Patriots being investigated for Deflating footballs.....(Mega Merge)

[jvan1973]

Because it smells like Jim Irsay would be all over this. He has general disdain towards the Pats from their history, has faught to get rule changes and emphasis in place before because of the Pats and had a history of being bit of a bully in his personality.

Like I said, this could be a "careful what you wish for" scenario if the league goes to a standard gameday process were each team has to use fresh factory balls as a result of this.

I'll try to find the article later, but I've heard that there are a few teams that are, and I quote, "livid" with the Colts for sounding the horn on this.

yes, please find that article. I'll hold my breath

[jvan1973]

Yes. If what Brady and Manning fought for in terms of ball prep is revoked, all the QBs will be irate.

you keep bringing this up. before game you can do what you want to the grip of the ball. changing after the inspection is what's in question here.

[Dustin]

Because it smells like Jim Irsay would be all over this. He has general disdain towards the Pats from their history, has faught to get rule changes and emphasis in place before because of the Pats and had a history of being bit of a bully in his personality.

Like I said, this could be a "careful what you wish for" scenario if the league goes to a standard gameday process were each team has to use fresh factory balls as a result of this.

I'll try to find the article later, but I've heard that there are a few teams that are, and I quote, "livid" with the Colts for sounding the horn on this.

If your ability to find sources is on par with your ability to calculate air deflation in footballs, I don't expect to ever see that link.

[bababooey]

you keep bringing this up. before game you can do what you want to the grip of the ball. changing after the inspection is what's in question here.

Exactly. The whole point is they were inspected and marked by the refs, then found to have been tampered with.

 

Please everyone, listen to Mike Francesa's monologue yesterday and get all the facts straight

 

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/01/21/mike-francesa-on-deflate-gate-this-is-a-nightmare-for-the-nfl/

[amfootball]

you keep bringing this up. before game you can do what you want to the grip of the ball. changing after the inspection is what's in question here.

I was responding to Jerod's post on it being revoked. I think the NFL will look at the ball prep and may want to take that away to avoid potential ball violations. Letting players doctor the balls for months means those balls may lose air faster when put into the game. For sure all things will be looked at ...

[dw49]

Free lesson in thermodenamics from a conversation I was having with a good friend who is a biochemical engineer (who is NOT a football or sports fan)

If the balls were filled with warm air at room temp (between 70-80 degrees), they could be at 12.5 psi 2.5 hours before game time (lowest legal psi limit), by the start of kickoff in 50 degree weather they could lose over a full psi of pressure, then when you add in the rain it can add additional weight to the football and also effect the PSI.

That's just the 3 hours from inspection to kick off, then the ball obviously can become more deflated from the rigors of an NFL football game, being landed on by multiple 300lb men, spiked, etc..

This is not some conspiracy, just the laws of thermodynamics can explain this.. if the Colts filled their balls to 13.5 psi (max legal limit) they would lose roughly the same PSI but would still be within regulation.

We know zero details of the investigation, and I find it hard to believe that 11 balls were discovered to be "deflated" since there were several tossed to fans in the crowd

I've also heard that that the NFL doesnt support Mortensens claim of the 11 balls, I also heard that there are 2 teams that are LIVID with the Colts for bringing this up and drawing attention to a practice that is used throughout the league by every starting QB.. Some of which prepare their balls for MONTHS to be to their liking for game day.

This could just as easily backfire on the Colts.. Manning with the support of Brady got the league to allow the use of their own game day balls and it's generally understood that each team has their own, you make your balls the way you like them and we'll make ours the way we like them... its all personal preference, like Rodgers likes to overinflate his balls for a tighter spiral, and the physics of the extra psi actually allow the ball to travel at a higher velocity when he does that.

At the end of the day, the league has to prove that the Pats intentionally tampered with the balls.

