Colts re-sign Dwayne Allen, four years $29.4m [Merge]

[SteelCityColt]

24 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Ah, I was just hoping that I could prod him a little more.  He didn't bite.  Plus, I don't think he was being all that serious.  I thought his post was a joke anyway, a funny one at that.

PC Police badge handed in..

[ColtsLegacy]

47 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Fleener was drafted in the second and DA the third in the same draft.  Why?  Because the Colts wanted a two TE offense and wanted TEs that were different from each other to accomplish two different goals.  If they wanted a one-TE offense, they would have drafted either DA or Coby in the early rounds and a backup in the later rounds or signed a vet FA.

 

This forum has consistently compared the two with each other, which is wrong.  people consistently support one and not the other, as if DA and Fleener were competing with each other for the same position and the same kind of playing time.  They don't.  The only reason Fleener played DAs role over the years is because DA was hurt, forcing Fleener to downshift into playing a role he is not suited for.

 

Fleener's expendability was written when the Colts drafted Dorsett.  I'd rather have Dorsett as the 3rd receiver than Coby split into the slot.  I'd rather have DA over Fleener because DA is more of the short yardage possession TE...which is what he was drafted to do and why he lasted until the third.....its not as valuable of a role as the seam splitting TE that Fleener was supposed to do...but didn't since he had to fulfill DA's role frequently over the years.

 

Doyle is the same kind of TE as DA.  Both play H back occasionally. 

 

Dopes should stop injecting Fleener into a DA thread, which they do so because of the OUTWARD appearances of the two, and fail to even make a thought about what roles they play.

 

Its not my prejudices, its others'.  I've never compared Fleener and DA unless someone makes stupid comments, and those comments are usually directed towards Fleener for some reason.....

 

You can play dumb all you want but you've made plenty of totally erroneous comments regarding DA in order to support your point. Mainly your claims that Doyle can do everything Allen can and that Allen can't get open downfield. You apply these assumptions to DA because he's been given the "blocking TE" title and because he ran a 4.8 in shorts. Dwayne Allen really isn't a blocking TE. He's an even better receiver than he is a blocker. Hell, coming out of the draft nobody really knew if he could block at the NFL level. He won the Mackey award over Fleener based on his exceptional receiving ability.

 

As for the Colts drafting Fleener over Allen and that meaning something, well, it really doesn't. They just signed Allen over Fleener and that says a lot more. If the draft was done over after the 2012 season Allen would have been a very high 1st round pick, whereas Fleener would have at best remained in the same area.

 

And it's not Allen fans who are bringing up Fleener (only in response), it's the Fleener fans who can't stand that the Colts kept the better TE.

 

Here watch a highlight tape of DA:

 

Look at that. He's running intermediate to deep routes and getting open often. Burst and speed on screens. Catches the ball like a can of corn. Defenders want no part of tackling him. Who knew? I thought this guy could only block and run 5 yard hitches?

 

Now find me a highlight film of Fleener making play after play with the tenacity Allen shows. Better yet show me one where Doyle shows me a tenth of the athleticism/skills/play making ability Allen shows.

 

 

Here's PFFs thoughts on the signing. These guys actually watch the games and know what they're watching:

 

C:

TE Dwayne Allen (IND): Four years, $29.4 million with $16 million guaranteed

On his recent performance this deal makes little sense. But Allen has talent like few others at the position. If he can find the kind of form he did in his rookie year, and if the Colts can figure out how to use him more often, he has the talent to get Pro Bowl and All-Pro nods.

 

I look forward to seeing Jack Doyle on the All-Pro team.

[OffensivelyPC]

40 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

PC Police badge handed in..

Of course, I could have been wrong...I dunno, I'm gracefully ducking out just in case.

[DougDew]

28 minutes ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

You can play dumb all you want but you've made plenty of totally erroneous comments regarding DA in order to support your point. Mainly your claims that Doyle can do everything Allen can and that Allen can't get open downfield. You apply these assumptions to DA because he's been given the "blocking TE" title and because he ran a 4.8 in shorts. Dwayne Allen really isn't a blocking TE. He's an even better receiver than he is a blocker. Hell, coming out of the draft nobody really knew if he could block at the NFL level. He won the Mackey award over Fleener based on his exceptional receiving ability.

