Seahawks Prepared/ready To Move On Without Kam Chancellor

[amfootball]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13607128/seattle-seahawks-set-move-holdout-kam-chancellor

 

Seems the trade talks for Kam are not happening. Seattle is prepared to move on without him But I have to think he shows up this week rather than giving away his game checks.

[Gavin]

Im with the Seahawks on this one, I mean I do believe Kam is a bit underpaid(Based on the pay at his position of course) BUT he just signed a deal he is only 1 year into and quite honestly while he is a good player I don't think he is the difference maker he or many people thinks he is, Hard hitter yes...Difference maker no. Quite honestly I think Bailey winds up putting him out of a job before its all said and done

[SilentHill]

Me too, Kam just signed a 4 year deal last off season, get over it dude. I'm sorry if 28 million isn't enough for you, i'll gladly take it.

[BullsColtsFan1]

Kam needs to get over himself.  If I were the seahawks, I would at least try the trade market.  Why pay a player all this $ and not have him play?  My understanding is, he is not playing?  Or am I wrong?

[Gavin]

Kam needs to get over himself.  If I were the seahawks, I would at least try the trade market.  Why pay a player all this $ and not have him play?  My understanding is, he is not playing?  Or am I wrong?

He is holding out, Not playing. Right

[Dustin]

I always side with the players in holdout situations. Get it while you can.

[12dalegend]

Kam needs to get over himself.  If I were the seahawks, I would at least try the trade market.  Why pay a player all this $ and not have him play?  My understanding is, he is not playing?  Or am I wrong?

If he donʻt suit up he wonʻt get paid, according to the article heʻs sacrificing about $267,000 per game 

[amfootball]

He is holding out, Not playing. Right

Yes. If he does not report this week than he starts forwarding game checks. He has 3 years left on his deal.

I never fault a player for trying to get his money but the rules of the CBA make this a complete lose/lose situation for Kam. He really should just report.

[jvan1973]

He already owes 500k or so in fines for skipping training camp

[BullsColtsFan1]

If he donʻt suit up he wonʻt get paid, according to the article heʻs sacrificing about $267,000 per game 

$267,000 a game? Thats nuts!  I'd take $10,000 a game and be happy!

[Gavin]

I always side with the players in holdout situations. Get it while you can.

I will at times as well but not 1 year into a new deal, Also as I said Kam is a good player but I don't think he is the difference maker he is sometimes made out to be

[chad72]

Im with the Seahawks on this one, I mean I do believe Kam is a bit underpaid(Based on the pay at his position of course) BUT he just signed a deal he is only 1 year into and quite honestly while he is a good player I don't think he is the difference maker he or many people thinks he is, Hard hitter yes...Difference maker no. Quite honestly I think Bailey winds up putting him out of a job before its all said and done

 

He is a difference maker because he dishes out more hits in the middle than Earl Thomas does. When WRs or TEs go down the middle, they worry Earl Thomas catching up to them but not shellacking them like Chancellor does. Seahawks' D plays with discipline in their zones, and the pass rush, front 7 and secondary all play real well in unison.

[Dustin]

If he donʻt suit up he wonʻt get paid, according to the article heʻs sacrificing about $267,000 per game 

 

 

He already owes 500k or so in fines for skipping training camp

 

They never pay those fines. The teams always waive them when the player returns. 

[COLTS449]

Kam's one of the 3 or 4 best strong safeties in the league. If they're done with him we should take a look. But if everything works we'll have Clayton Geathers holding down that spot so maybe not the more I think about it lol.

[Gavin]

He is a difference maker because he dishes out more hits in the middle than Earl Thomas does. When WRs or TEs go down the middle, they worry Earl Thomas catching up to them but not shellacking them like Chancellor does. Seahawks' D plays with discipline in their zones, and the pass rush, front 7 and secondary all play real well in unison.

