Pats/Denver thread - snow in forecast (merge)

[PeterBowman]

Yes, yes there is.

 

Hint: They wear orange at home.

 

They're up there for sure...but every time I've watched a game at Gillette (not just Colts), there are always lucky breaks, bounces, occurrences (ex. 300lb lineman almost running back a kickoff for a touchdown) that benefits NE

[-JJ-]

Excellent points IWF. Browner is costing your squad vital field position & he's not playing smart football right now. BB will make sure he falls in line though. Peyton's running game was hit & miss tonight too. Mostly miss. 

I wouldn't be so sure of that. BB brought him in for being physical and that's going to draw some penalties.

 

Two pretty good ex-patriots were talking about that-Wiggins and Fox. 40 passes with 3 penalties isn't that bad taking it in that light because it sets the tone we're going to beat up on you. They did say you might have to be more careful with that in the playoffs which could cost a game.

 

So basically you're exchanging some penalties to get the defense in a frame of mind. Welker dropped a ball for an INT because he knew he was going to be hit hard.

 

As to Manning- Brady has the accurate bullet but still over throws the deep passes. Manning doesn't have the bullet but he sure can drop those long balls dead on. I guess neither one can be a 100% in everything would be the moral of the story

[-JJ-]

Denver wins. Not even close.

Where is Shane when you need him :disco:

[JerodMayo51]

Where is Shane when you need him :disco:

Probably breathing into a brown paper bag right now lol

[PrincetonTiger]

Not sure how much better the Pats are than the Broncos because Denver or their coaches were off yesterday

[dynasty13]

Where is Shane when you need him :disco:

 

Yeah he's had a tough week around here... 

[GoPats]

Side note comment. We all thought Revis was Talib's obvious replacement but it has been Browner more IMO. What made Talib great was his physical play although he was not every good yesterday. Browner is big and physical like him. He makes 2-3 key plays a game but he has to clean up some of the flags ...

 

I'll take the flags. I want them to be aggressive.

 

I thought there were questionable PI and holding calls on both teams last night. I'd rather the Patriots push it to the limit in every game in terms of what they're allowed to do and what's against the rules. 

 

The defense is getting there. I know Manning piled up a bunch of yards but anyone who watched the game saw how the Pats' D dictated play. Their game-plan was high risk, high reward, and the players executed it well. 

 

The offense is really humming. For all the doom-and-gloom about Denver's D, I'm not surprised... Jack DelRio is still coaching it. I figured for sure they'd change things up on Brady in the second half, but nope. 

 

Great win heading into the bye. They're in control now... don't blow it! 

[Superman]

Side note comment. We all thought Revis was Talib's obvious replacement but it has been Browner more IMO. What made Talib great was his physical play although he was not every good yesterday. Browner is big and physical like him. He makes 2-3 key plays a game but he has to clean up some of the flags ...

 

I don't think Browner is very good at all. He likes to mug receivers, and he's a physical matchup for non-physical guys, but he's easy to beat down the field, and he doesn't have great change of direction. I would absolutely LOVE to see him lined up across from Hilton in two weeks. 

[-JJ-]

I don't think Browner is very good at all. He likes to mug receivers, and he's a physical matchup for non-physical guys, but he's easy to beat down the field, and he doesn't have great change of direction. I would absolutely LOVE to see him lined up across from Hilton in two weeks. 

puleese- Browner isn't fast enough. Let's go Revis on him and even then he'll get his share of catches

[Superman]

puleese- Browner isn't fast enough. Let's go Revis on him and even then he'll get his share of catches

 

I know Browner isn't fast enough. Browner knows Browner isn't fast enough.

 

 

That's why I hope we get that matchup. 

 

To be honest, NO ONE is fast enough, including Revis. But Revis is actually a good cover man, and I don't think Browner is. I think he's physical off the line and did a good job making up ground once the ball was in the air against the Seahawks Cover 3, but that's not enough. I think he's okay, an average starter, but there's a reason he gets flagged so much, and that physical style of play is his hallmark. Put him against a shifty receiver in an offset alignment, and he's toast.