 

As for the Colts drafting Fleener over Allen and that meaning something, well, it really doesn't. They just signed Allen over Fleener and that says a lot more. If the draft was done over after the 2012 season Allen would have been a very high 1st round pick, whereas Fleener would have at best remained in the same area.

 

And it's not Allen fans who are bringing up Fleener (only in response), it's the Fleener fans who can't stand that the Colts kept the better TE.

 

Here watch a highlight tape of DA:

 

Look at that. He's running intermediate to deep routes and getting open often. Burst and speed on screens. Catches the ball like a can of corn. Defenders want no part of tackling him. Who knew? I thought this guy could only block and run 5 yard hitches?

 

Now find me a highlight film of Fleener making play after play with the tenacity Allen shows. Better yet show me one where Doyle shows me a tenth of the athleticism/skills/play making ability Allen shows.

 

 

Here's PFFs thoughts on the signing. These guys actually watch the games and know what they're watching:

 

C:

TE Dwayne Allen (IND): Four years, $29.4 million with $16 million guaranteed

On his recent performance this deal makes little sense. But Allen has talent like few others at the position. If he can find the kind of form he did in his rookie year, and if the Colts can figure out how to use him more often, he has the talent to get Pro Bowl and All-Pro nods.

 

I look forward to seeing Jack Doyle on the All-Pro team.

He had a good rookie year, that's for sure.

 

In those highlights, DA was open either because it was zone coverage or because the play broke down and Luck bought time.  About any TE in the NFL, including Doyle, who averaged 4.8 40 in his pro day, could have done that too.  Its not the same situation as beating a LB or Safety in man to man, although I'm sure Allen has done that depending upon who the LB or S was.

 

Bottom line.  In a the year they were drafted, the Colts had plenty of holes to fill.  They would not have drafted two TEs back to back if they had the same skill set, yet many people compare the two as if they are supposed to have the same skill set.  Additionally, Fleener went to the Saints for a reason.  I don't recall Jimmy Graham being touted as great TE for his ability to knock over defenders. 

 

They are two different players, yet Fleener consistently gets knocked by the macho intimidator crowd for his lack toughness, which isn't even part of his game.

 

As far as Doyle, there are highlights of him making tough plays and athletic plays, but he hasn't been targeted much as he was kept in for blocking often.  I'm not going to look for you-tube clips.

 

Yes, I'd rather have Doyle at less than a mill than DA at 7.

 

And BTW, the difference in the contract structure shows that the Saints made more of a financial commitment to Fleener than the Colts did with DA, even though the per year numbers are equal.

[ColtsLegacy]

14 minutes ago, DougDew said:

He had a good rookie year, that's for sure.

 

In those highlights, DA was open either because it was zone coverage or because the play broke down and Luck bought time.  About any TE in the NFL, including Doyle, who averaged 4.8 40 in his pro day, could have done that too.  Its not the same situation as beating a LB or Safety in man to man, although I'm sure Allen has done that depending upon who the LB or S was.

 

Bottom line.  In a the year they were drafted, the Colts had plenty of holes to fill.  They would not have drafted two TEs back to back if they had the same skill set.  Additionally, Fleener went to the Saints for a reason.  I don't recall Jimmy Graham being touted as great TE for his ability to knock over defenders. 

 

They are two different players, yet Fleener consistently gets knocked by the macho intimidator crowd for his lack toughness, which isn't even part of his game.

 

As far as Doyle, there are highlights of him making tough plays and athletic plays, but he hasn't been targeted much as he was kept in for blocking often.  I'm not going to look for you-tube clips.

 

Yes, I'd rather have Doyle at less than a mill than DA at 7.

 

And BTW, the difference in the contract structure shows that the Saints made much more of a financial commitment to Fleener than the Colts did with DA, even though the per year numbers are equal.

 

Good god. This is just false and lazy. You're completely biased and not worth anymore time. Ridiculous.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

13 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Can you believe Brock got 18 Mill? That is freakin hilarious. Hoyer is so bad though that the Texans were desperate.

