Good call Grigson

[Valpo2004]

I feel like we talk more about Grigson's mistakes more then the things he made the right call and a lot of people get a negative opinion of him.  

 

He has made mistakes and they are well known and discussed here.

 

But lets talk about the things he got right that where either not obvious or at the very least not what the majority of fans wants.  (IE Drafting Andrew Luck doesn't count because it was too obvious)

 

I'll start but I have several that I could throw out there.

 

Drafting Jack Mewhort when most fans wanted Gabe Jackson.  Based on the rookie report in another thread Mewhort has outperformed Jackson by a wide margin.  Obviously all is not said and done but it bodes well - Good call Grigson

[cm43sports]

Drafting Dwayne Allen despite the fact he had drafted Fleener the round before.

 

Drafting Hilton

 

Drafting Moncrief despite the fact several posters (including myself) wanted a defensive player.

 

Trading a second round pick for Vontae Davis, who is arguably now a top five corner

 

Keeping Pep and therefore not changing offensive coordinators on Richardson and Luck for the third year in a row

 

Not panicking and making a desperation trade* when it was announced that Mathis was out

*of note, I don't believe that Richardson was a desperation trade, but rather Grigson buying low on a great prospect and despite the fact that to this point it hasn't worked as well as we would've hoped, I applaud him for the move

[ColtsHoosiersBB]

Grigs is doing a fine job running the program, he is paying a lot more attention to

the lines than Polian ever did. Drafting Mewhort as our first pick shows that he isn't

ignoring the trenches.

[21isSuperman]

I've been fairly critical of Grigson and I still maintain that position.  I'm not sold on his drafting ability quite yet, and I don't like the old-school mentality of being a run-first offense when we have Andrew Luck at QB.  However, the guy does everything he can to find talent.  We've found guys from the CFL, Arena League, even an overseas rugby player.  I also read somewhere that since 2012, when he first became our GM, he has been the most active GM in the league in terms of trades.  He obviously won't hit every time (and no GM in the history of the league has a perfect record), but he does everything he can to get more talent.

[swflacoltsfans]

Ordering fish tacos at wendy's was a really big mistake

[Valpo2004]

I've been fairly critical of Grigson and I still maintain that position.  I'm not sold on his drafting ability quite yet, and I don't like the old-school mentality of being a run-first offense when we have Andrew Luck at QB.  However, the guy does everything he can to find talent.  We've found guys from the CFL, Arena League, even an overseas rugby player.  I also read somewhere that since 2012, when he first became our GM, he has been the most active GM in the league in terms of trades.  He obviously won't hit every time (and no GM in the history of the league has a perfect record), but he does everything he can to get more talent.

 

I don't know if he's that active of a trader now.  I think a lot of that had to do with trying to put together a team.  

[B~Town]

He has assembled a very good team from scratch I'm a big fan f his . He may have missed a few picks and made a bad trade but you don't hit the HR if your not swinging and he has hit plenty of HR's .

[basketballsteve]

Claiming Jack Doyle, draft pick for Reyford, claiming Shipley, giving Freeman a chance, just to name a few more.

[Valpo2004]

Drafting Dwayne Allen despite the fact he had drafted Fleener the round before.

 

Drafting Hilton

 

Drafting Moncrief despite the fact several posters (including myself) wanted a defensive player.

 

Trading a second round pick for Vontae Davis, who is arguably now a top five corner

 

Keeping Pep and therefore not changing offensive coordinators on Richardson and Luck for the third year in a row

 

Not panicking and making a desperation trade* when it was announced that Mathis was out

*of note, I don't believe that Richardson was a desperation trade, but rather Grigson buying low on a great prospect and despite the fact that to this point it hasn't worked as well as we would've hoped, I applaud him for the move

 

Hmmm I got the impression that most people supported the Moncrief pick here.  

[Smonroe]

I've been fairly critical of Grigson and I still maintain that position.  I'm not sold on his drafting ability quite yet, and I don't like the old-school mentality of being a run-first offense when we have Andrew Luck at QB.  However, the guy does everything he can to find talent.  We've found guys from the CFL, Arena League, even an overseas rugby player.  I also read somewhere that since 2012, when he first became our GM, he has been the most active GM in the league in terms of trades.  He obviously won't hit every time (and no GM in the history of the league has a perfect record), but he does everything he can to get more talent.

