What To Do With The First Overall Pick [Mega-merge]

[BmoreColt]

Im glad all you guys know that this kid Luck can win it all and part the seas, in the future.

Personally I will stick to the guy who we KNOW CAN part the waters, weve seen him do it.

4 more years, 4 more years!!

4 MORE YEARS! 4 MORE YEARS! I like that.

[SilentHill]

IMHO if Luck enters the draft, he will be drafted #1 overall by the Colts. He will be told he has the chance to start if Peyton can't go and that will be enough to get him into town. If Manning can go he starts this year. I think the real problem and or debate starts in 2 years when we are 1/2 way through Luck's contract. It will be the whole Favre / Rodgers awkwardness all over again where GB got slammed by so many for letting Favre go, and look where it got them.. a SB ring and a REALLY good chance at a repeat.

[MSColtsFan]

Manning and Luck will be on the team in 2012..

I agree with you. I think they will be forced to co-exist for at least a year. I see this debate continuing into the 2013 off season.....

[JCPatriot]

By "someone" coming out and telling us to trade the pick, teams will know that we are desperate to get some value for the pick and will try to lowball us.

Not if there are multiple teams that really want the pick. In that situation, there is no incentive to lowball us even if they know our hand is being forced because we will still trade to the highest bidder, and they need to outbid the competition. It they really want the pick, it is not going to make any difference to them if they don't get it because we used it ourselves or if they don't get it because we traded it to a different team. The only way forcing a trade might cause a trade partner to try to lowball us is if there was only one other team that was really interested in obtaining the pick. I don't think that applies here.

[JoKeR]

The premis of this thread is to explain that they cannot co-exist. My opinion is that Manning is the better option. This thread clears up why they cannot co-exist! It is one or the other! I am tired of hearing the dream of having both!

Steve Young has actually been through this situation and he's says draft Luck and keep Manning. Says PM nor AL will like it but tough, its best for the franchise.Golic agreed with him too. Both felt the team didn't really need a full rebuild, just some upgrades and depth to be SB contenders. First time I've ever agreed with Golic about the Colts. Greeny said cut or trade Manning, in true Greeny form.

Hey you dealt Mort so I raise you Steve Young and Mike Golic.lol

[BmoreColt]

Steve Young has actually been through this situation and he's says draft Luck and keep Manning. Golic agreed with him too. Both felt the team didn't really need a full rebuild, just some upgrades and depth. First time I've every agreed with Golic about the Colts. Greeny said cut or trade Manning, in true Greeny form.

Hey you dealt Mort so I raise you Steve Young and Mike Golic.lol

Lol! Almost everyone on the NFL 32 and NFL Live.. said you take both... So you would be like 100 up on me! But I base my opinions on my interpretations of what I see and believe! Lately all those keep both experts are saying cut Manning.

[ConBro]

I am going to clear this topic once and for all, all the Indy faithful who want Luck, typically want Manning as well. Unfortunately that cannot work.. If you tune in to NFL 32, there was Chris Mort putting this issue to rest, and talking about the drama that will unfold this offseason. Mort goes on to say Luck and Manning cannot co-exist, this is not the same situation as Favre and Rodgers, for a multitude of reasons, the placement of the draft pick, the quality of the teams, cap room, and more. I am going to list and explain why Mort was correct, and why I have been saying this all along, that a co-existence is not beneficial for the Colts.

· Now, lets all understand the packers picked 24^th that year, were a playoff team, and were following the best player available trend… If a player who was projected to be a #1 pick falls to your lap at 24, your going to take him! When you take someone at the end of the first or later, if he does not surpass the player in front of him on the depth chart you have the luxury of him sitting and waiting. After all they were a playoff team, the Colts are a two win team!

· That segues to the next topic, the Colts were a two win team. They were playing without the GOAT at QB, but they team was exposed for the lack of talent Manning has covered for many years! This means that if the Colts take Luck, there are only theoretically 6 other draft picks. Typically rounds 1-3 possibly round 4 are starters, the rest are slow contributers and need parts of their game polished. This means the Colts will have at best 3 picks to address the many holes they have, CB. NT. SS. WLB. DE. G. C. WR. These are all positions where the talent that exists is getting old or there frankly isn’t any talent there.

· The Colts also have many veteran players due for new contracts, even with the Rookie wage scale reducing what QB’s make, we are still talking about over $20 million dollars invested in one position! It is a waste of resources, that could be used to retain Mathis/Wayne for Manning’s remaining years. Everyone complained about Kerry Collins getting paid to not contribute (I did not like the signing either) this will be that but for FOUR YEARS! Luck sitting and holding a Clipboard for four years eating up cap space that could go to players that will contribute now and even in the future!