[GoPats]

I don't think Browner is very good at all. He likes to mug receivers, and he's a physical matchup for non-physical guys, but he's easy to beat down the field, and he doesn't have great change of direction. I would absolutely LOVE to see him lined up across from Hilton in two weeks. 

 

He won't be on Hilton, and if he is, he will be inside TY's uniform on every route. But that's not his match-up. He'll be on Reggie and/or Allen quite a bit, I bet. Hilton is too quick and fast for a guy like Browner. He'll see plenty of Revis and probably a mix of the other guys. 

 

Your evaluation is what everyone said about Browner when they signed him here. Physical as they come, but lacks pure coverage skills. I'll take it, along with his penalties, if the results are what they've been. Not sure I agree with "easy to beat down the field." He hasn't gotten burned repeatedly with the Patriots. And to get "down the field" you have to get away from him in those first five yards, which is easier said than done.

 

Personally I thought there were a ton of garbage PI and defensive holding calls on both sides last night. I don't know when this became basketball, but it's starting to really ruin the sport for me. At least one scoring drive per team was extended on a weak penalty call... I hate that, unless it's blatant. 

[southwest1]

Manning got garbage stats in garbage time. 

 

438 yards in a decidedly one-sided game mean very little.  But they'll show up in his career stats, and that's what matters to him.

Go back to MOW's original post. A "noodle arm" refers to a weakness in the arm strength of #18 not the score or final outcome. That's what I was attacking/addressing in MOW's flawed argument. 

 

The final outcome has virtually nothing to do with the point I was actually making. My point is this: What's the point in pretending that Manning can't throw the ball. He did just recently break Brett Favre's TD record did he not?

 

I will be the 1st to tell you that stats don't mean a darn thing to me, but if you imply that a player I like is "soft" with a noodle arm, I'm coming after anybody who says that foolish remark with a straight face & setting the record straight. Enough said. 

[Superman]

He won't be on Hilton, and if he is, he will be inside TY's uniform on every route. But that's not his match-up. He'll be on Reggie and/or Allen quite a bit, I bet. Hilton is too quick and fast for a guy like Browner. He'll see plenty of Revis and probably a mix of the other guys. 

 

Your evaluation is what everyone said about Browner when they signed him here. Physical as they come, but lacks pure coverage skills. I'll take it, along with his penalties, if the results are what they've been. Not sure I agree with "easy to beat down the field." He hasn't gotten burned repeatedly with the Patriots. And to get "down the field" you have to get away from him in those first five yards, which is easier said than done.

 

Personally I thought there were a ton of garbage PI and defensive holding calls on both sides last night. I don't know when this became basketball, but it's starting to really ruin the sport for me. At least one scoring drive per team was extended on a weak penalty call... I hate that, unless it's blatant. 

 

We disagree in general about the PI / defensive holding. I don't think defenders should be able to grab and hold receivers. That's not coverage. There are a lot of physical corners in the league that take receivers out of plays without grabbing and holding past five yards. Some of the calls are ticky-tack, at times, but I didn't think the calls in that game last night were. I also didn't pay that much attention to them...

 

As for beating Browner down the field, he's given up a lot of big plays the past two years, and that's in a defense that's designed to limit big plays. The Seahawks play a lot of zone, and while they sometimes invite big shots, they mostly have a safety over the top, and the outside guys (like Browner and Sherman) ride receivers out to the sideline where plays are hard to finish. And he still got beat his fair share. I know he hasn't been beat a lot with the Pats, but he hasn't played a lot with the Pats, right? Wasn't yesterday his second game?

 

I don't know how you guys handle motion receivers, whether Revis or Browner will follow their guys across the field, but we move Hilton and Wayne a lot, so there's potential for cross matches there. And we use those guys in an offset alignment, which takes away the physicality that both of your corners love to use. I don't think you have anyone that can handle Hilton one on one, especially when he's on the move. Reggie isn't what he used to be, but he can still make plays when the chance comes.

[amfootball]

I don't think Browner is very good at all. He likes to mug receivers, and he's a physical matchup for non-physical guys, but he's easy to beat down the field, and he doesn't have great change of direction. I would absolutely LOVE to see him lined up across from Hilton in two weeks. 