 

I agree with you as far as them talking about it.  But in practice, we haven't been a run first offense. 

 

GMs are measured on how they lead the team in the long run, so it remains to be seen if his approach will continue to be successful.  So far, it's hard to argue the success.  And like everyone else, I thought trading a 1st round pick (or even using a 1st round pick) for a RB is foolish in today's NFL. 

 

Personally, I wanted us to sell out on the O-line and get the best FAs available, as well as use multiple draft picks there.  But people who know the NFL a lot better than me have always said you don't spend big money on interior linemen.  Hopefully this pays off for us, it sure looks like it so far.

 

IMHO, Grigs is doing a great job!

[csmopar]

Hmmm I got the impression that most people supported the Moncrief pick here.

Not at first. I was in the draft day chat room when he was announced and most were upset we didn't go OL or safety. After the draft, people started warming up to him more and now, they live him.

[cm43sports]

Hmmm I got the impression that most people supported the Moncrief pick here.  

After the pick was made, perhaps. I was more referring to before the pick was made. I like Moncrief as a pick but I, and some others, were hoping for a defensive playmaker.

[21isSuperman]

I don't know if he's that active of a trader now.  I think a lot of that had to do with trying to put together a team.  

That's possible.  He does seem more active than other GMs in trading (though, it's usually for lesser known players who are unlikely to have a big impact), but he does seem to have slowed down with his trades.

[21isSuperman]

I agree with you as far as them talking about it.  But in practice, we haven't been a run first offense. 

 

GMs are measured on how they lead the team in the long run, so it remains to be seen if his approach will continue to be successful.  So far, it's hard to argue the success.  And like everyone else, I thought trading a 1st round pick (or even using a 1st round pick) for a RB is foolish in today's NFL. 

 

Personally, I wanted us to sell out on the O-line and get the best FAs available, as well as use multiple draft picks there.  But people who know the NFL a lot better than me have always said you don't spend big money on interior linemen.  Hopefully this pays off for us, it sure looks like it so far.

 

IMHO, Grigs is doing a great job!

I wasn't really sold on the OL at the start of the season, but they've really proven me wrong.  Like you, I wanted us to invest a lot into the OL and Grigson didn't really do all that much for it this offseason.  However, the OL has performed really well, so you could say he didn't need to do a lot

[TKnight24]

Getting rid of Samson Satele

That was enough for me to never talk bad about Grigson unless he does an absolute bonehead move like trade Andrew or let Hilton walk (unless Hilton is asking for more $$ than he's worth then that's acceptable)

[TKnight24]

Not at first. I was in the draft day chat room when he was announced and most were upset we didn't go OL or safety. After the draft, people started warming up to him more and now, they live him.

Yep, a good 75% of the forum exploded and didn't like it

Funny. Cause of those posters felt we didn't need a WR and some were supporters of Da'Rick. Funny how Da'Rick doesn't even touch the field now

[Valpo2004]

Getting rid of Samson Satele

That was enough for me to never talk bad about Grigson unless he does an absolute bonehead move like trade Andrew or let Hilton walk (unless Hilton is asking for more $$ than he's worth then that's acceptable)

 

That one was kind of obvious though.  

[TKnight24]

That one was kind of obvious though.

Took 2 years for it to happen, wasn't too obvious

[SteelCityColt]

Well this makes a nice change, a thread with a positive premise! 

 

 

The good things I think Grigson has done:

 

• Blown up a team in cap hell and turned it around in record time to at least be competitive, People will argue this is pretty easy when you've got the number 1 pick and Andrew Luck sitting there. But look at teams like the Raiders, the Browns etc. How many "do overs" have they tried and look how they've worked out?
• His management of the cap/structuring of deals has been pretty savvy so far, and though people will argue, he's not really over payed any player excessively and has left us with plenty of room to cut our losses with players without too much dead cap exposure. Hopefully it will even out the bumps when people like Luck need paying and we don't end up being boom and bust. Or worse still Andrew Luck and 52 average Joes. 
• His drafting overall has been pretty solid, though 2013 wasn't much to right home about (yet). Bear in mind he's often been short handed on picks from previous trades, I'll be interested to see what he can do if we can ever get into the position, that IMO shows a FO doing a good job, that of stockpiling picks (think 49ers, Pats). 
• I've been very happily surprised and how the O-line has started to look, and we've gone from a horror show on the interior to a good young group who can develop together. That could turn out to be worth it's weight in gold. Still concerned about depth but hey ho.

