Ray Rice Suspended

[PrincetonTiger]

Sounds like RG is catching it for this slight punishment

[PrincetonTiger]

So let me get this straight. Rice punches a woman, gets suspended two games. Mathis takes pills to have a child, gets suspended 4 games. Anyone else see something wrong with this

Agreed

[amfootball]

How do you know, you where not there.  

 

Now I admit that most likely his response was not proportional and so he is culpable for that.  But he's still less culpable then her presuming she started it.  

 

And Jay-Z's bodyguard is a lot bigger then Ray Rice and he was having trouble with Jay-Z's sister in law. . . And she wasn't attacking him which is an advantage because all he had to do was hold her back not try to attempt to stop attacks from 4 different limbs at once.

That's just it. You are presuming here as well. So not sure what your point really is. He did knock her so his response was wrong and not proportional.

[Gramz]

You make it sound like I relish the counter violence.  I'm saying there are consequences to starting a violent confrontation and counter violence is one.  

 

The old may not have the same mental capacity.  

 

And quite frankly I don't think I've ever seen a person who's disabled but fully mentally capable start a violent attack.  However if they did and where fully mentally capable then, they start the attack it's their fault when they get hurt doing it.

Nothing wrong with "this" old lady's mental capacity...   And I am thankful for the boys I raised and their respect for the women in their lives.

[Bobbycovert]

How do you know, you where not there.  

 

Now I admit that most likely his response was not proportional and so he is culpable for that.  But he's still less culpable then her presuming she started it.  

 

And Jay-Z's bodyguard is a lot bigger then Ray Rice and he was having trouble with Jay-Z's sister in law. . . And she wasn't attacking him which is an advantage because all he had to do was hold her back not try to attempt to stop attacks from 4 different limbs at once.

 

You make it sound like I relish the counter violence.  I'm saying there are consequences to starting a violent confrontation and counter violence is one.  

 

The old may not have the same mental capacity.  

 

And quite frankly I don't think I've ever seen a person who's disabled but fully mentally capable start a violent attack.  However if they did and where fully mentally capable then, they start the attack it's their fault when they get hurt doing it.

I guess we just live by different rules.  I'm not gonna debate this anymore. It is sort of depressing that I have to.

[PrincetonTiger]

I guess we just live by different rules.  I'm not gonna debate this anymore. It is sort of depressing that I have to.

nicely put

[Valpo2004]

Nothing wrong with "this" old lady's mental capacity...   And I am thankful for the boys I raised and their respect for the women in their lives.

 

I respect women more then you respect them.

 

Respect means believing they are adults and can make good decisions and face the consequences of the bad ones. 

 

I'd never start a fight with anyone, which is a big reason why I've never been in a fight with anyone.  But if a woman hits me I'm going to defend myself.

[Valpo2004]

I guess we just live by different rules.  I'm not gonna debate this anymore. It is sort of depressing that I have to.

 

Yeah my rules actually confer adult status on women.  You infantilize them.  

 

If she hit him first then 2 games is the right punishment I would say.

 

If he started it then it's clearly way too low.

[Gramz]

I respect women more then you respect them.

 

Respect means believing they are adults and can make good decisions and face the consequences of the bad ones. 

 

I'd never start a fight with anyone, which is a big reason why I've never been in a fight with anyone.  But if a woman hits me I'm going to defend myself.

WOW  ~  just  WOW  

 

 Where on Earth do you get that I don't respect women....???  

[NFLfan]

I think if a woman hits him first he has every right to respond violently in proportion to stop her attacks. Yes. (I'm saying this as a general rule I honestly have no idea what happened between Rice and his wife.)

To say that he should just walk away is silly. First of all walking away isn't always an option and secondly saying that infantilizes women. If women are adults capable of making decisions that have adult consequences and dealing with those adult consequences then they should not at any point be shielded from those consequences. If I go up and hit Ray Rice I'd expect he'd hit me back and given that he's a professional football player and I'm a slightly overweight guy who's entirely un-athletic I would expect that he would likely win that fight.

Of course personally I wouldn't walk up and hit anyone no matter what I felt my odds where of winning. Because I don't believe in starting violent confrontations.

The first grown up rule about violence is that it's not a good idea to start violent confrontations because if you do you could end up hurt. I think women can handle those consequences.

I completely disagree with you, but you have been consistent in your sentiments about interpersonal violence. There have been at least 3 threads that I could remember where you have strongly defended your position. In this case, no one knows what precipitated Rice's knocking out his girlfriend but she appeared unconscious in an elevator. He did not deny that he struck her. He should have received more than a 2 game suspension. JMO

[Thewholefnshow28]

Glad to see where the NFL stands. Knocking your fiancé unconscious is not as bad as smoking pot and getting caught twice. Unless his fiancé had a weapon of some sort there is no reason for a professional football player to put his hands on a woman.

