9 AFCCG appearances vs 9 one and done's

[NFLfan]

Crow, the Pats were founded in 1960. We don't go as far back as the Colts (1953) and certainly not as far back as the Steelers (1933). All that being said, we have made a Super Bowl and/or won one in each of the past four decades. I don't believe another franchise can claim that.

The Giants can claim that. They won a Super Bowl in each of the last 4 decades (1986, 1990, 2007, and 2011). They also lost the 2000 Super Bowl to Crow's Ravens. (All of this you already know. )

[Gramz]

The Giants can claim that. They won a Super Bowl in each of the last 4 decades (1986, 1990, 2007, and 2011). They also lost the 2000 Super Bowl to Crow's Ravens. (All of this you already know. )

True.  I have  Framed photos in my Sports Den of Eli hoisting the   from two of those.   

[BloodyChamp]

This thread is an example of what I don't get. If we're talking Manning, Brady, Favre, Montana, Manning, Brady, Moon, Otto, Unitas, Manning, Brady, Fouts, Starr, Tittle, Young, Aikman, Manning, Brady, Bradshaw, Marino, Luckman and of course Manning and Brady...every minute stat and factoid gets put on the table, as it should.

Then when Aaron Rodgers actually wins a game against a team that doesn't finish 4-12 he's the GOAT and now he's the iron man for winning with a calf injury. Brett Favre threw 5 TDs with a broken ankle in a 1995 snow game. Ice Bowl II? Am I on crack or was the field bright green for 2 quarters before it got dirty and became medium green? Rodgers's only 2 playoff wins besides 2010 have been shams, the other one being the Joe Webb debacle. Speaking of 2010, the only reason they made the playoffs that year was because the refs robbed the Vikings (whose quarterback once again was on 1 ankle) of 2 touchdowns in that week 7 game. Not 1 catch, not 1 fumble...2 touchdowns.

Now yes that is alot of "if" and "coulda woulda shoulda" in 1 paragraph but if he's going to get compared to the greats it should all get put on the table like it does when we discuss them.

[oldunclemark]

You're kinda on crack..HC...

One Rodgers won that Super Bowl..he was in the discussion and his 2013 season goes down as one of the all-time beat by anyone.

You cant cheery pick and say his only 2 wins outside of 2010. Like you said yourself..put it all on the table..

You cant go 'Skip Bayless' on wins by bad mouthing the team that was beaten. That's just not being fair to the debate.

[Jhaze55]

The reason for this thread is stupid.

[Shane Bond]

The reason for this thread is stupid.

Depends on who opens it

[braveheartcolt]

You really do have to ponder about the purpose of initiating a Patriot / Bronco player debate on a Colts Forum.

Seems typically petty and unecessary. Or maybe it's insecurity. But a great big yawn from me.

[BloodyChamp]

You're kinda on crack..HC...

One Rodgers won that Super Bowl..he was in the discussion and his 2013 season goes down as one of the all-time beat by anyone.

You cant cheery pick and say his only 2 wins outside of 2010. Like you said yourself..put it all on the table..

You cant go 'Skip Bayless' on wins by bad mouthing the team that was beaten. That's just not being fair to the debate.

In a world where Tom Brady is mocked for "only 3 SBs" and losing the last 2 and such...I'm not only being fair, I'm the only one being fair.

[mintor]

In a world where Tom Brady is mocked for "only 3 SBs" and losing the last 2 and such...I'm not only being fair, I'm the only one being fair.

Tom Brady is mocked of spygate  . he had all star defense and great offense. only missing piece was brady. drew bledsoe sucked if he would not got injured in the game then still been starting qb .  been no 3 sb,s 

[pacolts56]

Right, OK....................... 

I had to go look that up. First of all, it's a Boston site, and it's striking how much they care about Manning and how juvenile the dislike is. I don't recall reading any Denver articles belittling Brady with nonsense. Second, the "expert guest from Denver" might as well live in Boston. I went to his twitter feed and he's one of those shock radio trolls who apparently doesn't like Manning. Just deliberately offensive in every aspect.

It was a drive-by piece for sure. But what got me was his "hate the rich kid" angle....that was a personal attack.

