MNF- Bills vs Pats

[ReMeDy]

Only way the Patriots lose a game is if Brady gets injured and I don't want that happen but I can guarantee you this I bet when Andrew Luck got injured 90% of that classless fan base was giddy and calling it karma for what happened regarding DeflateGate. Which is sad really. I just know from reading Posts over at ESPN. I did say 90% so I didn't say all Pats fans before any Pats fan gets on here to dispute what I just said.

 

Well, Pats fans were booing when a Buffalo player was hobbling off the field, so I must agree with you.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Well, Pats fans were booing when a Buffalo player was hobbling off the field, so I must agree with you.

Yeah I have read so many Posts over at ESPN on GameThreads and just NFL Topics in general and most Patriots fans were happy that Andrew went down and are just giddy about the Ravens problems as well. This Revenge Tour stuff is the most hilarious thing I have ever read too, revenge for what? They were the one's that cheated. Not only that Brady didn't even get in trouble so I don't get the Revenge stuff??

[our_dbs_rock]

Lol.

He isn't wrong.

 

He knows the rules and is very honest in his assessments.

 

You just figured out why Patriots fans are in denial about their team cheating.....they don't even know the rules!

[bluebombers87]

well he is wrong . . . check my last post #74.

Wait seriously? You can't even admit that the Pats got a break? You seriously have so much homerism for the Pats you can't acknowledge they got some help from the zebras? Every team gets it from time to time. It's okay to admit it but it's childish to try and say an expert in his field is wrong because it goes against your almighty patriots.

[ReMeDy]

I am going to eat crow on one of the referee complaints I had -- Sammy Watkins going out of bounds did in fact end the game, because he was falling backwards. Even though he wasn't touched, if a player falls backwards out of bounds, the clock keeps running. I didn't know that.

[bluebombers87]

I am going to eat crow on one of the referee complaints I had -- Sammy Watkins going out of bounds did in fact end the game, because he was falling backwards. Even though he wasn't touched, if a player falls backwards out of bounds, the clock keeps running. I didn't know that.

Do you have a link to that? Both Mike P. and Jim Daopoulos say the clock should have stopped.

Edit* Also Mike Garafolo agrees clock should've stopped.

[amfootball]

Happy to get the win last night. Rex Ryan really called a great game defensively. Never let the Pats get comfortable. Losing Dobson and Amendola for sure killed the offense but they did enough to come through.

 

Very impressed with Pats defense. It is clear that this team will need to rely on them to win given the offensive injuries and they are up to the challenge. Butler has become a true lock down corner and Ryan is a solid #2 corner. Just love the front 7 and the pressure they can generate. With Collins back for Denver game, they should be able to wreak havoc all night on Brock.

 

Was also great to see the STs contribute with a huge fumble to help the Pats extend the lead.

 

So 10-0. Just awesome.

[amfootball]

Did I read that right?... This is the Patriots 13th 10-0 season in a row?

No. It is their 13th season with double digit wins.    An NFL record.

[amfootball]

I honestly don't care anymore. I hate that whole team.

 

Brady's got the money, the rings, you name it. He can go get some nice health care treatment and spend time with what I'm sure is a nice family.

 

I can then enjoy a stress-free NFL season of not needing to worry about the Patriots getting another ring and everyone crowning them as the best ever and having to hear about how awesome they are constantly and needing to know every second of the guy's personal life and him putting up pictures of himself watching football at home on Facebook being a big deal and hearing how Bruschi's the king of defense and how Belichick can outsmart every world leader on the stage and how they're the best ever and we should end the NFL and make a shrine of the Patriots because that's how awesome they are.

 

Everyone wins.

Wow. Might be time to do something else on Sundays.

[jszfunk]

I thought the Bills played them well. Got a heavy rush and covered them short.  Brady was getting hit and frustrated...he does not like getting his clothes dirty I guess.

[amfootball]

Pats are now ranked as the #2 scoring offense and #1 defense for points allowed.

[Cynjin]

well he is wrong . . . check my last post #74.

Actually, it is you that is wrong about that play.

[King Colt]

"What If"...What would the national rhetoric be today had Buffalo gone on to win last night with the inadvertent whistle mistake voiding the Pat undefeated status?

