Grigson talks about the team's approach to injuries

[Superman]

http://www.colts.com/videos/videos/Ryan_Grigson_Discusses_Training_Camp_Part_1/adede9db-4ece-42d5-a6a3-3a8ee3a0f59e

 

Toward the middle of this video, he talks about the technology. They have these antennae around the practice fields that tie into sensors that the players wear. These sensors can measure 10,000 micro-movements per second. The team uses them to monitor how much stress/usage a player is putting on his body, and then once those levels get elevated, they reduce the guys reps. (I'm assuming that leads to some "precautionary) days off, as well.

 

He also says they changed the way they do some things in the weight room, and so forth.

 

I've been wondering what kind of adjustments the team would make to try to help guys stay healthy, to whatever extent that's possible. It's good to hear that they are actively pursuing options and then implementing them.

[TKnight24]

Change the turf on the field, entirely too hard. I believe we should take the natural grass approach IMO

But yes it's refreshing to at least know they're aware of the problem and are trying to fix it. I say we steal the Eagles training staff. They might've been the most healthy team last year I believe

[21isSuperman]

That's interesting.  With things like that, I wonder how accurate they are.  If a player is jogging to get some water, does the sensor take that into account?  Or if he's walking up and down the sidelines?  There are so many complex motions in football that I feel it would be nearly impossible for a sensor to take it all into account.  But at least they are doing something about it

[crazycolt1]

Change the turf on the field, entirely too hard. I believe we should take the natural grass approach IMO

But yes it's refreshing to at least know they're aware of the problem and are trying to fix it. I say we steal the Eagles training staff. They might've been the most healthy team last year I believe

Have you ever walked on the turf in Lucas? It is not hard. Matter of fact it is softer than regular ground. If you would have said the turf may cause more injury then I could agree with that but not on it being hard. The Colts do practice on natural grass in Anderson. The only place they practice on hard turf is the practice facility on 56th st.

[TKnight24]

Have you ever walked on the turf in Lucas? It is not hard. Matter of fact it is softer than regular ground. If you would have said the turf may cause more injury then I could agree with that but not on it being hard. The Colts do practice on natural grass in Anderson. The only place they practice on hard turf is the practice facility on 56th st.

We should do what the Cardinals do (If they still do it). I believe they roll out rolls of natural grass before the game. Had a segment on NFL network about it when I was in 10th grade I think. I don't know if they still do that though

[jvan1973]

We should do what the Cardinals do (If they still do it). I believe they roll out rolls of natural grass before the game. Had a segment on NFL network about it when I was in 10th grade I think. I don't know if they still do that though

Lucas oil isnt set up for that. The turf the colts use is the same as other teams use in indoor facilities

[dylan8678]

We should do what the Cardinals do (If they still do it). I believe they roll out rolls of natural grass before the game. Had a segment on NFL network about it when I was in 10th grade I think. I don't know if they still do that though

 

The weather is pretty much the same between Arizona and Indianapolis in the winter.  My yard grows really nice under all the snow and ice.  

[Superman]

That's interesting.  With things like that, I wonder how accurate they are.  If a player is jogging to get some water, does the sensor take that into account?  Or if he's walking up and down the sidelines?  There are so many complex motions in football that I feel it would be nearly impossible for a sensor to take it all into account.  But at least they are doing something about it

 

I think the major stresses are on the legs, hips and back, and come from running and colliding. So the sensor should take into account a jog to get water, I think. That's wear and tear, though minimal. And compared to all the actual running they do in practice, it probably hardly registers. Also, the sensors pick up on how fast the player is moving, so I'd bet there's some kind of weighted approach that acknowledges the difference between high intensity and low intensity. 

 

Can't get everything, but more data is better than less data, I think. And the alternative is the old school football approach -- go harder, do more, show me you want it, dig deep, push, don't give up, etc. This is basically the opposite of that, and it's in an effort to keep guys from hurting themselves during camp. 

[lollygagger8]

The weather is pretty much the same between Arizona and Indianapolis in the winter.  My yard grows really nice under all the snow and ice.  

 

Hahhaha.....my yard looks great underneath this ice berg! 

[Bravo]

Change the turf on the field, entirely too hard. I believe we should take the natural grass approach IMO

But yes it's refreshing to at least know they're aware of the problem and are trying to fix it. I say we steal the Eagles training staff. They might've been the most healthy team last year I believe

I played at Lucus Oil Stadium 3 times in high school. 2 times regular season games and 1 for a state championship. I loved their turf.

The turf is actually really soft and should actually be more injury free than grass especially for concussions. I know it doesn't seem like that but that's how it's suppose to work.

