The Pep Hamilton thread [Mega-merge]

[kycoltsfan]

I dislike Pep as much as the next guy, but you people give him WAY too much credit.

  

People put way too much blame on the coaches for the 'game plan', when it is Luck out there deciding to throw 3 long bombs in a row, Luck that decides to call the run play(and not audible) right into an obviously lining up full D blitz, etc..   It is Luck that makes the decisions at the line.  The coaches on the sidelines only can do so much for the way the game is played.  It is up to the QB as to HOW the game if played and managed.

 

The fact is that Luck is terrible at managing the team at the line, horrible at making adjustments, and pretty much non-existent at reading the defense. 

 

Luck has non of that 'game smarts' that Peyton had and it is the single biggest weakness the colts have. Luck needs some major training and coaching to either develop those smarts or no matter who the OC is, he will never be anything but very average QB with a better than average arm.

 

Great QB's need those 'game smarts', and without it, no matter how good your arm is, you will never amount to much.
 

[IndyD4U]

And what do you know TENN HAS FIRED THIER HC why the hell don't we make moves!!

 Because we're waiting until "The Sheriff" humiliates us at home.

[texascolt]

The play calling is as much the fault of Pags as Pep. When play calling is bad and not working, he

needs to tell Pep what type plays to call.

If Pags doesn't know (he needs to be fired, of course we all know that)at least find a source who dose

know, someone like Grigs

[DougDew]

I get that he struggles to read defences but the playcalls aren't helping Mh has the advantage of seeing everything lol I'll give him that. Luck needs this playbook dumbed down for his sake or he needs to be able to escape the pocket to throw like Wilson does in Seattle. I'm talking about designed plays where your qb runs to the right or left to pass instead of him taking that snap under center

Oh I agree, the coaches need to recognize the personnel and coach to its strengths and avoid the weaknesses. I blame the coaches for Luck not expanding his game after 4 years.

[Coffeedrinker]

Two things stand out. First,almost the entire pass route tree is downfield. No short passes, rubs, etc. That being said, Andrew missed almost every chance to hit that lone check down receiver and instead went time and again for the home run. So, a bad scheme combined with a QB who is in love with the big play and forcing it into coverage vs taking what is there. Not good.

It's not that there are no short passes... there are the thing I've noticed is they don't attack between the hashes with multiple options often enough.  Watch the endzone cam on the 4th quarter pass to Hilton (when Norman made that incredible play)... all receiving options are between the hash marks and the sideline.  Time was a factor but it wasn't so critical that everyone had to be ready to go OB. 

[Track Guy]

There's plenty of blame to go around for our 3-5 start. I'm not trying to spare anyone. I'm not saying that Grigson is off the hook, Pagano, Luck, or anyone else isn't deserving of some criticism this season. But there are some things that just give me the feeling the biggest problem with the offense is the poor scheme/play calling. 

 

First off... I do believe Luck's injuries have effected his play. I think it would be naive to completely dismiss that, but at the same time some of Luck's problems have been mental rather than physical. His accuracy is down from the past 2 years - sure - but he really gets himself into trouble by holding on to the football for a long time and ultimately throwing the ball into traffic downfield. 

 

Why does this happen?

 

Two reasons. First, Luck needs to take what the defense gives him more and throw to the check down sometimes. Now that that's out of the way, the other problem... The receivers aren't getting as much separation as they should. Why is this? We run a dry, stale offense with little creativity. Where is the play action? Why aren't there more crossing routes (like the Patriots love)? Speaking of the Patriots... Watch the throws Brady makes in their games. He isn't trying to fit the ball through a window very often. He just finds the open man and makes an easy, uncontested throw to them. That's the bread and butter of a passing attack - or at least a good one.

 

The offensive line has had it's bad spots, especially the early season guard play. That was atrocious. And Costanzo overall has been having a down year so far. But we demand a lot of this offensive line. Perhaps too much? Again, where's the play action passing game? Designed roll out plays would help these big fellas out too. And if we can get Luck plays where he gets rid of the ball quicker, the pass blocking becomes less of a problem. 

 

But here's the real scary part. Look at the way we've started games. We're always spotting teams points and playing from behind - which is a disadvantage. Ask Aaron "the best QB in the NFL according to most of this board" Rodgers and his 77 yards against the Bronco defense the other day (which is the defense we're about to go up against next week). 

 

Check out Luck's QB rating by quarter this season. Through his 6 starts his QB rating in the first quarter is 35.1! That is absolutely atrocious. We've seen no ability to game plan on offense. When they take the training wheels off in the 4th quarter and we're already so far behind that we can abandon the game plan the offense ironically looks way better. As a result, Luck's QB rating in the 4th quarter is 93.3. That's right. His QB rating in the 4th quarter is actually in line with his QB rating in the 4th quarter in seasons past. He's also thrown more 1st down passes (40) in the 4th quarter of games this season that he has in quarters 1 - 3 of this season combined (39).

