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Ray Rice Suspended


PrincetonTiger

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I respect women more then you respect them.

 

Respect means believing they are adults and can make good decisions and face the consequences of the bad ones. 

 

I'd never start a fight with anyone, which is a big reason why I've never been in a fight with anyone.  But if a woman hits me I'm going to defend myself.

Good god, just stop.

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You have mentioned that many times. I agree that there should be shelters for battered men too. There are women who beat men and the men do not receive the support they need. That is wrong. Since this means so much to you, have you thought of advocating for such services outside this forum? (This is a serious question.)

In another reply to me, you wrote you are not a wife beater. I never thought you were. You just have strong feelings about this. Anyway, I am going off topic and I don't want to have this thread closed.

I still think that the NFL is sending the wrong message when players are being suspended 4 games for marijuana use but only 2 games for an act of violence, especially one where someone is struck so hard that she is left unconscious.

Battered shelters for men? You can't be serious

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Just got back into Baltimore from Detroit. Listened to some of the Baltimore sports stations and it seemed for the most part, the media and listeners thought it was too light a penalty. Like me, most thought four games was more appropriate than two.

I would love to know if Goodell saw the entire tapes. Like the spy gate tapes, they will probably be destroyed and never see the light of day.

From a strictly football perspective , Ray getting two games is a positive , but like others, I think he should have gotten four.

Ray has never been in trouble before, and has been a positive influence in the community . One can only hope this is never repeated again, and he and his wife enjoy a happy and productive life.

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It sounds like there are some conflicting reports in which some say that she might have hit him first.  So perhaps the 2 games is just based on the complete lack of clarity as to what exactly happened.

 

The video people talk about apparently doesn't show much.  

 

It would be good if I could get a unbiased article that tells the full story as to who hit who first, what the video actually shows etc etc.  

 

Also worth remembering that Rice hasn't been charged with a crime.  They don't need his wife's permission or testimony to charge him with a crime if they have other evidence to support it, so it sounds like things are not actually very clear cut. 

Really?  Who hit first? He is a professional athlete. She could not possibly hit him hard enough to hurt him without some sort of weapon. I was raised to believe hitting a woman is wrong unless you were facing eminent danger. Somehow I don't think she was that much of a threat to him. 

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Just got back into Baltimore from Detroit. Listened to some of the Baltimore sports stations and it seemed for the most part, the media and listeners thought it was too light a penalty. Like me, most thought four games was more appropriate than two.

I would love to know if Goodell saw the entire tapes. Like the spy gate tapes, they will probably be destroyed and never see the light of day.

From a strictly football perspective , Ray getting two games is a positive , but like others, I think he should have gotten four.

Ray has never been in trouble before, and has been a positive influence in the community . One can only hope this is never repeated again, and he and his wife enjoy a happy and productive life.

It sounds like the Baltimore media and Fans are not playing Homers and are upset about the short suspension
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I think if a woman hits him first he has every right to respond violently in proportion to stop her attacks.  Yes.  (I'm saying this as a general rule I honestly have no idea what happened between Rice and his wife.)

 

To say that he should just walk away is silly.  First of all walking away isn't always an option and secondly saying that infantilizes women.  If women are adults capable of making decisions that have adult consequences and dealing with those adult consequences then they should not at any point be shielded from those consequences.  If I go up and hit Ray Rice I'd expect he'd hit me back and given that he's a professional football player and I'm a slightly overweight guy who's entirely un-athletic I would expect that he would likely win that fight.  

 

Of course personally I wouldn't walk up and hit anyone no matter what I felt my odds where of winning.  Because I don't believe in starting violent confrontations.

 

The first grown up rule about violence is that it's not a good idea to start violent confrontations because if you do you could end up hurt.  I think women can handle those consequences.

Wow.

I'm sorry, a man ever hits a woman unless in a life and death situation, and even then restraint should be the main reason.

A fiancé , knocking out his fiancée ? Ludicrous, and indefensible. 8 games, minimum.

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I respect women more then you respect them.

 

Respect means believing they are adults and can make good decisions and face the consequences of the bad ones. 

 

I'd never start a fight with anyone, which is a big reason why I've never been in a fight with anyone.  But if a woman hits me I'm going to defend myself.