Also, what if that mistake was made on the last play of the game with the Pats trailing by 5 points? Would the NFL call it "just one of those things", or run the play over?

Side Note: One of the many reason NE is so good we saw last night with the lack of reaction to the mistake. Had that went against Buffalo Rex Ryan would have had to be put in chains and removed from the field.

[hawkeyes]

The officiating just keeps getting worse and worse ... and the media had all the sheep believing the replacements were bad.  

 

Kraft gets another win.

[coltsfeva]

Happy to get the win last night. Rex Ryan really called a great game defensively. Never let the Pats get comfortable. Losing Dobson and Amendola for sure killed the offense but they did enough to come through.

 

Very impressed with Pats defense. It is clear that this team will need to rely on them to win given the offensive injuries and they are up to the challenge. Butler has become a true lock down corner and Ryan is a solid #2 corner. Just love the front 7 and the pressure they can generate. With Collins back for Denver game, they should be able to wreak havoc all night on Brock.

 

Was also great to see the STs contribute with a huge fumble to help the Pats extend the lead.

 

So 10-0. Just awesome.

  Before tonight's game, I thought the Pats would go 16-0 or 15-1. With Edleman, Amendola and Dobson out. I'm not so sure. I think this might be the week the Pats go down. The Bills showed how the Pats could be beat (get in Brady's face, cover and tackle well) on defense but did not have enough on offense to get it done. The Broncos, Steelers, Bengals and yes, the Colts all have good enough defenses and offenses to get it done.

  Look, you seem like a rational person, but you have to understand one thing: it's only natural for fans of other teams get tired of successes of another team that wins consistently. And there is no doubt the Pats are having a great season. But when you add some of the shady things the Pats have done over the years to get an advantage, it adds fuel to the fire. 

 All sorts of questions arise: did they cheat to win in 2001, 2003 and 2004? If they win it this year, so be it. But to me, it just doesn't seem right. The Pats are banged up now and are beatable. Maybe the fact they look unbeatable and end up getting beat in the playoffs would be the best thing other NFL fans could hope for.

 Finally, although Pat fans would argue Brady as the G.O.A.T., the lack of integrity disqualifies him from the discussion  in many people's eyes, because you can't say he played the game it was supposed to be played. 

[ViriLudant]

The Pats at Gillette get all the calls, including that nonsense "inadvertent whistle" deal....didn't everyone know this? If the Pats get home field in the playoffs (which they will) the only chance for anyone to beat them is in the SB. What I'd give to see a regular season matchup vs the Cards right about now. Or any other NFC top tier team, bc the AFC is Pats and everyone else currently

Wait, WHAT?! The Patriots were the victims of that call, not the beneficiary.

Amendola had a clear path for a TD. Instead, it was a 14 point swing the other way .

[ViriLudant]

Actually, it is you that is wrong about that play.

See Remedy's post. You're wrong.

[ViriLudant]

Before tonight's game, I thought the Pats would go 16-0 or 15-1. With Edleman, Amendola and Dobson out. I'm not so sure. I think this might be the week the Pats go down. The Bills showed how the Pats could be beat (get in Brady's face, cover and tackle well) on defense but did not have enough on offense to get it done. The Broncos, Steelers, Bengals and yes, the Colts all have good enough defenses and offenses to get it done.

Look, you seem like a rational person, but you have to understand one thing: it's only natural for fans of other teams get tired of successes of another team that wins consistently. And there is no doubt the Pats are having a great season. But when you add some of the shady things the Pats have done over the years to get an advantage, it adds fuel to the fire.

All sorts of questions arise: did they cheat to win in 2001, 2003 and 2004? If they win it this year, so be it. But to me, it just doesn't seem right. The Pats are banged up now and are beatable. Maybe the fact they look unbeatable and end up getting beat in the playoffs would be the best thing other NFL fans could hope for.

Finally, although Pat fans would argue Brady as the G.O.A.T., the lack of integrity disqualifies him from the discussion in many people's eyes, because you can't say he played the game it was supposed to be played.

Seriously.

More people who didn't follow DFG.

Brady was innocent; the science has already been posted to prove it.

[Gramz]

There seems to be an awful lot of this going on........

 

[ricker182]

Wait, WHAT?! The Patriots were the victims of that call, not the beneficiary.