 

Like I said before, I don't mean to absolve Grigson of blame (we still lack a pass rush, have a shoddy secondary, and don't exactly have a great O-line). I don't mean to say that Luck hasn't regressed - he has - he's been less accurate of a passer and made questionable decisions in his own right. I don't mean to say the O-line has been awesome - they haven't - but they have improved since the lineup switch and could be more effective with a better scheme. It's the scheme and game planning that seem to be the squeakiest wheel that needs the most grease. And I assume that starts with the OC. 

[csmopar]

By no means am I disregarding lucks turnovers but the playcalling his atrocious. It lacks creativity and fans at home can telegraph what kind of plays the colts are going to run. Execution is a factor in our losses but 90% of the plays are horrible. Peps called rollouts, split back formations, formations in which he moves the line to protect the qb in lucks absence. Since Andrew has come back has anyone seen any of those playcalls? And idk how many times I call it per game in which we suck first 3 qtrs then with 8 MINUTES LEFT IN THE GAME WE DECIDE TO GO HURRY UP AND SWITCH THE PLAYCALLING. Then after we get within winning the basic playcalling comes right back out or for instance luck has a turnover. We can see that luck is confused so why doesn't the coach or playcaller dumb it down for him & help him get back to his fundementals?? Idk if you guys noticed during the game luck was great passing the ball whenever he RAN OUT OF THE POCKET so why the hell are we keeping him in there?! Andddd yes this is another."Fire Pep" rant because well uh I want him fired

You are correct my friend.  Playcalling is dumb, throwing deep passes when you just need 3-5 yards.....

[RockThatBlue]

I really love that stupid, slow developing, draw play that we run out of the shotgun that just literally wastes a down each and every time.

Oh god yes, that play makes me cringe. Has that play ever worked?

[RockThatBlue]

Because we're waiting until "The Sheriff" humiliates us at home.

Peyton getting the colts coach fired. Wouldn't that be a story line.

[will426]

Lol one other thing I noticed is a lot of our routes there are recievers so closed within the vicinity ? Why are routed being ran so close smh

[jseg18]

A lot of what you said is true. I believe that's why 12 loved Wayne. He ran those comeback to the outsides, and he was also good at stopping in between zone coverages. I'd like to know how many times Luck does a 2-3 step drop back when under center. It seems like he does 5-7 step drop backs.

[OLD FAN MAN]

my prediction , after we face wade phillips defense and the offense has its worse game of the year, we will have a new oc for the next game

[NewEra]

I dislike Pep as much as the next guy, but you people give him WAY too much credit.

People put way too much blame on the coaches for the 'game plan', when it is Luck out there deciding to throw 3 long bombs in a row, Luck that decides to call the run play(and not audible) right into an obviously lining up full D blitz, etc.. It is Luck that makes the decisions at the line. The coaches on the sidelines only can do so much for the way the game is played. It is up to the QB as to HOW the game if played and managed.

The fact is that Luck is terrible at managing the team at the line, horrible at making adjustments, and pretty much non-existent at reading the defense.

Luck has non of that 'game smarts' that Peyton had and it is the single biggest weakness the colts have. Luck needs some major training and coaching to either develop those smarts or no matter who the OC is, he will never be anything but very average QB with a better than average arm.

Great QB's need those 'game smarts', and without it, no matter how good your arm is, you will never amount to much.

Isn't that the job of the coaching staff to coach up your qb or reel him in when needed?

[21isSuperman]

There's plenty of blame to go around for our 3-5 start. I'm not trying to spare anyone. I'm not saying that Grigson is off the hook, Pagano, Luck, or anyone else isn't deserving of some criticism this season. But there are some things that just give me the feeling the biggest problem with the offense is the poor scheme/play calling. 

 

First off... I do believe Luck's injuries have effected his play. I think it would be naive to completely dismiss that, but at the same time some of Luck's problems have been mental rather than physical. His accuracy is down from the past 2 years - sure - but he really gets himself into trouble by holding on to the football for a long time and ultimately throwing the ball into traffic downfield. 

 

Why does this happen?

 

Two reasons. First, Luck needs to take what the defense gives him more and throw to the check down sometimes. Now that that's out of the way, the other problem... The receivers aren't getting as much separation as they should. Why is this? We run a dry, stale offense with little creativity. Where is the play action? Why aren't there more crossing routes (like the Patriots love)? Speaking of the Patriots... Watch the throws Brady makes in their games. He isn't trying to fit the ball through a window very often. He just finds the open man and makes an easy, uncontested throw to them. That's the bread and butter of a passing attack - or at least a good one.