[The Old Crow]

Here's the deal, Ray was wrong. He prpbably should have gotten four games, but got two. The fact that both he and his wife were inebriated and both were out of line , does not make it right or better, but it would have gone down harder had it been a woman he didn't know. Both of them entered anger management and marriage counseling classes. Ray also admitted his guilt, and is going through additional classes and community service. His wife did not want to press charges.

Contrast this, with another guy we know who doesn't admit he did anything wrong, and has his lawyers move back trial dates. I have more sympathy for Mathis, who should have gotten less. If he was legitimately using the drugs to have a child, then that should have been taken into consideration and his suspension reduced or mitigated.

[Valpo2004]

WOW  ~  just  WOW  

 

 Where on Earth do you get that I don't respect women....???  

 

Based on your statements you are advocating that women should be protected from the consequences of starting violent confrontations.  That treats them like children.

 

See I believe women, adult women don't need to be treated like children when it comes to the consequences of violence.  When you start a violent confrontation, you could get hurt. 

[Gramz]

Here's the deal, Ray was wrong. He prpbably should have gotten four games, but got two. The fact that both he and his wife were inebriated and both were out of line , does not make it right or better, but it would have gone down harder had it been a woman he didn't know. Both of them entered anger management and marriage counseling classes. Ray also admitted his guilt, and is going through additional classes and community service. His wife did not want to press charges.

Contrast this, with another guy we know who doesn't admit he did anything wrong, and has his lawyers move back trial dates. I have more sympathy for Mathis, who should have gotten less. If he was legitimately using the drugs to have a child, then that should have been taken into consideration and his suspension reduced or mitigated.

Leave it to you, to turn this into a thread about Irsay...  Good Grief.

[BrentMc11]

So let me get this straight. Rice punches a woman, gets suspended two games. Mathis takes pills to have a child, gets suspended 4 games. Anyone else see something wrong with this

[PrincetonTiger]

Here's the deal, Ray was wrong. He prpbably should have gotten four games, but got two. The fact that both he and his wife were inebriated and both were out of line , does not make it right or better, but it would have gone down harder had it been a woman he didn't know. Both of them entered anger management and marriage counseling classes. Ray also admitted his guilt, and is going through additional classes and community service. His wife did not want to press charges.

Contrast this, with another guy we know who doesn't admit he did anything wrong, and has his lawyers move back trial dates. I have more sympathy for Mathis, who should have gotten less. If he was legitimately using the drugs to have a child, then that should have been taken into consideration and his suspension reduced or mitigated.

Ugh

[Valpo2004]

I completely disagree with you, but you have been consistent in your sentiments about interpersonal violence. There have been at least 3 threads that I could remember where you have strongly defended your position. In this case, no one knows what precipitated Rice's knocking out his girlfriend but she appeared unconscious in an elevator. He did not deny that he struck her. He should have received more than a 2 game suspension. JMO

 

If he struck first then I completely agree.  But given that his wife has also apologized it sounds like that wasn't the case. 

[Gramz]

Based on your statements you are advocating that women should be protected from the consequences of starting violent confrontations.  That treats them like children.

 

See I believe women, adult women don't need to be treated like children when it comes to the consequences of violence.  When you start a violent confrontation, you could get hurt. 

I am not advocating any such thing.   My statement was,  I am thankful that I raised my boys to respect the women in their lives.  Period.   Respect never results in knocking the crap out of someone,  or laying a hand on them at all.   

 

Please, in the future,  don't pretend to know you know what I think, or feel... and I'll show you the same in return.

[PrincetonTiger]

Dan Dakich is not happy

[The Old Crow]

Leave it to you, to turn this into a thread about Irsay... Good Grief.

I have news for you, it's going to come up because all the players and press will be comparing his treatment, with that of Rice, Mathis , and others. If you think that isn't the case, you are deluding yourself. It's completely relevant .

[NewColtsFan]

How do you know, you where not there.  

 

Now I admit that most likely his response was not proportional and so he is culpable for that.  But he's still less culpable then her presuming she started it.  If I attacked Ray Rice no one would be worried about a disproportional response.