 

And thats what I don't get when looking at Barnwells grades you notice Osweiler & Hoyer were as far as there 2015 season similar in stats with a tiny edge to Hoyer it seems like a lot for his body of work .

 

IMO Hoyer is the NFL's version of Rodney Dangerfield ..

[DougDew]

12 minutes ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

Good god. This is just false and lazy. You're completely biased and not worth anymore time. Ridiculous.

No smart person would compare the stats of a possession receiver like Reggie Wayne to a downfield threat receiver like Marvin Harrision without discussing the two different skill sets and roles they played. 

 

So why do people on this forum compare Allen and Fleener straight up, like they are supposed to be interchangeable?    Here I thought people were prejudice. Maybe they're just dumb.

[BlueCollarColts]

Glad Allen is back, if he can get healthy he could be one of the top tight ends in the league.

[ColtsLegacy]

32 minutes ago, DougDew said:

No smart person would compare the stats of a possession receiver like Reggie Wayne to a downfield threat receiver like Marvin Harrision without discussing the two different skill sets and roles they played. 

 

So why do people on this forum compare Allen and Fleener straight up, like they are supposed to be interchangeable?    Here I thought people were prejudice. Maybe they're just dumb.

 

Hmm, well, the "possession" receiver had a higher career YPC average than the "downfield threat" receiver. And the "downfield threat" had 143 receptions in one season.

 

As for our TEs, the comparisons happen because they both are young TEs on the same team, and, despite what you think you know, DA can do a lot of what Fleener can do (and better) but the same cannot be said the other way around. The Colts know this. This is the reason the Colts kept DA over Fleener, despite the injuries and lack of stat production.

[DougDew]

14 minutes ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

Lmao, well, the "possession" receiver had a higher career YPC average than the "downfield threat" receiver. And the "downfield threat" had 143 receptions in one season.

 

What is the universe of games you are comparing.  21 to 70?  Fleener had to play Allens short man role in more games than Allen played his short man role because Allen was nursing boo-boos, whereas DA got his catches when the downfield threat TE was on the field.  That YPC was no doubt comprised of YAC.

 

C'mon man...use your brain.  Don't just quote someone else's complied stats. 

[DougDew]

52 minutes ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

Hmm, well, the "possession" receiver had a higher career YPC average than the "downfield threat" receiver. And the "downfield threat" had 143 receptions in one season.

 

As for our TEs, the comparisons happen because they both are young TEs on the same team, and, despite what you think you know, DA can do a lot of what Fleener can do (and better) but the same cannot be said the other way around. The Colts know this. This is the reason the Colts kept DA over Fleener, despite the injuries and lack of stat production.

Look,

I'm sure DA will succeed, and I hope he does.  He will get open, and get YAC by knocking defenders over.  That's great, and I want him instead of Fleener.  But....he will get open, in part, because TY, Moncrief, and Dorsett will threaten to stretch the field.  And Doyle and a lot of other TEs would get open too.  Fleener would get open too, but Fleener wouldn't get the YAC because he gets arm tackled.  Based upon the personnel we have, keeping DA makes much more sense.

 

But what you've been saying is that if we had TY, an aging Reggie, and an ineffective Nicks, that DA would beat LBs and S man to man as well as or better than Fleener did. That is simply not true, nor was it ever thought to be his game in college or at anytime in the NFL.  And Fleener didn't even do it that well.

 

We have three downfield threats.  We don't need another one more than we need a guy who can get YAC on the underneath routes.  But if the personnel was different, like if we still had AJ and Reggie, we might need Fleener more than DA.

 

DA and Fleener are not really that comparable, IMO.

 

 

[ColtsLegacy]

42 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

What is the universe of games you are comparing.  21 to 70?  Fleener had to play Allens short man role in more games than Allen played his short man role because Allen was nursing boo-boos, whereas DA got his catches when the downfield threat TE was on the field.  That YPC was no doubt comprised of YAC.

 

C'mon man...use your brain.  Don't just quote someone else's complied stats. 

 

. I'm talking about Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison there. Use your brain.

