One rule the NFL takes action on.....

[theanarchist]

It just occurred to me. The Patriots are the lawyers of the NFL rules. They're always finding ways to figure loopholes in the rules so they can gain an advantage. After doing so then the rules have to be changed in order to close the loophole. The sad thing is that Bellechick doesn't need this kind of stupidity in order to win. As much as I hate to admit it he's a great football coach. By doing the things that they have done he's done nothing but tarnish his reputation. This won't be the last time he tries to and gets away with skirting the rules.

[amfootball]

MODs - Time to lock this?

[ColtRider]

And you said it right there. It wasn't against the rules. Now it is, but in no way does that mean the Patriots cheated.

 

That's the only real thing that I have trouble accepting about the perception of the team...a lot of the instances that people reference as 'proof' of why they are despicable were, in fact, not against the rules. Yes, they videotapes coaches signals 8 years ago instead of writing them down like everyone else, and there is no defense for that. I get it, and I understand peoples reactions to that situation. But everything else?

 

Saying things like 'the Patriots have a history of cheating' is kind of a little unfair. Spygate happened. Fine. That's an isolated incident that embarassed the team, the front office, and the fans, and unfortunately we have that mark against us. But illegal contact? The snowplow game? Formations that are now illegal but not at the time they used them? Not cheating. So is this 'history of cheating' really just about Spygate still? Because if that's the case then fine, nobody's mind is going to change on that...but one incident should not be used to condemn every single thing people hate about the team going forward. Do they deserve the benefit of the doubt in the minds of most fans? Probably not, but getting one speeding ticket almost a decade ago does not automatically make you a reckless driver forever.

Goodness gracious! " One speeding ticket almost a decade ago does not automatically make you a reckless driver forever."

Most true. However, "many" speeding tickets DO! 2001, 2003, 2004 Super Bowls? SpyGate went on for "how' long?

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

He denied that he got it from them. He said he got it from the NFL and punt formations ...

 

Belichick is not known for his honesty . 

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

MODs - Time to lock this?

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Pretty much. Interesting how all the whining about "spirit of the rule" offenses always seem to come from the teams that the Pats beat up on the most ...

 

According to Roger Goodell & stories I'v read since Belichick took over as coach he has stretched the rules period . The teams have complained very little however the fans have, Unlike yours who are quick to justify & condone anything that results in a patriot win no matter how underhanded it might be this..

 

Says more about New England & there fans and there acceptance of winning at any cost as far as whinners you mean the Superbowl Whinning teams fans ? 

 

Who insist they won fair and square & claim everyone else just has sour grapes no not at all The Patriot Organization has proven you can lie & cheat & it pays off with multiple Lombardi's .

 

A business model only the Patriots can get bye with .

[amfootball]

According to Roger Goodell & stories I'v read since Belichick took over as coach he has stretched the rules period . The teams have complained very little however the fans have, Unlike yours who are quick to justify & condone anything that results in a patriot win no matter how underhanded it might be this..

 

Says more about New England & there fans and there acceptance of winning at any cost as far as whinners you mean the Superbowl Whinning teams fans ? 

 

Who insist they won fair and square & claim everyone else just has sour grapes no not at all The Patriot Organization has proven you can lie & cheat & it pays off with multiple Lombardi's .

 

A business model only the Patriots can get bye with .

I guess that is one way of looking at things ... most sports organizations are looked at as smart and savvy when finding loop holes in the rule book to use to their advantage ... a few folks up here at this board in fact expressed regret that their team did not think of the formations that Bill used ...

 

It would seem to me that the league really ought to hire smarter people as Belichick and his staff always seems to be one step ahead of them to where they have to modify rules after the fact ... a real shame for someone like Harbaugh I would think as not sure how good he can really feel knowing that the three plays that beat him were something that the competition committee should have addressed before last year but C'est la vie.

[DougDew]

Belichick has said in response that this rule will effect spread punt formations .... should be interesting to see when teams get called for penalties on this ....