Cover Safety <----- Hard Hitting Safety

[chad72]

Cover Safety <----- Hard Hitting Safety

It's not that black and white. Kam does have great instincts to be at the right place at the right time to get his INTs too. Yeah, he doesn't have the same speed as Earl but he makes up for it with his instincts and box abilities.

[Gavin]

It's not that black and white. Kam does have great instincts to be at the right place at the right time to get his INTs too. Yeah, he doesn't have the same speed as Earl but he makes up for it with his instincts and box abilities.

Well what I mean is if I have to choose between Earl and Kam its an easy decision for me, Earl without question. I mean I know its not that simple but if Seattle really thought they needed Kam they would pay him whatever his demands were and he would be starting week 1. What Kam brings is more easily replaced as opposed to Earl. Again I think Bailey can replace Kam just fine

[chad72]

Well what I mean is if I have to choose between Earl and Kam its an easy decision for me, Earl without question. I mean I know its not that simple but if Seattle really thought they needed Kam they would pay him whatever his demands were and he would be starting week 1. What Kam brings is more easily replaced as opposed to Earl. Again I think Bailey can replace Kam just fine

 

I think it has more to do with his age and the contracts of the younger guns on D (and QB) around him. They paid Sherman, let Maxwell go, paid Avril and Bennett, paid Earl Thomas and Bobby Wagner, and there is only so much money to go around after paying Russell too.

[dgambill]

He isn't getting moved and they aren't renegotiating...once he misses a few paychecks he will show up and start blowing up guys...but until then this is a big hit to that defense.

[Superman]

I always side with the players in holdout situations. Get it while you can.

 

I think this will be one of those situations where the player can't get it. I don't see Seattle budging.

[esmort]

I hate when players try to hold out on a brand new contract they just signed.  Although I am perfectly happy for him to sit out the season if it hurts the Seattle. 

[ColtRider]

Hard to see Seattle giving in to an already loaded defensive set in front of Kam. Thomas is quite capable, and more than adequate to step up the middle ground. That's the beauty of having too many gifted athletes. Seattle has their share. That's for sure.

[oldunclemark]

His value is very high. But wouldn't they have to cut someone to up his paycheck?

The SeaHawks probably paid a lot of their key guys based on the financial thought that Kam was under long term paper...

I don't know how they can re-do his deal now using money they've already promised to his teammates.

I've got to believe he will understand that and eventually come in and play

[mvbighead]

I hate when players try to hold out on a brand new contract they just signed.  Although I am perfectly happy for him to sit out the season if it hurts the Seattle. 

 

I could be wrong, but really feel like this hold out stems directly from the amount paid to Russell Wilson.  Kam likely sees it as he took one for the team to allow them to retain more of their guys.  Then, the team goes on to send a major chunk towards their QB whom many see as a guy that simply has to make the plays required to not turn the ball over and occasionally take some chances to give his team a chance to win.  So, 5-6 years and a 100+ million vs his 4 years and 28 million, when many are suggesting that he was a major leader and contributor on that defense.

 

I normally won't side with a player 1 year into a brand new deal, but if he did happen to 'take one for the team' so they could retain more players, and they turned around and used that money on 1 guy... I'd have a really hard time with it.  It's not much different than Anquan Boldin taking a very team friendly deal, and having the team turn around and throwing 10-15 million a year at Fitzgerald, while Boldin was getting 5-7.

 

Granted, there are surely differences.  But Boldin at that time was providing roughly 80-90% of the production Fitz was, but he was getting 50% of the pay.

 

All in all, if they shelled out less for Wilson and perhaps retained other players, I doubt his contract is problem.  But instead, he probably feels backhanded by Wilson's deal.  (I am just speculating of course, but it makes the most sense to me given how far he is taking this hold out.)

[Superman]

His value is very high. But wouldn't they have to cut someone to up his paycheck?

 

No, not necessarily. I don't know what his demands are, but they could conceivably give him a raise and/or more guaranteed without increasing his cap hit in 2015. I don't think this is about the money or the cap space. It's about the principle of renegotiating a player contract so soon.