· All indications are Manning is slowly but surely recovering from his neck surgery, with all the articles about him throwing passes with normal Manning like zing within 30 yards. You all know what I am talking about the 80% healed Manning articles. Obviously if Manning isn’t healthy come April it is a no brainer to take Luck. But all indications are Manning is recovering, and when he is healthy, why wouldn’t he finish out the last four years of his contract? He was on pace to break Brett Favre’s consecutive game streak. We are talking about Manning who was the games iron man, who didn’t take big shots, and was smart to get out of the way of big shots and duck when necessary. If healthy he will at a minimum finish out his contract!

· Manning cannot be traded like everyone constantly says. Irsay would have to pay Manning come March his bonus which is $28 Million. Why would Irsay pay Peyton $28 Million and then turn around and trade him? That means Irsay would be paying for what value Peyton would bring to the Colts in a trade. And teams know that to get Manning all they have to do is wait for Manning to be released and they can hope to win over his services. So they aren’t going to rush the issue and give up their entire draft for the next two years, or whatever people think the Colts would get. The only value from a trade the Colts have is trading the rights to the #1 pick for Andrew Luck. That’s where it is said the Colts could get at minimum 3 #1’s and 2 #2’s!

· Manning’s contract is not going to be drastically re-worked to fit he and Luck, because as many say “Manning owes the Colts!” Really? Manning owes the Colts? Manning put this team on the map for the last decade! Manning told Irsay this past offseason, “listen don’t make me the highest paid player in the league, put the pieces around me to win a Super Bowl.” Irsay thought this was nonsense and that he would stick to his own decision to make Manning the highest paid player in the league. Irsay said in the post Manning contract press conference, we finished it, I am done with it, I am not going back to it. Now why would Manning restructure, to fit a young kid on the team, when that doesn’t benefit his quest for Lombardi’s? Would Manning restructure to fit Wayne and Mathis, maybe, maybe if Irsay would go back into the contract. But he will not restructure to fit Luck, yes he is a team player, but he could be outright released, and he knows that. And that may be the better decision for Manning and the team going forward.

· Andrew Luck does not want to sit under Manning, just like Manning does not want to mentor a kid. He wants to win Lombardi’s! The faults of this team are out, Manning is going to be on a quest to take this team to the promise land to show how good he really is! Luck would only hinder that, for all of the above mentioned reasons. Manning could possibly deliver an ultimatum to Irsay, and I think Irsay will side with Manning. All the articles of Archie about how Luck is ready and should play and how Manning agrees and doesn’t want to hinder that are true articles! But believe me, Manning wants Luck to start from day one elsewhere! And Luck doesn’t want to sit under Manning. His post game interview the other night spoke volumes of how he wants to play right away. His tone and body language stood out as someone who was just speaking what he had to, without looking like a Diva before taking an NFL snap! Who would come out and say I don’t want to go to the Colts and sit under Manning that far before the draft? Especially when Manning isn’t quiet 100% right now! That means if he doesn’t fully recover Luck would be burning bridges before even crossing them!

· The problem is by having both, you are kind of playing for the future, but hanging on to the past in Manning, while sort of competing for Super Bowls. Manning is good enough to lead the team back into the playoffs on his own.. But I still see this team as a few players short of getting back to Super Bowl contention. Having Manning around also means veterans will be retained, and this will be a very similar roster to last years. Obviously that doesn’t infuse the team with young or even impactful talent (the problem with this team in the first place), which choosing one or the other would bring. Going for the future and taking Luck in cutting ties with Manning means, freed up cap space to get free agents, and many of the older players leaving the Colts. It means rebuild mode for the next four to five seasons with Luck! Money to pursue free agents and continue to put pieces in place to make Luck successful. Trading the pick means infusing the team with young talent, while keeping some of the current veteran players. So that the team can compete again for Super Bowls, and have a good strong young nucleus of players from all the draft picks post Manning making the transition much smoother for the future QB. You cannot be successful by blending the two together. In conclusion, it is going to be one or the other folks. Having both does not make any sense other than Colts fans dreaming! Peyton will either be a Colt next year or Andrew Luck will be a Colt. To have both would be the most foolish move any Owner/GM could possibly make! I want Peyton as a Colt myself, and the Luck pick traded. Every year there is talent out there at the QB position. His value would help rebuild this team short and long term. Give a better nucleus of talent for the QB to take over post Manning. It’s one or the other folks..

Let me summarize this for you all-- "I'm a better fan", "Manning and Luck CANNOT co-exist because they just..uh... they just can't" and "pretty much it is guaranteed that Manning will be released". I am SO sick of these threads. It's gonna be a LOOOOONG offseason of this garbage.

[ConBro]

Another thing people need to realize is that next season, Peyton will be 36 years old. That's a true test with any QB in the league, as (most) are considered "past their prime" (of 28-30ish). 36 years old BEFORE considering 3 neck surgeries. We do not know if he will be healthy, for one, and in my opinion, he will NOT be playing football when he is 40 years old. Not gonna happen.

