O-line according to PFF until after week 11 [Merge]

[Archer]

How does Thornton grade out? 

[Valpo2004]

Several things I noticed:

 

- AQ Shipley graded out badly. 

 

- I knew Eric Fisher was playing badly, but man they gave him a bad grade.

 

- Gosder graded out better than AC. 

 

- I made one of the boldest statements ever when I said Decastro had HOF potential. He's having a good start to his career.

 

- Surprised to see the Dolphins in 14th. The O-line is a mess, with or without those goons on the left. 

 

- Packers at 13? I'm a bit skeptical of these rankings now.

 

- Jake Long getting a very good grade? Why am I not surprised, and I've been saying it all year. Curious to see how his haters are responding to that one, hahahaha.

 

With Goster doing better then AC, should we consider having them switch sides next season?  

[dritterbusch]

I loved to see the Colts sign Alex Mack from Cleveland next year, creating an O-line of:

 

Castonzo

Thomas

Mack

Thornton

Cherilus

[Smonroe]

I feel like a shill for Colts Authority, but I promise I'm not way affiliated with them.

 

I do urge everyone to go there and read the weekly O Line reports.  The guy grades every lineman on every play.  It's much more detailed than PFF.  I was shocked to find out that Satele has actually been playing better.  Both he and McGlynn scored slightly higher than Cherilus in the Titans game.

 

Neither they nor PFF know the O line assignements, but CA rates them on their performance for that play.  Check it out if you want to really know what the line is doing.

[stat2883]

I seriously doubt they fail to understand whose responsibility is whose on delays and stunts. It's really not that hard. Miscommunications and things like that are pretty easy to figure out who was at fault.

 

Good defenders understand that zone coverage is flexible depending on personnel and what the personnel does.

There are plenty of times where you can look at a line and think they did what they were supposed, for example if a center doubles down on the wrong DT, the guard attacks the other DT's outside shoulder and gets beat in the A gap. On film that's going against the guard when its really the center's fault. No way to see that on film unless you know the exact call. If you go hard and don't hesitate, on film its even going to look like you knew what you were doing even if you were wrong and left someone else out to dry...unless the person viewing the film knew the call.

As for zone, you have to trust your other men to do their job. In cover three, the CBs main responsibility is deep before shallow. Sure he can hit the receiver, but it shouldn't be on him to cover up for teammate's mistakes (let alone take the blame), especially if they're running a corner route behind him. Say the CB does cover for the LB, then the deep middle safety gives up the corner route behind him - now the safety is getting dinged for giving up a catch and it all stemmed from a LB not getting to his spot. Lots of things happen as the play unfolds and unless you know the coverage and what was called, it can get pretty hairy. It isn't like Madden where its all neat and tidy and cut and dry, where cover 2 is cover 2 no matter what. They put variations and emphasis on different things each weak tailored to their opponents. PFF doesn't know any of that stuff.

plenty of examples and often times its not so obvious.

[dudeski]

I feel like a shill for Colts Authority, but I promise I'm not way affiliated with them.

I do urge everyone to go there and read the weekly O Line reports. The guy grades every lineman on every play. It's much more detailed than PFF. I was shocked to find out that Satele has actually been playing better. Both he and McGlynn scored slightly higher than Cherilus in the Titans game.

Neither they nor PFF know the O line assignements, but CA rates them on their performance for that play. Check it out if you want to really know what the line is doing.

or we could actually watch them play ourselves

[lollygagger8]

All 3 of our interior lineman are bottom 10 at their position.

 

I say they need a nickname......hmmmm.....Oh! I got it! 

 

 

[Dustin]

How does Thornton grade out? 

 

Overall: -11.2 (14th worst)

 

Pass blocking: -11.3 (7th worst)

 

Run Blocking: -1.5 (36th overall)

[Smonroe]

or we could actually watch them play ourselves

 

I'm sure you watch every player's block on every play, right? 

