Kick Off Return - New Rule

[Smonroe]

Does the new KO return rule change the type of player the team should use to return?

 

Quan was really good at returning, but with the new rule I'd think they'd tell him to take a knee if the ball is more than a yard or two deep in the end zone.

 

So, if the opposing team wants to force a return they'll either squib it or kick it high and short.

 

Wouldn't a team rather have a RB type of player fielding that ball than a small WR?  He's going to be hit a lot sooner than a guy coming out of the end zone.  RBs are used to taking those types of immediate hits.  I wonder if the Colts are adjusting their strategy.

 

Anyway, it's something to talk about while we're waiting for camp news.

[Valpo2004]

What is the new rule?  Start at the 25 like in college?

 

I would say for most part you want to knee when you get the ball in the endzone at all.

 

However the NFL is going to have a problem that college football doesn't have.  

 

In college football the returner is a guy who's position on the team is secure.  He's usually got a scholarship and there is a good chance that he's just an underclassman who's waiting for a few guys to graduate so he can crack the starting lineup.

 

In the NFL the returner is often (not always) a guy who's on the roster bubble.  So what you are going to have is a problem in that the returners in the NFL are going to want to take it out in order to prove their value or worth to the team.  It's not hard to find a reliable pair of hands back there and they know it.  So they want to show themselves as being more then just a reliable pair of hands.  

 

I would almost be tempted to put TY and Moncrief back in the endzone and let Bray play forward of the endzone on the off chance of a ball not going into the endzone on a kickoff.

 

TY and Moncrief know their positions with the team are secure and are less likely to be tempted to run it out of the endzone.  

 

 

[Smonroe]

Yes, the new rule is when you take a knee in the end zone, you get it on the 25.  Any smart returner is going to take a knee.

 

Now, to force a return you're going to have to kick short so there won't be as much open field running.  I'd rather have a big RB picking up the ball than a little WR who gets blasted after two steps.

[ReMeDy]

Wow, once again Goodell killing special teams. Pretty soon there won't be kickoffs at all. Every offense will just start at the 20 or 25.

 

Devin Hester, we will never see a player of your caliber ever again, even if there is one.

[Nadine]

If it means fewer concussions, it is a good idea

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, Nadine said:

If it means fewer concussions, it is a good idea

I would take Andrew getting the ball at the 25 anyday instead of like at the 10 or 15 and I agree regarding your safety issue point.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, ReMeDy said:

Wow, once again Goodell killing special teams. Pretty soon there won't be kickoffs at all. Every offense will just start at the 20 or 25.

 

Devin Hester, we will never see a player of your caliber ever again, even if there is one.

 

Goodall can't do this by himself....

 

He needs other owners and GM's to sign off on it....

 

He's trying to make the game SAFER......   

 

 

[cjwhiskers]

First post in quite awhile! Hello everyone!

 

This new rule will definitely encourage more teams to take a knee but there was already a ton of that last year...If anything won't this also encourage teams to not kick it as deep? 

 

We won't see Hesters but maybe we'll start seeing the emergence of more skillful kickers that consistently place it just short of the endzone. 

[sreeb2deeni]

2 hours ago, ReMeDy said:

Wow, once again Goodell killing special teams. Pretty soon there won't be kickoffs at all. Every offense will just start at the 20 or 25.

I also enjoy the thrill of the all-out chase and massive collision on a kickoff play, but I do see the point about head trauma. That said, the economics of football says they will never take it out all together because TV still has to play all those commercials after each score and again after the kickoff. And again when someone is injured. And again when a ref reviews a play.... etc, etc.... 

[Smonroe]

2 hours ago, Nadine said:

If it means fewer concussions, it is a good idea

 

Some, like Sean Payton, think it will result in more injuries because there will be short KOs forcing returns.

 

I guess the Sirius guys were at Pats camp today.  They said there's no way BB is going to allow teams to start on the 25.

 

Thats why I think the position may change to more of a RB type. They won't be getting as much of a running start.