I also want to clear something else up; people who are under the impression that "oh, we just fired the Polians! That MUSRT mean that Peyton will be GONE!!"-- listen up. About halfway through this season, Irsay tweeted what basically amounted to "stay faithful, big changes coming". That tells me that the loss in week 17 was not the straw that broke Irsay's back when it came to the Polians. I believe that Irsay had a plan to cut then all along. That tweet, mind you, came LONG before week 15 when we won our first game. Before that game, Irsay said that money was NOT an issue with Peyton, and that if he is healthy to play next year, he WILL be a Colt. ANd this was said when we were "2 games up" in the "Suck for Luck Contest" (what a joke).

I wish other people would look at ALL the facts together before making outreaching theories with tin hats on their heads. Obviously, none of us know for SURE what will happen, but I liker to take EVERYTHING into consideration before just making apocalypitc threads. For the record, I am not trying to sound condescending with this post, swear to God. I am just getting sick of reading the same things said in different words.

[HONESTABE]

Sometimes as a fan you have to take the emotion out of it.

It's a simple decision, never out think the room.

[JoKeR]

Lol! Almost everyone on the NFL 32 and NFL Live.. said you take both... So you would be like 100 up on me! But I base my opinions on my interpretations of what I see and believe! Lately all those keep both experts are saying cut Manning.

Actually I heard all of this on todays show. They are saying cut Manning if there can only be 1 Highlander.

[WSO]

I agree completely.... There is no reason they can't work together and it's looking more and more like that's going to happen... Like you said luck should feel privileged to learn behind someone great for a year or two... Look at Rodgers... Worked out great... But all in all if he is a professional he will do what he has to do... If god forbid you sit behind a future hall of famer... Then make the best of it and learn! But in my opinion we will have both on roster at the start of next season... It's the only play that makes sense

For the 383759385398th time Rodgers was not a #1 overall pick. He was not for good reasons too. He didn't have the best mechanics and Cal wasn't exactly a powerhouse that year.

#1 overall picks have very little flaws, good accuracy, arm strength, mechanics etc. They are the complete package. They don't sit because they are NFL ready from the day they are drafted. I am no expert but I cannot find a single flaw in Lucks mechanics, accuracy etc. He plays in a pro-style offense as well.

Obviously there are some exceptions like a Tim Couch but even comparing Tim Couch to Andrew Luck isn't close.

[WSO]

Eli sat, Rivers sat.

That used to be the way it was all the time.

Honestly I would think any young quarterback would love to learn from Peyton or Brady for a couple years. Not only will you be learning from one of the best but you are going to be taking over a very good offense and not have to rebuild it.

Its a win win really.

Phillip Rivers was not a #1 overall pick. Eli Manning didn't sit his entire rookie season, he came in after they benched Warner.

[DILLIGAFER]

I agree completely.... There is no reason they can't work together and it's looking more and more like that's going to happen... Like you said luck should feel privileged to learn behind someone great for a year or two... Look at Rodgers... Worked out great... But all in all if he is a professional he will do what he has to do... If god forbid you sit behind a future hall of famer... Then make the best of it and learn! But in my opinion we will have both on roster at the start of next season... It's the only play that makes sense

Ok, take this for what its worth. Everyone has heard the recent rants on the subject.. whos the better QB in Green Bay now that Flynn put up ridiculous numbers against the Lions. A back up rookie..

Here is food for thought.. it wasnt that Flynn is that good, its that the team built for Favre/rodgers takeover is that good.

The team was built right, then when rodgers was ready and Favre was done, it was an easy transition.

Dont bring in the argument Rodgers wasnt the #1 draft pick and so on. You cant argue that it didnt work. It did. Look what Flynn did with less than a weeks practice and Rodgers' core.

[Smitto]

Guess what, your article is bolony like all the others. Everyone can guess what's going to happen in the months to come but in reality, knowone knows. The likes of Chris Mortinson, Adam Shefler or Joe Smoe can give opinions all they want but one thing is for sure, they are all crap guesses.

His article makes more sense than what most ppl are saying... how can you carry soooo much money at the QB position while you have a less than average team around you? that doesnt make any sense and irsay knows that... which is probably one of the reasons why irsay fired BP and CP.

[ConBro]

Buy all the hype that your attention can afford. I think he's over-hyped, this whole situation has spun virally out of control and the presence of Luck has become toxic to this organization.

Only a few select people know what really happened behind closed doors that led to the Polian firings. For all we know, that had as much to do with this opportunity to draft a QB that isn't a fraction as good as the guy we have in place.

We just ticked away $4 million (and the opening quarter of our season) on a hack QB, and thats only a fraction of what we will spend on Luck. Funny thing is, we thought Collins was the answer, just like so many think Luck is the second coming of Christ incarnate.

You don't trade away Peyton freaking Manning, ever, you don't do it, ever.

