Do We Go With Khaled Holmes Against Baltimore?

[krunk]

Should we go with Holmes or continue with Shipley?  What do you say?

[Ja'Crispy]

If it ain't broke...

[TKnight24]

Continue with Shipley and get Lance out of the lineup

Leave Holmes on the bench where he belongs

[PrincetonTiger]

Before I start promoting KH to the starting lineup I want him to be active for a week

[TKnight24]

If it ain't broke...

............ *echoes statement*

[MTC]

Shipley is starting and will remain the starter for the rest of the season unless an injury occurs or just flat out stinks (he's been really good).

[Gavin]

Haven't rewatched the game, Watching Eagles at 49ers right now.

[NewEra]

Continue with Shipley and get Lance out of the lineup

Leave Holmes on the bench where he belongs

We haven't seen him enough to know where he belongs.

[TKnight24]

We haven't seen him enough to know where he belongs.

We know he can't stay healthy, we know that much

So leave him on the bench and leave him there until he's needed by way of injury or bad play by Shipley

If neither of those things happen, then Holmes can compete for the starting job in next year's preseason

Cause if it ain't broke...........

[NewEra]

We know he can't stay healthy, we know that much

So leave him on the bench and leave him there until he's needed by way of injury or bad play by Shipley

If neither of those things happen, then Holmes can compete for the starting job in next year's preseason

Cause if it ain't broke...........

[krunk]

I'm leaning more towards letting him take over.  I'd like to see what we look like with him and Thornton simultaneously.

[Jason_]

Just because something isn't broken doesn't mean it can't be improved upon.

[ColtsHoosiersBB]

[Gavin]

Just because something isn't broken doesn't mean it can't be improved upon.

That's a good offensive/defensive strategy.......Not so much a good strategy with personnel IF the personnel is working.......Though honestly I have not gone back over the game to give my opinion on Shipleys performance today.

 

Personally in my opinion if by chance Thornton will be out a couple weeks and if Holmes is healthy I'd rather see him in at Guard.....I think do to his mobility he would make a heck of a Guard assuming he was consistent with proper technique

[Jason_]

That's a good offensive/defensive strategy.......Not so much a good strategy with personnel IF the personnel is working......

Huh?

[1yrdandacloudofdust]

Put him @ guard and put the Rookie @ RT. Cherilus sucks

[Gavin]

Huh?

"Just because something isn't broken doesn't mean it can't be improved upon."

 

That's what you said:

 

"That's a good offensive/defensive strategy.......Not so much a good strategy with personnel IF the personnel is working.......Though honestly I have not gone back over the game to give my opinion on Shipleys performance today"

 

That's what my reply was to what you said...In other words...If the O Line as it is currently constructed is working without Holmes and with Shipley then so be it...It only matters if it works......To your point....It could work better (especially with Louis out of the line up) but it could be worse.

[bestQBever]

keep shipley, hope thornton comes back, and our O line is fine.

[GwinnettColt]

We should have never traded Shipley.  We should have benched Satele or at least checked him out at guard.  

 

The fourth quarter of the game today would have been the perfect time to try out Holmes. 

[Jason_]

"Just because something isn't broken doesn't mean it can't be improved upon."

That's what you said:

"That's a good offensive/defensive strategy.......Not so much a good strategy with personnel IF the personnel is working.......Though honestly I have not gone back over the game to give my opinion on Shipleys performance today"

That's what my reply was to what you said...In other words...If the O Line as it is currently constructed is working without Holmes and with Shipley then so be it...It only matters if it works......To your point....It could work better (especially with Louis out of the line up) but it could be worse.

Ok that's pretty much what I thought but wanted to confirm before saying that I do not agree.

No matter how well the OL is playing with Shipley at C, I would still want to know if it could be even better with holmes.

If the RBs are averaging 3.5 ypc with Shipley in, I'd still want to replace him if the RBs could average 4.5 with holmes.

if Shipley continues to outplay holmes then great, leave him as the starter. But I would not leave him as the starter if there is a potentially more talented player that could help elevate the OL to another level, just because Shipley has built some chemistry in 4 weeks. I'd rather get the more talented player in the lineup and let him start building chemistry with the group.

I'm also not saying holmes should just be handed the starting job once he's cleared. Let them battle it out in practice and may the best man win.

[Superman]

We should have never traded Shipley.  We should have benched Satele or at least checked him out at guard.  

 

The fourth quarter of the game today would have been the perfect time to try out Holmes. 

 

Holmes didn't dress.

[akcolt]

Why would we put Holmes anywhere? He has shown nothing in the NFL but an inability to stay healthy. Who says he is better than Shipley?

 

I think if he was as good as some seem to think he would have been at the very least active today. It looks like he is 3rd on the depth chart at C to me.

 

I haven't had a chance to watch today's game yet but I don't think the game to give Holmes a shot would be the Ravens I would think if we were interested in seeing what he could do it would have been today at home vs an inferior opponent. I would be surprised if he played next Sunday.