And you ridiculously treat them as physical equals, which they rarely are.

Besides the fact that you apparently haven't learned the definition of the word "gentleman."

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A really good article on the topic

http://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/542587

 

I disagree with the stance here.

 

For starters, there's no reason to compare Ray Rice's suspension with anyone who was suspended for drug violations. The drug policy and PED policy are both collectively bargained, and have clear guidelines and standards about what happens when you mess up. This is like people bringing up Mathis' suspension and asking why Irsay hasn't been punished yet. Different violations are handled differently by the league. I don't think this should be that hard to understand.

 

Now, if people think the league wasn't harsh enough on Ray Rice, then just say that. It's not about his salary, and the proportion of his fine to someone else. I also don't think it should fall to the NFL to "make a statement" about violence against women. Violence against women is terrible, and it's a big problem, but so is drunk driving, and a lot of the other things players get rung up for. The NFL takes action to serve as a deterrent and set a standard that such conduct won't be tolerated. I think Rice's suspension serves that purpose.

 

Another thing, the angst surrounding this situation from the media and the Internet is really, really annoying, to me. People with partial information, who don't know the parties involved, who haven't heard the first-hand accounts, etc., who really aren't in any position to make a judgment about the people involved... it's hard to take their criticisms seriously. John Harbaugh said that this situation with Ray Rice doesn't fit what the team knows about him, based on his six years with the team. As Goodell and his advisors consider the situation, it's appropriate for them to acknowledge that this is an outlier for Rice, as far as anyone knows. He's a first time offender, he has shown contrition and remorse, and he and his wife appear to be taking positive action together. Those things are relevant, IMO.

 

Me personally, I can understand people thinking the suspension is light. But I think the decision that was made takes into consideration all of the angles involved, and it isn't based on bloodlust or vindictiveness. I certainly think the people who made this decision are better qualified than the thousands of people on the Internet who just want to be heard, even though they haven't made an effort to hear anyone else.

 

JMO

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From what I'm reading him knocking her out was a rumor.

And who started the violence is to me very critical. I'm sorry I don't buy into this idea that a real man should stand there and take it just cause it's a woman. She's an adult too, decisions have consequences including decisions to become violent with another person.

A grown up consequence of becoming violent with someone bigger and stronger then you is that you may get hit back and hurt in the process.

Mature adults female or male don't start violence. But I don't buy into the idea that either one should have to stand there and take it, even if the person starting the violence is smaller then them.

I agree...and nobody will admit it but violence with a member of the opposite sex atleast once in life is unavoidable.

And re: everybody else...why do people compare everything to marijuana?

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Wow.

I'm sorry, a man ever hits a woman unless in a life and death situation, and even then restraint should be the main reason.

A fiancé , knocking out his fiancée ? Ludicrous, and indefensible. 8 games, minimum.

Viri..I'd have suspended him for the year..but the NFL, which isn't at all shy about suspending peole..listened to Ray and his wife and gave him a slap on the wrist...

What could have been said?

Would you not suspended him if his wife asked you not to?

The courts let Ray off too..

Why?

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I think Harbaugh and Ozzie have to be somewhat careful because of player union implications. Also as a coach , you acknowledge player mistakes , but the objective is to get the player and team past it. I know Harbaugh and Ozzie have been extremely disappointed by some of the off season Raven player antics. It's just something you don't need, and something that is usually stupid coming from a professional. This whole affair has been extremely unfortunate for all involved. Despite this major Gaffe from Ray, I think he will turn things around and be the kind of man we know he can be.

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At least I call it fairly, be it Raven's players, or individuals from other teams. That is my shield of credibility . I call it like it is.

 

In nearly 2 decades of sports forum posting, I have rarely seen a poster that can spend such energy driving home a point..........to an unwilling audience.......in the face of continuous ridicule.....while maintaining a self view of righteousness.

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I disagree with the stance here.

 

For starters, there's no reason to compare Ray Rice's suspension with anyone who was suspended for drug violations. The drug policy and PED policy are both collectively bargained, and have clear guidelines and standards about what happens when you mess up. This is like people bringing up Mathis' suspension and asking why Irsay hasn't been punished yet. Different violations are handled differently by the league. I don't think this should be that hard to understand.