 

If Peyton was a lazy, tantrum-throwing, locker room torching diva....festooned with 30 pounds of bling, that would be one thing.

 

But we know he's not....he's as hard a worker among NFL players as there is.

 

So as far as his gripe with Peyton coming from a well-to-do NFL family background....last time I checked you don't get to pick your parents.

[Gramz]

It was a drive-by piece for sure. But what got me was his "hate the rich kid" angle....that was a personal attack.

If Peyton was a lazy, tantrum-throwing, locker room torching diva....festooned with 30 pounds of bling, that would be one thing.

But we know he's not....he's as hard a worker among NFL players as there is.

So as far as his gripe with Peyton coming from a well-to-do NFL family background....last time I checked you don't get to pick your parents.

But if you could, Archie and Olivia are good picks. The whole family is pure class

[New Zealands #1 Colts Fan]

At least Manning has never been tarnished by cheating coaches or organisation

[mintor]

At least Manning has never been tarnished by cheating coaches or organisation

 

 

true

[BloodyChamp]

. he had all star defense and great offense. only missing piece was brady.

See you're doing it even when you try to dismiss it. Meanwhile atleast Brady served as a piece. Rodgers just took over where Favre left off.

[Moose Of Woe]

Yet despite all that, Manning is 2-1 in head to head championship games. His little bro is 2-0 in head to head championship games and he's frickin' terrible by comparison to both Peyton and Brady.

 

Football is a team sport. Apart from when the Patriots were banged up royally last season, they have always been the better overall team with vastly superior coaching compared to Manning's in Indy and Denver. The only reason Denver even made the SB last season was because NE was banged up.

 

The first year even if they got past the Ravens like they should have (that the refs screwed them out of) they would have been destroyed by Gronk and Hernandez, health pending.

 

Some teams match up evenly against the Pats (BAL, SEA) but no teams outmatch them. On the flip side, NE outmatches just about everybody every year. DEN and IND never did...only their offenses.

 

 

At least Indy is a lot closer these days to being a complete team with our special teams actually existing. If we shore up the run game IE: never let Richardson play another snap, we'll be good. If the O-line and run D play like they did in Denver more often then not we'd be a great team.

[jvan1973]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iy1dXPuI_gE

I think this kid has it right

[ViriLudant]

Tom Brady is mocked of spygate . he had all star defense and great offense. only missing piece was brady. drew bledsoe sucked if he would not got injured in the game then still been starting qb . been no 3 sb,s

You do realize that Peyton has several great defenses, and didn't win a SB with them.

[amfootball]

Right, OK....................... 

I had to go look that up. First of all, it's a Boston site, and it's striking how much they care about Manning and how juvenile the dislike is. I don't recall reading any Denver articles belittling Brady with nonsense. Second, the "expert guest from Denver" might as well live in Boston. I went to his twitter feed and he's one of those shock radio trolls who apparently doesn't like Manning. Just deliberately offensive in every aspect.

Few things Gramz,

 

First, this was a Denver sports guy who spoke to a Boston radio station about the situation in Denver

 

Second, what is happening in Denver is the biggest sports story in the NFL right now aside from the playoffs so I am sure this guy is speaking to everyone not just the Boston media

 

Third, I think what he said about Manning was cutting and tasteless. If you read my post you will see that I compare him to one of our own guys, Ron Borges who can be negative but as I said even Borges has never been that cutting or insulting.

 

Fourth, I get the sense the Denver media and fans are really irate as they have a right to be given this whole situation with Fox being fired came out of the blue on the heels of a terrible performance by their team. Manning seems to be the fall guy for this which is unfortunate as he has played at such a high level there for the past three seasons. I am fine if you want to criticize for the guy for his play on the field but to say you want a cement truck to fall on his head is waaay over the line. Honestly, this is why I have always hated Denver.

[amfootball]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iy1dXPuI_gE

I think this kid has it right

Ha. That was great. Kid must be a Jets fans ...

[jvan1973]

Ha. That was great. Kid must be a Jets fans ...