 

 

please stop

[bababooey]

I was responding to Jerod's post on it being revoked. I think the NFL will look at the ball prep and may want to take that away to avoid potential ball violations. Letting players doctor the balls for months means those balls may lose air faster when put into the game. For sure all things will be looked at ...

How many more controversial rules are we going to have to create because of the Patriots? Tuck rule, diving at the QB's legs, even hitting the QB, now the NFL has to address custody of the balls after being inspected and approved by the referees.

[JerodMayo51]

But what about the week before? It was a one score game the Pats possibly also cheated in. Perhaps they did or they didn't.

Thats nothing but your own speculation, based on nothing but a general disdain for the Patriots which also makes it very bias

Harbaugh already publicly stated that there were no issues with the balls in the game against the Pats.. and again, playing the unfair advantage angle is so incredibly off the rails when 2 very popular shows that test the physics to support or debunk theories that people have both proved that there couldn't be any advantage between a 11 psi and 12.5 psi football other than a physcological advantage

[ruksak]

Matt Leinart tweeted that ALL Qb's "tamper" with their footballs. Mark Brunell said "19 years and I've never ever heard of this".

 

What are we, as fans, supposed to think? 

[jvan1973]

I was responding to Jerod's post on it being revoked. I think the NFL will look at the ball prep and may want to take that away to avoid potential ball violations. Letting players doctor the balls for months means those balls may lose air faster when put into the game. For sure all things will be looked at ...

it doesn't. how could it? all qbs customize grip. only the patriots balls lose nearly 20% of the air in an hour and a half.

Air was let out of the balls after the inspection. Pretty simple

[OffensivelyPC]

If the balls were filled with warm/hot air at room temperature then they could absolutely lose 1-2 psi in a relatively sshort period of time in 50 degree, rainy weather

lol just stop with this.  There have been far too many experts that have disproved this theory.  Just let it go.  Your friend is wrong, the theory is wrong, and unless you're going to assume all this crap that no one can prove about how the balls were filled with air, then you really have no business saying something like, "we need to let the facts come out." 

[JerodMayo51]

And you do not play with what the league tells you because the league tells you what the PSI of the ball should be.

And the balls were regulation psi when they were inspected before the game.

The question becomes, did the Pats intentionally alter the game balls after the officials inspected them in the 2 hours leading up to the game

[bababooey]

Thats nothing but your own speculation, based on nothing but a general disdain for the Patriots which also makes it very bias

Harbaugh already publicly stated that there were no issues with the balls in the game against the Pats.. and again, playing the unfair advantage angle is so incredibly off the rails when 2 very popular shows that test the physics to support or debunk theories that people have both proved that there couldn't be any advantage between a 11 psi and 12.5 psi football other than a physcological advantage

Why don't you quote the rest of my response so it doesn't appear to be out of context. Like I said. They COULD have cheated considering it was a one score game, also considering they did a week later in a game they didn't need to. My point was that you can't say they didn't deserve to go to the SB. They couldn't beat the pats but they beat the Ravens at home earlier in the year and upsets have happened before in the NFL...

[jvan1973]

Thats nothing but your own speculation, based on nothing but a general disdain for the Patriots which also makes it very bias

Harbaugh already publicly stated that there were no issues with the balls in the game against the Pats.. and again, playing the unfair advantage angle is so incredibly off the rails when 2 very popular shows that test the physics to support or debunk theories that people have both proved that there couldn't be any advantage between a 11 psi and 12.5 psi football other than a physcological advantage

he did not say that. he said he had no interaction with the patriots balls.

And you must not listen to sports radio. Every qb interviewed has said it would make the ball easier to grip and hold onto especially in bad weather

[bababooey]

Matt Leinart tweeted that ALL Qb's "tamper" with their footballs. Mark Brunell said "19 years and I've never ever heard of this".

 

What are we, as fans, supposed to think? 

WFAN's Joe and Evan spoke about this and said they wouldn't consider Leinart an NFL QB. Peter King from SI also called Leinart out on the ridiculousness of it.