 

Now he's not been perfect but when you consider what other GMs there are out there... maybe we shouldn't feel too hard done by. Would anyone like to have Jerry as their GM????

[Jason_]

I've been fairly critical of Grigson and I still maintain that position.  I'm not sold on his drafting ability quite yet, and I don't like the old-school mentality of being a run-first offense when we have Andrew Luck at QB.  However, the guy does everything he can to find talent.  We've found guys from the CFL, Arena League, even an overseas rugby player.  I also read somewhere that since 2012, when he first became our GM, he has been the most active GM in the league in terms of trades.  He obviously won't hit every time (and no GM in the history of the league has a perfect record), but he does everything he can to get more talent.

 

I don't recall Grigson, Pagano or even Pep ever saying they wanted to be a run-first offense.  Now sure, in some games they've come out trying to run the ball first, especially early-mid season last year.  Since then though they've come out throwing the ball more often than not.  All they've ever said that I can remember is they want to be able to run the ball and have an effective power running game, but as I said, I don't recall any of them ever saying they wanted to be a run-first or even a run-heavy offense.

[MTC]

I think the negatives still out weigh the positives. 

[21isSuperman]

I don't recall Grigson, Pagano or even Pep ever saying they wanted to be a run-first offense.  Now sure, in some games they've come out trying to run the ball first, especially early-mid season last year.  Since then though they've come out throwing the ball more often than not.  All they've ever said that I can remember is they want to be able to run the ball and have an effective power running game, but as I said, I don't recall any of them ever saying they wanted to be a run-first or even a run-heavy offense.

I don't know if they've ever said it, but I think their actions speak towards it, in my opinion.  Trading a first round pick for a RB means you have a lot invested in him and you want him to be a big part of your offense.  Then you have last year's adamant mindset of running the ball when it wasn't the right time for it.  I think they're starting to get away from that, which is nice, but the impression I got from what they did was that they wanted to be a run-first team.  But that's just my perception of things.  Perhaps I'm wrong here and they were never as determined to be a run-first team as I make it seem

[swifty1812]

I think the negatives still out weigh the positives. 

 

I would be curious to see you actually write out both of your lists of Positives and Negatives and compare.

 

Because I look at the young OL, the Weapons on offence, and the transition that we made to a 3-4 and I just don't see the negatives that alot of people around here have to say about him. I think everyone really just sees the Trent Richardson trade and Bjorn Werner not producing as well as they expect and see him as a failure, but not enough to outweight the good.

[Superman]

I don't know if they've ever said it, but I think their actions speak towards it, in my opinion.  Trading a first round pick for a RB means you have a lot invested in him and you want him to be a big part of your offense.  Then you have last year's adamant mindset of running the ball when it wasn't the right time for it.  I think they're starting to get away from that, which is nice, but the impression I got from what they did was that they wanted to be a run-first team.  But that's just my perception of things.  Perhaps I'm wrong here and they were never as determined to be a run-first team as I make it seem

 

I think there's a difference between wanting to be a run-first team and wanting to be a good running team. The emphasis has always been on being able to run the ball, and given how terrible we've been at that, it's going to be something that's talked about. But from his first draft, Grigson made sure to put receiving options around Andrew Luck, and has continued to add weapons each offseason. 

 

The resistance to this desire to have a good rushing attack is ironic, IMO, given how long the Colts have sucked at running the ball, and how many big games and playoff games it's cost us over the years. The reliance on the passing game was something fans have long been conflicted about, and now you have a staff that is devoting resources to having a more balanced offense, and their efforts get derided.

