion that he has been instructed, repeatedly, to not allow himself to be in a position to take a hit. It was a hit on a clutch scramble, after all, that put him out for the year last year.

Its my opinion that management/coaching has told him, in no uncertain terms, that he is NOT to go after the crucial run. This has been said publicly, it was mentioned in his recent expose article, and you can see it when he remembers to slide -- his instinct is to lower his shoulder and make it happen but his recent coaching is "don't do it, don't do it, don't do it" - so I believe he is thinking too much and trying to 'do the right thing' - and that made him take a risk with a pass on 4th down instead of take a risk with his body. #MyOpinion

[MSColtsFan]

13 hours ago, jbaron04 said:

I know , can't remember the last time we had sacks in bunches 

 

When the Colts had leads.  Sacks come from having the lead and making teams one dimensional.  The Colts haven't forced a team to pass in a long, long time. 

[stitches]

12 hours ago, ColtfreakDVA said:

Not trying to pick on you and understand your logic but you play the game to win.  Always. Period.

 

If our team tanked at game 4 or even game 10 I would be very disappointed. If we are mathematically out of it then I am ok with bringing in the rookies and letting them play out the season and get some reps.

 

I know most want to see pagano and grigs gone but to ask the team to speed that up sets a very bad precedent and in the spirit of professional competitive sports really stains the image of an organization.  And the coach isnt going to do that anyway if it means his job, so not going to happen.

 

That is a losing mentality and has no place in our organization (speaking on if the team did that).

 

I am rooting for them thick or thin.

I've always rooted for my team to win. If they are on the field they should be playing to win and I don't accept anything less. 

 

On the other hand I don't accept the premise that tanking is some sort of a blow to the spirit of competitive sports. You compete within the rules of the league and if the league allows for tanking practices, it's not only not bad to consider using them - it's irresponsible to not consider using them.

 

I think everybody on the team should be making sure this team has the best chance of winning. For the coach and players - it's in the immediate(next game), for the GM and ownership - it should be a balance between the immediate and the future(near and distant) and I see no shame in putting the team in competitive disadvantage in the immediate if it will mean better chance for competing in the future. That's especially true if there is little to no chance of this team being good this season.

 

I think the mistake a lot of people in the anti-tank camp make is assuming that this team is close to contention. That making the playoffs will somehow turn us into a contender. That even if by some miracle due to horrible AFC South we manage to scrape a playoff spot we are any closer to being a true contender than we are right now at 1-3. We are not and we will not be. The problem of this team is NOT the win-loss record. The problem of this team is that in the immediate they play horrible football, in the near future they have a horrible coach who I doubt will change much about the team playing horrible football and in the more distant future that we have a horrible GM who most probably won't be able to build up the roster to where the horrible coaching won't matter.

 

I really believe we need to look at the long game here. And yes - I have given up on this season and again - no, it's not because of the record, it's because of the condition of the talent both on the roster and in the coaching staff and management. This team has zero chance of contending this year and if I had to guess it will have about zero chance for as long as we have the current management and coaching staff. We are not close. This team is horribly coached and horribly built. This doesn't change in the matter of weeks or months. We will be bad for a while.

 

I'm not saying tank this season, I'm saying I will be OK if they decide to do it with the long-term situation of the team in mind.

 

And yes, I think the difference between picking top 8 and picking 15-20 in the draft matters. Especially if we actually had competent decision-makers on draft night.

 

 

[jimmy g]

All I know is look at the schedule.  Texans on a Sunday Niight. Packers, Jets,  Vikings.  Pittsburgh on Thanksgiving. KC, the Jags and Titans are out playing us.

 

Colts 1st string would struggle. Now, 3/4ths the team seems injured.  Bad D. Bad Protection. Bad Coaching. Colts go as far as Andrew carries them, apparently by himself, because we have what we have. Bill Cowher isn't coming to save us.

[jbaron04]

On 10/2/2016 at 9:20 PM, Superman said:

 

Give up on the season in Week 4...??? Good fan, you are.

 

And let's acknowledge the fact that Maggitt isn't actually any good, cost the team with a stupid penalty today, and can't set the edge in the run game. Let's say he he's a somewhat decent rotational player, at best -- he's not the answer to the bad pass rush.

How do you feel today?  When I saw these moves coming let the young guys play ...

[coltsfanatic24]

The ILB's are just as bad as the pass rushers. We're weak in the middle of the defense. It's going to take a couple of great drafts to fix the defense and I'm not confident Grigson can do it. Jeff Fisher is an average coach but he's great at drafting defense because that's all he knows. Mike Zimmer has made the Vikings into a top 3 defense because he knows defensive talent when he sees it. Grigson is an offensive guy and it shows in his drafts. 

[Superman]

2 hours ago, jbaron04 said:

How do you feel today?  When I saw these moves coming let the young guys play ...

 

The same. We weren't talking about getting rid of underperforming players.