He got injured, for once in his 12 years, he got injured. Now everybody that laughed at the idea of retaining a viable NFL back-up QB through Manning's career is flippin out over an injury because their illusions that Manning was more machine than man, got shattered. It's football, players get told far worse prognosis and bounce back to have great careers.

It makes a great story, thats why people are consuming the B S about Manning potentially never returning, or, never being what he was. They eat it up with a spoon in each hand, like an Ethiopian's first experience with chicken noodle soup.

We have a great shot at winning a SB or two, or three, going forth into the last years of Manning. Yet so many knee-jerking , hyperbole swilling jack-a-ninny's want to rub the creamy salve of Luck on their still open wounds inflicted by a freak storm of a season. Sally forth into the unknown with some kid that hasn't been to an NFL camp yet? Or retain Manning. We got peeps talking about ditching Reggie Wayne, Robert Mathis and even Dwight Freeney to make room for this kid. Are you kidding me with this bull snap?

I think many of our fans, especially the younger ones, have a flawed perception of time and what it truly takes to get to a SB and how frickin special that is. 23 YEARS I waited to see my Colts make an appearance in the SB, a quarter century my friend, I waited. It was like a profound experience for me. I felt on top of the world. We still have most of what we had to get there, Polian's excluded. Now folks want to clean house and build for the future when we still have a shot? I thought so many here despised "quiting".....and thats quiting. To rebuild something, first you must tear it down. Away with Manning, Wayne, Freeney and Mathis....heck some dude on ESPN says Luck can turn gatorade into wine. Fire, trade and cut whomever to make room for that empty promise.

Yes, they're getting old.....but they're not over the hill. If any of the aforementioned players went elsewhere, they would be pro-bowlers again and we're gonna sit in our comfy chairs and watch it happen. Because we wanted to replace them with what? QUESTIONMARKS!?!?

Stop listening to what talking heads say and look at what is in hand. A bird in hand......

BTW....I don't hop bandwagons. Colts fan for life, have been since the inception of the Indianapolis Colts. I've seen far worse.

I hope you're not addressing my posts and MY thoughts as to "trading Manning". I have been saying that trading PM is not an option all along, "my friend". I just do not see how people justify in their heads passing on a QB prospect when we are sitting with the #1 pick. When was the last time we had #1? Oh yeah... LAST CENTURY. I would absolutely LOVE to see us win anothr ring (or 3) with Peyton under center, but what is more feasible? Us winning another Super Bowl with a defense that allowed 62 points scored on us by the team that happened to beat us in the LAST Super Bowl we played in, or trade a pick away with the potential heir to Manning, for some rookie CBs and WRs that are supposed to automatically turn us into a SUper Bowl contender NEXT YEAR? C'mon man...

[Smitto]

There is no way on this here planet earth that the #1 pick is going to ride the pine next season--never going to happen. So, either Irsay is going to get a king's ransom for Peyton's services, OR, if he feels that Luck isn't the next franchise QB, he will get as much for him as he can. It's going to be one or the other. A scenario of Luck just sitting on the bench 'learning' from Peyton is a waste of valuable resources and is just plain ol' stupid.

If I were you Colts fans, I'd prepare myself for a new era of Colts football without Peyton Manning, because I believe that is the most likely scenario. Look at it this way-- look how much Cincy got for Carson freakin Palmer. As long as Manning is healthy, I think Irsay could get five or six 1st and 2nd rounders for him.

A trade for peyton will not happen, BUT a trade for Luck could... the colts need to trade down in the draft and i think they will, and with the firing of BP it seems like that is whats going to happen.

[Fx Stryker]

I'm sorry, but Luck isn't ready. You think he is going to be able to match Brees, Brady, Eli, Stafford? You think Andrew is going to put up 5,000 yards, 40+ Tds? I don't care how "NFL Ready" he is.

[ruksak]

Sorry dude, but your gonna lose that bet!

Meh...I'm rich with E-bucks.

I'm not rooting for this to shake out wither way. I just want whats best for our Colts.

[WSO]

I'm sorry, but Luck isn't ready. You think he is going to be able to match Brees, Brady, Eli, Stafford? You think Andrew is going to put up 5,000 yards, 40+ Tds? I don't care how "NFL Ready" he is.

You don't need to throw for 5k yards 40 TDs OR match Brees, Brady etc. to win a Super Bowl. If this was the case the Colts would have won the SB nearly every year with Mannings great play. Unfortunately there are other parts of a team like a defense that needs to be good. To add to that Brady Brees and Stafford did not throw 5k yards and 40 TDs their first year. Neither did Manning. In time Luck could join them but just because he cant put up those #'s doesn't mean he isn't NFL ready.

[Restored]

I will transfer 100 E-bucks to your account if we draft him. Are you willing to match my phony wager?

I thought not.....

I'll match your phony wager and as a matter of fact I'll bet you 100 real dollars we will draft Luck. Care to match?