Most turf is suppose to be safer, softer, and make players faster. The biggest issue with any turf is that it spreads infections easier such as MRSA and other skin infections so players have to be careful with that! Also turf burns hurt.

Bravo just sharing his knowledge...

[21isSuperman]

I think the major stresses are on the legs, hips and back, and come from running and colliding. So the sensor should take into account a jog to get water, I think. That's wear and tear, though minimal. And compared to all the actual running they do in practice, it probably hardly registers. Also, the sensors pick up on how fast the player is moving, so I'd bet there's some kind of weighted approach that acknowledges the difference between high intensity and low intensity. 

 

Can't get everything, but more data is better than less data, I think. And the alternative is the old school football approach -- go harder, do more, show me you want it, dig deep, push, don't give up, etc. This is basically the opposite of that, and it's in an effort to keep guys from hurting themselves during camp. 

I really agreed with what Grigs said in the video about so much of it being out of your control.  It's good to combat what you want to prevent injuries, but I feel like a lot of it is unpredictable and uncontrollable. 

[Superman]

I really agreed with what Grigs said in the video about so much of it being out of your control.  It's good to combat what you want to prevent injuries, but I feel like a lot of it is unpredictable and uncontrollable. 

 

Yeah, traumatic injuries just can't be avoided. It's still football; guys are going to get hurt. But I think the newer thinking is that emphasis on rest and recovery is going to reduce the occurrence of minor, nagging injuries, like hamstrings, slight muscle tears, etc., that are often caused by overuse. And you can't totally avoid those, either, but at least you can try to keep guys from pushing too hard. 

 

Whether it actually pays off for the team, only time will tell. I'm mostly glad that the team is embracing some new thinking and new technology in hopes of staving off some of the injuries that have hurt the team in recent years. 

[jskinnz]

http://www.colts.com/videos/videos/Ryan_Grigson_Discusses_Training_Camp_Part_1/adede9db-4ece-42d5-a6a3-3a8ee3a0f59e

 

Toward the middle of this video, he talks about the technology. They have these antennae around the practice fields that tie into sensors that the players wear. These sensors can measure 10,000 micro-movements per second. The team uses them to monitor how much stress/usage a player is putting on his body, and then once those levels get elevated, they reduce the guys reps. (I'm assuming that leads to some "precautionary) days off, as well.

 

He also says they changed the way they do some things in the weight room, and so forth.

 

I've been wondering what kind of adjustments the team would make to try to help guys stay healthy, to whatever extent that's possible. It's good to hear that they are actively pursuing options and then implementing them.

 

They did another study that led them to believe that a softer camp with less practices in pads should produce fewer injuries as well.  Couple that with your post about tech and they are doing what they can to practice injury prevention.  I would also imagine they have looked into nutrition and its impact. 

 

The simple fact is that injuries just happen.  And there was so much noise over the years and particularly after Ballard and DT went down about firing the strength coach or the doctors - it was utter nonsense.  The very success that we all want for the Colts is dependent upon health and the suggestion that somehow they were lax about it was comical.

[TKnight24]

I played at Lucus Oil Stadium 3 times in high school. 2 times regular season games and 1 for a state championship. I loved their turf.

The turf is actually really soft and should actually be more injury free than grass especially for concussions. I know it doesn't seem like that but that's how it's suppose to work.

Most turf is suppose to be safer, softer, and make players faster. The biggest issue with any turf is that it spreads infections easier such as MRSA and other skin infections so players have to be careful with that! Also turf burns hurt.

Bravo just sharing his knowledge...

Never been in Indy just watching at home the field seems so hard. Like when Jamal Charles hit his head in the playoff game. It's like the tackle didn't do nothing but his head hitting is what caused the injury

[Coffeedrinker]

I can't watch the video at work but I'm guessing, based on the amount of injuries the Colts have had since he became the GM, that he is all for them (injuries) and supports them anyway he can.

 

I'm kidding.

 

Injuries cannot be avoided.  But when a team is near the top of league in # of injuries (especially season ending injuries) year after year you have to look at the entire process from top to bottom and discover the cause or causes.

[21isSuperman]

I'm interested to know what we were doing under Polian to combat injuries.  I read somewhere that during Polian's time, the Colts were one of the most injured teams in the league

[Smonroe]

I played at Lucus Oil Stadium 3 times in high school. 2 times regular season games and 1 for a state championship. I loved their turf.

The turf is actually really soft and should actually be more injury free than grass especially for concussions. I know it doesn't seem like that but that's how it's suppose to work.

Most turf is suppose to be safer, softer, and make players faster. The biggest issue with any turf is that it spreads infections easier such as MRSA and other skin infections so players have to be careful with that! Also turf burns hurt.