[ColtsLegacy]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Look,

I'm sure DA will succeed, and I hope he does.  He will get open, and get YAC by knocking defenders over.  That's great, and I want him instead of Fleener.  But....he will get open, in part, because TY, Moncrief, and Dorsett will threaten to stretch the field.  And Doyle and a lot of other TEs would get open too.  Fleener would get open too, but Fleener wouldn't get the YAC because he gets arm tackled.  Based upon the personnel we have, keeping DA makes much more sense.

 

But what you've been saying is that if we had TY, an aging Reggie, and an ineffective Nicks, that DA would beat LBs and S man to man as well as or better than Fleener did. That is simply not true, nor was it ever thought to be his game in college or at anytime in the NFL.  And Fleener didn't even do it that well.

 

We have three downfield threats.  We don't need another one more than we need a guy who can get YAC on the underneath routes.  But if the personnel was different, like if we still had AJ and Reggie, we might need Fleener more than DA.

 

DA and Fleener are not really that comparable, IMO.

 

 

 

As you say, Fleener wasn't all that good at beating his guys in previous years. Just because Allen isn't the physical specimen Fleener is doesn't mean he can't outperform him in that role. You keep saying how Fleener gets tackled so easily and Allen will fight for YAC, which is very true and part of what makes a good receiver or an average/poor receiver. Allen is a better route runner, stronger, and his game speed is much closer to Fleener's than 40 times would suggest (please understand that 40 times and game speed are not the same thing). Allen can easily run the intermediate route tree that Fleener ran and he can create enough separation, something you agreed Fleener wasn't great at. If Allen brings his CIT (catch in traffic) and YAC ability to the intermediate game, which there's no reason he wouldn't, he will outperform Coby in that area as well.

 

As for the downfield threats, when was Fleener ever a downfield threat? He was supposed to be but I don't remember him ever catching a deep ball other than a few busted coverage plays, and certainly none where he out jumped his man. And you can't say he drew coverage or stretched the defense because nobody is scared of the big fast guy who never catches a deep pass and plays like he's 5'10".

 

And again, the implication that Doyle and a lot of other TEs can do what DA will do is false and a backhanded shot at Allen. If it were true the Colts would not have paid him 7+mil and the rumored FA market of ~8mil would not exist. Pure ignorance, honestly.

 

You need to stop pigeon holing Allen. He is a much better athlete than you give him credit for. 

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

As you say, Fleener wasn't all that good at beating his guys in previous years. Just because Allen isn't the physical specimen Fleener is doesn't mean he can't outperform him in that role. You keep saying how Fleener gets tackled so easily and Allen will fight for YAC, which is very true and part of what makes a good receiver or an average/poor receiver. Allen is a better route runner, stronger, and his game speed is much closer to Fleener's than 40 times would suggest (please understand that 40 times and game speed are not the same thing). Allen can easily run the intermediate route tree that Fleener ran and he can create enough separation, something you agreed Fleener wasn't great at. If Allen brings his CIT (catch in traffic) and YAC ability to the intermediate game, which there's no reason he wouldn't, he will outperform Coby in that area as well.

 

As for the downfield threats, when was Fleener ever a downfield threat? He was supposed to be but I don't remember him ever catching a deep ball other than a few busted coverage plays, and certainly none where he out jumped his man. And you can't say he drew coverage or stretched the defense because nobody is scared of the big fast guy who never catches a deep pass.

 

And again, the implication that Doyle and a lot of other TEs can do what DA will do is false and a backhanded shot at Allen. If it were true the Colts would not have paid him 7+mil and the rumored FA market of ~8mil would not exist. Pure ignorance, honestly.

 

You need to stop pigeon holing Allen. He is a much better athlete than you give him credit for. 

Both Allen and Doyle have a limited body of work. Many of the highlights shown on the you-tube video were from his rookie year.   Allen's rookie year was a while ago, under a different and better OC, got targeted because Fleener struggled to see the ball and catch it, and Reggie was a beast that drew attention.  There are a lot of differences in the situation he had in his rookie year and what he has had during the time he shared with Doyle.  When in the game and called upon, Doyle made as tough and athletic plays as DA has, (not as many because he hasn't played as much) and threw good blocks when on the LOS and from the Hback position.  No, I do not think that DA is $6.5 million per year better than Doyle.