Not a great cover corner but he has surprised me with his coverage skills so far. This was only his 3rd or 4th game because he was suspended the first four games. His physicality is what was sorely needed for this secondary. As you saw yesterday, we have plenty of guys to cover - Revis, Arrington, Butler even Chung was pretty good yesterday but we have lacked that physical presence to intimidate. Welker popped that ball in the air because he knew he as going to get drilled That is what Talib brought last year and he gave up his fair share of plays too especially when he faced speedier receivers. This may be the most talented and in-depth secondary Bill has ever had at his disposal. And what was brilliant yesterday is he brought pressure up the middle from the LBs to pressure Manning. Honestly, it was brilliant. No one really predicted what Bill did to that offense.

 

I am interested to see how he plays the Colts. I highly doubt Browner is on TY. Mostly likely Revis.

[dgambill]

That was a good ol fashioned butt whoopin. Peyton wasn't especially sharp but that defense and special teams was attrocious. Gronk was all over the place making great play after great play. Brady continued to be sharp...really clicking. Only had 2 bad throws...both over throws. Both qbs threw picks that led to points...but I was mostly surprised that Denver couldn't run the ball....that was outstanding run defense.

 

Home field definately is a huge advantage for these two qbs. Peyton not being able to audible much at the line and Tom being able to bark out orders and pull people offsides....thats a big deal in these type games. That said NE may have won that game in Denver playing the way they did tonight. Denver needs help at LB....anyone to cover gronk...you almost have to bracket the guy and make someone else beat you. I will give Denver credit...they didn't tank it at half time...they played hard but were just outphysicaled. Goes to show if you set the tone early to make it a physical game...the refs will let you play..and then those atheletes aren't quite as unstoppable. Another thing that stands out to me is that you can't say Brady doesn't have good receivers...they were open all night and Lafell and Gronk are pro ball type playmakers....and Edelman and Amendola will kill you by a thousand little cuts.

[Superman]

Not a great cover corner but he has surprised me with his coverage skills so far. This was only his 3rd or 4th game because he was suspended the first four games. His physicality is what was sorely needed for this secondary. As you saw yesterday, we have plenty of guys to cover - Revis, Arrington, Butler even Chung was pretty good yesterday but we have lacked that physical presence to intimidate. Welker popped that ball in the air because he knew he as going to get drilled That is what Talib brought last year and he gave up his fair share of plays too especially when he faced speedier receivers. This may be the most talented and in-depth secondary Bill has ever had at his disposal. And what was brilliant yesterday is he brought pressure up the middle from the LBs to pressure Manning. Honestly, it was brilliant. No one really predicted what Bill did to that offense.

 

I am interested to see how he plays the Colts. I highly doubt Browner is on TY. Mostly likely Revis.

 

Chung did a good job against TEs. And everyone else did a good job in coverage. Even the plays that were completed, there was mostly a cover guy right there to end the play. 

 

What helped was having a lead against a team that already wants to throw the ball. That could happen against the Colts, but we're more concerned with having some balance on offense, and we'll use real play action (I hope, it's been inconsistent this year so far), and we'll move our receivers across the formation. You might want Revis on Hilton, but when we motion him away, is Revis going to follow him? Will your cover guys wind up cross matched against bunch formations?

 

It's going to be a good game, I think, especially seeing what the Pats do defensively. But the gameplan that worked against the Broncos won't work against us, especially if there isn't a two score deficit in the first half. Also, you can't play with the wind at your backs in LOS, which is a big part of what allowed the Pats to be so aggressive underneath. 

[southwest1]

What he is missing in strength he makes up for in accuracy and timing. He really threw well yesterday in the wind. Only one bad decision when he threw the ball right to Nink. He just could not convert any third and fourth downs. That was the story of the game.

Yeah, when Manning threw that pick, I had a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach. The 1st thing I said after swearing was "Brady's gonna make Denver pay dearly for that." Yes, the Broncos couldn't buy a 3rd down conversion last night. It was brutal. 