[1959Colts]

Holmes is a ghost.

[HarryTheCat]

Continue with Shipley and get Lance out of the lineup

Leave Holmes on the bench where he belongs

I'll second that thought.  AQ looked pretty solid on the plays where I specifically watched him instead of the ball. Lance was not all that impressive, but who do you plug in there in his place until Thornton is ready to go again? I'll have to go back and replay the game and pay more attention to the line play, but they seemed to be pretty solid as a unit.  Let's not mess with it just for the sake of getting Holmes some snaps.

[akcolt]

Ok that's pretty much what I thought but wanted to confirm before saying that I do not agree.

No matter how well the OL is playing with Shipley at C, I would still want to know if it could be even better with holmes.

If the RBs are averaging 3.5 ypc with Shipley in, I'd still want to replace him if the RBs could average 4.5 with holmes.

if Shipley continues to outplay holmes then great, leave him as the starter. But I would not leave him as the starter if there is a potentially more talented player that could help elevate the OL to another level, just because Shipley has built some chemistry in 4 weeks. I'd rather get the more talented player in the lineup and let him start building chemistry with the group.

I'm also not saying holmes should just be handed the starting job once he's cleared. Let them battle it out in practice and may the best man win.

Coaches have had the opportunity to watch both men play C and Harrison as well. There were 2 healthy inactives today Holmes and Rogers. I think that says something

 

I want the best guys on the field I would assume the coaches do to.

[Gavin]

Ok that's pretty much what I thought but wanted to confirm before saying that I do not agree.

No matter how well the OL is playing with Shipley at C, I would still want to know if it could be even better with holmes.

If the RBs are averaging 3.5 ypc with Shipley in, I'd still want to replace him if the RBs could average 4.5 with holmes.

if Shipley continues to outplay holmes then great, leave him as the starter. But I would not leave him as the starter if there is a potentially more talented player that could help elevate the OL to another level, just because Shipley has built some chemistry in 4 weeks. I'd rather get the more talented player in the lineup and let him start building chemistry with the group.

I'm also not saying holmes should just be handed the starting job once he's cleared. Let them battle it out in practice and may the best man win.

If you take away Lucks 13 carries for 53 yards you get the Colts rushing 83 times for 366...or 4.4ypc. I mean Im all for him starting of course but I'd rather put him in at RG if Thornton will be out an extended period of time do to Holmes mobility

[GwinnettColt]

Holmes didn't dress.

 

I know.  I was speaking hypothetically   ;)

[TKnight24]

I'll second that thought. AQ looked pretty solid on the plays where I specifically watched him instead of the ball. Lance was not all that impressive, but who do you plug in there in his place until Thornton is ready to go again? I'll have to go back and replay the game and pay more attention to the line play, but they seemed to be pretty solid as a unit. Let's not mess with it just for the sake of getting Holmes some snaps.

Yeah, maybe Harrison or Reitz in place until Thornton comes back.

And Shipley has been solid

[Malakai432]

Put him @ guard and put the Rookie @ RT. Cherilus sucks

Wow, I see you arm chair GM skills are sub par..... Go back to playing Madden.

When you do play Madden have you had success with replacing Cherilus with a banged up Homles?? Let me know, I'm interested to hear this.

[Jason_]

Coaches have had the opportunity to watch both men play C and Harrison as well. There were 2 healthy inactives today Holmes and Rogers. I think that says something

I want the best guys on the field I would assume the coaches do to.

You could very well be right and if that's the case then great. I don't have a preference between Shipley and holmes other than I want the best player on the field.

My whole position has simply been that I would not keep Shipley in the lineup just because "it's working".

[bellboys]

why take Shipley out. He has been playing very good along with the rest of the o-line. Luck is getting time to look down field and not having to run for his life like last year. Like someone here make a couple of good points Holmes can't stay healthy and if it isn't broke why mess with it.

[krunk]

I like Shipley, but it's hard to say he's outplayed a man who has been injured.  The coaches annointed Holmes as the starter, and they drafted him(using words from Grigson) "the center of the future".  Also because they know he can play.  I understand being cautious about making a change because you don't want to mess up the continuity, but at some point I think you have to let the guy prove himself.  I liked what I saw when he was able to play, and I don't think he somehow turns into a bum if we play him.

 

This is the same center that Luck went through an entire training camp with, and so did everyone else on the offensive line.  I don't think it will take him very long to get in sync with everyone else and that includes Luck.  I say give him a shot, heck Shipley came in here and played with a weeks worth of the offense. Are we saying a man whose been here the whole time and knows the entire offense will do that much worse?

[akcolt]

You could very well be right and if that's the case then great. I don't have a preference between Shipley and holmes other than I want the best player on the field.

My whole position has simply been that I would not keep Shipley in the lineup just because "it's working".