[Nadine]

26 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

Some, like Sean Payton, think it will result in more injuries because there will be short KOs forcing returns.

 

I guess the Sirius guys were at Pats camp today.  They said there's no way BB is going to allow teams to start on the 25.

 

Thats why I think the position may change to more of a RB type. They won't be getting as much of a running start.

I didn't know that.  Hopefully it's not worse

[MB-ColtsFan]

Replace your kicker with a punter?

Hmm...

[crazycolt1]

4 minutes ago, MB-ColtsFan said:

Replace your kicker with a punter?

Hmm...

There trying to cut down on injuries and penalties. I could be wrong but your idea wouldn't help that cause.

[achcolts]

1 hour ago, MB-ColtsFan said:

Replace your kicker with a punter?

Hmm...

 

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

There trying to cut down on injuries and penalties. I could be wrong but your idea wouldn't help that cause.

 

What he's getting at is using a punter to pin the ball deep in territory but not in the endzone, with a punt vs kickoff to allow for the opposing team additional time to stop the return.

 

Correct me if im wrong, MB

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, achcolts said:

 

 

What he's getting at is using a punter to pin the ball deep in territory but not in the endzone, with a punt vs kickoff to allow for the opposing team additional time to stop the return.

 

Correct me if im wrong, MB

I get what you are saying but the whole issue is cutting down on injuries. No matter witch kicker kicks the ball it wouldn't help with injuries. I just dont know if the head coaches will have that big an issue with a 5 yard difference. If you have a punter trying to stay out of the end zone the chances of kicks going out of bounds rise.

[Valpo2004]

On 8/1/2016 at 10:16 AM, Smonroe said:

Yes, the new rule is when you take a knee in the end zone, you get it on the 25.  Any smart returner is going to take a knee.

 

Now, to force a return you're going to have to kick short so there won't be as much open field running.  I'd rather have a big RB picking up the ball than a little WR who gets blasted after two steps.

 

I don't think coaches are going to try and force the return by kicking it short.  

 

Even if you can catch him before the 25 . . . where is that likely to be?  The 20?  

 

That's a lot of risks just to save yourself some extra yards.  I mean think about all that can happen on a kickoff that doesn't go your way.

 

First of all the player has a good chance of getting beyond the 25.

 

There is the chance of a big return

 

There is the chance that the ball could bounce out of bounds and they will place it at the 40.  

 

They don't do it in college and they won't do it in the NFL.  Too many risks and not enough reward to warrant trying to kick it short of the endzone.  

[Valpo2004]

15 hours ago, Smonroe said:

 

Some, like Sean Payton, think it will result in more injuries because there will be short KOs forcing returns.

 

I guess the Sirius guys were at Pats camp today.  They said there's no way BB is going to allow teams to start on the 25.

 

Thats why I think the position may change to more of a RB type. They won't be getting as much of a running start.

 

No he will. . . they all will.  

 

There are too many risks to kicking it short and not enough reward.  The strategy for the kicking team isn't going to change over a mere 5 yards.  

 

I've never seen a college team try kicking it short.  

 

Now I will say that at this point I question what the point is to having a kick off in the first place because 90% of the time it's just this little formality.  But in terms of strategy I don't think this changes anything for the kicking team, although for the receiving team it will likely mean coaches will insist on their players taking a knee.

[crazycolt1]

4 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

No he will. . . they all will.  

 

There are too many risks to kicking it short and not enough reward.  The strategy for the kicking team isn't going to change over a mere 5 yards.  

 

I've never seen a college team try kicking it short.  

 

Now I will say that at this point I question what the point is to having a kick off in the first place because 90% of the time it's just this little formality.  But in terms of strategy I don't think this changes anything for the kicking team, although for the receiving team it will likely mean coaches will insist on their players taking a knee.

Wouldn't a shorter kick result in less time for the coverage to get down the field? That is my thought. I agree with you. I don't think there will by any changes over a 5 yard difference.