 

They could cut $2-3m off his 2015 cap number with a new deal, depending on how they structured it.

[Superman]

The Seahawks have a bad cap situation, by the way: 

 

2015: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/cap/(less than $400K in cap space, according to Spotrac)

2016: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/cap/2016/(projected $128m cap number, with a cap number expected to be above $150m, and only 35 players under contract; Okung, Mebane, Irvin, Kearse, Sweezy, Ryan, all free agents)

 

It's a good thing they have such a good core of players. Their top ten rivals or bests any other team, and most are under contract next year.

[esmort]

I could be wrong, but really feel like this hold out stems directly from the amount paid to Russell Wilson.  Kam likely sees it as he took one for the team to allow them to retain more of their guys.  Then, the team goes on to send a major chunk towards their QB whom many see as a guy that simply has to make the plays required to not turn the ball over and occasionally take some chances to give his team a chance to win.  So, 5-6 years and a 100+ million vs his 4 years and 28 million, when many are suggesting that he was a major leader and contributor on that defense.

 

I normally won't side with a player 1 year into a brand new deal, but if he did happen to 'take one for the team' so they could retain more players, and they turned around and used that money on 1 guy... I'd have a really hard time with it.  It's not much different than Anquan Boldin taking a very team friendly deal, and having the team turn around and throwing 10-15 million a year at Fitzgerald, while Boldin was getting 5-7.

 

Granted, there are surely differences.  But Boldin at that time was providing roughly 80-90% of the production Fitz was, but he was getting 50% of the pay.

 

All in all, if they shelled out less for Wilson and perhaps retained other players, I doubt his contract is problem.  But instead, he probably feels backhanded by Wilson's deal.  (I am just speculating of course, but it makes the most sense to me given how far he is taking this hold out.)

 

I am not saying I wouldn't be a ticked off if I was Kam, but he knows most players are going to look at it as a business decision and get the most they can; and that salaries would go up ... He should have gambled on himself and played out his contract if he wanted a big payday ... instead he chose the safer route and let the team absorb some of the risk and his contract reflects that.

[Superman]

I am not saying I wouldn't be a ticked off if I was Kam, but he knows most players are going to look at it as a business decision and get the most they can; and that salaries would go up ... He should have gambled on himself and played out his contract if he wanted a big payday ... instead he chose the safer route and let the team absorb some of the risk and his contract reflects that.

 

Or do the Revis. Negotiate player options, take a one year deal if you have to, etc. Five contracts in 8 years. Including 2015, he will have made $84m over the last five years, an average of $16.8m/year. That's playing the game.

 

Most players don't have the leverage or the intestinal fortitude to gamble on themselves like that. 

[ColtRider]

Or do the Revis. Negotiate player options, take a one year deal if you have to, etc. Five contracts in 8 years. Including 2015, he will have made $84m over the last five years, an average of $16.8m/year. That's playing the game.

 

Most players don't have the leverage or the intestinal fortitude to gamble on themselves like that.

That is what's called "hiding" the money, so to speak. And that last sentence should be elected into the "Colts Forum Hall of Fame!", and hung over the contract/cap threads that are worthy of it.

[UKCOLT17]

Yes. If he does not report this week than he starts forwarding game checks. He has 3 years left on his deal.

I never fault a player for trying to get his money but the rules of the CBA make this a complete lose/lose situation for Kam. He really should just report.

Depends how the player sees it if he truly believes he deserves better he won't play and from I have read he only needs to report from week ten for it to count as a year. The problem with that is he's 27 and won't have many years left. By time he contract ends.

[Defjamz26]

I think he just knows that the Defense is the strength of the team and that he's at the center of it.

You give Wilson an insane amount of money to hand the ball off to Lynch, scramble, and occasionally complete a pass but you don't have money to give Cam to enforce the middle of the field and punish people in the box?