Translation - "Instead, I now have to look for a way to cheat on punt formations."

[Gramz]

 

 

It would seem to me that the league really ought to hire smarter people as Belichick and his staff always seems to be one step ahead of them to where they have to modify rules after the fact ...

Bank robbers are always one step ahead of the law, until they aren't.

 

Things have a way of catching up...eventually.

[amfootball]

Bank robbers are always one step ahead of the law, until they aren't.

 

Things have a way of catching up...eventually.

Surely you are kidding with this analogy?

[Gramz]

Surely you are kidding with this analogy?

 don't call me Shirley...

[JerodMayo51]

I aslo have a very good friend who is a Giants fan, and he regularly tells me that the New England Patriots are just a bunch of whiny cheaters.

The only people whining are all the teams getting beat by them.

They ran this play 3 times against the Ravens and once against the Colts.. and the Colts after seeing it on film took advantage and it was a huge negative play that killed the Pats drive.

This doesn't matter at all in the grand scheme of things, something like this could really only be used a handful of times and then teams would know how to stop it..

This is literally used in high school and college.. a head coach in high school I know had game tape on 5 different teams that used this type of play last season and they taught 14-18 year olds how to defend against it.. and that was without the refs announcing the it over the loud speaker..

There's a reason Harbaugh has backed off his comments and hasn't championed this since the post game presser.. because he would come across as a whiney little baby more than he already has, which is a characteristic of both Harbaugh brothers when they lose a playoff game.

it's incredible how much in the head of the league Belichick is at this point. I'm sure next year in a critical situation he'll pull another play from his box of tricks and everyone will be freaking out all over again. Of course, nobody said a word about this when the Lions did the same thing earlier in the year, but that's the way it is when you're on top.. everyone will act like little children and try to knock you off the top of the mountain.

This will have zero affect on the Patriots going forward, so it's amusing that so much time and energy is being spent on a play/formation that the Pats used a whopping 4 times in the teams history

Keep on hating though, other than #cameraplacementgate, there are no examples of the Patriots cheating or breaking any rules.. its just the same drivel that is regurgitated going on 8 years now by the same people to try and feel better about losing to the Pats.

[JerodMayo51]

The Patriots organization is defined by dirty tricks, snow plows, football inflation issues, illegal taping. It is celebrated in their own Hall of Fame. Harbaugh has been totally vindicated in this affair. Once again, rules have to be changed because of dishonorable taking advantage of rules. It's not about the Ravens not knowing the rules, or supposedly whining about it, but the refs didn't even know what was going on, which is why things had to be changed. Patriot fans can try to deflect things by bringing up Raven DUI's, but it doesn't hide the fact that this is an asterisk - style organization , that is in the category of the Black Sox , and the East German swimming teams.

Lol its like a favorite past time on this board now to try and apply some sort of imaginary asterisk to everything the Pats accomplish. Now that deflategate looks to vebe all buy deflated,everyone is desperately turning to 3 plays against the Ravens that were 100% within the rules of the game and use that as some sort of example of continued unfair play.

It really is laughable and just makes people look like very sore losers

[JerodMayo51]

They should have the letters "RW:PC" engraved on the rings.

Hey whatever helps you deal with the Pats winning the Super Bowl again is your business

The Lombardi trophy will still shine the same and their SB rings will be blingy and sparkily just the same.

Maybe the Seahawks should have made the play they needed to make to win the SB, but they didn't and the Patriots did, that's why they're the Champs

[JerodMayo51]

I had respect for you're organization until these past few years. After repeatedly hearing about the shady things the Patriots organization does it just wears on perception.

What shady things are those exactly.. seems you have a list of them

So they won a Super Bowl and I think they cheated for it.

lol, how did they cheat to win a SB exactly.. I'd love to hear how they managed to cheat their way to a 4th title

We call you cheaters because you have a history of it. Accept and move on.

wow a whole history of it? Like what exactly.. because from what I can tell people just continue to beat the cameraplacementgate drum over and over again.. its been 8 years, their arms must be exhausted!