I agree with you and I would hope the coaches would be of the same mind set play the best players. For now I think we are going to have to trust that Shipley is the best option.

 

I really would like to see Holmes play in a game though even if it's at G. They talk the guy up like he is the next Mike Webster then he isn't even active over a two UDFA C's.

 

I am in no way pushing for a switch at anything on the O Line or trying to start a debate or argument. All I wanted was a line that keeps Luck up right and allows us to run the ball. We have that  I am happy just a little curious.

[NewColtsFan]

Should we go with Holmes or continue with Shipley?  What do you say?

 

No.   And Pagano has already said so.    He's basically said....    it ain't broke, so we ain't gonna fix it!    Those obviously weren't his exact words,  but that was the sentiment.

 

As long as we're producing,  there's no need to change.    Holmes is the back-up.   Period.

[krunk]

No.   And Pagano has already said so.    He's basically said....    it ain't broke, so we ain't gonna fix it!    Those obviously weren't his exact words,  but that was the sentiment.

 

As long as we're producing,  there's no need to change.    Holmes is the back-up.   Period.

 

I don't believe that.  There was nothing dominating about our running game today to say that if we took Shipley out it would be some type of catastrophe.   Our running game was not that productive today.  I'm not calling for Shipleys' head and I'm not going to trip if they play him, but I don't think things are at the point where you can't entertain putting holmes back in the spot that he earned.

[Superman]

I don't believe that.  There was nothing dominating about our running game today to say that if we took Shipley out it would be some type of catastrophe.   Our running game was not that productive today.  I'm not calling for Shipleys' head and I'm not going to trip if they play him, but I don't think things are at the point where you can't entertain putting holmes back in the spot that he earned.

 

To me, the point of emphasis is the guard play. When the guards play well, the line does well. Even though Shipley hasn't been a world beater, IMO, his contributions are more meaningful when the guard play is good. Having Louis at RG today made Shipley's job harder, and I think he did a better job with his line calls and blitz pick ups than he has been through the first three weeks. But there was more pressure, and the run game struggled, so...

 

A really good center helps, but it's really the least physically demanding position on the line. Having a guy who knows what he's doing and can identify pressure is critical, but he's still dependent on good guard play. If Holmes is a really good center, then he'll be better than Shipley. But Holmes has never played, so it's hard to project him as a really good center. We won't know until he actually plays.

 

If Shipley makes line calls and picks up middle blitzes like he did today, and if Thornton is back in the lineup, then I'm good with Shipley staying in there.

[krunk]

To me, the point of emphasis is the guard play. When the guards play well, the line does well. Even though Shipley hasn't been a world beater, IMO, his contributions are more meaningful when the guard play is good. Having Louis at RG today made Shipley's job harder, and I think he did a better job with his line calls and blitz pick ups than he has been through the first three weeks. But there was more pressure, and the run game struggled, so...

 

A really good center helps, but it's really the least physically demanding position on the line. Having a guy who knows what he's doing and can identify pressure is critical, but he's still dependent on good guard play. If Holmes is a really good center, then he'll be better than Shipley. But Holmes has never played, so it's hard to project him as a really good center. We won't know until he actually plays.

 

If Shipley makes line calls and picks up middle blitzes like he did today, and if Thornton is back in the lineup, then I'm good with Shipley staying in there.

 

 

You're right about the guard play being the bigger factor.  There was a bit of a telling difference between Louis and Thornton.  That's part of why I don't think it will be a real big issue if Holmes were to go back in there.  I will mention again it's not a deal breaker for me if they keep Shipley in there as things likely will get closer to what we saw the last two weeks when Thornton returns to the line up. However there is a part of me that doesn't feel right about Holmes being here all this time and not getting to earn his keep, especially after he was named the starter.

[Dark Superman]

So I'm guessing Lance Louis didn't look good today?

[TKnight24]

I like Shipley, but it's hard to say he's outplayed a man who has been injured. The coaches annointed Holmes as the starter, and they drafted him(using words from Grigson) "the center of the future". Also because they know he can play. I understand being cautious about making a change because you don't want to mess up the continuity, but at some point I think you have to let the guy prove himself. I liked what I saw when he was able to play, and I don't think he somehow turns into a bum if we play him.

This is the same center that Luck went through an entire training camp with, and so did everyone else on the offensive line. I don't think it will take him very long to get in sync with everyone else and that includes Luck. I say give him a shot, heck Shipley came in here and played with a weeks worth of the offense. Are we saying a man whose been here the whole time and knows the entire offense will do that much worse?

And Holmes will have his chance to prove himself

1. If Shipley gets hurt

2. If Shipley starts stinking

3. Next Year's preseason

[John Waylon]

In all honesty, if he's healthy enough to do it, and Thornton is a no-go again, slide Shipley to guard and start Holmes at center.

Lance Louis was not at all impressive to me today.