[AntonMcG]

or we could actually watch them play ourselves

 

Good idea, I'll make sure to quit my job tomorrow.

[AntonMcG]

Overall: -11.2 (14th worst)

 

Pass blocking: -11.3 (7th worst)

 

Run Blocking: -1.5 (36th overall)

 

Castonzo and Satele?

[Superman]

Thomas had a very nasty injury.   I do not expect him to return anywhere near what he was, if he returns at all.

 

Was it a complete rupture, or a partial tear? If it's a partial tear, typical recovery is 5-6 months. He'll have 8 months before the offseason program begins.

[Coffeedrinker]

I feel like a shill for Colts Authority, but I promise I'm not way affiliated with them.

 

I do urge everyone to go there and read the weekly O Line reports.  The guy grades every lineman on every play.  It's much more detailed than PFF.  I was shocked to find out that Satele has actually been playing better.  Both he and McGlynn scored slightly higher than Cherilus in the Titans game.

 

Neither they nor PFF know the O line assignements, but CA rates them on their performance for that play.  Check it out if you want to really know what the line is doing.

Oh, you get paid every time someone clicks on Colts Authority.  I'm just kiiding.

 

Satele grading better than Cherilus in the Titans game is not surprising, other than a couple of pass plays he had a solid game.  McGlynn surprises me though, he did a good job of pulling and getting in the way of a defender on Brown's first TD run (he fell down an the defender tripped over him) and on Browns 2nd TD run he had a nice block but outside of that it seemed he got pushed around more than he pushed.

 

But I will check out their site, it would be interesting to read their take and their criteria.

[Colts_Fan12]

I loved to see the Colts sign Alex Mack from Cleveland next year, creating an O-line of:

Castonzo

Thomas

Mack

Thornton

Cherilus

I want Mack as well and Jon Asamoah too so we can let Thornton learn for longer

We could have

Castanzo

Thomas

Mack

Asamoah

Cherilus

[dudeski]

I'm sure you watch every player's block on every play, right?

yep

Watch every game at least twice

[SkyBane]

I want Mack as well and Jon Asamoah too so we can let Thornton learn for longer

We could have

Castanzo

Thomas

Mack

Asamoah

Cherilus

We can want Alex Mack all we want, Cleveland isnt letting him go.

[Dustin]

Castonzo and Satele?

 

Castanzo: +8.4 (24th overall)

 

Pass Block: -2.8 (56th)

 

Run Block: +8.2 (4th)

 

Penalty: +2.5

 

 

Satele: -4.9 (10th worst)

 

Pass Block: +1 (14th overall)

 

Run Block: -5.9 (8th worst)

 

Penalty: +.5

[Colts_Fan12]

We can want Alex Mack all we want, Cleveland isnt letting him go.

There lies the problem sadly

[AntonMcG]

yep

Watch every game at least twice

 

And in that time you can accurately assess every lineman's individual performance on each snap as well as see every route that has been run, the QB. the RB etc.?

 

Please.

[Le Neon]

With Goster doing better then AC, should we consider having them switch sides next season?

Though to be fair to Castonzo most of his negatives came in a single game (st. Louis). He scored -5.1 pass blocking in that game, which is pretty epically bad. His body of work this season has been better than that.

Pretty happy with our tackles. If we beef up the interior we could have a pretty good line next season.

[SkyBane]

Though to be fair to Castonzo most of his negatives came in a single game (st. Louis). He scored -5.1 pass blocking in that game, which is pretty epically bad. His body of work this season has been better than that.

Pretty happy with our tackles. If we beef up the interior we could have a pretty good line next season.

Yep, the tackles have done good work. All the line issues are on the interior, and as we get an interior lineman back off IR next year, hopefully we can address center in the offseason. Lets not forget that Thornton is a rookie o lineman playing both injured and out of position. He should improve some next year.