Amendola had a clear path for a TD. Instead, it was a 14 point swing the other way .

There was a safety back still and the defender froze when he heard the whistle. Idk if it would have been a touchdown.

[ricker182]

Seriously.

More people who didn't follow DFG.

Brady was innocent; the science has already been posted to prove it.

"science"

[ViriLudant]

There was a safety back still and the defender froze when he heard the whistle. Idk if it would have been a touchdown.

Gronk was on that safety. Pretty sure he would have thrown him out of the club for Danny.

[Yehoodi]

That's not true at all.

 

He didn't give himself up. That's the only way he can be ruled down.

You can literally roll around on the field and not get touched and it isn't a dead ball.

 

Why are you making things up? They were going to win anyway.

 

It was a blown call.

 

 

Folks the side judge on the field made the correct call per the NFL rules.   Specifically, the rule covering when a play (ball) is declared dead and the play is over.  The NFL rule in question is Rule 7 Section 2 Article 1 subpart (e).

 

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/10_Rule7_BallInPlay_DeadBall_Scrimm.pdf 

 

Short answer:  

 

A player may declare himself down thereby ending the play by going to the ground while making no attempt to advance the ball.  It basically has the same effect as being down by contact.  As this occurred in the field of play (the player’s butt hit inbounds before he rolled out of bounds) the play is over at that point and most critically is over inbounds and therefore the clock runs.

 

Similar plays are when a defender picks off the ball at the end of the game and goes to the ground, a player takes a knee on a kick off, a runner gets a first down at the end of game and goes to the ground so the team can take a knee to end the game, etc.

 

Long answer:

 

Yes there are many experts on TV and watching the game, but there is one on the field, specifically the side judge, and he made the correct call and could see the entire play.

 

The rule in question, link above, deals with when is the ball is declared dead and thus the play is over.  It is Rule 7 of the NFL rule book and includes things that most folks are familiar with: down by contact (a), forward progress (b), a player slides (d), incomplete pass (g), a QB taking a knee ©, a touchdown (l), etc.   

 

The one we are concerned with is when a player unilaterally declares himself down, which is subpart (e).

Rule 7, Section 2, Article 1, subpart (e ) reads in pertinent part as follows:

 

. . . the ball (and play) is deemed dead when . . .

 

(e ) when a runner is out of bounds, or declares himself down by falling to the ground, or kneeling, and making no effort to advance:

 

Here we are concerned with the second part of the part (e).   Specifically, going to the ground while making no effort to advance the ball.

Here the player came back to the ball and made no effort to turn up field to advance the ball.  This makes sense as he knew the game clock was running out and he wanted to kill the play as soon as possible as he knew he could not score and wanted his offense to get another play.  Which is fine, admirable, and frankly the correct move.   

 

However, there is a problem for him, he went to the ground before being able to get out of bounds.  Unfortunately, the play is dead once he hits the ground with his butt.  At that point he had fulfill the elements of the second part of part e:  hitting the ground while making no effect to advance the ball.  

 

The play is blown dead and what happens after that point is not relevant and cannot retroactivity control the play.  Therefore his subsequent rolling out of bounds is not relevant to stop the clock.  Football is a sequential sport and things are look to in order.   When a play is dead its dead. 

 

Perhaps many of you have seen a more common version of this concept when a player loses control of the ball after scoring a touchdown.  Once the player breaks the plane of the end zone with the ball the play is dead (subpart (l) of the rule), it’s a touchdown and even if he subsequently loses control of the ball, or its knocked out by a defender, it does not retroactively effect a dead play, it is still a touchdown.

 

Similarly as the ball and play was dead once his button hits the ground, his subsequent touching the out of bounds is not relevant.  He is down in bounds and the clock will continue to run.    

 

Bottom line, everybody knows the receiver was trying to kill the play, he caught the ball near the  48 yard line and proceeded to fall backwards and his butt hit the 47 yard marker before going out of bounds, he is therefore down per the rule and the play is dead at that point and clock correctly so should continue to run.

 

NOTE: sorry for the font changes, I wrote the post in Word and when I cut and paste the fonts went crazy.

[ViriLudant]

"science"

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/2015/11/06/deflategate-class-scientists-let-the-air-out-the-nfl/FNKRK137LUi8LtkUoGwxLL/story.html

Game.