At the end of the day it's just a losers mentality. Just like when Polian went kicking and screaming to the league that the Patriots were playing too rough with their receivers, and then the league put a new emphasis and enforcement on the IC and PI penalties, which lead to an offensive explosion in production.. the next year, while Manning was playing arena football during the regular season, the Pats nearly shut them out in the playoffs.. they scored only 3 points and it could have been 0 if Eugene Wilson just holds onto that duck Manning threw to the back of the end zone.

Bruschi's post game quote was poetic..

"You want to keep changing the rules? Go ahead and change them. We'll still play, and we'll win!"

That's the difference between a loser mentality and a champions mentality. Losers sit back, whine and make excuses for why they lost. Winners just go out and get it done.

[southwest1]

I was thinking the same yesterday. It will be interesting to see what other rules will be manipulated by the Pats in the future?

Read this by Tom Curran:

"NFL Taking Aim at All Things Patriots"

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/curran-nfl-taking-aim-all-things-patriots

Best line in the article: "They tricked the refs and tricked the Ravens when they were down 28-14 in the Divisional Playoff and stole the momentum from Baltimore." 

 

Okay, I will admit that nothing in the NFL rules at the time said failing to declare a WR's eligibility was illegal, but like TOC said in post #46 "the refs didn't even know what was going on." It's difficult to execute a clean game even when the referees are blind sided by a maneuver never seen before in the history of the Natl. Football League. 

 

I just am not comfortable when an elite team like the Patriots does that because it cheapens that victory. It just does. I don't care what any NE fan says in defense of that tactic. That move cannot be rationalized or legitimized in my mind. Declaring eligibility is a bedrock principle in sports & when you circumvent that principle I have a HUGE problem with that deliberate act of deception. It's wrong & can never be condoned or endorsed ever. 

 

Football is all about dominating the man across from you. How can both teams be on a level playing field when a guy lines up even though he's essentially inactive? At live game speed, who in the hades is going to think that Edelman would drop back out of a play come on man. It put NE at an enormous advantage because it removed coverage or shifted coverage & left another offensive weapon wide open. You're supposed to beat out your opponent with blocking & crisp route running not simply falling back. 

[ColtRider]

Hey whatever helps you deal with the Pats winning the Super Bowl again is your business

The Lombardi trophy will still shine the same and their SB rings will be blingy and sparkily just the same.

Maybe the Seahawks should have made the play they needed to make to win the SB, but they didn't and the Patriots did, that's why they're the Champs

Quote from Patrick Swayze in the movie "Road House" ... "Opinions vary!"

[Vance]

 I have a HUGE problem with that deliberate act of deception. It's wrong & can never be condoned or endorsed ever. 

 

So you're in favor of eliminating the acts of deception known as the play action pass, the reverse lateral, the boot leg throw, the read option, etc....you must be. That's what you are saying.

[JerodMayo51]

Best line in the article: "They tricked the refs and tricked the Ravens when they were down 28-14 in the Divisional Playoff and stole the momentum from Baltimore."

Okay, I will admit that nothing in the NFL rules at the time said failing to declare a WR's eligibility was illegal, but like TOC said in post #46 "the refs didn't even know what was going on." It's difficult to execute a clean game even when the referees are blind sided by a maneuver never seen before in the history of the Natl. Football League.

I just am not comfortable when an elite team like the Patriots does that because it cheapens that victory. It just does. I don't care what any NE fan says in defense of that tactic. That move cannot be rationalized or legitimized in my mind. Declaring eligibility is a bedrock principle in sports & when you circumvent that principle I have a HUGE problem with that deliberate act of deception. It's wrong & can never be condoned or endorsed ever.

I'd expect better from you sw1.. this has been used before in the league, and you didn't hear so much as a mouse fart over it.