[Smonroe]

8 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Wouldn't a shorter kick result in less time for the coverage to get down the field? That is my thought. I agree with you. I don't think there will by any changes over a 5 yard difference.

 

I disagree.  Starting at the 25 is a big deal and it's going to change strategy.  Last year the average starting position was less than the 22 yard line and all 32 teams kept opponents average inside the 23 yard line.  The Bills managed to keep them inside the 20.  That's a nice advantage in field position.

 

No coach is going to want to give away an automatic 25 yards unless they totally fear the returner.

 

I think Sean Peyton is right, there may be more returns this year resulting in the opposite effect the NFL desires.

 

 

[crazycolt1]

23 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

I disagree.  Starting at the 25 is a big deal and it's going to change strategy.  Last year the average starting position was less than the 22 yard line and all 32 teams kept opponents average inside the 23 yard line.  The Bills managed to keep them inside the 20.  That's a nice advantage in field position.

 

No coach is going to want to give away an automatic 25 yards unless they totally fear the returner.

 

I think Sean Peyton is right, there may be more returns this year resulting in the opposite effect the NFL desires.

 

 

The whole purpose is to cut down on injuries so I really don't know what the results will be. If this change does not result in injuries being down I don't see this change staying. One think to keep In mind when you bring up the facts about where the average starting position is, is what percentage does a penalty happen during a kick off or for a punt for that matter. I am pretty sure the majority of penalties come on kicks either punting or kick offs. On the other hand you say the average starting position is at the 22 yards line? If that's the case we are only talking about 3 yards. Is the injury factor worth 3 yards?

[Smonroe]

20 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

The whole purpose is to cut down on injuries so I really don't know what the results will be. If this change does not result in injuries being down I don't see this change staying. One think to keep In mind when you bring up the facts about where the average starting position is, is what percentage does a penalty happen during a kick off or for a punt for that matter. I am pretty sure the majority of penalties come on kicks either punting or kick offs. On the other hand you say the average starting position is at the 22 yards line? If that's the case we are only talking about 3 yards. Is the injury factor worth 3 yards?

 

You're right, we really won't know until the season starts.  I think there are more penalties on punt returns than KRs, but it does play into the stat.

 

22 yard line is an average, but the goal is to pin your opponent deep.  So it's really not a matter of 3 yards, it's a matter of not wanting to give good field position.  That's why a lot of coaches think the new rule is going to backfire and result in shorter kicks to force returns.

 

When I originally started this thread I was thinking about the KO returner.  Typically you want one of your fastest guys.  My thought was that if they're kicking shorter to force returns, maybe you want a RB body type instead of a small WR type.  They're used to handling quick contact.  Just a thought, we'll see how it plays out.

 

The good thing for us is that we have one of the best kickers in the league who can squib or kick long. 

[MB-ColtsFan]

Bottom line here is if the NFL wants to cut down on head injuries caused by kickoff returns then it should just eliminate the kickoff completely.  You are always going to have coaches that will find a way to scheme against the intended result.  It's just the way the game is played.

 

 I agree with Smonroe in that no coach wants to just give away 25 yards.  Maybe they eliminate the kickoff and the offense starts on the 20.  End of story.  I guess I could live with that.  It would certainly change the way you look at personnel like Smonroe said.

[crazycolt1]

34 minutes ago, MB-ColtsFan said:

Bottom line here is if the NFL wants to cut down on head injuries caused by kickoff returns then it should just eliminate the kickoff completely.  You are always going to have coaches that will find a way to scheme against the intended result.  It's just the way the game is played.

 

 I agree with Smonroe in that no coach wants to just give away 25 yards.  Maybe they eliminate the kickoff and the offense starts on the 20.  End of story.  I guess I could live with that.  It would certainly change the way you look at personnel like Smonroe said.

A very valid point. I know there are a lot of fans who don't want to just do away with the kickoff. It's been such a tradition and can be one of the most exciting plays in the game. I guess I am kind of the middle because I understand both points of views.