Eagles i think. That's who they were playing. I've had the same reaction during colts pats games many times

[jvan1973]

Few things Gramz,

First, this was a Denver sports guy who spoke to a Boston radio station about the situation in Denver

Second, what is happening in Denver is the biggest sports story in the NFL right now aside from the playoffs so I am sure this guy is speaking to everyone not just the Boston media

Third, I think what he said about Manning was cutting and tasteless. If you read my post you will see that I compare him to one of our own guys, Ron Borges who can be negative but as I said even Borges has never been that cutting or insulting.

Fourth, I get the sense the Denver media and fans are really irate as they have a right to be given this whole situation with Fox being fired came out of the blue on the heels of a terrible performance by their team. Manning seems to be the fall guy for this which is unfortunate as he has played at such a high level there for the past three seasons. I am fine if you want to criticize for the guy for his play on the field but to say you want a cement truck to fall on his head is waaay over the line. Honestly, this is why I have always hated Denver.

I'm guessing if he had a press pass to mile high, he doesn't anymore

[amfootball]

 

So you view a one and done as the same as making it to the Super Bowl and losing?

Not at all. I view a one and done the same as getting to the conference title game and losing.

The title of the post.

Folks keep saying the Mark Sanchez...led this team to 2 AFC title game appearances.

That's the same as 1-and-done to me.

Like I said Oregon 'appeared' in the national championship Monday night.

 

 

Ok. Then we disagree.

[amfootball]

Eagles i think. That's who they were playing. I've had the same reaction during colts pats games many times

Oh even better if he was an Eagles fan. I love when his dad asks him why and he just says, "because I hate him." Pretty much says it all.

[amfootball]

The Giants can claim that. They won a Super Bowl in each of the last 4 decades (1986, 1990, 2007, and 2011). They also lost the 2000 Super Bowl to Crow's Ravens. (All of this you already know. )

Grrrrr, the Giants. Yes, thanks for the correction. Now I will go throw up ... lol.

[45ACP]

Maybe not last year, but I think Brady has had the better teams in general.  He's had things that help him win in the playoffs (good defense, good running game, good coaching, playing outdoors) while Peyton has had the things that help him win in the regular season (playing indoors, surrounded by offensive talent)

 

These discussions are funny when you think about them.  "My QB is better than your QB!  But your team has been better than my team!!"

 

I think when it comes to really building a complete team, Elway can't compare with Belichick.  And Peyton's coaches have never been anywhere near the level of Belichick. 

 

Regardless, both are great QBs and we're fortunate to be witnessing them live.  Because of my age, I wasn't able to witness players like Montana and Unitas live.  But being able to watch the battles Peyton has had with Brady have been great

It's a myth that Brady had "better teams", and that Manning was held back by weak defenses.  Look at the players Manning had, and count the Hall of Famers he has played with. Then count the HOF caliber offensive players that Brady has played with.  In 2004, the best Patriots team of the dynasty years sent 6 players to the Pro Bowl.  2 each on offense, defense and Special Teams.  And a year later, Vinatieri was kicking for the Colts.  In 2005, when the Colts went one and done, they sent 8 players to the Pro Bowl. Three of those were defensive players.  No great defensive teams?  Freeney, Sanders, Mathis?  Cato June and Gary Bracket had a few very fine seasons each.  Offense, when will another team have weapons like Stokely, Harrison, Wayne, James, Dallas Clark and Dominic Rhodes? O-line anchored by Jeff Saturday, 6 time All-Pro.  It is disingenuous to pretend that Manning was afflicted by an inferior cast of characters.  When it's all said and done, who on the Pats besides Tom Brady, is going to the Hall of Fame?  Maybe Richard Seymour, not Teddy Bruschi. Maybe Logan Mankins, not Larry Izzo or Mike Vrabel.  How about the Colts?  Wayne? Harrison?  James? Freeney? Sanders? Mathis?  Saturday? Maybe I'm just more familiar with the great Colts players, so Pats fans please add any Hall of Famers I have missed.

 

Had Brady been the Colts QB, with the exact same Colts teams, I think the Colts would have won more Super Bowls than the Pats have.  Manning: 1 game-winning drive in the playoffs versus Brady: 8 game-winning drives in the playoffs.  Manning: 9 one-and-dones and Career leader in playoff losses; Brady: Career leader in Playoff Wins and TDs. The truth is, Manning is not even a good playoff QB.  He's a stat king who is an assassin when facing Oakland and the like who has been surrounded by a cast of great players on both offense and defense both in Indy and in Denver.  It drove me nuts that we would go one-and-done with such great teams as the Colts had in Manning's prime. 