 

Lets up it and say I attacked an NFL offensive lineman.  I'm a chubby 225. . . an NFL offensive lineman probably has a greater size advantage over me then the 5'7" Ray Rice has over his wife.  If I went and tried to punch a 300 pound NFL offensive lineman. . . how many people do you think would be feeling sorry for me after he laid my butt out?  I guarantee no one would be worried about me, they would just call me stupid for trying to start a fight with a guy that's bigger and stronger then me.  And they would be right.

 

And Jay-Z's bodyguard is a lot bigger then Ray Rice and he was having trouble with Jay-Z's sister in law. . . And she wasn't attacking him which is an advantage because all he had to do was hold her back not try to attempt to stop attacks from 4 different limbs at once.

 

Wow.....   this thread has sure gone crazy.

 

First, Rice has admitted to what he did.

 

Second,  Rice and his now-wife have met with Goddell a long time ago and both confessed.

 

Third,   I'm beyond stunned that you think Rice, who weighs roughly twice what his wife weighs should strike her.    If you think he's not capable of subduing her by his strength alone,  I'm not sure what you're thinking.

 

Fourth,  Jay Z's body guard didn't have problems with her for any other reason than he wasn't going to clock his bosses sister-in-law right in front of Jay Z and Beyonce!     Everyone was there in the elevator!     But if she had been some crazed fan, and not family,  things likely would've been different.    Come on......

 

 

The Bowlen thread yesterday and now this?!?     Thank God camp starts today!

[Valpo2004]

I am not advocating any such thing.   My statement was,  I am thankful that I raised my boys to respect the women in their lives.  Period.   Respect never results in knocking the crap out of someone,  or laying a hand on them at all.   

 

Please, in the future,  don't pretend to know you know what I think, or feel... and I'll show you the same in return.

 

Your statement was in comparison to me whom you seemed to be indicating did not respect women.  

 

If you believe a man has the right to defend himself when a woman attacks him then I withdraw my comment.

 

But I personally believe the people that says that he shouldn't do so are the ones who respect women less.  It's essentially a statement that a woman isn't mentally capable of knowing what she's doing when she violently attacks someone.

[The Old Crow]

Ugh

At least I call it fairly, be it Raven's players, or individuals from other teams. That is my shield of credibility . I call it like it is.

[BrentMc11]

I have news for you, it's going to come up because all the players and press will be comparing his treatment, with that of Rice, Mathis , and others. If you think that isn't the case, you are deluding yourself. It's completely relevant .

I love your old Colts knowledge, but please leave Jim out of this one.  The man is addicted to painkillers.  Pain sucks.  I am on my 3rd week of pain right now.  It is awful.  I still would not hit a woman.

 

This is about Rice on this one....

[PrincetonTiger]

Dakich is still talking about 10 Minutes later

[The Old Crow]

I love your old Colts knowledge, but please leave Jim out of this one. The man is addicted to painkillers. Pain sucks. I am on my 3rd week of pain right now. It is awful. I still would not hit a woman.

This is about Rice on this one....

Ok , fair enough. You know where I stand with Ray. I do feel bad for Mathis if what he says is true.

[The Old Crow]

I love your old Colts knowledge, but please leave Jim out of this one. The man is addicted to painkillers. Pain sucks. I am on my 3rd week of pain right now. It is awful. I still would not hit a woman.

This is about Rice on this one....

Ok , fair enough. You know where I stand with Ray. I do feel bad for Mathis if what he says is true.

[Valpo2004]

Wow.....   this thread has sure gone crazy.

 

First, Rice has admitted to what he did.

 

Second,  Rice and his now-wife have met with Goddell a long time ago and both confessed.

 

Third,   I'm beyond stunned that you think Rice, who weighs roughly twice what his wife weighs should strike her.    If you think he's not capable of subduing her by his strength alone,  I'm not sure what you're thinking.

 

Fourth,  Jay Z's body guard didn't have problems with her for any other reason than he wasn't going to clock his bosses sister-in-law right in front of Jay Z and Beyonce!     Everyone was there in the elevator!     But if she had been some crazed fan, and not family,  things likely would've been different.    Come on......

 

 

The Bowlen thread yesterday and now this?!?     Thank God camp starts today!

 

4 limbs can hit you, 5 if you count the head but you only have 2 hands.  Restraining anyone who's determined to attack you isn't easy.  

 

And quite frankly again if I attacked an NFL offensive lineman, no one would be worried about me when I got knocked out, they would call me stupid for starting the fight.  (Which would be correct.)

 

So IF she started the fight, I think 2 games is appropriate.

 

If he did, then it's clearly too little.

[BrentMc11]

Ok , fair enough. You know where I stand with Ray. I do feel bad for Mathis if what he says is true.