 

Now, if people think the league wasn't harsh enough on Ray Rice, then just say that. It's not about his salary, and the proportion of his fine to someone else. I also don't think it should fall to the NFL to "make a statement" about violence against women. Violence against women is terrible, and it's a big problem, but so is drunk driving, and a lot of the other things players get rung up for. The NFL takes action to serve as a deterrent and set a standard that such conduct won't be tolerated. I think Rice's suspension serves that purpose.

 

Another thing, the angst surrounding this situation from the media and the Internet is really, really annoying, to me. People with partial information, who don't know the parties involved, who haven't heard the first-hand accounts, etc., who really aren't in any position to make a judgment about the people involved... it's hard to take their criticisms seriously. John Harbaugh said that this situation with Ray Rice doesn't fit what the team knows about him, based on his six years with the team. As Goodell and his advisors consider the situation, it's appropriate for them to acknowledge that this is an outlier for Rice, as far as anyone knows. He's a first time offender, he has shown contrition and remorse, and he and his wife appear to be taking positive action together. Those things are relevant, IMO.

 

Me personally, I can understand people thinking the suspension is light. But I think the decision that was made takes into consideration all of the angles involved, and it isn't based on bloodlust or vindictiveness. I certainly think the people who made this decision are better qualified than the thousands of people on the Internet who just want to be heard, even though they haven't made an effort to hear anyone else.

 

JMO

I can't say I disagree with much here BUT that video is appalling. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. And I am not sure if Harbaugh saying that is not the Rice he knows means anything. The Pats certainly thought they knew Hernandez. Plenty of people put on the right at face at work and then do heinous things outside of it.

 

But you are spot on about the NFL not being a women's right league. They need to evaluate the offense and punish it for what it is and not let social bias play in. Some of this reminds me of Michael Vick and the media circus that surrounded him because of the nature of his crime.

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Battered shelters for men? You can't be serious

You appear to have a clear dislike to what valpo is saying but other than your one liners, do you mind justifying them?.

And anything wrong with men shelters?. I personally know a few men who are victims. They are human too.

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I find it quite fascinating how a lot of them are getting extremely defensive without even trying to understand what Valpo is trying to say but just bombard him.

 

Suddenly we are talking "Gentlemen", "Decency", "Physical non-equals" etc.

 

In other words, i understand it is acknowledged there is a significant difference in 2 genders. If it is acknowledged, why do we have protests and fights for equal rights?. If you want to be treated equal, doesn't that apply to everything?.

 

Double standards?. Hyprocrisy?.

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In nearly 2 decades of sports forum posting, I have rarely seen a poster that can spend such energy driving home a point..........to an unwilling audience.......in the face of continuous ridicule.....while maintaining a self view of righteousness.

Driving home a point means debating a topic thoroughly . It's an unwilling audience only to the most myopic Colt fans . The continuous ridicule is from the usual suspects and doesn't bother me at all . The self view of righteousness is being fair and balanced, and not an unmitigated homer. So I take your comments as a compliment .

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I find it quite fascinating how a lot of them are getting extremely defensive without even trying to understand what Valpo is trying to say but just bombard him.

 

Suddenly we are talking "Gentlemen", "Decency", "Physical non-equals" etc.

 

In other words, i understand it is acknowledged there is a significant difference in 2 genders. If it is acknowledged, why do we have protests and fights for equal rights?. If you want to be treated equal, doesn't that apply to everything?.

 

Double standards?. Hyprocrisy?.

I don't think it's a case of people not understanding, or trying to understand.  It's more about disagreeing with that logic.

 

And when I think of "Equal Rights"   I never once considered it meaning  the equal right to have the crap beat out of me or knocked unconscience by my "significant other".   I can only say,  I have enough respect for myself to never allow such a person to be a part of my life.    

 

Once again,  not many here know ALL the details,  only what we've read, or witnessed on the released video and reports.

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I don't think it's a case of people not understanding, or trying to understand.  It's more about disagreeing with that logic.