 

And by the way, a very weak argument is that Brady is somehow deficient by having 2 SB losses.  Do you think a player who plays in 5 Super Bowls and wins 3 is inferior to a player who plays in 2 Super Bowls and wins both?  Do you think Eli Manning is > than Tom Brady?

[jvan1973]

It's a myth that Brady had "better teams", and that Manning was held back by weak defenses. Look at the players Manning had, and count the Hall of Famers he has played with. Then count the HOF caliber offensive players that Brady has played with. In 2004, the best Patriots team of the dynasty years sent 6 players to the Pro Bowl. 2 each on offense, defense and Special Teams. And a year later, Vinatieri was kicking for the Colts. In 2005, when the Colts went one and done, they sent 8 players to the Pro Bowl. Three of those were defensive players. No great defensive teams? Freeney, Sanders, Mathis? Cato June and Gary Bracket had a few very fine seasons each. Offense, when will another team have weapons like Stokely, Harrison, Wayne, James, Dallas Clark and Dominic Rhodes? O-line anchored by Jeff Saturday, 6 time All-Pro. It is disingenuous to pretend that Manning was afflicted by an inferior cast of characters. When it's all said and done, who on the Pats besides Tom Brady, is going to the Hall of Fame? Maybe Richard Seymour, not Teddy Bruschi. Maybe Logan Mankins, not Larry Izzo or Mike Vrabel. How about the Colts? Wayne? Harrison? James? Freeney? Sanders? Mathis? Saturday? Maybe I'm just more familiar with the great Colts players, so Pats fans please add any Hall of Famers I have missed.

Had Brady been the Colts QB, with the exact same Colts teams, I think the Colts would have won more Super Bowls than the Pats have. Manning: 1 game-winning drive in the playoffs versus Brady: 8 game-winning drives in the playoffs. Manning: 9 one-and-dones and Career leader in playoff losses; Brady: Career leader in Playoff Wins and TDs. The truth is, Manning is not even a good playoff QB. He's a stat king who is an assassin when facing Oakland and the like who has been surrounded by a cast of great players on both offense and defense both in Indy and in Denver. It drove me nuts that we would go one-and-done with such great teams as the Colts had in Manning's prime.

And by the way, a very weak argument is that Brady is somehow deficient by having 2 SB losses. Do you think a player who plays in 5 Super Bowls and wins 3 is inferior to a player who plays in 2 Super Bowls and wins both? Do you think Eli Manning is > than Tom Brady?

Yes, because total pro bowlers is the perfect way to figure out which defense was better.

Had the colts had Belichick they would have had more superbowl wins

[MJD42]

Written like a trashtalker with an inferiority complex. I don't get why SOME Pats fans cannot let championships speak for themselves. Both Brady and Manning are two of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play the game. Why is there a need to compare them? Show some class.

Are you joking with that question? They will be compared forever. Two best QBs of their generation ...

[Gramz]

I'm guessing if he had a press pass to mile high, he doesn't anymore

No kidding.

[Gramz]

Few things Gramz,

 

First, this was a Denver sports guy who spoke to a Boston radio station about the situation in Denver

 

Second, what is happening in Denver is the biggest sports story in the NFL right now aside from the playoffs so I am sure this guy is speaking to everyone not just the Boston media

 

Third, I think what he said about Manning was cutting and tasteless. If you read my post you will see that I compare him to one of our own guys, Ron Borges who can be negative but as I said even Borges has never been that cutting or insulting.

 

Fourth, I get the sense the Denver media and fans are really irate as they have a right to be given this whole situation with Fox being fired came out of the blue on the heels of a terrible performance by their team. Manning seems to be the fall guy for this which is unfortunate as he has played at such a high level there for the past three seasons. I am fine if you want to criticize for the guy for his play on the field but to say you want a cement truck to fall on his head is waaay over the line. Honestly, this is why I have always hated Denver.

Not just cutting and tasteless, it was all garbage.