 

The offensive line has had it's bad spots, especially the early season guard play. That was atrocious. And Costanzo overall has been having a down year so far. But we demand a lot of this offensive line. Perhaps too much? Again, where's the play action passing game? Designed roll out plays would help these big fellas out too. And if we can get Luck plays where he gets rid of the ball quicker, the pass blocking becomes less of a problem. 

 

But here's the real scary part. Look at the way we've started games. We're always spotting teams points and playing from behind - which is a disadvantage. Ask Aaron "the best QB in the NFL according to most of this board" Rodgers and his 77 yards against the Bronco defense the other day (which is the defense we're about to go up against next week). 

 

Check out Luck's QB rating by quarter this season. Through his 6 starts his QB rating in the first quarter is 35.1! That is absolutely atrocious. We've seen no ability to game plan on offense. When they take the training wheels off in the 4th quarter and we're already so far behind that we can abandon the game plan the offense ironically looks way better. As a result, Luck's QB rating in the 4th quarter is 93.3. That's right. His QB rating in the 4th quarter is actually in line with his QB rating in the 4th quarter in seasons past. He's also thrown more 1st down passes (40) in the 4th quarter of games this season that he has in quarters 1 - 3 of this season combined (39).

 

Like I said before, I don't mean to absolve Grigson of blame (we still lack a pass rush, have a shoddy secondary, and don't exactly have a great O-line). I don't mean to say that Luck hasn't regressed - he has - he's been less accurate of a passer and made questionable decisions in his own right. I don't mean to say the O-line has been awesome - they haven't - but they have improved since the lineup switch and could be more effective with a better scheme. It's the scheme and game planning that seem to be the squeakiest wheel that needs the most grease. And I assume that starts with the OC. 

 

 

By no means am I disregarding lucks turnovers but the playcalling his atrocious. It lacks creativity and fans at home can telegraph what kind of plays the colts are going to run. Execution is a factor in our losses but 90% of the plays are horrible. Peps called rollouts, split back formations, formations in which he moves the line to protect the qb in lucks absence. Since Andrew has come back has anyone seen any of those playcalls? And idk how many times I call it per game in which we suck first 3 qtrs then with 8 MINUTES LEFT IN THE GAME WE DECIDE TO GO HURRY UP AND SWITCH THE PLAYCALLING. Then after we get within winning the basic playcalling comes right back out or for instance luck has a turnover. We can see that luck is confused so why doesn't the coach or playcaller dumb it down for him & help him get back to his fundementals?? Idk if you guys noticed during the game luck was great passing the ball whenever he RAN OUT OF THE POCKET so why the hell are we keeping him in there?! Andddd yes this is another."Fire Pep" rant because well uh I want him fired

Merged your threads with the existing Pep Hamilton one.

 

Also, gonna sticky this thread so everyone can see it

[Narcosys]

The fail here is epic

 

Thank you for that insightful post and rebuttal, i will take your opinions into account next time I post my observations.

[Mameluc]

double post

[Mameluc]

It's all connected. Its WR not winning battles, its some bad offense scheme (IMO but i might be wrong on this ) but it is also LUck.

 

Above everything is Luck.

 

Andi dont blame him, he is kinda broken right now he needs the season to finish already before he burns out IMO. 

[NewEra]

Fire pep! Fire pep! Fire pep! Fire pep!

[RockThatBlue]

Fire pep! Fire pep! Fire pep! Fire pep!

Yeah, I'm pretty upset that he still as of this morning is with the colts. He might be a worse OC than Clyde was back in 2011. And Clyde was pretty bad.

[21isSuperman]

Andrew Luck did not forget how to be a good QB overnight.

 

Even without seeing the all-22 tape, it is obvious that our receivers/tight ends are not getting enough separation.

 

When they're not getting separation, the route combinations are so poorly designed that our WRs are clustered together in areas where there are a plethora of CBs, Safeties, and LBs. 

 

Luck is constantly faced with situations where he has to fit the ball into coverage.  While elite QBs can sometimes hit those incredibly difficult throws, no elite QB can do so every time.

 

The offense becomes way too vertically oriented at times, but that's another discussion in and of itself.

 

Are the receivers the problem?  Nope.  The route concepts/combinations in this offense leave me absolutely baffled at times.

 

Certain "staple" routes are completely ignored.  Pep will try 1 screen and if it doesn't work, he quits going to it.

 

There are virtually no designed roll-out passes for Luck.  There aren't enough crossing routes (including shallow crosses), quick ins, quick outs, WR screens, RB screens.

 

Does anyone else notice how Ted Ginn Jr. (not an elite WR - at all; although he has good speed) was wide open on several occasions (thanks to single coverage)?

 

Greg Olsen was also left completely by himself on multiple occasions.  And Newton was put in a position where he could hit those plays because the plays/routes were well designed.

 

This offense, as currently designed, gives Luck almost no "layups." 