Didn't think so.....

[WSO]

Ok, take this for what its worth. Everyone has heard the recent rants on the subject.. whos the better QB in Green Bay now that Flynn put up ridiculous numbers against the Lions. A back up rookie..

Here is food for thought.. it wasnt that Flynn is that good, its that the team built for Favre/rodgers takeover is that good.

The team was built right, then when rodgers was ready and Favre was done, it was an easy transition.

Dont bring in the argument Rodgers wasnt the #1 draft pick and so on. You cant argue that it didnt work. It did. Look what Flynn did with less than a weeks practice and Rodgers' core.

Have you ever considered the Lions just suck? Flynn has came into games before, even against the Pats 25th ranked D last year and played well yet still lost. Flynn in no way is better than Rodgers. You can't judge an entire "system" or a "qb" based on one game or even a year. We've seen one hit wonders at QB before.

[IndyTrav]

His article makes more sense than what most ppl are saying... how can you carry soooo much money at the QB position while you have a less than average team around you? that doesnt make any sense and irsay knows that... which is probably one of the reasons why irsay fired BP and CP.

Weve gone over this. If Luck gets the Newton contract. It's like a $5mill cap hit. Having $20mil tied up in 1 regressing DE makes less sense than having the current goat qb and his heir apparent make $23ish mill at the most important position wouldn't you say?

[Fx Stryker]

You don't need to throw for 5k yards 40 TDs OR match Brees, Brady etc. to win a Super Bowl. If this was the case the Colts would have won the SB nearly every year with Mannings great play. Unfortunately there are other parts of a team like a defense that needs to be good. To add to that Brady Brees and Stafford did not throw 5k yards and 40 TDs their first year. Neither did Manning. In time Luck could join them but just because he cant put up those #'s doesn't mean he isn't NFL ready.

With this team he needs to do that. This team can't play with a rookie QB. Unti we build that team it needs to stay Manning. In 3-4 years when Manning is coming close to retirement Luck can take over.

[BmoreColt]

Let me summarize this for you all-- "I'm a better fan", "Manning and Luck CANNOT co-exist because they just..uh... they just can't" and "pretty much it is guaranteed that Manning will be released". I am SO sick of these threads. It's gonna be a LOOOOONG offseason of this garbage.

I said it's one or the other.. Your just blabing on interpreting what I said as if I am proclaiming I am the almighty!

[DILLIGAFER]

Have you ever considered the Lions just suck? Flynn has came into games before, even against the Pats 25th ranked D last year and played well yet still lost. Flynn in no way is better than Rodgers. You can't judge an entire "system" or a "qb" based on one game or even a year. We've seen one hit wonders at QB before.

No, they cant suck that bad. They have a winning record and are in the playoffs.

[Smitto]

Weve gone over this. If Luck gets the Newton contract. It's like a $5mill cap hit. Having $20mil tied up in 1 regressing DE makes less sense than having the current goat qb and his heir apparent make $23ish mill at the most important position wouldn't you say?

Well all signs show Luck is better than newton so im guessing most of his contract is gonna be guaranteed or come as a signing bonus which would still leave the colts spending a bunch of money at the QB position... the colts need to trade down in the draft its plain and simple, Luck is nothing special and thats a fact, whats best for this team now and for the future is trading down.

[BmoreColt]

His article makes more sense than what most ppl are saying... how can you carry soooo much money at the QB position while you have a less than average team around you? that doesnt make any sense and irsay knows that... which is probably one of the reasons why irsay fired BP and CP.

I am glad you see it.

[ruksak]

I hope you're not addressing my posts and MY thoughts as to "trading Manning". I have been saying that trading PM is not an option all along, "my friend". I just do not see how people justify in their heads passing on a QB prospect when we are sitting with the #1 pick. When was the last time we had #1? Oh yeah... LAST CENTURY. I would absolutely LOVE to see us win anothr ring (or 3) with Peyton under center, but what is more feasible? Us winning another Super Bowl with a defense that allowed 62 points scored on us by the team that happened to beat us in the LAST Super Bowl we played in, or trade a pick away with the potential heir to Manning, for some rookie CBs and WRs that are supposed to automatically turn us into a SUper Bowl contender NEXT YEAR? C'mon man...

We lost one player and went from perennial playoff contender to the laughing stock of the NFL, and all we had to do is blink. That same player is back next season. Give him what he needs to get us back! If we take Luck and retain Manning, we have reduced what we could add in the draft to surround Manning by about 200%.

Think about it from Manning's perspective. His winning ways have ironically kept us from drafting inside of the top 20 for many years. He's been dying to get some fresh talent to surround him, to make this a complete team (offense and defense). Now we have a chance, with 3-4 years left in his career, to draft several 1st and 2nd rounders this year and next......and we draft his replacement instead?

Yikes, I dunno about that. If I'm Peyton, thats gonna rub me the wrong way.