The Lions have used this, the Jets actually used this against the Pats back in 2007, and after the game Belichick even said to him "that was awesome Eric".

It's no different than the wild cat or the read option, or several other forms of deceit, confusion and misdirection that go on in every football game. The refs knew what was going on, they literally announced ovet the loud speaker "number 34 is ineligible. DO NOT COVER 34". They literally said that, while pointing at him!

15 year olds in high school can figure this out and defend it, with less information from the refs than nfl players are getting.

And that's fine if they want to eliminate it,it would be used less than the wild cat is, or triple reverses. But this narrative that people are running with that the Patriots are so big, bad and evil.. and under mine the integrity of the game and are dishonorable because they ran some surprise trick plays that were not against the rules infront of millions of viewers is nothing short of sore losers..

"Look at the big bad bully.. everything they do is wrong and unfair. They can't win without cheating!"

It just really comes across as sad and pathetic.

[JerodMayo51]

This just in: Wide Receivers who are not declared quarterbacks are no longer allowed to pass the ball.

This is deceptive and undermines the integrity of the game!

I wonder how many people have played this sport before.. if you ever complained about these kinds of things out on a football field, you'd get the snot kicked out of you

[Surge89]

What shady things are those exactly.. seems you have a list of them

lol, how did they cheat to win a SB exactly.. I'd love to hear how they managed to cheat their way to a 4th title

wow a whole history of it? Like what exactly.. because from what I can tell people just continue to beat the cameraplacementgate drum over and over again.. its been 8 years, their arms must be exhausted!

At the end of the day it's just a losers mentality. Just like when Polian went kicking and screaming to the league that the Patriots were playing too rough with their receivers, and then the league put a new emphasis and enforcement on the IC and PI penalties, which lead to an offensive explosion in production.. the next year, while Manning was playing arena football during the regular season, the Pats nearly shut them out in the playoffs.. they scored only 3 points and it could have been 0 if Eugene Wilson just holds onto that duck Manning threw to the back of the end zone.

Bruschi's post game quote was poetic..

"You want to keep changing the rules? Go ahead and change them. We'll still play, and we'll win!"

That's the difference between a loser mentality and a champions mentality. Losers sit back, whine and make excuses for why they lost. Winners just go out and get it done.

 

Ah ok so the Patriots haven't tried pushing the envelope until the league changes rules right?  Of course I have no idea what I'm talking about then....

 

#delusional

[JerodMayo51]

Ah ok so the Patriots haven't tried pushing the envelope until the league changes rules right? Of course I have no idea what I'm talking about then....

#delusional

"Pushing" the rules? They tried a trick play 3 times in a game Lol... its been done before in the NFL, College and Highschool levels but then the evil Patriots do it and suddenly the rapture is here and the earth is covered in fire and brimstone

It wasn't against the rules, the Patriots literally told the refs BEFORE THE GAME that they planned on using these types of plays. So this whole " they were tricking the refs and undermining the integrity of the game" is flat out FALSE. Just a blatant lie used to try and paint them in a negative light

The Patriots are the football version of the Yankees. Everyone is sick of them winning, and everything they do is scrutinized and sensationalized under a microscope.

The league and the media will always drive this type of controversy because it generates boat loads of money.

Why do you not hear a peep about the chargers getting caught with stickum this year, or any mention at all of Atlanta pumping crows noise, or the Browns violating rules with using forbidden communications and technologies on the sideline during a game.. or the Panther and Vikings during a game tampering with their footballs, or the Lions running wired plays with ineligible receivers... or all of the players being caught for Peds?

It's because most of those teams are small markets that no one cares about and wouldnt generate the national interest that teams like the pats or cowboys would.

So people ignore all of that, and then point at the Patriots for running some legal trick plays and talk about undermining the integrity of the league.. its a joke

[southwest1]

I'd expect better from you sw1.. this has been used before in the league, and you didn't hear so much as a mouse fart over it.