 

Brady, on the other hand, was on fire last night & when he gets in a rhythm he's almost impossible to stop. Sometimes NFL games are like that 1 QB can do no wrong & the other 1 just can't get it going. It happens. 

 

What set the tone for me was the Julian Edelman punt return for a TD. I was like "Say goodnight Gracie/Denver. It's over." The Patriots were just in the zone last night & Edelman broke Denver's back meaning broke that game wide open & started pulling away mojo/ momentum wise IMHO.

[amfootball]

Chung did a good job against TEs. And everyone else did a good job in coverage. Even the plays that were completed, there was mostly a cover guy right there to end the play. 

 

What helped was having a lead against a team that already wants to throw the ball. That could happen against the Colts, but we're more concerned with having some balance on offense, and we'll use real play action (I hope, it's been inconsistent this year so far), and we'll move our receivers across the formation. You might want Revis on Hilton, but when we motion him away, is Revis going to follow him? Will your cover guys wind up cross matched against bunch formations?

 

It's going to be a good game, I think, especially seeing what the Pats do defensively. But the gameplan that worked against the Broncos won't work against us, especially if there isn't a two score deficit in the first half. Also, you can't play with the wind at your backs in LOS, which is a big part of what allowed the Pats to be so aggressive underneath. 

Honestly, I have no idea. Like I said, Bill had a game plan that no one predicted vs the Broncos. As I said, this is his most talented secondary that gives him many options. Don't forget about Jaime Collins in coverage as well. He has been a stud. Nothing Bill has done this year has been what I though vs any team. I do think what we are seeing is the defense gelling and trusting each other and that is resulting in more aggressive play. They played the Bears lights out as well and the Bengals. So what you saw yesterday has been going on now for about three/four weeks with this defense and that is with Jones and Mayo out.

 

I do think the Colts game will be a great match up. I just hope we are not going to catch you on the down swing. Tonight's game will tell a lot I think. You should handle the Giants. If not, the Pats game could be really ugly.

[amfootball]

Chung did a good job against TEs. And everyone else did a good job in coverage. Even the plays that were completed, there was mostly a cover guy right there to end the play. 

 

What helped was having a lead against a team that already wants to throw the ball. That could happen against the Colts, but we're more concerned with having some balance on offense, and we'll use real play action (I hope, it's been inconsistent this year so far), and we'll move our receivers across the formation. You might want Revis on Hilton, but when we motion him away, is Revis going to follow him? Will your cover guys wind up cross matched against bunch formations?

 

It's going to be a good game, I think, especially seeing what the Pats do defensively. But the gameplan that worked against the Broncos won't work against us, especially if there isn't a two score deficit in the first half. Also, you can't play with the wind at your backs in LOS, which is a big part of what allowed the Pats to be so aggressive underneath. 

Pats did not have a lead early. It was 7-3 Broncos after the first quarter. Denver tried to run but the Pats shut it down making them one dimensional. That was a huge key to the game actually and what allowed the Pats to defend the pass so well and the O to score points in the second quarter.

[OldManP]

Go back to MOW's original post. A "noodle arm" refers to a weakness in the arm strength of #18 not the score or final outcome. That's what I was attacking/addressing in MOW's flawed argument. 

 

The final outcome has virtually nothing to do with the point I was actually making. My point is this: What's the point in pretending that Manning can't throw the ball. He did just recently break Brett Favre's TD record did he not?

 

I will be the 1st to tell you that stats don't mean a darn thing to me, but if you imply that a player I like is "soft" with a noodle arm, I'm coming after anybody who says that foolish remark with a straight face & setting the record straight. Enough said. 

OK, that's reasonable.  My post was making the point that all the individual stats are just a lot of noise.  The NFL hypes this stuff because there is somehow money in Fantasy Football.   438 yards or 43.8 yards, the Broncos got whupped yesterday.  I never said he had a noodle arm, I was just scoffing at the statistics he piled up. 

[Superman]

Pats did not have a lead early. It was 7-3 Broncos after the first quarter. Denver tried to run but the Pats shut it down making them one dimensional. That was a huge key to the game actually and what allowed the Pats to defend the pass so well and the O to score points in the second quarter.