[WSO]

No, they cant suck that bad. They have a winning record and are in the playoffs.

I was talking about their defense sorry I should have made it more clear. Their defense is not very good. Drew Brees will explain it a lot better than I can this weekend.

[ruksak]

I'll match your phony wager and as a matter of fact I'll bet you 100 real dollars we will draft Luck. Care to match?

Didn't think so.....

I'll bet you $1 million real dollars that I don't have $100 to bet.

[Restored]

Let me summarize this for you all-- "I'm a better fan", "Manning and Luck CANNOT co-exist because they just..uh... they just can't" and "pretty much it is guaranteed that Manning will be released". I am SO sick of these threads. It's gonna be a LOOOOONG offseason of this garbage.

Completely agree Bro. Its sad that the media has over-hyped a good player in Luck and as someone stated in another thread, the media perception has become so large in the idea that Peyton will be released or traded that they have forgotten what the guy WHO OWNS THE TEAM AND HAS THE ULTIMATE say has said:

-Irsay will keep Peyton and pay him if he's healthy.

-Irsay will draft a good, young QB (Luck)

-Irsay will keep both on the roster and try and transition from Manning to Luck

[WSO]

With this team he needs to do that. This team can't play with a rookie QB. Unti we build that team it needs to stay Manning. In 3-4 years when Manning is coming close to retirement Luck can take over.

How are you so sure this team cannot play with a rookie QB? Or Andrew Luck for that matter? Putting Manning behind center next year doesn't make the Colts a SB contender right away. There are a lot of other holes that need to be addressed and could be better addressed rather than spending 35Million on a QB.

[Restored]

I'll bet you $1 million real dollars that I don't have $100 to bet.

Then don't bet in the first place ;)

I haven't been following your posts closely so I'll personally ask you this. Why do you believe we should/shouldnt take Luck and whats your take on Peyton being with the team? Outright statement would be nice.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Some facts to consider

If Manning is paid the option bonus:

• He is likely a Colt for the bare minimum of two years
  
  • Because trading him after 2012, would create a 28 million cap hit paired with Luck's approximately 5 million cap hit, and the 500k that a young Back up making the minimum would likely earn. which would tie up approximately 28% of the salary cap in the QB position
    
  • Trading him after 2013 would create a 19 million cap hit, paired with Luck's approximate 6 million hit and a young QB would tie up approxmately 21% of the salary cap in the QB position. There is a chance that the salary cap would see a fairly big increase in the 2014 season which could lower the % tied to the QB position based on the new TV deals.
    
  • After 2014, trading Manning, his dead cap space would be 9.6 million, Luck would have around a 7 million cap hit, and a low dollar young QB would have them at around 14% of the cap
    

With that said, if he receives the option bonus, he's a Colt for the very least 2 more years, and more than likely 3 years.

Now that turns to the 28 million gamble:

• We cut ties to Manning, move on with a combination of Luck, Orlovsky, QB3, or Luck, a true vet Back up, and QB3.
  
• Unless he's 95%+ healthy I do not see the option bonus being paid, because if he's forced to retire, the figures in the previous section are coming back into play and that will cause salary cap issues. BIG ISSUES.
  

Actual dollars

• Look at the players we currently have needing deals. Wayne, Mathis, Garcon, Saturday, Diem, Gonzalez, etc.
  
  • Wayne will likely want more $ than he's truly worth
    
  • Mathis & Garcon will likely demand a pretty hefty bonus
    
  • Saturday & Diem & Wayne would likely be signing their final contracts.
    

All of this takes real money.

Considering that in 2011 we paid out 31+ million to Manning & the quarterbacks alone.

Consider that in 2012, if we pay Manning his option bonus, draft & sign Luck, + their base salaries that will be an additional 51 million to just the quarterback position

So in 2 years we would have paid out 82 million to quarterbacks, and 26 million of that didn't see the field in 2011, and 15 million of that likely won't play much in 2012.

That's an awful lot of money and with the needs of this team, it's hard to say that is an efficient use of actual dollars.

Football wise it makes all the sense in the world to keep Manning and have Luck sit for 3 years or so. Financially it doesn't make much sense at all.

It makes football sense that if Manning is healthy it can also make sense to explore trading the pick for a package and stocking positions of need and addressing the QB position at some point down the road.

It also makes football sense that 10-15 years of Luck is more than 3-5 years of Manning, and declining the option bonus can be a good decision whether he's healthy or not.

The next 3 months aren't going to be fun.

[BmoreColt]

Another thing people need to realize is that next season, Peyton will be 36 years old. That's a true test with any QB in the league, as (most) are considered "past their prime" (of 28-30ish). 36 years old BEFORE considering 3 neck surgeries. We do not know if he will be healthy, for one, and in my opinion, he will NOT be playing football when he is 40 years old. Not gonna happen.