[jvan1973]

And the balls were regulation psi when they were inspected before the game.

The question becomes, did the Pats intentionally alter the game balls after the officials inspected them in the 2 hours leading up to the game

the answer is obviously yes

[Yehoodi]

and like I said, what the Pats did was clearly an alteration. What min. And Car. Did was not a clear alteration.

 

Sorry, I bet to differ. 

 

Here is a quote from Dean B.

 

"You can't do anything with the footballs in terms of any artificial, whether you're heating them up, whether it's a regular game ball or kicking ball, you can't do anything to the football," Blandino said. "So that was noticed during the game, both teams were made aware of it during the game and we will certainly remind the clubs as we get into more cold weather games that you can't do anything with the football in terms of heating them up with those sideline heaters."

 

looks like he talking about not altering the ball to me, but I guess you have a different definition of altering.

 

So I ask you this: What rule do you think gave Dean B. the authority to say what happen was against NFL rules?  Furthermore, based on the language in Dean B.'s statement what rule do you think he was referring too?.  Take your time and think for a moment.   Carefully read the manner in which he made his statements and the words that he used and think for a moment what rule might he be referring too.

 

If you do not think that the statement refers to the rule that I referenced and are still somehow can not see the connection between the two, why do you do what you asked me to do.    We know that what happen in that game was against the NFL rules per the statement, and if you do not think its the rule that I referenced, why don't you find me the rule that you think he is referring too.  Find me a link to the rule, just as I provided for you.  Fair enough?  You ask me to do a task as you thought there was no connection, and I found you the rule.  Now why don't you find me the rule that you are talking about that makes this act against NFL rules.

 

I little hint, when a legislative body has a rule that is all encompassing there is more often than not no need to have additional specific rules on the same manner.  And I do not think this particular case requires a more specific rule than the one that I stated.  You apparently do and I will wait for you to provide me with the rule you think Dean B. is talking about in his quote.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/11218/nfl-aware-of-game-ball-incident-during-panthers-vikings

[JerodMayo51]

Uhh, you do realize the Patriots signed Brandon Browner, right? You know, the one who received the harshest suspension of them all?

Yea, they even had to eat his suspension foe the first 4 to 6 games.. every single team has some players that are guilty of something (2 Colts players are facing some very serious allegations right now), but this double standard is what's obvious.. the Seahawks took all their suspensions and moved on, you didn't have mass hysteria leading the way saying that they had a competitive advantage (which they did) and that any of their wins were tainted.

You have people doing the opposite, saying they SYMPATHIZE with them lol.. the Pats are the villain, I get it.. it comes with success and it doesn't help that we have a HC that doesn't come across as very likeable with the media, but thems the breaks

[bababooey]

Brady presser moved to 3:45, unlike 4 pm originally scheduled.

[ruksak]

The question becomes, did the Pats intentionally alter the game balls after the officials inspected them in the 2 hours leading up to the game

[bababooey]

Yea, they even had to eat his suspension foe the first 4 to 6 games.. every single team has some players that are guilty of something (2 Colts players are facing some very serious allegations right now), but this double standard is what's obvious.. the Seahawks took all their suspensions and moved on, you didn't have mass hysteria leading the way saying that they had a competitive advantage (which they did) and that any of their wins were tainted.

You have people doing the opposite, saying they SYMPATHIZE with them lol.. the Pats are the villain, I get it.. it comes with success and it doesn't help that we have a HC that doesn't come across as very likeable with the media, but thems the breaks

Josh McNary's serious allegations is off the field and was dealt with promptly as he was moved to the commissioner's exempt list. Not sure who the second player is that you are referring to.

[bababooey]

I'm telling you guys, Brady is going to take the fall, claim ignorance, get 25K fine, put it behind him, and win next week. Slap on the wrist.

[buccolts]

so you're really running with this unfair advantage that won them the game angle, that's amazing..