 

And when I think of "Equal Rights"   I never once considered it meaning  the equal right to have the crap beat out of me or knocked unconscience by my "significant other".   I can only say,  I have enough respect for myself to never allow such a person to be a part of my life.    

 

Once again,  not many here know ALL the details,  only what we've read, or witnessed on the released video and reports.

Sure, we should start considering every aspect when we talk equal rights.

 

I am not saying a guy should beat up a girl. But when a girl is dumb enough go beat a guy, she has to be prepared for the consequences.

 

Again, we dont know all details in this case but that was generic above.

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Life is very sad when things don't go our way. :clap:  :number1:

Sometimes things don't go "our way" for a reason.  Sometimes good,  sometimes not so good.

 

What is Sad,  is the ever growing lack of  common sense, lack of respect for human decency, and knowing the difference between right and wrong.

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Sometimes things don't go "our way" for a reason.  Sometimes good,  sometimes not so good.

 

What is Sad,  is the ever growing lack of  common sense, lack of respect for human decency, and knowing the difference between right and wrong.

Cant go wrong with this post. :applause:  :rock:

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I find it quite fascinating how a lot of them are getting extremely defensive without even trying to understand what Valpo is trying to say but just bombard him.

Suddenly we are talking "Gentlemen", "Decency", "Physical non-equals" etc.

In other words, i understand it is acknowledged there is a significant difference in 2 genders. If it is acknowledged, why do we have protests and fights for equal rights?. If you want to be treated equal, doesn't that apply to everything?.

Double standards?. Hyprocrisy?.

Just so you know, most of the reports coming out of Baltimore had Mrs. Rice spitting and hitting Ray Rice before she was struck. Both were apparently extremely drunk. As far as I know, no one has seen any tape other than the one TMZ put out, so I'm not sure what Goodell looked at in

making his decision. This does not excuse what Ray did, but may add some perspective.

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Just so you know, most of the reports coming out of Baltimore had Mrs. Rice spitting and hitting Ray Rice before she was struck. Both were apparently extremely drunk. As far as I know, no one has seen any tape other than the one TMZ put out, so I'm not sure what Goodell looked at in

making his decision. This does not excuse what Ray did, but may add some perspective.

 

Still, the consistency in the punishment is nowhere near what other conduct violations get. Big Ben got what, 6 games, for accusations and NO CHARGES. It is all over the place, IMO.

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Still, the consistency in the punishment is nowhere near what other conduct violations get. Big Ben got what, 6 games, for accusations and NO CHARGES. It is all over the place, IMO.

It is odd. The punishments are all over the place. I think with the drugs , you have a set guideline for suspensions. Guidelines should also be established for other areas like domestic violence, assault, etc. Obviously , with legal ramifications you have to be somewhat flexible , but once guilt has been established, penalties could be enacted more consistently.

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Still, the consistency in the punishment is nowhere near what other conduct violations get. Big Ben got what, 6 games, for accusations and NO CHARGES. It is all over the place, IMO.

I think the majority of the people ~ across the entire Nation, are in agreement with you here.

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Just so you know, most of the reports coming out of Baltimore had Mrs. Rice spitting and hitting Ray Rice before she was struck. Both were apparently extremely drunk. As far as I know, no one has seen any tape other than the one TMZ put out, so I'm not sure what Goodell looked at in

making his decision. This does not excuse what Ray did, but may add some perspective.

If true, that only makes me wonder what HE did to provoke such behavior.

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Sure, we should start considering every aspect when we talk equal rights.

 

I am not saying a guy should beat up a girl. But when a girl is dumb enough go beat a guy, she has to be prepared for the consequences.

 

Again, we dont know all details in this case but that was generic above.

 

Wow.

 

I don't know if you're married, or have sisters, or if you're close to your mother or other female relatives. But how would you feel if some guy introduced a woman you love to those "consequences?" 

 

Ray Rice is a professional athlete. The two of us together could probably not beat him up. I highly doubt that his fiancee would have inflicted the kind of damage that you seem to feel warrants retribution. 

 

Of course women are capable of violence. They're human. But unless the circumstances are pretty extreme (ie: weapon involved, etc), there is never, ever, ever a "good reason" for men to assert themselves physically over women. Never.

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