Set.

Match.

Note the date on the story .

[Yehoodi]

Actually, it is you that is wrong about that play.

 

Sorry, I am not wrong.  Please see my post #103 for further explanation on the rule that covers the play.

 

Note: I drafted the post in Word and when I cut and paste the fonts went crazy, sorry.

[Yehoodi]

Wait seriously? You can't even admit that the Pats got a break? You seriously have so much homerism for the Pats you can't acknowledge they got some help from the zebras? Every team gets it from time to time. It's okay to admit it but it's childish to try and say an expert in his field is wrong because it goes against your almighty patriots.

 

Please see my post #103 on the rule that governs the play.  As a note, the fonts are a little crazy as I drafted it in Word then cut and pasted it to my post.

[jvan1973]

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/2015/11/06/deflategate-class-scientists-let-the-air-out-the-nfl/FNKRK137LUi8LtkUoGwxLL/story.html

Game.

Set.

Match.

Note the date on the story .

I don't click on your links. They usually contain falsehoods. I'll just go with the fact the pats don't have a 1st rounder this year and lacking a 4th next year.

[Yehoodi]

I am going to eat crow on one of the referee complaints I had -- Sammy Watkins going out of bounds did in fact end the game, because he was falling backwards. Even though he wasn't touched, if a player falls backwards out of bounds, the clock keeps running. I didn't know that.

 

Correct.  I just read your post after drafting my longer version of the play (post #103).    

[coltsfeva]

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/2015/11/06/deflategate-class-scientists-let-the-air-out-the-nfl/FNKRK137LUi8LtkUoGwxLL/story.html

Game.

Set.

Match.

Note the date on the story .

Interesting reading. All it proves is that is was possible the balls deflated by natural means. It doesn't explain Brady's getting rid of his cell phone or the equipment guy going into the bathroom with the balls. It also doesn't vindicate the Pats for past indiscretions. Maybe Brady and the Pats were totally innocent of a rule violation here, maybe not. The bigger picture is not just an incident, but a culture of cheating that will be forever linked to the Pats.

[Surge89]

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/2015/11/06/deflategate-class-scientists-let-the-air-out-the-nfl/FNKRK137LUi8LtkUoGwxLL/story.html

Game.

Set.

Match.

Note the date on the story .

Except that putting a ball in a bucket of water doesn't prove anything as you are over exposing the leather to water to skew the mass of the football.

Also it may shock you to know that the ideal gas law is just a mathematic formula and not a very hard one at that. Do the math yourself and you will find that in order for that claim to be true the temperature outside would have had to been below 5 degrees or the inside temperature higher than 95. If either of those cases are correct than I'll gladly stay quiet. But alas I'm wasting my energy.

Also I've been in my share of college science classes. If we ever were going to address something in the media, the calculations are done first before physical interaction. It's called postulating a hypothesis to form theory and then proving. So I highly doubt this article is true unless the schools in NH do things differently than the rest of the world.

[ViriLudant]

Interesting reading. All it proves is that is was possible the balls deflated by natural means. It doesn't explain Brady's getting rid of his cell phone or the equipment guy going into the bathroom with the balls. It also doesn't vindicate the Pats for past indiscretions. Maybe Brady and the Pats were totally innocent of a rule violation here, maybe not. The bigger picture is not just an incident, but a culture of cheating that will be forever linked to the Pats.

A culture that is a figment of peoples' imagination .

Spygate? Your one argument. And as BB said, he misinterpreted the league memo on video recording location.

That's it.

Yep, a culture of cheating. LOL.

[ViriLudant]

Except that putting a ball in a bucket of water doesn't prove anything as you are over exposing the leather to water to skew the mass of the football.

Also it may shock you to know that the ideal gas law is just a mathematic formula and not a very hard one at that. Do the math yourself and you will find that in order for that claim to be true the temperature outside would have had to been below 5 degrees or the inside temperature higher than 95. If either of those cases are correct than I'll gladly stay quiet. But alas I'm wasting my energy.

Also I've been in my share of college science classes. If we ever were going to address something in the media, the calculations are done first before physical interaction. It's called postulating a hypothesis to form theory and then proving. So I highly doubt this article is true unless the schools in NH do things differently than the rest of the world.