I'll give you credit for cobsistency.. physics be damned, burn the Pats at the stake!

I'd be embarassed to try and draw attention away from the fact that Colts got completely outmatched by a vastly superior opponent, with the same convincing result as the last 3 times they played before that.

Ignoring logic and blowing it epicly out of proportion just to justify to yourself in your own mind that the Colts really are the better team, and if not for 1 psi of air pressure in a football, things would have been different!

Let's conveniently ignore the fact that the balls were inflated to regulation at half time and the Patriots continued to pound the Colts to dust, 28-0.

TY Hilton = 1 catch

Reggie Wayne = 0 catches

Moncrief = 0 catches

Nah it couldn't have been the Colts complete lack of effectiveness on offense, combined with tthe Patriots physical running game that was the reason they were blown out, it's those 11 psi footballs!

Just wow.

 

I doubt any of us think that the Colts would have definatly won that game, had it not been for this matter.

 

However, the notion that it COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED, eludes me. Only in that mo can turn the tables drastically, and this matter tips the tables.

 

Also, if I have my rumors straight, it was the Ravens who tipped off the Colts to be aware. Was this, or something else, in play during the Ravens game? That was a much closer game, that could have been tipped, and now the Colts are at home playing the Ravens.

 

Just possible.

[Dustin]

Brady presser moved to 3:45, unlike 4 pm originally scheduled.

Cold weather rescheduled it.

[Clem-Dog]

Lol.. I'll admit I'm not much of a scientist, but my friend went to an ivy league school for chemical engineering and works in a lab making cancer treatment medication..

He absolutely knows what he's talking about, most assuredly more than you.

Can you ask him why the Colts' balls were still within the legal range?

Let's say Andrew likes his fully inflated (13.5 psi), if this is the case, all of the Colts' footballs should have read 11.5 psi at halftime. Since this did not occur, it doesn't take a chemical engineer from an Ivy League school to figure out the elements had nothing to do with it. Nice try though.

Someone from the Pats organization deflated their own balls. Deal with it.

As a Colts fan, never has a loss felt so good, knowing our organization has forever cast a negative light on this cheating franchise. You're welcome.

[OffensivelyPC]

Yea, they even had to eat his suspension foe the first 4 to 6 games.. every single team has some players that are guilty of something (2 Colts players are facing some very serious allegations right now), but this double standard is what's obvious.. the Seahawks took all their suspensions and moved on, you didn't have mass hysteria leading the way saying that they had a competitive advantage (which they did) and that any of their wins were tainted.

You have people doing the opposite, saying they SYMPATHIZE with them lol.. the Pats are the villain, I get it.. it comes with success and it doesn't help that we have a HC that doesn't come across as very likeable with the media, but thems the breaks

There's a difference between institutional level cheating and a couple of players using PEDs.  In one instnace, teh entire franchise is held accountable - which is the case in spygate and should be the case with these deflated footballs.  In the other, we're talking about what players do off the field that no one other than the player (and anyone he tells) can possibly know of.

[bababooey]

As a Colts fan, never has a loss felt so good, knowing our organization has forever cast a negative light on this cheating franchise. You're welcome.

This. A lot of heartache in plenty of these losses over the last 15 years but it feels great knowing the Colts and Jets have ratted them out and destroyed their legacies.

[JerodMayo51]

Your QB may be suspended next week

Not in a million years.

If by some act of God you got your wish, any punishment would be appealed and would not be completed until well after the SB

[bababooey]

Not in a million years.

If by some act of God you got your wish, any punishment would be appealed and would not be completed until well after the SB

 

Which is why it pays to cheat.

[JerodMayo51]

its already been discussed by experts on many platforms. the balls couldn't lose 2 psi in an hour and a half on 40 degree temps. your friend is,wrong

If they were filled with warm/hot air at room temp they absolutely could in only an hour or two

[Yehoodi]

Your perception of the word any doesn't change the definition of the word alter. Warming then is not changing them. If it was wrong then why weren't they punished?