 

I didn't say early. They capitalized off of the mistake by Manning (either really good recognition by Ninkovich, which I think is the deal, seeing as how he had a ball go right behind his head on the earlier drive; or a really good defensive play call), and shortly after that, it was 20-7. From that point, the game got easier for the Pats defense. Not taking anything away from them; they still did a really good job, but for two and a half quarters, they were up by at least two scores. 

[OldManP]

your posts are very sad. If all he cared about was stats, why were the final four plays of the game runs?

Read up about Wilt Chamberlain.  He chalked up 50-60 points in more than one game where his team was getting blown out.  So what? 

 

Manning's followers claim his brain is like a calculator.  If he had one more incomplete pass, he would have dropped below 60% completion, which would have hurt his stats.  There's your explanation.

[Superman]

Honestly, I have no idea. Like I said, Bill had a game plan that no one predicted vs the Broncos. As I said, this is his most talented secondary that gives him many options. Don't forget about Jaime Collins in coverage as well. He has been a stud. Nothing Bill has done this year has been what I though vs any team. I do think what we are seeing is the defense gelling and trusting each other and that is resulting in more aggressive play. They played the Bears lights out as well and the Bengals. So what you saw yesterday has been going on now for about three/four weeks with this defense and that is with Jones and Mayo out.

 

I do think the Colts game will be a great match up. I just hope we are not going to catch you on the down swing. Tonight's game will tell a lot I think. You should handle the Giants. If not, the Pats game could be really ugly.

 

If Hakeem Nicks isn't productive tonight, Donte Moncrief will get his snaps coming out of the bye. So there's a lot riding on tonight's game. 

 

Either way, we just have a different offensive approach than the Broncos. The Pats have some good defensive players; I had forgotten about Jamie Collins, but I was mostly thinking about coverage on the outside and deep across the middle. Collins can cover any of our TEs and RBs, and maybe even some of our WRs, depending on the situation. I noticed him dropping in the red zone a lot, which is big, because we like our TEs and RBs in the red zone. 

 

Of course, our best receiver is Hilton, easily. And I don't think you have anyone who can cover him one on one, period. Not even Revis. Matter of fact, since I think you have to double him, it's almost a waste to put Revis on him.

 

I know Belichick is up to the task. I hope Pep Hamilton and Andrew Luck are. Going to be interesting.

[Superman]

Read up about Wilt Chamberlain.  He chalked up 50-60 points in more than one game where his team was getting blown out.  So what? 

 

Manning's followers claim his brain is like a calculator.  If he had one more incomplete pass, he would have dropped below 60% completion, which would have hurt his stats.  There's your explanation.

 

Stahp.

[jvan1973]

Read up about Wilt Chamberlain. He chalked up 50-60 points in more than one game where his team was getting blown out. So what?

Manning's followers claim his brain is like a calculator. If he had one more incomplete pass, he would have dropped below 60% completion, which would have hurt his stats. There's your explanation.

No, no that's not the explanation. He could have thrown four shovel passes if that were the case. Your hatred of manning is sad. He is the best player this franchise ever had.

[OldManP]

No, no that's not the explanation. He could have thrown four shovel passes if that were the case. Your hatred of manning is sad. He is the best player this franchise ever had.

Don't cry for me, Argentina Indy!

 

He might be the best player the Indy Colts ever had, but Unitas was better in my opinion. 

[buccolts]

Go back to MOW's original post. A "noodle arm" refers to a weakness in the arm strength of #18 not the score or final outcome. That's what I was attacking/addressing in MOW's flawed argument. 

 

The final outcome has virtually nothing to do with the point I was actually making. My point is this: What's the point in pretending that Manning can't throw the ball. He did just recently break Brett Favre's TD record did he not?

 

I will be the 1st to tell you that stats don't mean a darn thing to me, but if you imply that a player I like is "soft" with a noodle arm, I'm coming after anybody who says that foolish remark with a straight face & setting the record straight. Enough said. 