I would hold out too. Russell Wilson is the 5th or 6th most important Seahawk, whereas Cam is probably top 3.

[mvbighead]

I am not saying I wouldn't be a ticked off if I was Kam, but he knows most players are going to look at it as a business decision and get the most they can; and that salaries would go up ... He should have gambled on himself and played out his contract if he wanted a big payday ... instead he chose the safer route and let the team absorb some of the risk and his contract reflects that.

 

That's just it though, if he was looking at their team as though it could be a dynasty that could be retained for years to come, a smaller deal can make sense.  But all that goes out the window the moment they throw everything and the kitchen sink at a QB who not everyone agrees is the biggest piece to that puzzle.  Don't get me wrong, RW is extremely important to that team.  But the defense and the ground game carry a major part of that team.

 

All that said, he did sign the deal.  But I do feel that at least some part of this ties to the deal handed to RW.  He's getting a 1/4 of what Wilson got.  If that was me, I'd be pretty miffed too.  However, QBs are constantly getting paid in today's NFL.  Seems the only difference is guaranteed money.

[NewColtsFan]

Or do the Revis. Negotiate player options, take a one year deal if you have to, etc. Five contracts in 8 years. Including 2015, he will have made $84m over the last five years, an average of $16.8m/year. That's playing the game.

 

Most players don't have the leverage or the intestinal fortitude to gamble on themselves like that. 

 

Also,  Revis had the advantage of player corner and not safety.   At corner,  the contact and violence is as small as anywhere on a football field.

 

But at safety,  especially strong safety,  the contact and violence are an integral part of the position.   And Kam is one of the best,  if not THE best at the physical nature of the position.   So, a series of one year contracts carries the inherent risk of injury reducing his value.

 

I'm on the side of Seattle.   Three years left is too many to renegotiate.   And you've noted the long list of players they still have to take care of.    Renegotiate Kam now,  and others will line up to re-do their deal.  

[amfootball]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2563816-kam-chancellor-will-not-play-in-week-1-as-seahawks-safety-continues-holdout

 

Carroll said Kam is NOT playing Sunday. Wow. This is huge.

 

According to Kam, he feels the sides are not far apart. Feels Seattle is being petty and says sides are $1 mil apart and that he wants his money from 2017 moved to 2016. No additional money in 2015. Kam said he does not want to wait until he is almost 30 to get this done. Seattle does not want to do it and set this precedent for other players.

 

Also in terms of Kam's impact:

Chancellor is our third-highest ranked safety entering 2015 in terms of PFF rating, at 88.6. There are a few NFL safeties who are better against the run, and a few who are better in coverage, but it’s hard to find any who are better at both. Only Eric Weddle, Will Hill and Chancellor have PFF ratings above 85 in both run defense and coverage among safeties.

[chad72]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2563816-kam-chancellor-will-not-play-in-week-1-as-seahawks-safety-continues-holdout

 

Carroll said Kam is NOT playing Sunday. Wow. This is huge.

 

According to Kam, he feels the sides are not far apart. Feels Seattle is being petty and says sides are $1 mil apart and that he wants his money from 2017 moved to 2016. No additional money in 2015. Kam said he does not want to wait until he is almost 30 to get this done. Seattle does not want to do it and set this precedent for other players.

 

Also in terms of Kam's impact:

Chancellor is our third-highest ranked safety entering 2015 in terms of PFF rating, at 88.6. There are a few NFL safeties who are better against the run, and a few who are better in coverage, but it’s hard to find any who are better at both. Only Eric Weddle, Will Hill and Chancellor have PFF ratings above 85 in both run defense and coverage among safeties.

 

One has to tell this to Gavin who thinks Kam's impact is overrated (j/k). 

[oldunclemark]

ESPN said that they are $900,000 apart...

then its not ALL money, But of course, if Kam sits a couplee of weeks, they can give him his money because he'd have already given it to them, right?