What's The Main Reason The Patriots Could Win Without Brady?

[shaunzo]

If Belichick was coaching a team made mostly of second string and practice squad players, he would be 0-6 too.

Your talking about a guy who makes people like Danny Woodhead look all world bro. If Belichick were coaching this team, right now, without Manning, we'd have won against the Steelers, TB, KC, and Cincinnati. That's right, we'd be 4-2, minimum. We would've never blown those leads, and our defense would've come up with plays when needed.

[P-Money]

they got incredibly lucky. Period, they had a backup QB with talent and also were not experincing offensive line issues and sever defensive back issues. There are very few teams that could suffer the amount of injuries to key personal like the Colts have and won.

Luck doesn't win you 11 games in the NFL. Sorry

[Mark]

Because Brady's not as good as Peyton

[Jay305]

BELICHICK IS THE MAIN REASON TOM BRADY IS THE MOST OVERHYPED PLAYER IN HISTORY.

[dn4192]

Your talking about a guy who makes people like Danny Woodhead look all world bro. If Belichick were coaching this team, right now, without Manning, we'd have won against the Steelers, TB, KC, and Cincinnati. That's right, we'd be 4-2, minimum. We would've never blown those leads, and our defense would've come up with plays when needed.

If Bill is so talented then what happen in Clevleand? Didn't win there...

[dn4192]

Also if Bill is all that what happen in the Superbowl vs. the Giants? I mean really if he is that great of a coach how die he allow his team to be beat by an inferior team? How did he allow the Ravens come in to HIS house I believe in the 2009 playoffs and just destroy them and well what about last year? I mean really they destroy the Jets in the regular season and then lose to them at home in the playoffs? Yes he has 3 SB rings, but really his team got lucky in the first as the Refs stole the game for them vs. the Radiers in the playoffs and he has needed the right foot of AV to win the rings....yep great coach.

[Yehoodi]

The point is your organization is run smoothly, and not based around Tom Brady. Your coaches know how to coach unlike ours. You owner brings in talent on both sides of the ball consistently, especially when you are lacking in one particualr area. :ttth:

Rich, I think we pretty much agree, just a quick note I was just adding to your post and hope you don't think the finger wiggle was directed at you but joking at Cassel - in the last game in our 2005 season, if we won we would play the Steelers in the first round, and if we lost we would play Jack . . . Cassel was put in the game and were behind by 8 if I recall, we get a TD and then Cassel goes for a two pt converstion to tie the game, and he rolled out and had a guy open and if he converts we go into OT, Cassel threw it into the stands and perhaps a little too close for comfort to our WR for a possible conversion . . . BB did not seem too happy on the sidelines knowing we almost tied the game . . . so the tiss tiss finger was directed at cassel trying to win the game . . . the only time i recall a loss may have helped out team, altho perhaps we might of been better off winning as we may have avoided Den in round 2.

but getting back to your point, yes the Pats do, IMO, make a more balance team, and have in the past not surrounded TB directly with talent (on offense) but have surrounded him with talent in other ways . . . this is in a way is actually relying on your QB as he has to make due with what you give him, i prefer this method as opposed to surrounding him with great talent to the expense of the other two phases . . .

[-JJ-]

Also if Bill is all that what happen in the Superbowl vs. the Giants? I mean really if he is that great of a coach how die he allow his team to be beat by an inferior team? How did he allow the Ravens come in to HIS house I believe in the 2009 playoffs and just destroy them and well what about last year? I mean really they destroy the Jets in the regular season and then lose to them at home in the playoffs? Yes he has 3 SB rings, but really his team got lucky in the first as the Refs stole the game for them vs. the Radiers in the playoffs and he has needed the right foot of AV to win the rings....yep great coach.

I know huh. He should have no losses if he's so great.

He also should have had TB throw a TD when he needed 3 pts to win to show how great he is.

He did get lucky when the refs called the right rule under the Oakland tuck..not so lucky when the refs called the tuck rule against him twice (once the same year-Texans) . Oh well..1 out of 3 tuck luck is pretty good I guess.

Kraft needs to get rid of him and find a coach who never loses.