 

As far as Fleener, the only thing that he does not do as well or better than either Allen or Doyle is block and get YAC (if the defense is in front of him).  With Allen on the bench and no viable alternative until Doyle showed up this year, Fleener had to perform Allen's role of blocker.  Someone said that Pep's offense held DA back, yet, apparently, the same person didn't say that it held Fleener back.  Instead, it was Fleener's lack of talent that held him back.  Seems like a double standard to me whereby the person is looking at the situation in a way to simply support a player they like over the other, for whatever reason that might be.

 

Again, the Colts do not "know Allen is better than Fleener".  What they know, as does everybody, is that Allen gets tougher YAC with the defense in front of him than Fleener does, which will be called upon more in Chud's offense than the TE getting YAC with the defense behind him.  So DA's skills are suited to the offense moreso than Fleener's.  Just like some RBs are picked for their pass blocking and catching skills and others are inserted for their downhill running prowess.  One RB is not "better than the other".

 

And comparing stats is useless.  Especially if the lighter pass catching RB is forced to do more downhill running because the intended downhill runner is injured a lot.  Or, the downhill runner gets wide open and has a better YPC because nobody expects him to be in the pattern.

 

[BOTT]

11 hours ago, DougDew said:

This thread is hilarious.  As expected it deteriorates into Allen vs Fleener...why?...because of race.  Yup...it always has.  And the fault lies with the Allen lovers.  Allen lovers just have blinders on, and always have to compare him to Fleener and make false assumption that Fleener is weak and drops passes. 

 

Allen is who he is, his stats are what they are, because of him and him alone.  Fleener was targeted more not because he's Fleener, but because he was the better receiving target in the Colts offense.

 

Fleener's value to the Saints has nothing to do with Allen's value to the Colts.  NEITHER is worth $7 mill per year.  I wish they were both gone because neither is a complete TE, and one has always been hurt anyway.  If Allen sticks to his pattern of being a diva baby riding the bench, we're starting Doyle beginning week 5 anyway, so there is no point in signing Allen.

 

You always manage to being some weird % into the conversation.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

14 hours ago, DougDew said:

This thread is hilarious.  As expected it deteriorates into Allen vs Fleener...why?...because of race.  Yup...it always has.  And the fault lies with the Allen lovers.  Allen lovers just have blinders on, and always have to compare him to Fleener and make false assumption that Fleener is weak and drops passes. 

 

Allen is who he is, his stats are what they are, because of him and him alone.  Fleener was targeted more not because he's Fleener, but because he was the better receiving target in the Colts offense.

 

Fleener's value to the Saints has nothing to do with Allen's value to the Colts.  NEITHER is worth $7 mill per year.  I wish they were both gone because neither is a complete TE, and one has always been hurt anyway.  If Allen sticks to his pattern of being a diva baby riding the bench, we're starting Doyle beginning week 5 anyway, so there is no point in signing Allen.

 

 

10 hours ago, DougDew said:

Fleener was drafted in the second and DA the third in the same draft.  Why?  Because the Colts wanted a two TE offense and wanted TEs that were different from each other to accomplish two different goals.  If they wanted a one-TE offense, they would have drafted either DA or Coby in the early rounds and a backup in the later rounds or signed a vet FA.

 

This forum has consistently compared the two with each other, which is wrong.  people consistently support one and not the other, as if DA and Fleener were competing with each other for the same position and the same kind of playing time.  They don't.  The only reason Fleener played DAs role over the years is because DA was hurt, forcing Fleener to downshift into playing a role he is not suited for.

 

I'd rather have DA on the team over Fleener because I prefer Dorsett as the 3rd receiver rather than Coby split into the slot.  DA is more of the short yardage possession TE...which is what he was drafted to do and why he lasted until the third.....its not as valuable of a role as the seam splitting TE that Fleener was supposed to do...but didn't do as much as he should have since he had to fulfill DA's role frequently over the years.

 

Doyle is the same kind of TE as DA.  Both play H back occasionally. If you want to compare two players to each other, compare them.