Anyone who believes a shred of what this man spews tells me all I need to know about them. Period

[Narcosys]

a playoff loss is a playoff loss...Its the titles that count..as long as Tom Brady has 3...he's in the lead..looking for 4

...The deal is..barring 2 major upsets by our Colts..

Rodgers or Russell Wilson is going to have a 50-50 chance to get to 2..

..are we read to discuss Russell Wilson as one of the all-time greats because SB titles is our standard?

You seem to forget that titles, championships, playoff appearances, etc. Only seen to matter when it suits the argument.

[Narcosys]

Perhaps the biggest chasm between Brady and Manning was cemented this weekend. Brady achieved history by becoming the first QB in the history of the NFL to come back twice from being down 14 points.

Really? We're treating this ad an accolade? Is been done before but not in the playoffs so big whoop. Some of these frivolous records they keep just make me facepalm.

[amfootball]

Really? We're treating this ad an accolade? Is been done before but not in the playoffs so big whoop. Some of these frivolous records they keep just make me facepalm.

So you think coming back from 14 down twice in a playoff game is no big deal? Despite it never being done before?

[Narcosys]

This thread is an example of what I don't get. If we're talking Manning, Brady, Favre, Montana, Manning, Brady, Moon, Otto, Unitas, Manning, Brady, Fouts, Starr, Tittle, Young, Aikman, Manning, Brady, Bradshaw, Marino, Luckman and of course Manning and Brady...every minute stat and factoid gets put on the table, as it should.

Then when Aaron Rodgers actually wins a game against a team that doesn't finish 4-12 he's the GOAT and now he's the iron man for winning with a calf injury. Brett Favre threw 5 TDs with a broken ankle in a 1995 snow game. Ice Bowl II? Am I on crack or was the field bright green for 2 quarters before it got dirty and became medium green? Rodgers's only 2 playoff wins besides 2010 have been shams, the other one being the Joe Webb debacle. Speaking of 2010, the only reason they made the playoffs that year was because the refs robbed the Vikings (whose quarterback once again was on 1 ankle) of 2 touchdowns in that week 7 game. Not 1 catch, not 1 fumble...2 touchdowns.

Now yes that is alot of "if" and "coulda woulda shoulda" in 1 paragraph but if he's going to get compared to the greats it should all get put on the table like it does when we discuss them.

Every factoid is placed on the table and then an excuse is made for. Prime example brady vs manning, always Manning's fault vs always someone else's fault. Sane with the NFC side of romo and Rodgers, always romos fault vs always someone else's fault.

I have heard so many times is cause brady didn't have a defense or he didn't have a receiver or he needs a better run game...but manning and romo it's that they choked. Cause supposedly they have all the defenses and weapons that even Jesus couldn't compete against.

I wanna see how well brady does without belicheck. He's the key to their success, and Matt Cassell proves my point.

[MJD42]

Really? We're treating this ad an accolade? Is been done before but not in the playoffs so big whoop. Some of these frivolous records they keep just make me facepalm.

Record? What part of "never been done" in a playoff game is lost on you?

[pgt_rob]

So you think coming back from 14 down twice in a playoff game is no big deal? Despite it never being done before?

 

Eh... Andrew Luck coming back from a 28 point deficit was better. But who am I?

[jvan1973]

Eh... Andrew Luck coming back from a 28 point deficit was better. But who am I?

There will be a reason that this isn't as impressive

[amfootball]

Eh... Andrew Luck coming back from a 28 point deficit was better. But who am I?

For sure that was great. Has that been done before? Frank Reich maybe had bigger comeback I think.

[MJD42]

For sure that was great. Has that been done before? Frank Reich maybe had bigger comeback I think.

Reich was 31 down and was biggest comeback in NFL post season history.

 

And doesn't being down by 14 twice equal 28? lol.

[pgt_rob]

There will be a reason that this isn't as impressive

 

You're right. There's always a reason to make this completely subjective...

[pgt_rob]

And doesn't being down by 14 twice equal 28? lol.

 

You can math pretty well there, buddy. Being down by 28 is much more fun, harder, and impressive to come back from than 14 twice, IN MY OPINION. The moral factor for the team down by 28 can be shot dead in most cases, but the team fought back.