[B~Town]

I wonder what it will do to overall scoring across the board . I read a article about teams starting at the 20 and 25 throughout  history and teams when starting from the 25 yard were much more successful at scoring . There were a few theories to explain this such as a statistical anomaly or the plays coaches are willing to call from the 25 as opposed to the 20 among others .

[Smonroe]

1 hour ago, B~Town said:

I wonder what it will do to overall scoring across the board . I read a article about teams starting at the 20 and 25 throughout  history and teams when starting from the 25 yard were much more successful at scoring . There were a few theories to explain this such as a statistical anomaly or the plays coaches are willing to call from the 25 as opposed to the 20 among others .

 

That is kind of odd that 5 yards could make too much of a difference.  But teams do play more conservative when they're inside the 20 for the most part.

 

As far as eliminating the KO - it really can't be done.  It would mean that games would effectively be over when a team scores with around a minute left but is still down.  No onside kick means the other team runs out the clock.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

On 8/1/2016 at 7:19 AM, Valpo2004 said:

What is the new rule?  Start at the 25 like in college?

 

I would say for most part you want to knee when you get the ball in the endzone at all.

 

However the NFL is going to have a problem that college football doesn't have.  

 

In college football the returner is a guy who's position on the team is secure.  He's usually got a scholarship and there is a good chance that he's just an underclassman who's waiting for a few guys to graduate so he can crack the starting lineup.

 

In the NFL the returner is often (not always) a guy who's on the roster bubble.  So what you are going to have is a problem in that the returners in the NFL are going to want to take it out in order to prove their value or worth to the team.  It's not hard to find a reliable pair of hands back there and they know it.  So they want to show themselves as being more then just a reliable pair of hands.  

 

I would almost be tempted to put TY and Moncrief back in the endzone and let Bray play forward of the endzone on the off chance of a ball not going into the endzone on a kickoff.

 

TY and Moncrief know their positions with the team are secure and are less likely to be tempted to run it out of the endzone.  

 

 

 

I'd prefer to keep TY and Moncrief off the field on STs... neither of them have 'great' hands (like Marvin, Jerry Rice, Cris Carter, etc..) and it seems just like a risk of injury even if 95% of the time they were just there to catch and kneel.  I just don't think they have hands that are that much better at catching a kick to kneel it than other guys who have a much lesser role in the offense.  I agree with you, this bubble players are trying to give themselves an edge by showing what they can do, but I don't think it'd be too difficult for a coach to say "If the ball is more than 1 yard deep in the endzone and you take it out, you're getting your * sent to the bench."

 

1 hour ago, MB-ColtsFan said:

Bottom line here is if the NFL wants to cut down on head injuries caused by kickoff returns then it should just eliminate the kickoff completely.  You are always going to have coaches that will find a way to scheme against the intended result.  It's just the way the game is played.

 

 I agree with Smonroe in that no coach wants to just give away 25 yards.  Maybe they eliminate the kickoff and the offense starts on the 20.  End of story.  I guess I could live with that.  It would certainly change the way you look at personnel like Smonroe said.

 

 

I agree with you, and Smonroe -- this could totally change the way personnel is looked at. 

I think it's definitely going to be something for the coaches/FO to think about when selecting the final 53.  If healthy, I doubt we'll see much from WRs after TY, Moncrief and Dorsett (I'm sure there will be times for a 4 WR set, but highly doubt we'll see much in terms of contribution from guys after those 3 on the depth chart).  If the coaches/FO decide this KO rule is going to significantly impact their strategy, I will not be shocked at all to see us carry only 4 WRs to allow us to add a body (or 2) at other positions.  As others have pointed out, a guy like Bray might not be best suited to handle KOs with this rule.... so IMO, it'd be pretty pointless to have a guy who isn't going to contribute on offense and who is not greatly suited for this KO rule to be our 'return specialist' as a PR only (I'm not saying Bray doesn't have a chance to show he can perform at WR, etc... just hypothetically saying this could really affect our roster strategy come time to make final cuts to 53).