 

The execution of the offense hasn't been perfect; sometimes it's been absolutely backward. But I don't think the objective has ever been to be a run first offense. The objective has been to have a balanced offense that can be productive in different ways and under different circumstances. And I think that's a good thing.

[Superman]

I would be curious to see you actually write out both of your lists of Positives and Negatives and compare.

 

Because I look at the young OL, the Weapons on offence, and the transition that we made to a 3-4 and I just don't see the negatives that alot of people around here have to say about him. I think everyone really just sees the Trent Richardson trade and Bjorn Werner not producing as well as they expect and see him as a failure, but not enough to outweight the good.

 

Agreed.

 

Two years ago, we would have been happy to win 8 games. Many thought that wasn't possible. The very idea that the negatives could outweigh the positives for a GM who built a playoff team in 10 months, and that has been back to the playoffs and notched a win, it's just beyond me.

[Smonroe]

Agreed.

 

Two years ago, we would have been happy to win 8 games. Many thought that wasn't possible. The very idea that the negatives could outweigh the positives for a GM who built a playoff team in 10 months, and that has been back to the playoffs and notched a win, it's just beyond me.

 

I'm glad you said that, I was just going to ignore it as being either unrealistic or uninformed. 

 

Sometimes I'm just baffled by some of these posts, but most of the time I just laugh them off.  I still have to wonder if people would actually say some of the things out loud that they write here.

[PrincetonTiger]

Claiming Jack Doyle, draft pick for Reyford, claiming Shipley, giving Freeman a chance, just to name a few more.

Agreed

[crazycolt1]

I think the negatives still out weigh the positives. 

So with all the negative you feel explain how and why Grigs took a 2-14 team to a 11-5 team his first year with a huge dead cap space. Then took the team to another 11-5 record with a division crown and a playoff win. As it stands right now there are only 4 players left from the 2-14 team and two of them are kickers. I would really like to hear all these negatives you mention.

[NewColtsFan]

I've been fairly critical of Grigson and I still maintain that position.  I'm not sold on his drafting ability quite yet, and I don't like the old-school mentality of being a run-first offense when we have Andrew Luck at QB.  However, the guy does everything he can to find talent.  We've found guys from the CFL, Arena League, even an overseas rugby player.  I also read somewhere that since 2012, when he first became our GM, he has been the most active GM in the league in terms of trades.  He obviously won't hit every time (and no GM in the history of the league has a perfect record), but he does everything he can to get more talent.

 

 

How do you define being a run-first offense?

 

We've passed the ball more than we've run it in two of our three games.

 

And the only game we ran more,  was the Philly game,  and even that was only by the slim margin of 38-34.   And you had to know that was coming because we had to run the clock,  control the ball, and keep Philly's offense off the field.

 

Otherwise,  we're passing more than we're running.

 

I see us as trying to run effectively enough to keep defenses honest and from over-committing to stopping the pass.

 

And I think it will pay-off in the long-run.

[ColtsHoosiersBB]

Yep, a good 75% of the forum exploded and didn't like it

Funny. Cause of those posters felt we didn't need a WR and some were supporters of Da'Rick. Funny how Da'Rick doesn't even touch the field now

Well we had Hakeem on the team at that point so yeah, I was one of those posters. Moncrief may be

our best receiver on the team next year so I'm really liking the pick now.

[Jason_]

I don't know if they've ever said it, but I think their actions speak towards it, in my opinion.  Trading a first round pick for a RB means you have a lot invested in him and you want him to be a big part of your offense.  Then you have last year's adamant mindset of running the ball when it wasn't the right time for it.  I think they're starting to get away from that, which is nice, but the impression I got from what they did was that they wanted to be a run-first team.  But that's just my perception of things.  Perhaps I'm wrong here and they were never as determined to be a run-first team as I make it seem

 

True, but other actions brought in guys like Hilton, Allen, Fleener, Rogers, Whalen, Moncrief and Nicks.  I think they've been striving for balance, and being able to both run and pass the ball when they need to.  I don't think it was ever about creating a run-heavy, run-first type of offense.