We know people don't think logically when they want to interpret rules for an advantage. By the technical wording it was not altering. Was our dishonest? Sure. But it was not altering. Doesn't matter how you want to perceive it. And you van put them under a heat lamp without directly touching them, just put the whole bag under it. You can argue that warming is not altering if they were keeping them at the same temperature as when they were inflated. If we take your interpretation of it, taking it outside to the cold is considered illegal too because you are physically pouring then someplace that will cause an effect different than its original environment. I'm not saying it's right, just that you can argue the point of the wording.

 

If on a 72 degree day you take the balls out of the 72 degree locker room and keep them in a bag, which for the purposes of this discussion, the footballs stay at 72 degrees.  and nothing is done

 

If on the other hand on a cold day of 12 degrees the balls leave the locker room at 72 degrees and are left in the bag and drop to say 25 degrees.  Then you take the 25 degree ball and warm it to 65 degree.  One has changed the temperature of the ball from 25 to 65 degrees.  What have you done.  You have altered the temperature of the ball.  Not sure how this is being missed.

 

To save typing I will kindly asked you to read my last post to OffensivelyPC (#2313) and let me now what rule do you think Dean B. was referring to in his statement to give him the authority to say what he said.  He uses the language "you can't do anything to the football"  We know that it is against NFL rules to do anything to the football based on his statement.  As he is saying one can not do anything to the football (in referring the Minn/Carl game)  what rule do you think he was referring too?  If not the one I cited which one?  Maybe you could find me that rule you think he is referring to in his statement?   

[ricker182]

I'll take all the other owners that are happy considering they get crap like "tampering" charges for an owner saying he wish his incompetent GM would have gotten one of his ex players back. The buck needed to stop here. If a couple owners are livid at the Colts? Guess what, we will beat them too for the next 10 years, at least we can clean up the NFL in the process.

I think it's sad people are defending cheating on the NFL.

The NFL may lose me as a fan if this isn't handled properly.

[OffensivelyPC]

Sorry, I bet to differ. 

 

Here is a quote from Dean B.

 

"You can't do anything with the footballs in terms of any artificial, whether you're heating them up, whether it's a regular game ball or kicking ball, you can't do anything to the football," Blandino said. "So that was noticed during the game, both teams were made aware of it during the game and we will certainly remind the clubs as we get into more cold weather games that you can't do anything with the football in terms of heating them up with those sideline heaters."

 

looks like he talking about not altering the ball to me, but I guess you have a different definition of altering.

 

So I ask you this: What rule do you think gave Dean B. the authority to say what happen was against NFL rules?  Furthermore, based on the language in Dean B.'s statement what rule do you think he was referring too?.  Take your time and think for a moment.   Carefully read the manner in which he made his statements and the words that he used and think for a moment what rule might he be referring too.

 

If you do not think that the statement refers to the rule that I referenced and are still somehow can not see the connection between the two, why do you do what you asked me to do.    We know that what happen in that game was against the NFL rules per the statement, and if you do not think its the rule that I referenced, why don't you find me the rule that you think he is referring too.  Find me a link to the rule, just as I provided for you.  Fair enough?  You ask me to do a task as you thought there was no connection, and I found you the rule.  Now why don't you find me the rule that you are talking about that makes this act against NFL rules.