 

Dopes should stop injecting Fleener into a DA thread, which they do because of the OUTWARD appearances of the two, and fail to even make a thought about what roles they play.

 

Its not my prejudices, its others'.  I've never compared Fleener and DA unless someone makes stupid comments, and those comments are usually directed towards Fleener for some reason.....

Jesus Christ 

[King Colt]

Fleener went to the Saints, not a great loss.

[ColtsLegacy]

14 hours ago, BOTT said:

You always manage to being some weird % into the conversation.

 

He can't help it, he's just telling it how it is . . .

[ColtsLegacy]

19 hours ago, DougDew said:

Both Allen and Doyle have a limited body of work. Many of the highlights shown on the you-tube video were from his rookie year.   Allen's rookie year was a while ago, under a different and better OC, got targeted because Fleener struggled to see the ball and catch it, and Reggie was a beast that drew attention.  There are a lot of differences in the situation he had in his rookie year and what he has had during the time he shared with Doyle.  When in the game and called upon, Doyle made as tough and athletic plays as DA has, (not as many because he hasn't played as much) and threw good blocks when on the LOS and from the Hback position.  No, I do not think that DA is $6.5 million per year better than Doyle.

 

As far as Fleener, the only thing that he does not do as well or better than either Allen or Doyle is block and get YAC (if the defense is in front of him).  With Allen on the bench and no viable alternative until Doyle showed up this year, Fleener had to perform Allen's role of blocker.  Someone said that Pep's offense held DA back, yet, apparently, the same person didn't say that it held Fleener back.  Instead, it was Fleener's lack of talent that held him back.  Seems like a double standard to me whereby the person is looking at the situation in a way to simply support a player they like over the other, for whatever reason that might be.

 

Again, the Colts do not "know Allen is better than Fleener".  What they know, as does everybody, is that Allen gets tougher YAC with the defense in front of him than Fleener does, which will be called upon more in Chud's offense than the TE getting YAC with the defense behind him.  So DA's skills are suited to the offense moreso than Fleener's.  Just like some RBs are picked for their pass blocking and catching skills and others are inserted for their downhill running prowess.  One RB is not "better than the other".

 

And comparing stats is useless.  Especially if the lighter pass catching RB is forced to do more downhill running because the intended downhill runner is injured a lot.  Or, the downhill runner gets wide open and has a better YPC because nobody expects him to be in the pattern.

 

 

Yes, they do know Allen is better. They know better than anyone else. Health is key, though, and is really the only reason this conversation exist.

 

Please, though, continue to undersell Allen and pump your nonsense Jack Doyle narrative . Nobody with any actual knowledge of the situation is buying .

[DougDew]

56 minutes ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

Yes, they do know Allen is better. They know better than anyone else. Health is key, though, and is really the only reason this conversation exist.

 

Please, though, continue to undersell Allen and pump your nonsense Jack Doyle narrative . Nobody with any actual knowledge of the situation is buying .

Tis the time to fight back against bias.

[ColtsLegacy]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Tis the time to fight back against bias.

 

Yeah, you really should try.

[DougDew]

21 minutes ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

Yeah, you really should try.

There is the concept of receiving TE and blocking TE.  If the Colts had more use for a receiving TE, Fleener would be here and Allen would not.  Bullheadedness in favor of one player "over" another is a sign of bias.

 

And if the Colts had more use for a "receiving" RB, they'd be looking for the next Joseph Addai instead of the Ballard/Gore types.

 

Its common football knowledge.  Other things known by football people is the science of physiology.  Narrow-hipped and narrow based players are easier to tackle than wider hipped wider based players.  Fleener goes down easily because he is a narrow guy.  But yet, biased people will continuously say year after year that he lacks "toughness"   and doesn't  "fight" for extra yards.  He probably knows by experience that he has little success trying, and trying his hardest for extra yards just keeps himself at risk of having the ball stripped.  

 

His problem is rooted in science, not "toughness" 

 

Maroons...

 

[ColtsLegacy]

36 minutes ago, DougDew said:

There is the concept of receiving TE and blocking TE.  If the Colts had more use for a receiving TE, Fleener would be here and Allen would not.  Bullheadedness in favor of one player "over" another is a sign of bias.