[throwing BBZ]

I saw our lineman being asked to do things they just were not capable of doing. especially Satele & McGlynn. And the Rookie, after teams saw what he couldn`t do, has really struggled, not been VG.

 

In the TN game, particularly in the 2nd half, i saw a number of extremely well executed double teams, saw great pulls by Jack Doyle and even by Satele and McGlynn, and a really sharp Havili. It is something different, and I am excited about what may be coming with our run schemes.

 The 2nd half of TN. looked like what SF did to us in the 1st half before Harbaugh inexplicably got tired of killing us with his run game. VG if not exceptional blocking on most plays. Go Colts!

[Smonroe]

And in that time you can accurately assess every lineman's individual performance on each snap as well as see every route that has been run, the QB. the RB etc.?

 

Please.

 

He's omniscient!  BTW, I also watch every game twice.  And I usually go back to see who blew the block(s) if a play gets blown up.  But I rarely pay attention to blocking assignments on successful pass plays, other than noticing if the RB picks up a guy. 

 

Unless you have the All 22 it's very hard to even see the entire line on TV.

[John Dee]

Was it a complete rupture, or a partial tear? If it's a partial tear, typical recovery is 5-6 months. He'll have 8 months before the offseason program begins.

From what was discussed on 1070 when it happened, Thomas had a complete tear of his quad muscle.   

 

It is like sewing 2 pieces of meat back together.    His career is in jeopardy.

[throwing BBZ]

He's omniscient!  BTW, I also watch every game twice.  And I usually go back to see who blew the block(s) if a play gets blown up.  But I rarely pay attention to blocking assignments on successful pass plays, other than noticing if the RB picks up a guy. 

 

Unless you have the All 22 it's very hard to even see the entire line on TV.

 

Pretty much what i do.

Digital & DVR has made it awesome.

And I started doing this from the Invent of the VCR.

 

 Announcers constantly give credit to defensive players who are "in on the play". So often it is the last guy in, whose name they can read 1st. (Phil Simms - who it seems loves to say, Angerer)

 I wanna see WHO really is the playmaker so i can be a Fan of theirs.

 Announcers rarely anymore give O-Lineman the time of day. That time now goes to the producers human interest stories.

 Studying the trenches, and seeing why things work or fail is a huge part of how I enjoy the game 48 Years after Bullet Bob Hayes attracted me to the NFL as a 10 year old.

[Superman]

From what was discussed on 1070 when it happened, Thomas had a complete tear of his quad muscle.   

 

It is like sewing 2 pieces of meat back together.    His career is in jeopardy.

 

It's so annoying getting conflicting information. I thought it was a tear of the quadriceps tendon.

[John Dee]

I may be wrong, but from what I recall Chap saying it was a muscle tear.     not the tendon.

 

I could be wrong, but the interview I listened to was not real encouraging.

It's so annoying getting conflicting information. I thought it was a tear of the quadriceps tendon.

[Valpo2004]

Yep, the tackles have done good work. All the line issues are on the interior, and as we get an interior lineman back off IR next year, hopefully we can address center in the offseason. Lets not forget that Thornton is a rookie o lineman playing both injured and out of position. He should improve some next year.

 

He's playing out of position?  Is there an essential difference between playing left and right guard?

[Gavin]

"I seriously doubt they fail to understand whose responsibility is whose on delays and stunts"

Sometimes its pretty clear, Not easy but its clear more then ya think in my opinion of course

Example:Rams game 2nd Quarter the Colts lined up in the diamond formation with Havili to the right of Luck and Richardson to the left, Richardson went out to run a route while Havili went up to pass block James Laurinaitis. Robert Quinn ran a Stunt with Micheal Brockers, Well Castonzo picked up his man which was Brockers. At that point you have Satele guarding his area, Havili coming up to pass block Laurinaitis (Quinn went right by Havili on the play and one of fox commentators commented about Havili needing to see that)so it appeared to me the sack was given up by Thornton or Havili....Like I said however Havili went directly up to pass block Laurinnaitis so I don't think it was on him, On the play Castonzo appeared to point to the Stunting Quinn for Thorton to pick him up...Thornton did not see Quinn till Quinn was in Andrews face...By then it was to late......Sack given up by Thornton.....Rams game 2nd Quarter 4:04 mark

[BOTT]

I may be wrong, but from what I recall Chap saying it was a muscle tear.     not the tendon.