I also want to clear something else up; people who are under the impression that "oh, we just fired the Polians! That MUSRT mean that Peyton will be GONE!!"-- listen up. About halfway through this season, Irsay tweeted what basically amounted to "stay faithful, big changes coming". That tells me that the loss in week 17 was not the straw that broke Irsay's back when it came to the Polians. I believe that Irsay had a plan to cut then all along. That tweet, mind you, came LONG before week 15 when we won our first game. Before that game, Irsay said that money was NOT an issue with Peyton, and that if he is healthy to play next year, he WILL be a Colt. ANd this was said when we were "2 games up" in the "Suck for Luck Contest" (what a joke).

I wish other people would look at ALL the facts together before making outreaching theories with tin hats on their heads. Obviously, none of us know for SURE what will happen, but I liker to take EVERYTHING into consideration before just making apocalypitc threads. For the record, I am not trying to sound condescending with this post, swear to God. I am just getting sick of reading the same things said in different words.

Well thats funny, because that's exactly what your little shpeal here has accomplished! Because what you are saying are points I made in here.

[Smitto]

Completely agree Bro. Its sad that the media has over-hyped a good player in Luck and as someone stated in another thread, the media perception has become so large in the idea that Peyton will be released or traded that they have forgotten what the guy WHO OWNS THE TEAM AND HAS THE ULTIMATE say has said:

-Irsay will keep Peyton and pay him if he's healthy.

-Irsay will draft a good, young QB (Luck)

-Irsay will keep both on the roster and try and transition from Manning to Luck

I disagree with that one, all signs show it was BP who was in love with Luck... i cant wait to see the senior bowl and up coming combine and pro days... i personally believe RGIII will be drafted by the colts for the simple fact that he has waaay more upside and brings value with him if the colts trade down.

[ConBro]

Well thats funny, because that's exactly what your little shpeal here has accomplished! Because what you are saying are points I made in here.

Good to hear I'm a funny guy!

[Luck for President]

I believe if the Colts are smart they will go ahead and trade the number one pick to the highest bidder. If it's worth the 5 picks that everyone is saying which is probably correct I mean look what atlanta gave up for Julio Jones then do it. We take those picks and reload our team and hope Peyton can go next year. If he can't sign a veteran to stand in like an Orton (I'm not saying he is our savior or anything like that) then draft a QB next season (BARKLEY). Or invest one of our picks this year that we get through the trade for a QB. I'm just saying if Irsay wants to ride the Manning train and I think all real and loyal Colts fans would love to see 18 suit up and make another go at it then we trade the pick and not worry about all the trouble of having two QBs or cutting Manning. BUT this all hinges on if Manning neck is healthy and he is a 100% ready to go. If not lets draft Luck. What do you guys think?

[bWild]

I am going to clear this topic once and for all, all the Indy faithful who want Luck, typically want Manning as well. Unfortunately that cannot work.. If you tune in to NFL 32, there was Chris Mort putting this issue to rest, and talking about the drama that will unfold this offseason. Mort goes on to say Luck and Manning cannot co-exist, this is not the same situation as Favre and Rodgers, for a multitude of reasons, the placement of the draft pick, the quality of the teams, cap room, and more. I am going to list and explain why Mort was correct, and why I have been saying this all along, that a co-existence is not beneficial for the Colts.

· Now, lets all understand the packers picked 24^th that year, were a playoff team, and were following the best player available trend… If a player who was projected to be a #1 pick falls to your lap at 24, your going to take him! When you take someone at the end of the first or later, if he does not surpass the player in front of him on the depth chart you have the luxury of him sitting and waiting. After all they were a playoff team, the Colts are a two win team!

· That segues to the next topic, the Colts were a two win team. They were playing without the GOAT at QB, but they team was exposed for the lack of talent Manning has covered for many years! This means that if the Colts take Luck, there are only theoretically 6 other draft picks. Typically rounds 1-3 possibly round 4 are starters, the rest are slow contributers and need parts of their game polished. This means the Colts will have at best 3 picks to address the many holes they have, CB. NT. SS. WLB. DE. G. C. WR. These are all positions where the talent that exists is getting old or there frankly isn’t any talent there.

· The Colts also have many veteran players due for new contracts, even with the Rookie wage scale reducing what QB’s make, we are still talking about over $20 million dollars invested in one position! It is a waste of resources, that could be used to retain Mathis/Wayne for Manning’s remaining years. Everyone complained about Kerry Collins getting paid to not contribute (I did not like the signing either) this will be that but for FOUR YEARS! Luck sitting and holding a Clipboard for four years eating up cap space that could go to players that will contribute now and even in the future!