Bravo just sharing his knowledge...

Good to know. I ran on it last year at the end of a 5k. I picked up some of the "pebbles" and it's easy to see how it's so different from the old stuff that caused so many injuries. I jumped up and down yo get a fell for the stiffness. I thought it was as soft as real grass fields I used to play on.

I didn't think about infections. Do they irradiate the field with UV light periodically? I know they moved the field from the Dome, they must have to clean it.

[Smonroe]

I'm interested to know what we were doing under Polian to combat injuries.  I read somewhere that during Polian's time, the Colts were one of the most injured teams in the league

We still are, right? People wanted to blame it on us having smaller, faster guys. But I think that was disproven.

If the Eagles have another relatively injury free year, we have to study their program.

[Coffeedrinker]

They did another study that led them to believe that a softer camp with less practices in pads should produce fewer injuries as well.  Couple that with your post about tech and they are doing what they can to practice injury prevention.  I would also imagine they have looked into nutrition and its impact. 

 

The simple fact is that injuries just happen.  And there was so much noise over the years and particularly after Ballard and DT went down about firing the strength coach or the doctors - it was utter nonsense.  The very success that we all want for the Colts is dependent upon health and the suggestion that somehow they were lax about it was comical.

Jskinnz, I typically agree with everything you say and I do for the most part on this post as well.  I don't think the staff is being lax in regards to injury prevention but they don't seem to be the best unit in the country either.

 

Like I stated above, when a team is near the top in injuries something is not right.  It may be the ST&C coaches it may be something in the facility, it may be the doctors refuse to use some drug or something other teams use.  I don't know.  While I agree the Colts are not doing it on purpose or not paying appropriate attention to it, they are not figuring it out either.

[Bravo]

Good to know. I ran on it last year at the end of a 5k. I picked up some of the "pebbles" and it's easy to see how it's so different from the old stuff that caused so many injuries. I jumped up and down yo get a fell for the stiffness. I thought it was as soft as real grass fields I used to play on.

I didn't think about infections. Do they irradiate the field with UV light periodically? I know they moved the field from the Dome, they must have to clean it.

Yeah there have for sure been many improvements from the old turf! The new turf is much improved. Also that's a really good question! I'm not sure what they do to clean the turf! I'm assuming they must.. That would be a good thing to find out.

[Bravo]

Never been in Indy just watching at home the field seems so hard. Like when Jamal Charles hit his head in the playoff game. It's like the tackle didn't do nothing but his head hitting is what caused the injury

Yeah I guess some injuries are just going to happen. Obviously it's still ground. I'm assuming even if he was on grass he still would have gotten a concussion. But I can see how it seems that it isn't any better.

[jskinnz]

Jskinnz, I typically agree with everything you say and I do for the most part on this post as well.  I don't think the staff is being lax in regards to injury prevention but they don't seem to be the best unit in the country either.

 

Like I stated above, when a team is near the top in injuries something is not right.  It may be the ST&C coaches it may be something in the facility, it may be the doctors refuse to use some drug or something other teams use.  I don't know.  While I agree the Colts are not doing it on purpose or not paying appropriate attention to it, they are not figuring it out either.

 

The trend is worrisome but it has also spanned two separate staffs and philosophies which leads me to think that much of this is just rotten luck.

[21isSuperman]

We still are, right? People wanted to blame it on us having smaller, faster guys. But I think that was disproven.

If the Eagles have another relatively injury free year, we have to study their program.

I'm not sure what current trends are.  We did lead the league with 17 guys on IR last year though.

[Superman]

We still are, right? People wanted to blame it on us having smaller, faster guys. But I think that was disproven.

If the Eagles have another relatively injury free year, we have to study their program.

 

It seems like they have studied the Eagles program. 

[Smonroe]

It seems like they have studied the Eagles program.

How so?

[Coffeedrinker]

The trend is worrisome but it has also spanned two separate staffs and philosophies which leads me to think that much of this is just rotten luck.

Rotten luck year after year?  That is a bit hard to swallow.  The only constant over the last two FOs has been the contracted medical staff which is from Methodist Sports Medicine.  Maybe it's time to sign a contract with a different org.

[Superman]

How so?

 

I guess that's not the right way to say what I was trying to say. What I mean is that the Colts seem to be doing some of the same things the Eagles started doing, which center around rest and recovery. The Eagles still have some other methods that I haven't seen/heard much of from the Colts.

[Superman]

Rotten luck year after year?  That is a bit hard to swallow.  The only constant over the last two FOs has been the contracted medical staff which is from Methodist Sports Medicine.  Maybe it's time to sign a contract with a different org.