[Rich Cannon]

Rich, I think we pretty much agree, just a quick note I was just adding to your post and hope you don't think the finger wiggle was directed at you but joking at Cassel - in the last game in our 2005 season, if we won we would play the Steelers in the first round, and if we lost we would play Jack . . . Cassel was put in the game and were behind by 8 if I recall, we get a TD and then Cassel goes for a two pt converstion to tie the game, and he rolled out and had a guy open and if he converts we go into OT, Cassel threw it into the stands and perhaps a little too close for comfort to our WR for a possible conversion . . . BB did not seem too happy on the sidelines knowing we almost tied the game . . . so the tiss tiss finger was directed at cassel trying to win the game . . . the only time i recall a loss may have helped out team, altho perhaps we might of been better off winning as we may have avoided Den in round 2.

but getting back to your point, yes the Pats do, IMO, make a more balance team, and have in the past not surrounded TB directly with talent (on offense) but have surrounded him with talent in other ways . . . this is in a way is actually relying on your QB as he has to make due with what you give him, i prefer this method as opposed to surrounding him with great talent to the expense of the other two phases . . .

agreed

[doogansquest]

I don't think they have more talent than most other NFL teams. Every team has talent. They have made the most out of their players, both on the field, and in trades. They have consistently had a great offensive line, and good coaching. Not just Belichick, but the supporting cast as well.

BB may not have worked out in Cleveland, but it's all about the right fit, and the right system. Championships happen when everything comes together. QB's don't win championships. Defense doesn't win championships, despite the stupid acceptance of that phrase. Everything working at the right time leads to a championship.

[Rich Cannon]

I don't think they have more talent than most other NFL teams. Every team has talent. They have made the most out of their players, both on the field, and in trades. They have consistently had a great offensive line, and good coaching. Not just Belichick, but the supporting cast as well.

BB may not have worked out in Cleveland, but it's all about the right fit, and the right system. Championships happen when everything comes together. QB's don't win championships. Defense doesn't win championships, despite the stupid acceptance of that phrase. Everything working at the right time leads to a championship.

exactly + 1

[Yehoodi]

I don't think they have more talent than most other NFL teams. Every team has talent. They have made the most out of their players, both on the field, and in trades. They have consistently had a great offensive line, and good coaching. Not just Belichick, but the supporting cast as well.

BB may not have worked out in Cleveland, but it's all about the right fit, and the right system. Championships happen when everything comes together. QB's don't win championships. Defense doesn't win championships, despite the stupid acceptance of that phrase. Everything working at the right time leads to a championship.

also, too the pats really work on the philosophy of the team is a 53 man roster and spread out the cap space across the roster so we have more depth than be top heavy . . . and yes sometimes it can get on some pats fans that I know, the word "value", upset but i like the they way the apts run the team, surely we might loose Givens and Branch in 2006 and will take a hit there, but it is the cost of spreading things around so we have some depth . .. sometimes we make trades that might be a small step back but maybe two steps forward, trading Seymour in his last year (and we weren't going to resign him) and it turned into Nate Solder, true Seymour is back to being a beast, but if we weren't going to sign him, we loose 11 games of seymore for Nate Solder and his rookie contract . . .

on occasions the pats will dole out the $$ for players if they are really key, Mankins and Wilfork . . ..

of coasre the big mystery is if the Pats will resign welker . .. i really hope they do . . .

[ViriLudant]

BELICHICK IS THE MAIN REASON TOM BRADY IS THE MOST OVERHYPED PLAYER IN HISTORY.

Right, that's why BB was so successful in Cleveland.

Oh, and BB threw all of Brady's passes. He also caught all of them. He also ran all of the routes. Oh, and called the routes.

[ReMeDy]

Luck doesn't win you 11 games in the NFL. Sorry

Unless that "Luck" has the first name "Andrew"

[BillCowher]

Why does every NE fan like to talk about Cleveland? I really don't get it. It really is a slame against the great organization that is in NE. Of course the hoodie didn't do well in Cleveland. What a poor organization compaired to NE. I worked at Kmart when I was in high school. Why am I more successful today then when I was at Kmart?

We all know why NE fan doesn't want to give BB his due....because they estimate Brady's abilities. Brady is a great QB. That is a given but he is not as good as Manning. Never will be!

[dn4192]

Is there a way to see what the payroll brake down is with both the Colts and Pats? I would think the Colts are way more top heavy then the Pats or any other team.

[BillCowher]

Most national people put Brady and Manning in the same category. Most national people place the Colts team and the Patriots team on the same level (when both QB's are playing). Who places BB and Caldwell on the same level? Night and day difference. Manning has played for the past three years with a handicap....Caldwell. Dungy is not on the same level as BB but close. I am sure the Colts would be better than 0-6 if BB or Dungy were coaching them this year. Without BB NE would not be as dominate a team as they have been and are. Why don't you NE fans answer this question: What would NE be like with Caldwell as their coach? I would love to see Brady's reaction when Caldwell makes his boneheaded decisions. Brady would not know what to do going from BB to Caldwell!