The Lions have used this, the Jets actually used this against the Pats back in 2007, and after the game Belichick even said to him "that was awesome Eric".

It's no different than the wild cat or the read option, or several other forms of deceit, confusion and misdirection that go on in every football game. The refs knew what was going on, they literally announced ovet the loud speaker "number 34 is ineligible. DO NOT COVER 34". They literally said that, while pointing at him!

15 year olds in high school can figure this out and defend it, with less information from the refs than nfl players are getting.

And that's fine if they want to eliminate it,it would be used less than the wild cat is, or triple reverses. But this narrative that people are running with that the Patriots are so big, bad and evil.. and under mine the integrity of the game and are dishonorable because they ran some surprise trick plays that were not against the rules infront of millions of viewers is nothing short of sore losers..

"Look at the big bad bully.. everything they do is wrong and unfair. They can't win without cheating!"

It just really comes across as sad and pathetic.

Sorry to disappoint you JM51. I never said take your 4th Lombardi Trophy away. Relax. But even when the broadcasters on air where puzzled & perplexed by this tactic, I don't subscribe to the belief that this tactic was as commonplace as you suggest it is.

 

Were Jets & the Lions competing for the divisional round of the playoffs that night? No, they were not. So therefore, that example has no relevance to what we are discussing. Please don't do a bait & switch thank you. This is about the Patriots decision to confuse the Ravens & befuddle the refs. I wouldn't take joy in that actually. 

 

I have to say this: Why do so many NE fans claim that everyone else is a crybaby just because they got burned by the Patriots? It's about winning the right way not gloating over exploited loopholes as Superman states below. 

 

"Look at the big bad bully.. everything they do is wrong and unfair. They can't win without cheating!" It's statements like this that builds resentment among 31 other teams. Does NE ever do anything wrong in your eyes JM51? I mean that as a serious question. Just because someone else points out that this ineligibility tactic borders on violating the spirit of legitimate competition, they automatically foster silent jealousy over Foxboro's winning percentage? Come on JM51. I respect you but that's a lame excuse. I'm sorry. 

 

I defend Bill Belichick & NE a lot you know this, but when I, SW1, raise an eyebrow & call into question what happens on the field we have a serious problem here. 

[Superman]

I love how this topic always devolves into 'everyone is just jealous of the Pats!' All these extremes and all this shouting, and nothing is really being said. It's ridiculous.

 

The Pats used the Vereen play because they wanted to make it difficult for the defense to diagnose who was eligible. That's the whole point of the play. That's not cheating. It's not dirty. But the mechanics of that play did exploit a loophole in the rules. The Competition Committee obviously wanted to close that loophole.

 

It's actually pretty simple. But by all means, continue all the taking of umbrage and reduction to the absurd. That's a good look.

[The Old Crow]

Shall we go through the Ravens history?

I would prefer to go through Baltimore football history including both the Colts and Ravens. It is a much more respected history.

[Vance]

Were Jets & the Lions competing for the divisional round of the playoffs that night? No, they were not. So therefore, that example has no relevance to what we are discussing. Please don't do a bait & switch thank you. This is about the Patriots decision to confuse the Ravens & befuddle the refs. I wouldn't take joy in that actually. 

 

The Jets and the Lions were playing in NFL games weren't they? So it's completely relevant. What are you implying, that it's only okay if the game isn't a playoff game? What ridiculousness. 

 

And in case you didn't know, the offense's entire job is to confuse the defense. Befuddle the refs, are you joking? They knew what was happening.

[The Old Crow]

Pretty much. Interesting how all the whining about "spirit of the rule" offenses always seem to come from the teams that the Pats beat up on the most ...

Your 2-2 against the Ravens in the last 4 playoff games on your own field, hardly a beat down. The last game was won under shady circumstances to boot !

[amfootball]

I would prefer to go through Baltimore football history including both the Colts and Ravens. It is a much more respected history.