 

I little hint, when a legislative body has a rule that is all encompassing there is more often than not no need to have additional specific rules on the same manner.  And I do not think this particular case requires a more specific rule than the one that I stated.  You apparently do and I will wait for you to provide me with the rule you think Dean B. is talking about in his quote.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/11218/nfl-aware-of-game-ball-incident-during-panthers-vikings

I know what Dan Blandino said, and it was something that wasn't in the rule book.  So you tell me what rule he was referencing - you can't because it doesn't say anything baout what is and is not an alteration.  He didn't reference any rule.  At best he clarified what he thought was an alteration.  And as I have said before, Blandino's quote does absolutely nothing to prove that (a) the Vikings and Panthers knowingly cheated, and (b) did something expressly prohibited by the NFL rulebook.  The best you can say under either the rulebook or the game operations manual is that you cannot "alter" the football.  So until you cna tell me where in the rule book or operations manual it says you can't keep the the footballs warm with a heater, the rule you cited before from the operations manual is subject to debate on what is an alteration.  All Blandino did was go over to the sideliens and say that you couldn't do that, but under all the rules you cite, nothing would have told either tema that what they were doing was in complete contradiction to the rules game ops manual. 

 

The Patriots, on the other hand was clearly in violation of the rulebook and the intent element with what hte Pats did is on a completely different level.  They knew what the PSI should have been, and they weighed them in at the correct PSI and then deflated them.  The best you can say about the intennt of the Vikings/Panthers was that neither of them could have possibly known under the rules whether keeping the balls warm with ah eater was against hte rules, so they went ahead and did it until they were told otherwise.  If you can't grasp that, there's nothing I can say to you.  You want to put what the Pats did on the same level as the Vikings/Panthers, fine.  They aren't even in the same ballpark and it takes a complete stretch in logic to get to that conclusion.

[bababooey]

If they were filled with warm/hot air at room temp they absolutely could in only an hour or two

This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard and I bought Eminem's Relapse album

[Hoosier]

How many more controversial rules are we going to have to create because of the Patriots? Tuck rule, diving at the QB's legs, even hitting the QB, now the NFL has to address custody of the balls after being inspected and approved by the referees.

Don't forget the "trick" formations against Baltimore.

I would imagine the competition committee will take that up as well, in regard to allowing the defense sufficient time to substitute.

[JerodMayo51]

please stop

Very insightful

[bababooey]

Don't forget the "trick" formations against Baltimore.

I would imagine the competition committee will take that up as well, in regard to allowing the defense sufficient time to substitute.

You would think the coach would call the NFL to confirm it's ok, even if that doesn't happen you at least warn the refs beforehand so they aren't intimidated and having to rack their mind for the rule and just letting the game play out to the Ravens dismay. Smart tactic by BB because it worked so well. Too bad we weren't paying attention to it on the Solder TD.

[Narcosys]

If they were filled with warm/hot air at room temp they absolutely could in only an hour or two

 

No.  No they could not,  but since this is your claim, please provide your proof.  You're pulling so many "IF" arguments it is getting a bit ridiculous.  So you are telling me that they kept the air compressors or pumps warm and some how warmed up the air they were putting into it?  Really?  Thats what you are going with?  Because room temperature air is not warm air, its room temperature.  Since this is the case, all balls are filled with room temperature air and there have been other games played at  much colder environmenst and the balls have not deflated.  Green Bay for example.  Do you think their room temperature in the winter is 40 degrees because the outside temperature is 15?  No.  So in environments where there is a much greater difference in temperature, and no drop in pressure of the balls, proves your point illogical.

 

The lengths that pats fans are going to try and find their team not guilty just amazes me. 

[PeterBowman]

You would think the coach would call the NFL to confirm it's ok, even if that doesn't happen you at least warn the refs beforehand so they aren't intimidated and having to rack their mind for the rule and just letting the game play out to the Ravens dismay. Smart tactic by BB because it worked so well. Too bad we weren't paying attention to it on the Solder TD.

actually on the Solder TD, the Colts used that exact same play that Castonzo scored on against them in November.

[ruksak]

Not in a million years.

If by some act of God you got your wish, any punishment would be appealed and would not be completed until well after the SB

My wish is that these guys learn to play the game in a way that is becoming of competition at the highest level, with integrity and fairness, a respect for the rules. My wish is that I'm not feeling disgusted enough to not watch the Super Bowl for the first time in 37 years because we can't abide by rules of fairness that we all learned as children.