 

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

A very valid point. I know there are a lot of fans who don't want to just do away with the kickoff. It's been such a tradition and can be one of the most exciting plays in the game. I guess I am kind of the middle because I understand both points of views.

 

I am not sure how one would 'completely do away with the kickoff.'  I see where some people are coming from in terms of wanting to make the game safer..... but aside from the KO being an exciting play, used for field position, etc..... the KO has been huge in terms of turnovers (we may have won the SB against New Orleans if not for the on-side kick, for example) and I think that'd be a total disservice to the game and the fans if the KO was just flat out eliminated.

 

If a team is down 2 scores with 2 minutes left in a game -- pretty much the only hope for the team (and their fans) is to wish for a successful onside kick.  The NFL would lose a lot of business/viewers if the play was completely done away with... a major reason people stay in stadiums (and possibly purchase food/drink/merchandise) in late games that are more than 1 score apart is due to the threat of an onside kick (same for viewers watching on TV).... if every time a team scored, the other team just was handed the ball back, I think it'd be too major a change for the competitiveness of the game.

 

All that said, I'm all for trying to make the game safer -- I just don't see how that play can be totally removed without having major negative impacts on the game itself and the business of the NFL.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

5 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

That is kind of odd that 5 yards could make too much of a difference.  But teams do play more conservative when they're inside the 20 for the most part.

 

As far as eliminating the KO - it really can't be done.  It would mean that games would effectively be over when a team scores with around a minute left but is still down.  No onside kick means the other team runs out the clock.

 

I was writing about the onside kick just as you were.... but yes, exactly..... not only that, but would it mean there'd be a rule that kickoffs can only happen in a 2 score or less game with under 2 minutes to play or something?

 

Shoot -- I love that Patty Mac has been given the green light to onside kick if he sees something in coverage.... that has benefited us multiple times over the past couple of seasons, without a doubt.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap3000000408221/Wk-6-Can-t-Miss-Play-McAfee-recovers-his-own-kick

[Valpo2004]

5 hours ago, Smonroe said:

 

You're right, we really won't know until the season starts.  I think there are more penalties on punt returns than KRs, but it does play into the stat.

 

22 yard line is an average, but the goal is to pin your opponent deep.  So it's really not a matter of 3 yards, it's a matter of not wanting to give good field position.  That's why a lot of coaches think the new rule is going to backfire and result in shorter kicks to force returns.

 

When I originally started this thread I was thinking about the KO returner.  Typically you want one of your fastest guys.  My thought was that if they're kicking shorter to force returns, maybe you want a RB body type instead of a small WR type.  They're used to handling quick contact.  Just a thought, we'll see how it plays out.

 

The good thing for us is that we have one of the best kickers in the league who can squib or kick long. 

 

On a kickoff, pinning your opponent deep is not a realistic goal.  The only way that a guy realistically gets tackled behind the 10 is if he screws up bad.  Not only do you have to get down the field but their entire team is in front of them in a position to make blocks.  This isn't like a punt.  The set up is totally different and the rules are totally different.  A punter can have his ball go out of bounds at the 1 yard line, in fact that's a goal (it's called coffin corner).  If that happens on a kickoff, they move the ball to the 40.

 

This is why I think your argument fails.  There is very little reward in kicking short and a lot of risk on a kickoff.  

 

And also I think previous experience shows us that this argument fails.  In college football no one kicks it short.  

 

This changes nothing in terms of kicking strategy. 

[Smonroe]

10 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

On a kickoff, pinning your opponent deep is not a realistic goal.  The only way that a guy realistically gets tackled behind the 10 is if he screws up bad.  Not only do you have to get down the field but their entire team is in front of them in a position to make blocks.  This isn't like a punt.  The set up is totally different and the rules are totally different.  A punter can have his ball go out of bounds at the 1 yard line, in fact that's a goal (it's called coffin corner).  If that happens on a kickoff, they move the ball to the 40.

 

This is why I think your argument fails.  There is very little reward in kicking short and a lot of risk on a kickoff.  