 

If the Colts can get a great offensive mind at the helm, I have no doubt that Luck will be able to turn his game around.  This offense needs a major overhaul.

 

The only personnel problem, with respect to the offense, is that there aren't enough quality OL.

 

With the right coordinator, the Colts offense has plenty of weapons at the RB/WR/TE positions.

Merged your thread

[will426]

The things we can blame luck for is missing his recievers nd throwing interceptions. Watch him play though he does not ever look comfortable in the pocket since he's been hit starting from the first game. All honesty I think he's scared and he looks that way his right hand man on castonzo is letting him get blindsided he can barely step up without still taking the hit. And if you still can't tell he's scared to get hit watch every play where a defensive player comes straight at him when passing hell heave it high up regardless of who's there. Anytime he gets afraid he launches the ball high and sometimes we blame the receivers for not catching it but you can clearly see he's high arching his passes and last night he was throwing to 20Ft tall invisible players. Coaches need to MAKE HIM FEEL COMFORTABLE if he's struggling you suppor him not send him back into the damn fire

[will426]

Thanks for the merge super

[NewEra]

Yeah, I'm pretty upset that he still as of this morning is with the colts. He might be a worse OC than Clyde was back in 2011. And Clyde was pretty bad.

By Pagano not making the move to fire Pep or remove him from OC duty he has sealed his fate also. I wanted to keep Pagano. I like him as a man and person but he's not HC material

[RockThatBlue]

The entire offense is terrible. Luck is making terrible mistakes, our WRs are not getting open, the play calling is embarrassingly bad. Gore and Moncrief(at times) are the only good players on offense right now.

[PeterBowman]

The talent is there....AJ is starting to come around some....Gore is on pace for over 1000 yards rushing, the O line is better than last year....just not being utilized to their fullest potential....Lucks brain farts arent helping either.

[NewEra]

Pep needs fired. Chud needs to go over the tape with Luck and ream his behind. Show him to start hitting the short open man. If he don't listen, bench him

[will426]

By Pagano not making the move to fire Pep or remove him from OC duty he has sealed his fate also. I wanted to keep Pagano. I like him as a man and person but he's not HC material

I don't think it's paganos call

[will426]

Pep playcalling is so basic I don't even see Hilton in the slot anymore he plays on the outside like 90% of the time

[NewEra]

I don't think it's paganos call

Well then I would leak it to the media, I would take it to Irsay. I would do something besides sitting back and watch some jv coach ruin my HC job.

[will426]

Well then I would leak it to the media, I would take it to Irsay. I would do something besides sitting back and watch some jv coach ruin my HC job.

100 % agree

[Jason_]

Oh god yes, that play makes me cringe. Has that play ever worked?

 

Yes, last night...think it was 4th quarter and it was 3rd and 8...they ran a delayed draw out of the shotgun and Bradshaw picked up the first down.

[Jason_]

Well then I would leak it to the media, I would take it to Irsay. I would do something besides sitting back and watch some jv coach ruin my HC job.

 

If that is indeed the case, do you think that Irsay would not be aware?  Whatever authority Grigson has was handed to him by Irsay.

[NewEra]

If that is indeed the case, do you think that Irsay would not be aware? Whatever authority Grigson has was handed to him by Irsay.

Then we are in trouble. Cause that would be some real ignorant circumstances to hire a HC then handcuff him and force cordinators on him. As a HC prospect I would never take the job. Irsay needs to stick to the drugs if that were the case

[RockThatBlue]

Yes, last night...think it was 4th quarter and it was 3rd and 8...they ran a delayed draw out of the shotgun and Bradshaw picked up the first down.

That's right. Forgot about that. But more often than not it seems like it doesn't work.

[Duke589]

I still think the "punt" thing threw the whole team off-kilter. Heck, the 7 points we gave them there was kinda the difference in the game.

Pep can figure it out i think. He needs a lil help from players with penalties. Its not all on him. That first drive was perfect. More of that please!

[Leon]

 

Adam Schefter

1 min · Facebook Mentions · 

And so it begins in Indy: Colts have fired offensive coordinator Pep Hamilton, sources tell @MikeWellsNFL and me.

[Track Guy]

 

 

Adam Schefter

1 min · Facebook Mentions · 

And so it begins in Indy: Colts have fired offensive coordinator Pep Hamilton, sources tell @MikeWellsNFL and me.

 

Wow

[Kyle234]

Pep has been FIRED. Wow!

[NewColtsFan]

Below,  we have FOUR separate threads proclaiming Pep is fired.

 

I look forward to them being merged into one.......

 

Hey,  it's just a thought....

[Superman]

Below,  we have FOUR separate threads proclaiming Pep is fired.

 

I look forward to them being merged into one.......

 

Hey,  it's just a thought....

 

Done. Let's move this whole thing over there.

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/41934-update-pep-hamilton-is-fired/