It was an MIT professor.

Thanks for reading it that closely.

Oh, and he is an Eagles fan, so let's eliminate that bias argument, too.

[Surge89]

It was an MIT professor.

Thanks for reading it that closely.

Oh, and he is an Eagles fan, so let's eliminate that bias argument, too.

I struggled to think an MIT professor would make that mistake. And on NH I was talking about colleges accepting that as normal practice. So highly doubt the validity of that article. But thank you for reading my post that closely.

[Gramz]

Yep, a culture of cheating. 

Finally....... you agree.  

[King Colt]

Why did the Pats score with only seconds left in the first half? With the Pats leading at halftime in their home stadium they are 74-0, that's why!

[dw49]

It was an MIT professor.

Thanks for reading it that closely.

Oh, and he is an Eagles fan, so let's eliminate that bias argument, too.

 

 

Yeah just like you read links you post about degrading Peyton Manning. But wait.. maybe you did read it and just didn't get it ? 

[Gramz]

A culture that is a figment of peoples' imagination .

Spygate? Your one argument. And as BB said, he misinterpreted the league memo on video recording location.

That's it.

 

I find it hard to believe that Patriot fans actually believe Bellichick's line about misinterpreting the league memo.

 

Bill is a very smart man.  He didn't misinterpret anything.  He thought he had found a loophole.  The NFL didn't agree.

 

Too bad last night's  game ended with a W for the Patriots, but it was fun to see Brady not have the type of protection he is accustomed to getting.  

 

Which reminds me . . . remember how so many like to put Peyton down for saying there were some protection issues?

 

Well, what do you think Brady was doing when he threw his tantrum on the sideline???

 

I doubt he was saying . . . guys this is all on me and I'm really angry at myself.  So allow me a few minutes to express my disgust at myself.

[Cynjin]

See Remedy's post. You're wrong.

That poster is also incorrect. That only would be correct if you believed that the receiver was trying to give himself up and not, the more obvious, just trying to get out of bounds before getting touched.

[2006Coltsbestever]

No. It is their 13th season with double digit wins.    An NFL record.

13 straight, pretty impressive. The Colts have won 10 or more games too 14 times in the last 16 seasons. Only in 2001 and 2011 they didn't do so since 1999.

[amfootball]

  Before tonight's game, I thought the Pats would go 16-0 or 15-1. With Edleman, Amendola and Dobson out. I'm not so sure. I think this might be the week the Pats go down. The Bills showed how the Pats could be beat (get in Brady's face, cover and tackle well) on defense but did not have enough on offense to get it done. The Broncos, Steelers, Bengals and yes, the Colts all have good enough defenses and offenses to get it done.

  Look, you seem like a rational person, but you have to understand one thing: it's only natural for fans of other teams get tired of successes of another team that wins consistently. And there is no doubt the Pats are having a great season. But when you add some of the shady things the Pats have done over the years to get an advantage, it adds fuel to the fire. 

 All sorts of questions arise: did they cheat to win in 2001, 2003 and 2004? If they win it this year, so be it. But to me, it just doesn't seem right. The Pats are banged up now and are beatable. Maybe the fact they look unbeatable and end up getting beat in the playoffs would be the best thing other NFL fans could hope for.

 Finally, although Pat fans would argue Brady as the G.O.A.T., the lack of integrity disqualifies him from the discussion  in many people's eyes, because you can't say he played the game it was supposed to be played. 

I am over the undefeated season. I just want this team to be healthy come Jan. Last night's game was a huge step in securing the division and also HFA as now they have a 2 game lead. They are 10-0 and 16-0 would be sweet but I am fine if they concede games at the end to be ready come playoffs.

 

I am very well aware of how the Pats are viewed outside of NE. I get that other fanbases are tired of all the winning. I would be too probably if I was them but honestly I don't really care either. People can view them however they want. Last year was the cherry on top IMO of this historic run, getting the 4th title and Brady securing his 3rd SB MVP. Whatever happens this year is just gravy on top IMO. We are a truly blessed fanbase being able to witness this team for a decade and a half and still going. I am enjoying every moment of this season and living in the present which has been great. This team is finding all sorts of ways to win which has been maybe the most enjoyable part.