 

I'm not saying Peyton's arm is, or isn't a noodle, as I've not been watching his games this year (week 1 aside), but so far your arguments are 'he threw for 438 yards' , and he broke Favres TD record'.

 

What do those two things have to do with Peyton's arm being a noodle at this point in his career?

The yards don't necessarily mean he was chucking it down field all day. Could be excellent YAC.

Favres TDs is over a career.

Has nothing necessarily to do with how he's throwing now.

[jvan1973]

Don't cry for me, Argentina Indy!

He might be the best player the Indy Colts ever had, but Unitas was better in my opinion.

Well that's opinion that can't be backed up with any evidence at all. Also, i dont care about Baltimore colts history. Apparently neither did the colts fans in the eighties, that's why they are here now

[jvan1973]

I'm not saying Peyton's arm is, or isn't a noodle, as I've not been watching his games this year (week 1 aside), but so far your arguments are 'he threw for 438 yards' , and he broke Favres TD record'.

What do those two things have to do with Peyton's arm being a noodle at this point in his career?

The yards don't necessarily mean he was chucking it down field all day. Could be excellent YAC.

Favres TDs is over a career.

Has nothing necessarily to do with how he's throwing now.

If you get chance, look at the td he threw to J Thomas yesterday. He certainly doesn't have the zip he once had, but it is enough to get the job done

[JerodMayo51]

I don't think Browner is very good at all. He likes to mug receivers, and he's a physical matchup for non-physical guys, but he's easy to beat down the field, and he doesn't have great change of direction. I would absolutely LOVE to see him lined up across from Hilton in two weeks.

They won't match Browner up on Hilton, they'll stick him on Wayne or Allen. They used him a lot on Julius Thomas and I see them continuing to match him up against bigger opponents.

[amfootball]

I didn't say early. They capitalized off of the mistake by Manning (either really good recognition by Ninkovich, which I think is the deal, seeing as how he had a ball go right behind his head on the earlier drive; or a really good defensive play call), and shortly after that, it was 20-7. From that point, the game got easier for the Pats defense. Not taking anything away from them; they still did a really good job, but for two and a half quarters, they were up by at least two scores. 

I disagree. Denver came out and tried to run but were stone walled. That was a huge key early on given how awful their run defense has been and that was with their nickel coverage on the field. That set the tone. Manning from there on out was passing against a pass heavy look from the Pats. That is what allowed them to dominate defensively and then of course the Manning pick and the STs score.

[Superman]

They won't match Browner up on Hilton, they'll stick him on Wayne or Allen. They used him a lot on Julius Thomas and I see them continuing to match him up against bigger opponents.

 

Yeah, I doubt that they'd give us that matchup. But I'd love it if they did.

 

Difference between the Colts and the Broncos is that we're more likely to give you a heavy personnel package or check to a run if Browner is in the box. Hopefully we're not down two scores like the Broncos were, but generally, we want to run the ball. So put Browner on Allen and we'll try to beat the light box on the ground. I think you'd be better off with Jamie Collins on Allen, as he's not the playmaker Julius Thomas is. 

[amfootball]

If Hakeem Nicks isn't productive tonight, Donte Moncrief will get his snaps coming out of the bye. So there's a lot riding on tonight's game. 

 

Either way, we just have a different offensive approach than the Broncos. The Pats have some good defensive players; I had forgotten about Jamie Collins, but I was mostly thinking about coverage on the outside and deep across the middle. Collins can cover any of our TEs and RBs, and maybe even some of our WRs, depending on the situation. I noticed him dropping in the red zone a lot, which is big, because we like our TEs and RBs in the red zone. 

 

Of course, our best receiver is Hilton, easily. And I don't think you have anyone who can cover him one on one, period. Not even Revis. Matter of fact, since I think you have to double him, it's almost a waste to put Revis on him.

 

I know Belichick is up to the task. I hope Pep Hamilton and Andrew Luck are. Going to be interesting.

This is thing though and please don't read this as a slight but Luck is no Manning. The issues you have had the last two times you have faced the Pats is that he has thrown the ball as much to the Pats as his own team. He IMO is the key. His guys are going to get open in spots but he has to hit them, not stare them down, not force throws, and be consistent for 60 minutes.