Is it? You got the horrible move from Baltimore to Indy that you like to discuss ad nauseam and how wrong the Irsay's were and scum and the city of Baltimore had its politicians in what amounted to one of the ugliest moves in sports history. Then in Baltimore you had a player arrested on two counts of murder plea bargain down to obstruction of justice AND remain on the team and have a statue resurrected in his honor. This same player was accused of using deer antler juice as well to rehab from injury during your SB run in 2012 and then there is Suggs and the bleach, Rice and the elevator and all the arrests this past season for animal cruelty, etc.

 

I get you wanting to discredit the Pats for spygate and all but honestly, to try to play a respect card with the Ravens is a complete joke as underscored by your owner basically saying he has a zero tolerance policy due to all the off-field issues of the players he had/has signed.

[amfootball]

Your 2-2 against the Ravens in the last 4 playoff games on your own field, hardly a beat down. The last game was won under shady circumstances to boot !

Check the overall head to head record of Pats vs Ravens since 2001 ...

 

And last game was won because "your best QB in the game" made a terrible decision and throw at the end to seal the win.

[The Old Crow]

Lol its like a favorite past time on this board now to try and apply some sort of imaginary asterisk to everything the Pats accomplish. Now that deflategate looks to vebe all buy deflated,everyone is desperately turning to 3 plays against the Ravens that were 100% within the rules of the game and use that as some sort of example of continued unfair play.

It really is laughable and just makes people look like very sore losers

I'm not a sore loser at all. The Ravens were not SB material this year, and even had they beaten the Patriots, I'm not sure they would have beaten either the Colts or Seahawks. They overachieved with virtually no secondary, and probably wouldn't have won anyway.

It's funny, certain Pats fans will blast Harbaugh, or Raven DUI's , but when someone points out the voluminous NFL rule changes caused by an organization always on the outer fringes of rules, they chirp for the post to be closed.

It's funny, you don't see the other teams involved in videotaping, equipment malfunctions, or tuck rules. It's seems to be this one team over and over again. Also, I agree with the others. This is not about jealousy about the Patriots, because we've had plenty of success in Baltimore. You can't win every year.

[Gramz]

. Oh the places you will go.

Meanwhile,.....I Can't wait to see what other rules get changed and why.

[southwest1]

The Jets and the Lions were playing in NFL games weren't they? So it's completely relevant. What are you implying, that it's only okay if the game isn't a playoff game? What ridiculousness. 

 

And in case you didn't know, the offense's entire job is to confuse the defense. Befuddle the refs, are you joking? They knew what was happening.

I am implying that neither the Jets or the Lions were competing for a SB at that juncture in the season meaning the stakes were not that high for either the Jets or the Lions given the magnitude of the game being played in 2015 Vance. Ergo, not relevant to the situation at hand. Don't introduce an element that has no validity to the game between the Ravens & Patriots being discussed. It's a shift the debate question as if to offset what NE did. They won yes, but like I said before declaring eligibility is a basic principle in both the NFL & NBA. 

 

Bull crap Vance. The refs had no clue what was unfolding before their eyes & they determine what is or isn't legal on the field of play. Who are you kidding? Players realizing what is being done to them is only half the equation. You know & I know it man. 

[amfootball]

I am implying that neither the Jets or the Lions were competing for a SB at this juncture meaning the stakes were not that high given the magnitude of the game being played in 2015 Vance. Ergo not relevant to the situation at hand. 

 

Bill crap Vance. The refs had no clue what was unfolding before their eyes & they determine what is or isn't legal on the field of play. Who are you kidding? Players realizing what is being done to them is only half the equation. You know & I know it man. 

SW, what game were you watching? The refs were told about the Pats plays before the game prior which is why they did their job 100 percent correct announcing the ineligible players and also telling the Ravens not to cover #34 which was Vereen. The refs were never confused in that game. My gosh, these plays have been run before in the NFL, college and high school ...