[-JJ-]

Most national people put Brady and Manning in the same category. Most national people place the Colts team and the Patriots team on the same level (when both QB's are playing). Who places BB and Caldwell on the same level? Night and day difference. Manning has played for the past three years with a handicap....Caldwell. Dungy is not on the same level as BB but close. I am sure the Colts would be better than 0-6 if BB or Dungy were coaching them this year. Without BB NE would not be as dominate a team as they have been and are. Why don't you NE fans answer this question: What would NE be like with Caldwell as their coach? I would love to see Brady's reaction when Caldwell makes his boneheaded decisions. Brady would not know what to do going from BB to Caldwell!

I don't think many if not all NE fans don't put Belichick as the number one reason for the team's success.

But a coach still needs a QB. It's when you get the best tandem seems the be the ones with the most SBs.

[274ridge]

look at the guys cassel could throw to he had moss and stallworth. they also had a good defense and a good running game

[AlanNC]

Simply but they had a coach. We don't.

[21isSuperman]

Moved from Colts Football to NFL General

[patsallday]

Why don't you NE fans answer this question: What would NE be like with Caldwell as their coach?

don't know.

don't care.

we got BB, i'm not into hypotheticals.

[patsallday]

look at the guys cassel could throw to he had moss and stallworth. they also had a good defense and a good running game

stallworth was only in n.e. for 2007.

yep maroney was a beast for our running game :thdown:

[Andy]

Answering the OP -- Belicheck is the reason

[IcEWoLF]

If Belichick was coaching a team made mostly of second string and practice squad players, he would be 0-6 too.

BB is smart enough to stock pike draft picks and still field a team that would have a better record than 0-6.

My point is that smart coaches always find a way to win games.

[Yehoodi]

Why does every NE fan like to talk about Cleveland? I really don't get it. It really is a slame against the great organization that is in NE. Of course the hoodie didn't do well in Cleveland. What a poor organization compaired to NE. I worked at Kmart when I was in high school. Why am I more successful today then when I was at Kmart?

We all know why NE fan doesn't want to give BB his due....because they estimate Brady's abilities. Brady is a great QB. That is a given but he is not as good as Manning. Never will be!

Bill, the reason Clevelend is mentioned is the fact that one is trying to get a gauge on BB head coaching outside of TB (and btw, we all also brought up BB coaching record IN NE prior to the the Moe Lewis) . . . So when one looks at 2008 and focus all of the energy on BB one is really taking a dig at the rest of the coaching staff, the players, and Matt Cassell . . . so when one tries to put all the eggs in BB's basket outside of TB, then the natural response would be how did he do outside of TB . . . and if his resume is not that good, then some of the credit for 2008 can not all be placed in BB's lap and some of it has to go in other areas . . .

[KirkCousins#8]

also, too the pats really work on the philosophy of the team is a 53 man roster and spread out the cap space across the roster so we have more depth than be top heavy . . . and yes sometimes it can get on some pats fans that I know, the word "value", upset but i like the they way the apts run the team, surely we might loose Givens and Branch in 2006 and will take a hit there, but it is the cost of spreading things around so we have some depth . .. sometimes we make trades that might be a small step back but maybe two steps forward, trading Seymour in his last year (and we weren't going to resign him) and it turned into Nate Solder, true Seymour is back to being a beast, but if we weren't going to sign him, we loose 11 games of seymore for Nate Solder and his rookie contract . . .

on occasions the pats will dole out the $$ for players if they are really key, Mankins and Wilfork . . ..

of coasre the big mystery is if the Pats will resign welker . .. i really hope they do . . .

The pats have to.They don't have much of a choice in my opinion.If they don't,then the colts will! .......

and this guy( :manning: ) will be very happy!

[Yehoodi]

The pats have to.They don't have much of a choice in my opinion.If they don't,then the colts will! .......

and this guy( :manning: ) will be very happy!

yah wont that be a power shift if welker goes from Pats to Indy . . . I am guessing that the two will make it work . . .i know the pats love value, but am hoping after letting Branch go in 2006, they might think twice about letting Welker go and may not mind paying more than thier perceived "value" of welker . . .surely he may not be all worldly outside of NE, but he and TB have a great chemisty and we really got to keep the man . . . i feel like it is likely that we keep welker, that is my sense from what i am hearing from the team and welker, but then again we all know that things can change quickly . . . and are not always what they seem . . .