 

And also I think previous experience shows us that this argument fails.  In college football no one kicks it short.  

 

This changes nothing in terms of kicking strategy. 

 

By 'short' I mean short of the endzone.  I should have been more clear on that.  In other words - force a return.  If you listened to any of the camp visits on Sirius you'd hear that everyone is thinking about it.

 

No one wants to give the opposing team a start at the 25 yd line every time, so there potentially will be more shorter kicks forcing them to return.

[cdgacoltsfan]

On 8/1/2016 at 4:28 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Goodall can't do this by himself....

 

He needs other owners and GM's to sign off on it....

 

He's trying to make the game SAFER......   

 

 

Is that why they now have the option to go for 2 point conversions..it's safer?

Is that why they play on Thursday night's after 3 days rest...it's safer?

Is that why they are playing games in England and Mexico...its safer?

[crazycolt1]

28 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Is that why they now have the option to go for 2 point conversions..it's safer?

Is that why they play on Thursday night's after 3 days rest...it's safer?

Is that why they are playing games in England and Mexico...its safer?

Safer has nothing to do with 2 of the 3 things you mentioned. Thursday games are a money making thing by the TV deals. England and Mexico are money things also by trying to put a dent in the largest sport in the world in soccer. The NFL owners may be rich but not so in comparison to the world soccer teams.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

On 8/1/2016 at 3:18 PM, ReMeDy said:

Wow, once again Goodell killing special teams. Pretty soon there won't be kickoffs at all. Every offense will just start at the 20 or 25.

 

Devin Hester, we will never see a player of your caliber ever again, even if there is one.

Agreed....it is a very exciting part of the game soon to be succumbed to JR High School rules

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Is that why they now have the option to go for 2 point conversions..it's safer?

Is that why they play on Thursday night's after 3 days rest...it's safer?

Is that why they are playing games in England and Mexico...its safer?

 

You'll get no argument from me on those issues.....   

 

Goodell is not just trying to make the game safer,  he's also trying to maximize money for the owners and players.     And those are some of the things he's doing to maximize money.     It's a balancing act.

 

I don't like everything,   but I don't dislike everything either.   

 

 

[Valpo2004]

On 8/2/2016 at 3:55 PM, Smonroe said:

 

By 'short' I mean short of the endzone.  I should have been more clear on that.  In other words - force a return.  If you listened to any of the camp visits on Sirius you'd hear that everyone is thinking about it.

 

No one wants to give the opposing team a start at the 25 yd line every time, so there potentially will be more shorter kicks forcing them to return.

 

No I know what you mean but I still strongly disagree.

 

They changed it from the 20 to the 25 in college football several years ago.  I've never seen any college football teams try to kick it short of the endzone to force a return.  

 

Too many risks.  

 

They might consider it if they could guarantee ball placement, (and I'm not sure even then) but you can't.  A kicker, using a tee, simply can not guarantee that his ball is going to drop at the 1.  It could end up dropping at the 10.  And if they field it at the 10 with the entire team out front to block for them, they are going to get past the 25 nearly every time.  Even dropping the ball at the 1 would likely see them get to or in-front of the 25 about 50% of the time.

 

Also remember placement of the ball kicking from a tee isn't really an artform that has ever been worked on in football EVER.  On the kickoffs with the exception of squib kicks and onside kicks, it's always been the strategy to just kick it as far as you can and keep it in bounds.  No one has ever really worked at trying to drop it in a certain spot from a tee.

 

Also pinning someone deep on a kickoff isn't a thing.  No one pins the other team inside their own 10 without the other team's returner making some huge mistakes.  

 

Trust me kicking strategy won't change.  Kickoffs are very different from punts, entirely different animals really.  

[Smonroe]

35 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

No I know what you mean but I still strongly disagree.

 

They changed it from the 20 to the 25 in college football several years ago.  I've never seen any college football teams try to kick it short of the endzone to force a return.  

 

Too many risks.  