 

What good would that do?

[jskinnz]

Rotten luck year after year?  That is a bit hard to swallow.  The only constant over the last two FOs has been the contracted medical staff which is from Methodist Sports Medicine.  Maybe it's time to sign a contract with a different org.

 

I don't believe that at all. 

 

Again, the very essence of the team's success is its health.  I am sure they have closely examined every conceivable avenue to maintain their players health, including the medical staff. 

[a06cc]

Lucas oil isnt set up for that. The turf the colts use is the same as other teams use in indoor facilities

They have it set up for grass. I remember them have the drains under the field for it. Turf is cheaper to maintain than grass though. That's why they went that route.

[Coffeedrinker]

What good would that do?

 

 

I don't believe that at all. 

 

Again, the very essence of the team's success is its health.  I am sure they have closely examined every conceivable avenue to maintain their players health, including the medical staff. 

Do you guys really think all medical staffs are created equal or approach all problems the same?

 

To answer your question Superman, I don't know it may not be a medical staff issue.  But again when you are near the top of the league year after year on injuries something SHOULD change.  As pointed out by others the problem has been going on before the current FO.  If that is the case then you have to look at things that are common to both groups.  Then you change one item and see if there is improvement, if not you change another item until the problem is solved.  In this case the solution is not an absence of injuries but a reduction to be more around the league average.

 

Jskinnz, I will answer your question with a question.  From conversations of yours that I have had with you and others that I have read, you appear to be a very intelligent, thorough person.  When was the last time you changed your insurance company?  That is just an example to illustrate that sometimes it's easier to go with the status quo... it's safer.  What if you change insurance companies, you get in a car accident and they don't handle your claim well.  For the Colts what if they change medical affiliations and they get more injuries?

 

It's typical problem solving guys.  You identify a problem, you examine the problem, you develop theories as to the cause or causes of the problem, you test the theories based on known information obtained while examining the problem.  What ever theories are left after that phase then you make a change.  Then after the changes you examine the results and determine if it was a positive change, a negative change or a neutral change.  If it's a positive or neutral change then you keep it and attack the next theory.  And you keep doing that until the overall result is where you want it.  The Colts are doing that in part this year with the monitoring that is a good step but some of that doesn't pass the logic test.  For example, in racing they don't develop safer cars by building them and then waiting to see how they do in a race, they build them and crash them and study the results.  That is a bit harder to do with the human body but it doesn't make a lot of sense that in a sport that his based on hard hits to not subject the body to hard hits until a game.  The body has to get used to that type of abuse to withstand it.  Just like jumping into cold water.  You don't jump in and then get right back out and jump in again later, you jump in and stay in until your body is used to it.

[Coffeedrinker]

They have it set up for grass. I remember them have the drains under the field for it. Turf is cheaper to maintain than grass though. That's why they went that route.

They still need drains under the field even if it was just designed for turf. The new turf is porous and if water gets in there it still has to go somewhere.

[jvan1973]

They have it set up for grass. I remember them have the drains under the field for it. Turf is cheaper to maintain than grass though. That's why they went that route.

they can't have grass because the venue hosts multiple events every year that aren't football related

[HtownColt]

We should do what the Cardinals do (If they still do it). I believe they roll out rolls of natural grass before the game. Had a segment on NFL network about it when I was in 10th grade I think. I don't know if they still do that though

Texans do that, their grass is looks terrible with all the different patches of grass so noticeable. The Rodeo has huge influence over that though

they bring in turf for the Texas HS playoff games there though.

[throwing BBZ]

We still are, right? People wanted to blame it on us having smaller, faster guys. But I think that was disproven.

If the Eagles have another relatively injury free year, we have to study their program.

 

 Gee, maybe we should have Grigson talk to someone who has been around their program for a long time.

[Smonroe]

Gee, maybe we should have Grigson talk to someone who has been around their program for a long time.

I get your joke, but Kelly brought in a new staff with him. Grigs never worked with them.

I don't know much about the training regiment, but it seemed to work for them last season. Could have been luck. All I know is that we're always in the top quarter of most injured teams.

Coffee stated it pretty well above, all aspects have to be studied.

[ColtsHoosiersBB]

Yeah, traumatic injuries just can't be avoided. It's still football; guys are going to get hurt. But I think the newer thinking is that emphasis on rest and recovery is going to reduce the occurrence of minor, nagging injuries, like hamstrings, slight muscle tears, etc., that are often caused by overuse. And you can't totally avoid those, either, but at least you can try to keep guys from pushing too hard. 