[KirkCousins#8]

yah wont that be a power shift if welker goes from Pats to Indy . . . I am guessing that the two will make it work . . .i know the pats love value, but am hoping after letting Branch go in 2006, they might think twice about letting Welker go and may not mind paying more than thier perceived "value" of welker . . .surely he may not be all worldly outside of NE, but he and TB have a great chemisty and we really got to keep the man . . . i feel like it is likely that we keep welker, that is my sense from what i am hearing from the team and welker, but then again we all know that things can change quickly . . . and are not always what they seem . . .

Wes is most likely the greatest slot reciever ever,and with that being said they just can't overlook that...regardless of their "value" of him.I've seen him keep the pats in so many games.The man always gets open at the right moment and at the most critical time.I think the loss of him would seriously hurt the pats this time around.

[Yehoodi]

Wes is most likely the greatest slot reciever ever,and with that being said they just can't overlook that...regardless of their "value" of him.I've seen him keep the pats in so many games.The man always gets open at the right moment and at the most critical time.I think the loss of him would seriously hurt the pats this time around.

yes i hope the pats keep welker . . . we have 4 good possession targets in Gronk, Hernandez, Branch and Welker, it would be a shame to lose one of them . . . i am just hoping that the pats have learned from the Branch experience and thus not mind given a little extra for Welker . . .

[WSO]

Patriots have always been an all around better team than the Colts except maybe in 2006. Unlike the Colts they actually have very good depth and don't overpay their players them dump them (Hayden, Sanders for ex.). BB is the best head coach in NFL history period. I have never seen a coach prepare his team for an upcoming opponent like BB. This is taking nothing away from Brady because Brady is one of the best to ever play as well. I just feel while the Colts may have had more offensive talent for the most part, the Pats have had a better overall team. It's no secret our defense sucks. Freeney and Mathis are great but the other 9 don't play at the level of these 2 nor have the talent.

If the Colts would just take a page or two out of the Pats book and learn to build a complete team I'd be happy. . .I'm sick of spending top picks on offense and neglecting the defense. Brown, Ugoh, Gonzo etc. what are they doing now? 1 cut, 2 benched.

Polian should also not be so afraid to test the F/A market.

Lastly our special teams has to be the worst in the NFL in this past decade bar none. The only return for a TD I remember was that one year against the Raiders. Vandershank shanked us out of a chance to go into OT with the steelers. We allow ridiculous returns on K/O's and punts (Chargers game when Manning threw 6 picks, or the SB).

[GoPats]

Patriots have always been an all around better team than the Colts except maybe in 2006. Unlike the Colts they actually have very good depth and don't overpay their players them dump them (Hayden, Sanders for ex.). BB is the best head coach in NFL history period. I have never seen a coach prepare his team for an upcoming opponent like BB. This is taking nothing away from Brady because Brady is one of the best to ever play as well. I just feel while the Colts may have had more offensive talent for the most part, the Pats have had a better overall team. It's no secret our defense sucks. Freeney and Mathis are great but the other 9 don't play at the level of these 2 nor have the talent.

If the Colts would just take a page or two out of the Pats book and learn to build a complete team I'd be happy. . .I'm sick of spending top picks on offense and neglecting the defense. Brown, Ugoh, Gonzo etc. what are they doing now? 1 cut, 2 benched.

Polian should also not be so afraid to test the F/A market.

Lastly our special teams has to be the worst in the NFL in this past decade bar none. The only return for a TD I remember was that one year against the Raiders. Vandershank shanked us out of a chance to go into OT with the steelers. We allow ridiculous returns on K/O's and punts (Chargers game when Manning threw 6 picks, or the SB).

Good post.

[gspdx]

BB is the best head coach in NFL history period.

BB is one of the best - I wouldn't say the best period. Bill Walsh, Chuck Knoll, Vince Lombardi, Don Shula, Tom Landry, and I'm sure I'm missing a few. Outstanding coaches that knew how to win. I would put BB in that group though. In time he might be recognized as the best ever.

Edited October 21, 2011 by gspdx

[jcdavey]

cassel got sacked something like 47 times or so when he played for brady that season

but the answer is definitely better head coach

[-JJ-]

cassel got sacked something like 47 times or so when he played for brady that season

but the answer is definitely better head coach

LOL..he did didn't he. I forgot that:)