I do too.....the punishment to me should be more than even 4 for Rice.....we can talk Irsay's punishment in another thread.  Thank you for understanding.

[The Old Crow]

I do too.....the punishment to me should be more than even 4 for Rice.....we can talk Irsay's punishment in another thread. Thank you for understanding.

No problem. I'm not as bad as some of these other people think.

[NFLfan]

If he struck first then I completely agree. But given that his wife has also apologized it sounds like that wasn't the case.

Her apologizing does not mean that she hit first. He may have hit her, she struck back and he knocked her out. But we are speculating here. You seem to give the players the benefit of the doubt in almost all such instances with women. Why? I do agree that too often the player is assumed guilty as soon as an allegation is made, which is wrong (as in the Colin Kaepernick case). However you seem to go too far, so much so that your points may be dismissed as those of an angry man. No one I know will agree with you that a man should hit a woman.

[Valpo2004]

I completely disagree with you, but you have been consistent in your sentiments about interpersonal violence. There have been at least 3 threads that I could remember where you have strongly defended your position. In this case, no one knows what precipitated Rice's knocking out his girlfriend but she appeared unconscious in an elevator. He did not deny that he struck her. He should have received more than a 2 game suspension. JMO

 

Thanks for not setting up any strawmen.  

 

I say things like this and people try to paint me as a woman beater or something, which couldn't be further from the truth because I don't hit anyone.  My wife and I's relationship is based on mutual respect and among many things that includes that neither one of hit the other.  And quite frankly that works great.  I wish everyone could run their relationships like that.

[BrentMc11]

4 limbs can hit you, 5 if you count the head but you only have 2 hands.  Restraining anyone who's determined to attack you isn't easy.  

 

And quite frankly again if I attacked an NFL offensive lineman, no one would be worried about me when I got knocked out, they would call me stupid for starting the fight.  (Which would be correct.)

 

So IF she started the fight, I think 2 games is appropriate.

Reminds me of a time one of my stupid friends went up to Barry Krauss and asked him...."Don't you play for the Packers?"  He was on his butt in a New York second.  It was hilarious.

[Valpo2004]

Her apologizing does not mean that she hit first. He may have hit her, she struck back and he knocked her out. But we are speculating here. You seem to give the players the benefit of the doubt in almost all such instances with women. Why? I do agree that too often the player is assumed guilty as soon as an allegation is made, which is wrong (as in the Colin Kaepernick case). However you seem to go too far, so much so that your points may be dismissed as those of an angry man. No one I know will agree with you that a man should hit a woman.

 

Benefit of the doubt. . . sounds a lot like innocent until proven guilty to me.  I'm a big fan of it.  

 

And female on male violence is seriously underestimated in this country . . . mostly because we are too busy laughing at it to actually recognize that it's violence and that it's wrong.  It seems that it's typically funny for everyone except the victim who is put in a huge bind.  Fight back and everyone rips on him and calls him a woman beater or stand there and take it and just continue to get hit.  

 

Do you realize there are more shelters for abused donkey's in this world then men who are abused by their partners (male or female)??  

 

Erin Pizzey attempted to rectify that situation and was targeted and her dog killed.  

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erin_Pizzey

 

She set up some of the first women's shelters. . . Then she recognized a lack of men's shelters. . . tries to set them up and she's a target.  

[PrincetonTiger]

Dakich is still talking about it

[snkdy]

What a terrible message by the NFL. At least RG is getting flack online.

[BrentMc11]

No problem. I'm not as bad as some of these other people think.

Gonna be back to LIKE!!!

[The Old Crow]

Gonna be back to LIKE!!!

That's a rare thing for me on this forum. Lol

[Gramz]

Your statement was in comparison to me whom you seemed to be indicating did not respect women.  

 

If you believe a man has the right to defend himself when a woman attacks him then I withdraw my comment.

 

But I personally believe the people that says that he shouldn't do so are the ones who respect women less.  It's essentially a statement that a woman isn't mentally capable of knowing what she's doing when she violently attacks someone.

Some of your comments come across that way.      Once again, I will not pretend to know  what your stance is.   If you say that you've never hit a woman, and never would, then  kudos to you...   I am happy to hear that.

 

I try to have the same respect for both equally.  I never said I gave the woman a "free pass" to hit.  

[chad72]

What a terrible message by the NFL. At least RG is getting flack online.

 

I agree. The punishment does not fit the crime. Maybe Goodell would think differently if it was his daughter that got socked.

 

Smoke weed and get 4 games, sock a woman and get 2??? Way to go Goodell, toe the party line to enable violence against women when the aggressor is an NFL player.