 

I could be wrong, but the interview I listened to was not real encouraging.

You might be thinking of Freeney, who had a quad tear. Thomas tore his quad tendon.

[dudeski]

And in that time you can accurately assess every lineman's individual performance on each snap as well as see every route that has been run, the QB. the RB etc.?

Please.

no. Never see every route. See the linemen though

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Was it a complete rupture, or a partial tear? If it's a partial tear, typical recovery is 5-6 months. He'll have 8 months before the offseason program begi

 

From what was discussed on 1070 when it happened, Thomas had a complete tear of his quad muscle.   

 

It is like sewing 2 pieces of meat back together.    His career is in jeopardy.

OHHHHHHHHHH

ns.

[Superman]

You might be thinking of Freeney, who had a quad tear. Thomas tore his quad tendon.

 

According to this, Thomas torn the tendon. And it doesn't say whether it's partial or full. Nothing does. I guess we'll only find out as the offseason program ramps up.

 

http://www.hollywoodsportsbook.eu/sportsbook/sports/tag/donald-thomas/

 

I've also read both tendon and muscle for Freeney. Last month, he said he'd be running in March or April, and he's not expecting the injury to end his career.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I saw our lineman being asked to do things they just were not capable of doing. especially Satele & McGlynn. And the Rookie, after teams saw what he couldn`t do, has really struggled, not been VG.

 

In the TN game, particularly in the 2nd half, i saw a number of extremely well executed double teams, saw great pulls by Jack Doyle and even by Satele and McGlynn, and a really sharp Havili. It is something different, and I am excited about what may be coming with our run schemes.

 The 2nd half of TN. looked like what SF did to us in the 1st half before Harbaugh inexplicably got tired of killing us with his run game. VG if not exceptional blocking on most plays. Go Colts!

Honestly I thought the whole line SUCKED the first half of the TENN game. Especially the tackles lots of pressure? The line did play MUCH BETTER the 2nd half, the tackles played much better, but I thought McGlynn who I am not a fan of played well in the second half, very physical in the run game & not much pass rush. Probably McGlynn's best half of football as a guard, NOT CENTER " where i think he should play" in a Colts uniform. McGlynn's problems IMO are as a run blocker he comes out to high & players gain leverage low on him & push him back, he is better at trap & pulling, pass blocking he is not good in space as he is lead footed an can not adjust. Hes better at center IMO because the player he is to block more often than not is right in front of him pass or run & he is lower for an extended period of time because he is hiking the ball.. Well that's my 2 cents anyway.

[AntonMcG]

no. Never see every route. See the linemen though

 

Of course you do.

[dudeski]

Meh, you can only look at the film and assume everyone is in the correct position. Id venture to guess that lineman blockig the wrong player doesn't happen much. Maybe ~20 times a season to be generous.

All I know is that 33% of teams in the NFL pay for their stats and scouting reports so im under the assumption that 1/3 of NFL GMs think these guys know what they are doing to at least consult them.

 

you put way too much stock in that site.  way too much. 

 

and i don't believe that 33% of the teams use them for anything

[Dustin]

and i don't believe that 33% of the teams use them for anything

You'd be incorrect.

[dudeski]

With Goster doing better then AC, should we consider having them switch sides next season?  

no

 

absolutely not.

[Dustin]

no

absolutely not.

yes

absolutely.

[dudeski]

You'd be incorrect.

i highly doubt that