· All indications are Manning is slowly but surely recovering from his neck surgery, with all the articles about him throwing passes with normal Manning like zing within 30 yards. You all know what I am talking about the 80% healed Manning articles. Obviously if Manning isn’t healthy come April it is a no brainer to take Luck. But all indications are Manning is recovering, and when he is healthy, why wouldn’t he finish out the last four years of his contract? He was on pace to break Brett Favre’s consecutive game streak. We are talking about Manning who was the games iron man, who didn’t take big shots, and was smart to get out of the way of big shots and duck when necessary. If healthy he will at a minimum finish out his contract!

· Manning cannot be traded like everyone constantly says. Irsay would have to pay Manning come March his bonus which is $28 Million. Why would Irsay pay Peyton $28 Million and then turn around and trade him? That means Irsay would be paying for what value Peyton would bring to the Colts in a trade. And teams know that to get Manning all they have to do is wait for Manning to be released and they can hope to win over his services. So they aren’t going to rush the issue and give up their entire draft for the next two years, or whatever people think the Colts would get. The only value from a trade the Colts have is trading the rights to the #1 pick for Andrew Luck. That’s where it is said the Colts could get at minimum 3 #1’s and 2 #2’s!

· Manning’s contract is not going to be drastically re-worked to fit he and Luck, because as many say “Manning owes the Colts!” Really? Manning owes the Colts? Manning put this team on the map for the last decade! Manning told Irsay this past offseason, “listen don’t make me the highest paid player in the league, put the pieces around me to win a Super Bowl.” Irsay thought this was nonsense and that he would stick to his own decision to make Manning the highest paid player in the league. Irsay said in the post Manning contract press conference, we finished it, I am done with it, I am not going back to it. Now why would Manning restructure, to fit a young kid on the team, when that doesn’t benefit his quest for Lombardi’s? Would Manning restructure to fit Wayne and Mathis, maybe, maybe if Irsay would go back into the contract. But he will not restructure to fit Luck, yes he is a team player, but he could be outright released, and he knows that. And that may be the better decision for Manning and the team going forward.

· Andrew Luck does not want to sit under Manning, just like Manning does not want to mentor a kid. He wants to win Lombardi’s! The faults of this team are out, Manning is going to be on a quest to take this team to the promise land to show how good he really is! Luck would only hinder that, for all of the above mentioned reasons. Manning could possibly deliver an ultimatum to Irsay, and I think Irsay will side with Manning. All the articles of Archie about how Luck is ready and should play and how Manning agrees and doesn’t want to hinder that are true articles! But believe me, Manning wants Luck to start from day one elsewhere! And Luck doesn’t want to sit under Manning. His post game interview the other night spoke volumes of how he wants to play right away. His tone and body language stood out as someone who was just speaking what he had to, without looking like a Diva before taking an NFL snap! Who would come out and say I don’t want to go to the Colts and sit under Manning that far before the draft? Especially when Manning isn’t quiet 100% right now! That means if he doesn’t fully recover Luck would be burning bridges before even crossing them!

· The problem is by having both, you are kind of playing for the future, but hanging on to the past in Manning, while sort of competing for Super Bowls. Manning is good enough to lead the team back into the playoffs on his own.. But I still see this team as a few players short of getting back to Super Bowl contention. Having Manning around also means veterans will be retained, and this will be a very similar roster to last years. Obviously that doesn’t infuse the team with young or even impactful talent (the problem with this team in the first place), which choosing one or the other would bring. Going for the future and taking Luck in cutting ties with Manning means, freed up cap space to get free agents, and many of the older players leaving the Colts. It means rebuild mode for the next four to five seasons with Luck! Money to pursue free agents and continue to put pieces in place to make Luck successful. Trading the pick means infusing the team with young talent, while keeping some of the current veteran players. So that the team can compete again for Super Bowls, and have a good strong young nucleus of players from all the draft picks post Manning making the transition much smoother for the future QB. You cannot be successful by blending the two together. In conclusion, it is going to be one or the other folks. Having both does not make any sense other than Colts fans dreaming! Peyton will either be a Colt next year or Andrew Luck will be a Colt. To have both would be the most foolish move any Owner/GM could possibly make! I want Peyton as a Colt myself, and the Luck pick traded. Every year there is talent out there at the QB position. His value would help rebuild this team short and long term. Give a better nucleus of talent for the QB to take over post Manning. It’s one or the other folks..

I couldn't have said it any better myself. Well put.

[ruksak]

Then don't bet in the first place ;)

I haven't been following your posts closely so I'll personally ask you this. Why do you believe we should/shouldnt take Luck and whats your take on Peyton being with the team? Outright statement would be nice.

Short and sweet......give Peyton what he's needed for years....a complete team of talented offensive and defensive players through the draft and trades.

Trade the #1 pick to set us up for the next two drafts. Select a promising QB (2nd-3rd round) for a fraction of the price of Luck and ween him into the pro game.

All this is predicated upon Manning being unquestioned in his full recovery. If there is any question to his health....scratch all of the above, draft Luck and hope for the best.

PS: You really should follow my posts closely. I was voted coolest guy on the internet 3 years in a row..