[OldManP]

Well that's opinion that can't be backed up with any evidence at all. Also, i dont care about Baltimore colts history. Apparently neither did the colts fans in the eighties, that's why they are here now

The NFL has swung to ridiculousness in how the game is slanted to the offense, and especially QBs. 

 

Manning & the Colts, through the Colts front office presssure on the competition committee, got the rules changed to make the NFL more friendly to his type of game.  If you like traditional football more than Fantasy Football, that did not improve the game.  We have a slew of QBs who are lighting up the stats today.  Meanwhile, defense takes a back seat.  We have record number of ACL/MCL injuries, Wes Welker looks like he's under the influence from all the head shots he's taken... If you want the game to survive and not become the World Wrestling Federation, even up the rules and stop playing Fanstasy Football.

[JerodMayo51]

If you get chance, look at the td he threw to J Thomas yesterday. He certainly doesn't have the zip he once had, but it is enough to get the job done

That was a beautiful pass, I was impressed and my jaw dropped when that pass fell right in front of J Thomas, like STRAIGHT down there was so much arc on it, basically making it impossible for the trailing defender to stop it.

[Superman]

I disagree. Denver came out and tried to run but were stone walled. That was a huge key early on given how awful their run defense has been and that was with their nickel coverage on the field. That set the tone. Manning from there on out was passing against a pass heavy look from the Pats. That is what allowed them to dominate defensively and then of course the Manning pick and the STs score.

 

We don't disagree about any of that. I'm saying that the Broncos want to throw the ball. Yeah, they came out trying to run, but when it comes down to it, they want to throw the ball. If the run had worked, they'd have stuck with it, but once they got some resistance, everyone knew what was going to happen. Add to that the fact that the Pats grabbed a lead in the first half, and like you said, their offense got one dimensional. I also think they were going to try to throw in the second and third quarter anyways, while they had the wind. They just weren't effective, with two picks, a missed FG and a ton of failures on third and fourth down.

 

The Colts can get pass happy also, but generally speaking, we want to have some balance. You can't go nickel with a light box and expect us to just try to pass against it. Our objective -- whether we're good enough at this is another story -- is to beat you out of that nickel with a light box, and until you adjust, we'll keep running the ball. That's the stated objective, anyways. Sometimes it's different in practice, but it worked against the Bengals, even though the offense was inefficient in the first half.

 

Anyways, long story short, we play a different brand of offense than the Broncos. Hopefully we're not down two scores at any point, but even if we are, we're probably not going to throw the ball 60 times. And you won't have the benefit of a headwind influencing the game at any point. 

[amfootball]

We don't disagree about any of that. I'm saying that the Broncos want to throw the ball. Yeah, they came out trying to run, but when it comes down to it, they want to throw the ball. If the run had worked, they'd have stuck with it, but once they got some resistance, everyone knew what was going to happen. Add to that the fact that the Pats grabbed a lead in the first half, and like you said, their offense got one dimensional. I also think they were going to try to throw in the second and third quarter anyways, while they had the wind. They just weren't effective, with two picks, a missed FG and a ton of failures on third and fourth down.

 

The Colts can get pass happy also, but generally speaking, we want to have some balance. You can't go nickel with a light box and expect us to just try to pass against it. Our objective -- whether we're good enough at this is another story -- is to beat you out of that nickel with a light box, and until you adjust, we'll keep running the ball. That's the stated objective, anyways. Sometimes it's different in practice, but it worked against the Bengals, even though the offense was inefficient in the first half.

 

Anyways, long story short, we play a different brand of offense than the Broncos. Hopefully we're not down two scores at any point, but even if we are, we're probably not going to throw the ball 60 times. And you won't have the benefit of a headwind influencing the game at any point. 