 

Whether it actually pays off for the team, only time will tell. I'm mostly glad that the team is embracing some new thinking and new technology in hopes of staving off some of the injuries that have hurt the team in recent years. 

This^^^ Even though these guys are well oiled machines, the body needs to repair itself. The very best way is

plenty of rest. The coaching staff seems to be giving certain guys days off which I think is a good thing since

they already know the system and don't need the practice as much as a new guy.

 

The season is a marathon and not a sprint, we need the team healthy for the long haul.

[Superman]

Do you guys really think all medical staffs are created equal or approach all problems the same?

 

To answer your question Superman, I don't know it may not be a medical staff issue.  But again when you are near the top of the league year after year on injuries something SHOULD change.  As pointed out by others the problem has been going on before the current FO.  If that is the case then you have to look at things that are common to both groups.  Then you change one item and see if there is improvement, if not you change another item until the problem is solved.  In this case the solution is not an absence of injuries but a reduction to be more around the league average.

 

Jskinnz, I will answer your question with a question.  From conversations of yours that I have had with you and others that I have read, you appear to be a very intelligent, thorough person.  When was the last time you changed your insurance company?  That is just an example to illustrate that sometimes it's easier to go with the status quo... it's safer.  What if you change insurance companies, you get in a car accident and they don't handle your claim well.  For the Colts what if they change medical affiliations and they get more injuries?

 

It's typical problem solving guys.  You identify a problem, you examine the problem, you develop theories as to the cause or causes of the problem, you test the theories based on known information obtained while examining the problem.  What ever theories are left after that phase then you make a change.  Then after the changes you examine the results and determine if it was a positive change, a negative change or a neutral change.  If it's a positive or neutral change then you keep it and attack the next theory.  And you keep doing that until the overall result is where you want it.  The Colts are doing that in part this year with the monitoring that is a good step but some of that doesn't pass the logic test.  For example, in racing they don't develop safer cars by building them and then waiting to see how they do in a race, they build them and crash them and study the results.  That is a bit harder to do with the human body but it doesn't make a lot of sense that in a sport that his based on hard hits to not subject the body to hard hits until a game.  The body has to get used to that type of abuse to withstand it.  Just like jumping into cold water.  You don't jump in and then get right back out and jump in again later, you jump in and stay in until your body is used to it.

 

Help me understand the role that Methodist Sports Medicine plays in caring for Colts players. To me, it's limited to evaluating injured players, performing and reading scans, performing operations, and clearing them for football activity. They may also be responsible for rehab of injured players.

 

If I'm right, they have nothing to do with the rash of injuries. Looking at them regarding the recovery of injured players is reasonable, but I think our major problem is the occurrence of injuries to begin with, not the re-occurrence of injuries. We're dismayed because our guys get hurt, not because they keep getting hurt. There are only a couple of repeat injuries, and even though they are players we anticipated major contributions from, by themselves, they don't represent a major percentage of our players.

[Superman]

This^^^ Even though these guys are well oiled machines, the body needs to repair itself. The very best way is

plenty of rest. The coaching staff seems to be giving certain guys days off which I think is a good thing since

they already know the system and don't need the practice as much as a new guy.

 

The season is a marathon and not a sprint, we need the team healthy for the long haul.

 

Absolutely, especially the bolded. I really don't care very much that Landry and Davis have been held back. It's the first couple weeks of camp. No sense in them being out there flying around right now, but unavailable for the start of the season because of a nagging injury that wasn't given enough time to heal. Or having to deal with that nagging injury all season long, when we can just let them get it together right now, and hopefully get the problem behind them. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Yeah, traumatic injuries just can't be avoided. It's still football; guys are going to get hurt. But I think the newer thinking is that emphasis on rest and recovery is going to reduce the occurrence of minor, nagging injuries, like hamstrings, slight muscle tears, etc., that are often caused by overuse. And you can't totally avoid those, either, but at least you can try to keep guys from pushing too hard. 

 

Whether it actually pays off for the team, only time will tell. I'm mostly glad that the team is embracing some new thinking and new technology in hopes of staving off some of the injuries that have hurt the team in recent years. 

 

I'd agree more if you inserted the word 'some' or 'most' in there.  I believe there is also a skill set to reducing injuries, and one is in training camp being at optimal weight and in shape (not necessarily game shape) to start camp.  Pete Carrol and Seahawks sent a loud message about this and waive/injured Michael Bowie-

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/seattle-seahawks/post/_/id/7559/waiving-bowie-sent-a-message

 

I like that they are studying things  more and trying to reduce injuries more.  Seems to be so many soft tissue injuries already this year, and preseason is just beginning.