 

And if the Colts had more use for a "receiving" RB, they'd be looking for the next Joseph Addai instead of the Ballard/Gore types.

 

Its common football knowledge.  Other things known by football people is the science of physiology.  Narrow-hipped and narrow based players are easier to tackle than wider hipped wider based players.  Fleener goes down easily because he is a narrow guy.  But yet, biased people will continuously say year after year that he lacks "toughness"   and doesn't  "fight" for extra yards.  He probably knows by experience that he has little success trying, and trying his hardest for extra yards just keeps himself at risk of having the ball stripped.  

 

His problem is rooted in science, not "toughness" 

 

Maroons...

 

 

Would you mind repeating this 600 more times? I can repeat myself too. In a vacuum, Fleener is the better receiving TE and Allen the better blocker. In reality, when live bullets are flying, Allen is better at both. 

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

Would you mind repeating this 600 more times? I can repeat myself too. In a vacuum, Fleener is the better receiving TE and Allen the better blocker. In reality, when live bullets are flying, Allen is better at both. 

Repeat yourself 601 times.

 

And that's not even the topic of our argument...Its is WHY you think he is better at both, and even introduced the term "better".  I offer explanations for my position.  You show a highlight reel of about 15 plays over 4 years.

[ColtsLegacy]

50 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Repeat yourself 601 times.

 

And that's not even the topic of our argument...Its is WHY you think he is better at both, and even introduced the term "better".  I offer explanations for my position.  You show a highlight reel of about 15 plays over 4 years.

 

Seriously? I've given my reasons maybe 20 times in this thread. I know you like repeating yourself but I'm done.

 

As for your reasoning, it's flawed, erroneous. You want to put people in categories. Fleener is tall, thin, and "fast" so he's a better receiver. Allen is small, thick, and "slow" so he's a lesser receiver.

 

And J.Doyle rules!

[CanuckColtsFan]

After watching those highlights I'm feeling a little better about the money. It's just the production and health concerns. You think he would have come a bit cheaper.

[DougDew]

3 hours ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

Seriously? I've given my reasons maybe 20 times in this thread. I know you like repeating yourself but I'm done.

 

As for your reasoning, it's flawed, erroneous. You want to put people in categories. Fleener is tall, thin, and "fast" so he's a better receiver. Allen is small, thick, and "slow" so he's a lesser receiver.

 

And J.Doyle rules!

Well, scouts look for "receiving" TEs who are either fast enough to beat a LB or tall enough to play over a Safety.  Fleener is both.  Since the Saints use at least one TE for that purpose, that's why they signed Fleener.  Sean Payton will likely use him better than Pep. 

 

DA is neither faster than most LBs or (much) taller than most safeties, which is why he has to engage in contested catches (when he's not wide open on screen plays or just running to a wide open space in the zone because the defenders are focused on TY and Reggie). 

 

I have to repeat myself so much because you still don't seem to understand.

 

If you want more education on the concept of narrow base and having poorer balance, , its a good time of the year to read scouting reports.  The term "narrow base" is used to describe players........ generally in a negative way.  Except it doesn't hurt  the receiver positions, because the idea is that good receivers are supposed to be put into routes where they are running free with the defenders catching them, as opposed to good blocking TEs who are likely going to be running routes where they have to  barreli over defenders.

 

Unless of course, the diva TE that is supposed to be the one barreling over defenders is on the bench. "untoughly" nursing a boo boo, and the receiver TE is forced to run the shorter routes and barrel over people...and look bad doing it because he's tall and thin......but keeps doing it game after game without ever having a boo boo.

 

I certainly don't think JDoyle is "better" than anyone, but about $500K per year, he's a very good deal..   I'd like to spend the extra $6.5 million towards an EDGE, G, or CB, but I guess some think that using that money to have  DA be the 4th receiver option on the field gets us closer to the SB.  I simply think otherwise.

 

This thread has been fun.  I hope DA gets $6.5 million worth of wide open zone first downs and 15 yard TDs more than Doyle or any other TE we could have signed for vet minimum. 

 

Take care.