I think when you play the Pats or the Broncos, you have the QB effect. And what I mean by that is that the opposing QB knows they have to put up points to win. Brady said before the game that he can't expect to put up 10 points and win vs Manning. So as much as the Colts may want to stay balanced and take the run in an obvious pass look defense, they will pass because of the pressure Brady will put on them to score. This is one of the main reason why Brady and Manning have won as much as they have. They just put so much pressure on other teams QBs to stay with them. That being said, Luck can stay with Brady but I don't think he will be able to score at will vs this defense. I think the wild card will be more the Colts D and how they try to contain the Pats. Denver had the better D going in so we thought and they were shredded all game.

[Superman]

This is thing though and please don't read this as a slight but Luck is no Manning. The issues you have had the last two times you have faced the Pats is that he has thrown the ball as much to the Pats as his own team. He IMO is the key. His guys are going to get open in spots but he has to hit them, not stare them down, not force throws, and be consistent for 60 minutes.

 

That's not a slight. It's a statement of fact. I think Luck has 7 interceptions in two games against the Pats? Ball security is huge.

 

Of course, both of those games were on the road, where everyone struggles against the Pats, and we fell behind in both of those games.

 

The goal is definitely going to be to impose our will on this game, which hopefully results in us dictating matchups. And if, at any point, we have a chance for a big play -- like if we catch anyone in single coverage against Hilton -- hopefully we can convert. If you stick to a nickel, hopefully we can run.

[GoPats]

We disagree in general about the PI / defensive holding. I don't think defenders should be able to grab and hold receivers. That's not coverage. There are a lot of physical corners in the league that take receivers out of plays without grabbing and holding past five yards. Some of the calls are ticky-tack, at times, but I didn't think the calls in that game last night were. I also didn't pay that much attention to them...

 

As for beating Browner down the field, he's given up a lot of big plays the past two years, and that's in a defense that's designed to limit big plays. The Seahawks play a lot of zone, and while they sometimes invite big shots, they mostly have a safety over the top, and the outside guys (like Browner and Sherman) ride receivers out to the sideline where plays are hard to finish. And he still got beat his fair share. I know he hasn't been beat a lot with the Pats, but he hasn't played a lot with the Pats, right? Wasn't yesterday his second game?

 

I don't know how you guys handle motion receivers, whether Revis or Browner will follow their guys across the field, but we move Hilton and Wayne a lot, so there's potential for cross matches there. And we use those guys in an offset alignment, which takes away the physicality that both of your corners love to use. I don't think you have anyone that can handle Hilton one on one, especially when he's on the move. Reggie isn't what he used to be, but he can still make plays when the chance comes.

 

My problem with the PI calls is that it's still inconsistent. And to be consistent, you'd have to literally call every instance where a defender makes contact with a receiver. They hit Browner with a holding call yesterday that extended a drive, but on one of the fourth-and-outs for Denver, Chung was all over Tamme in the end zone, making more contact than Browner had made when they called a penalty. I'm not sure what was so "broken" that the league felt they had to step in and fix it. There's been no shortage of scoring in recent years. I prefer to see a little defense played in a football game. 

 

I know Browner's history but don't think the Patriots are going to leave him exposed in any situations where he doesn't have deep help on his side. He'll give up some balls, don't get me wrong. But from a big-picture standpoint, I love having a big, physical corner out there. 

 

I was looking at Hilton's game logs for this year. Looks like Denver did a nice job on him (5 catches on 11 targets), as did Philly (6 on 11 targets). Obviously he's been great though. I'm sure what you described was put in place to get him off the line and into his routes. That seems like it's the key with a small guy like that. 

[jvan1973]

The NFL has swung to ridiculousness in how the game is slanted to the offense, and especially QBs.

Manning & the Colts, through the Colts front office presssure on the competition committee, got the rules changed to make the NFL more friendly to his type of game. If you like traditional football more than Fantasy Football, that did not improve the game. We have a slew of QBs who are lighting up the stats today. Meanwhile, defense takes a back seat. We have record number of ACL/MCL injuries, Wes Welker looks like he's under the influence from all the head shots he's taken... If you want the game to survive and not become the World Wrestling Federation, even up the rules and stop playing Fanstasy Football.

FYI that rule was in place before Manning was even in college. If you are going to try to make an argument at least get the facts correct