[The Old Crow]

Is it? You got the horrible move from Baltimore to Indy that you like to discuss ad nauseam and how wrong the Irsay's were and scum and the city of Baltimore had its politicians in what amounted to one of the ugliest moves in sports history. Then in Baltimore you had a player arrested on two counts of murder plea bargain down to obstruction of justice AND remain on the team and have a statue resurrected in his honor. This same player was accused of using deer antler juice as well to rehab from injury during your SB run in 2012 and then there is Suggs and the bleach, Rice and the elevator and all the arrests this past season for animal cruelty, etc.

I get you wanting to discredit the Pats for spygate and all but honestly, to try to play a respect card with the Ravens is a complete joke as underscored by your owner basically saying he has a zero tolerance policy due to all the off-field issues of the players he had/has signed.

Whether they moved or not, you had four Championships in Baltimore in the Colts era, and two with the Ravens. That is six. If you give Indy the four under the franchise, they have five, and you have four. Both trumps Patriots history.

Kraft and Bellichick picked Hernandez fully

Knowing his schetchy past, and got burned way worse than Lewis or Rice. The tired old argument that they cut him so it's alright , is bogus.

At least the Baltimore owner tried to rectify mistakes, while the NE owner blasts everyone when these dirty tricks come up, to deflect scrutiny.

[dynasty13]

I'm not a sore loser at all. The Ravens were not SB material this year, and even had they beaten the Patriots, I'm not sure they would have beaten either the Colts or Seahawks. They overachieved with virtually no secondary, and probably wouldn't have won anyway.

It's funny, certain Pats fans will blast Harbaugh, or Raven DUI's , but when someone points out the voluminous NFL rule changes caused by an organization always on the outer fringes of rules, they chirp for the post to be closed.

It's funny, you don't see the other teams involved in videotaping, equipment malfunctions, or tuck rules. It's seems to be this one team over and over again. Also, I agree with the others. This is not about jealousy about the Patriots, because we've had plenty of success in Baltimore. You can't win every year.

 

We don't see other teams involved in Tuck Rule? See...this is where some people start to lose credibility in their points. 

 

Seriously though, part of your argument for how the Patriots constantly skirt the rules and flirt with the line of what is allowed is the Tuck Rule???

[The Old Crow]

Check the overall head to head record of Pats vs Ravens since 2001 ...

And last game was won because "your best QB in the game" made a terrible decision and throw at the end to seal the win.

Just like your QB was outplayed by Flacco in three of those four games in your home stadium. He almost made it four for four.

[amfootball]

Whether they moved or not, you had four Championships in Baltimore in the Colts era, and two with the Ravens. That is six. If you give Indy the four under the franchise, they have five, and you have four. Both trumps Patriots history.

Kraft and Bellichick picked Hernandez fully

Knowing his schetchy past, and got burned way worse than Lewis or Rice. The tired old argument that they cut him so it's alright , is bogus.

At least the Baltimore owner tried to rectify mistakes, while the NE owner blasts everyone when these dirty tricks come up, to deflect scrutiny.

So the basis of your argument is championships and not actual history?  Because keeping a player arrested for double murder and resurrecting a statue in his honor upon retirement pretty much takes the cake ...

[jvan1973]

So the basis of your argument is championships and not actual history? Because keeping a player arrested for double murder and resurrecting a statue in his honor upon retirement pretty much takes the cake ...

He was convicted of obstruction of justice

[amfootball]

He was convicted of obstruction of justice

And Hernandez may walk but doesn't matter as he has not been a Patriot for three years now ...

[The Old Crow]

We don't see other teams involved in Tuck Rule? See...this is where some people start to lose credibility in their points.

Seriously though, part of your argument for how the Patriots constantly skirt the rules and flirt with the line of what is allowed is the Tuck Rule???

I just threw that one in there , as you got a nice Jeffrey Maier call in that one that gave you a win, you shouldn't have had.