[B~Town]

Yep, a good 75% of the forum exploded and didn't like it

Funny. Cause of those posters felt we didn't need a WR and some were supporters of Da'Rick. Funny how Da'Rick doesn't even touch the field now

Yes they did after drafting Mewhort then Moncrief they were calling for his head . I was one of the few that was very happy wasn't sold on Darick and you can never be sure about a WR coming of a ACL surgery  . Was surprised we didn't grab a safety but figured Grigs had a plan . 

[ColtsFanMikeC]

Well this makes a nice change, a thread with a positive premise! 

 

 

The good things I think Grigson has done:

 

• Blown up a team in cap hell and turned it around in record time to at least be competitive, People will argue this is pretty easy when you've got the number 1 pick and Andrew Luck sitting there. But look at teams like the Raiders, the Browns etc. How many "do overs" have they tried and look how they've worked out?
• His management of the cap/structuring of deals has been pretty savvy so far, and though people will argue, he's not really over payed any player excessively and has left us with plenty of room to cut our losses with players without too much dead cap exposure. Hopefully it will even out the bumps when people like Luck need paying and we don't end up being boom and bust. Or worse still Andrew Luck and 52 average Joes. 
• His drafting overall has been pretty solid, though 2013 wasn't much to right home about (yet). Bear in mind he's often been short handed on picks from previous trades, I'll be interested to see what he can do if we can ever get into the position, that IMO shows a FO doing a good job, that of stockpiling picks (think 49ers, Pats). 
• I've been very happily surprised and how the O-line has started to look, and we've gone from a horror show on the interior to a good young group who can develop together. That could turn out to be worth it's weight in gold. Still concerned about depth but hey ho.

 

Now he's not been perfect but when you consider what other GMs there are out there... maybe we shouldn't feel too hard done by. Would anyone like to have Jerry as their GM????

 

I think the 2013 draft/undrafted FA signings were fine -- we have 2 starters (Thornton and Werner), 1 player who is quite active and continuously improving (Montori Hughes), 1 player who they are calling our 'center of the future' who has unfortunately struggled with injury but has looked promising in glimpses (Holmes), 1 practice squad guy who we obviously thought highly enough of to keep in the organization (Price), and at least 4 others who have stuck around in the NFL (Brandon McManus, Kerwynn Williams, Daxton Swanson, Justice Cunningham and John Boyett -- I suspect Boyett would still be a Colt if he didn't get in trouble with the law) -- that is at least 10 guys who have stuck in the NFL  (I haven't tracked any of the other guys to see if they are sticking around anywhere) -- 4 of which are very valuable members to our active roster and I think all 4 players are still improving.  I'd call that a pretty solid draft.

 

I think a lot of people were a little nervous that we didn't do more in the offseason to address our OL -- but I give Grigs a lot of credit for that. He took care of a large part of that in 2013 by drafting Thornton and Holmes and trusting that they'd develop into quality NFL players.  So far, Thornton has looked good to me, and I am very happy to have Holmes as depth and haven't lost faith that he'll be a solid starter for us at some point in the not-so-distant future.  Don't forget we lost Donald Thomas (I expect Thomas will have a hard time making the team next year, and as you point out, we're lucky Grigs structured his deal so if we do part ways it's not gonna kill our cap).  I really like what Grigs did this draft with Mewhort and Harrison, as I think they're both versatile enough to play multiple positions and talented enough to stick around for a long while.

 

I don't know if they've ever said it, but I think their actions speak towards it, in my opinion.  Trading a first round pick for a RB means you have a lot invested in him and you want him to be a big part of your offense.  Then you have last year's adamant mindset of running the ball when it wasn't the right time for it.  I think they're starting to get away from that, which is nice, but the impression I got from what they did was that they wanted to be a run-first team.  But that's just my perception of things.  Perhaps I'm wrong here and they were never as determined to be a run-first team as I make it seem

 

 

I don't recall Grigson, Pagano or even Pep ever saying they wanted to be a run-first offense.  Now sure, in some games they've come out trying to run the ball first, especially early-mid season last year.  Since then though they've come out throwing the ball more often than not.  All they've ever said that I can remember is they want to be able to run the ball and have an effective power running game, but as I said, I don't recall any of them ever saying they wanted to be a run-first or even a run-heavy offense.