 

They might consider it if they could guarantee ball placement, (and I'm not sure even then) but you can't.  A kicker, using a tee, simply can not guarantee that his ball is going to drop at the 1.  It could end up dropping at the 10.  And if they field it at the 10 with the entire team out front to block for them, they are going to get past the 25 nearly every time.  Even dropping the ball at the 1 would likely see them get to or in-front of the 25 about 50% of the time.

 

Also remember placement of the ball kicking from a tee isn't really an artform that has ever been worked on in football EVER.  On the kickoffs with the exception of squib kicks and onside kicks, it's always been the strategy to just kick it as far as you can and keep it in bounds.  No one has ever really worked at trying to drop it in a certain spot from a tee.

 

Also pinning someone deep on a kickoff isn't a thing.  No one pins the other team inside their own 10 without the other team's returner making some huge mistakes.  

 

Trust me kicking strategy won't change.  Kickoffs are very different from punts, entirely different animals really.  

 

I know from the Sirius training camp visits that teams are already evaluating ways to short kick.  They flat out said that there's no way Belicheck is going to allow teams to start at the 25.  I'm not sure what you meant but it's not that difficult to kick short of the endzone in order to force a return.

 

I agree, they can't place it like a punt but they can do things like squib or just plain kick short.  If the guy receives the kick inside the 10, he has no choice but to return.  If teams start kicking short to prevent the better field position, this has the opposite effect that the new rule is trying to have.

 

IMO, the KO is going to depend on how much we trust our STs coupled with how much we fear their returner.  Kick it deep or make them return it.  That hasn't changed because of the rule, just that now they're more likely to take a knee on a deep kick.

 

My original question was - since teams will rarely take it out of the endzone for a return, will that change what they want in kick returners?  I'm assuming that most of the returns will be from short(er) KOs.  Little time to build up speed, so would we rather have a big RB back there? 

 

Is our disagreement that you don't think the extra 5 yard is that important?  Is so, we'll just have to agree (that I'm right and) to disagree (that you are).  LOL

[throwing BBZ]

On 8/1/2016 at 3:18 PM, ReMeDy said:

Wow, once again Goodell killing special teams. Pretty soon there won't be kickoffs at all. Every offense will just start at the 20 or 25.

 

Devin Hester, we will never see a player of your caliber ever again, even if there is one.

 

 The Education of an ....    For those that actually care how rules are changed.
  Warning, some may find this kinda deep.

[Smonroe]

On August 4, 2016 at 9:11 AM, Valpo2004 said:

 

No I know what you mean but I still strongly disagree.

 

They changed it from the 20 to the 25 in college football several years ago.  I've never seen any college football teams try to kick it short of the endzone to force a return.  

 

Too many risks.  

 

They might consider it if they could guarantee ball placement, (and I'm not sure even then) but you can't.  A kicker, using a tee, simply can not guarantee that his ball is going to drop at the 1.  It could end up dropping at the 10.  And if they field it at the 10 with the entire team out front to block for them, they are going to get past the 25 nearly every time.  Even dropping the ball at the 1 would likely see them get to or in-front of the 25 about 50% of the time.

 

Also remember placement of the ball kicking from a tee isn't really an artform that has ever been worked on in football EVER.  On the kickoffs with the exception of squib kicks and onside kicks, it's always been the strategy to just kick it as far as you can and keep it in bounds.  No one has ever really worked at trying to drop it in a certain spot from a tee.

 

Also pinning someone deep on a kickoff isn't a thing.  No one pins the other team inside their own 10 without the other team's returner making some huge mistakes.  

 

Trust me kicking strategy won't change.  Kickoffs are very different from punts, entirely different animals really.  

 

Maybe be now you'll believe me.

http://www.colts.com/videos/videos/Pagano-On-Short-Kickoffs-Wed-be-silly-not-to/f5ba39b3-d5db-4455-9357-7c41cdab4831

 

 

[Smonroe]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/08/05/how-will-receiving-teams-handle-short-kickoffs/

 

Valpo, not trying to pile on.  I just want to point out that this may change what we want in our KO return man.