 

 

I think there's a difference between wanting to be a run-first team and wanting to be a good running team. The emphasis has always been on being able to run the ball, and given how terrible we've been at that, it's going to be something that's talked about. But from his first draft, Grigson made sure to put receiving options around Andrew Luck, and has continued to add weapons each offseason. 

 

The resistance to this desire to have a good rushing attack is ironic, IMO, given how long the Colts have sucked at running the ball, and how many big games and playoff games it's cost us over the years. The reliance on the passing game was something fans have long been conflicted about, and now you have a staff that is devoting resources to having a more balanced offense, and their efforts get derided.

 

The execution of the offense hasn't been perfect; sometimes it's been absolutely backward. But I don't think the objective has ever been to be a run first offense. The objective has been to have a balanced offense that can be productive in different ways and under different circumstances. And I think that's a good thing.

 

What Superman said! -- "The objective has been to have a balanced offense that can be productive in different ways and under different circumstances."

 

Let's not forget, a lot of our philosophy as a team comes from our coaching staff and the input they share with Grigs.  Pagano came from Baltimore, a team that showed they could win with a very strong defense and a strong running game.  We are nowhere near as run-oriented as the Ravens during Pagano's hey-day were, but I do think it is important, especially in the AFC to be able to run the ball, and more importantly control the clock and win in crappy weather.  The Peyton Manning era Colts were built to play on turf in a controlled/indoor environment, if we didn't get homefield advantage and had to go play in an outdoor environment we did not fair so well in the playoffs.  To have a team that can win in a shoot-out or win in a dog fight is a very good thing in this league.

[Dustin]

I don't know what narratives uou guys are trying to push, but the Moncrief pick was universally loved here.

[TKnight24]

Yes they did after drafting Mewhort then Moncrief they were calling for his head . I was one of the few that was very happy wasn't sold on Darick and you can never be sure about a WR coming of a ACL surgery . Was surprised we didn't grab a safety but figured Grigs had a plan .

Howell was the plan but I'd much rather him get his neck situation together than be the colts starting safety

[Coffeedrinker]

How do you define being a run-first offense?

 

We've passed the ball more than we've run it in two of our three games.

 

And the only game we ran more,  was the Philly game,  and even that was only by the slim margin of 38-34.   And you had to know that was coming because we had to run the clock,  control the ball, and keep Philly's offense off the field.

 

Otherwise,  we're passing more than we're running.

 

I see us as trying to run effectively enough to keep defenses honest and from over-committing to stopping the pass.

 

And I think it will pay-off in the long-run.

Even in that game, 4 of the runs were pass plays in which Luck ran with the ball, so they still called 38 pass plays to 34 run plays.

[throwing BBZ]

I feel like we talk more about Grigson's mistakes more then the things he made the right call and a lot of people get a negative opinion of him.  

 

He has made mistakes and they are well known and discussed here.

 

But lets talk about the things he got right that where either not obvious or at the very least not what the majority of fans wants.  (IE Drafting Andrew Luck doesn't count because it was too obvious)

 

I'll start but I have several that I could throw out there.

 

Drafting Jack Mewhort when most fans wanted Gabe Jackson.  Based on the rookie report in another thread Mewhort has outperformed Jackson by a wide margin.  Obviously all is not said and done but it bodes well - Good call Grigson

 

 Silly. Jackson could easily be a Pro Bowl player and Mewhort never be one.

[Jason_]

I don't know what narratives uou guys are trying to push, but the Moncrief pick was universally loved here.

Universally? No. By the majority? Perhaps but definitely not universally

[Dustin]

Universally? No. By the majority? Perhaps but definitely not universally

Wow, you take pedantic to a whole other level.

[SOMDColtsfan]

My biggest complaint with Grigs is/was the Oline. With Shipley in the line appeared to play better. Without Shipley, not too good. Then he traded him. I am glad he is back and it has turned out nicely for all concerned. Everywhere else on the roster IMO he has done well and upgraded. Walden was supposed to be awful and has turned out to be good. Losing Mathis, who has never had health issues, is huge for this defense. You don't replace guys like that on short notice. Interesting to see what the next offseason yields