What's The Main Reason The Patriots Could Win Without Brady?

[Portage Coltfans]

Was it good coaching, good non-skill players, good depth, matt cassel? Seriously, it's distubing that we can't win, but the pats won 11 games. This has to show the poor drafting, depth, and overall talent we have on this team. I know we have had some close games, but "good teams find a way to win"....or I could use: "close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. "

I feel like Painter has played just as well as Cassel did back then and now for the Chiefs.

How would Polian answer this question? I think someone in the Media should.

[MPStack]

The opposing teams signals recorded.

[ruksak]

Was it good coaching, good non-skill players, good depth, matt cassel? Seriously, it's distubing that we can't win, but the pats won 11 games. This has to show the poor drafting, depth, and overall talent we have on this team. I know we have had some close games, but "good teams find a way to win"....or I could use: "close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. "

I feel like Painter has played just as well as Cassel did back then and now for the Chiefs.

How would Polian answer this question? I think someone in the Media should.

Two reasons;

1) They played defense well.

2) Their coaches didn't make mistakes.

[chad72]

Firstly, the Patriots' D is not built around Brady for one. The goal of a D is prevent the other team from scoring points, not bank on the fact that it will have a lead and play to preserve it. Outside our Pro Bowl DEs, we have issues at several key positions on D and lack playmakers in the secondary.

Second, the talent we have had returning is from a 10-6 team, and the Pats had a 16-0 team in 2007 that went 11-5 in 2008. That by itself accounts for a 5 game difference across years in the regular season. So, the least our coaches can come up with an excuse for would be 5-11, and I am not even certain they will get there.

Third, the coaching, it is definitely not in the same class as the Pats.

[ruksak]

Firstly, the Patriots' D is not built around Brady for one. The goal of a D is prevent the other team from scoring points, not bank on the fact that it will have a lead and play to preserve it. Outside our Pro Bowl DEs, we have issues at several key positions on D and lack playmakers in the secondary.

Second, the talent we have had returning is from a 10-6 team, and the Pats had a 16-0 team in 2007 that went 11-5 in 2008. That by itself accounts for a 5 game difference across years in the regular season. So, the least our coaches can come up with an excuse for would be 5-11, and I am not even certain they will get there.

Third, the coaching, it is definitely not in the same class as the Pats.

lol...thats weird. We posted near exact answers simultaneously. Quite telling indeed.

[ReMeDy]

Here are the top 5 reasons the Pats won despite not having Brady.

1.) Bill Belichick

2.) Bill Belichick

3.) Bill Belichick

4.) Bill Belichick

5.) Bill Belichick

I made a topic about this a while back, but what Bill Belichick does for the Patriots is just astronomical. When people ask me who the best player on the Patriots is, I joke, albeit seriously, "Bill Belichick." Belichick is the heart and tenacity of the team. He is the glue that keeps the team moving forward, and Belichick expects nothing less than perfection from his offense, defense, AND special teams. He knows the true meaning of 60 minute football. He is not afraid to take risks. He is a master in the NFL draft rooms. He knows how to make the most out of bad-mouthed players (ex. Moss). Finally, everything he touches turns to gold, because everyone in the league values Belichick-trained players. Belichick literally has no weaknesses. He is a god among men, and while not everyone may like him, there's no doubt everyone respects him.

http://forums.colts....__fromsearch__1

Edited October 20, 2011 by ReMeDy

[Coltssouth]

Here are the top 5 reasons the Pats won despite not having Brady.

1.) Bill Belichick

Did anyone else watch Showtime's "Inside the NFL" tonight?

They interviewed him. After watching the episodes of him on "A football life" and the show tonight I have quite changed my opinion of him.

He was talking and joking around . . . a side of him I had never seen before. I always thought he was a great coach, but had a personality problem. I've changed my mind. It's nice to see the other side of him.

[WoolMagnet]

Cuz they cheat

rotfl

[theking213]

When I watch the Patriots I see a team of players that are well coached and disciplined.

That's why they won without Brady.

[WoolMagnet]

Cuz they cheat

rotfl

I don't believe in coincidences.

Is it a coincidence that they have not had near the success after they were "caught"?

I think not.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Coaching , scheme, & preparation.

[shecolt]

I recall posting something about Ernie Adams on the old forums. While I am in no way negating that Belichick is a great coach, I often wonder how much of a role this guy has played in making him so.

For anyone who doesn't know to whom I am referring, here is a link:

http://sports.espn.g...tory?page=adams

[smittywerb]

I said this in another thread. "Our defense is built around a player who doesn't play defense." Our defense wasn't built to contribute nor stop, it is built to sustain.

Of course, in NE, when one leader fell, the top leader stood strong (Bill). People may think TB runs that team, but on the contrary, BB is the man who runs things. IMO, Jim Caldwell was never a leader, just a consultant. Reason why people ended up liking Dungy because he lead. It seemed like Peyton was answering to Moore and Dungy but now it seems like Caldwell answers to Peyton.

[P-Money]

The hood is hands down the heart and soul of the Pats. He'll be remembered as one of the greatest coaches to ever walk onto a football field. He's the Jedi master of the current NFL coaching roster. To not respect this man and his team its total foolishness. I know some Colts fans hate the Pats but you gotta admit they're an exciting team to watch play unless of course the Colts are their opponent.

[Smitto]

Its basically the colts fault for building their defense the way they have done.... id rather have the way the raiders build their defense, basically their whole team is based on the 40... no matter how big or what position you play lol... the colts in this past decade has never had a great LB or CB.... or DT the colts need some of those.

[smittywerb]

Its basically the colts fault for building their defense the way they have done.... id rather have the way the raiders build their defense, basically their whole team is based on the 40... no matter how big or what position you play lol... the colts in this past decade has never had a great LB or CB.... or DT the colts need some of those.

I have to say we had one great DT, Booger McFarland! It's funny when we had him, that was the year we won the SB. Our front 4 was vicious, our corners were solid, linebackers were ehhhh, and our safeties were beast! That front 4 and Bob Sanders made it easy on everyone else on the defense during the playoffs.

Edited October 20, 2011 by smittywerb

[coltsdan]

I cant stand the Pats, but there is no denying or questioning BB, either on this topic or in his locker room/field. he prepares and plans, and shockinginly i know, makes adjustments like no one else in the league, and probably most importantly gets the most out of his players,and maybe even more importantly than that, knows when to let them go. i have always wondered what PM could have done with a coach like BB. all of the skill in the world in PM and a HC to let him use it.

[ViriLudant]

1. Weakest schedule in NFL history.

2. They did not win ONE game against a playoff-bound team.

3. They did their homework on Matt Cassel, and had him prepared to handle the change.

4. BB.

[Smitto]

I have to say we had one great DT, Booger McFarland! It's funny when we had him, that was the year we won the SB. Our front 4 was vicious, our corners were solid, linebackers were ehhhh, and our safeties were beast! That front 4 and Bob Sanders made it easy on everyone else on the defense during the playoffs.

That was a good year, but the colts never drafted booger so i wouldnt count him.... if the colts kept or actually went after players like that every year on defense they would not be in this huge hole they're in right now.

[Fatboyslim11]

Was it good coaching, good non-skill players, good depth, matt cassel? Seriously, it's distubing that we can't win, but the pats won 11 games. This has to show the poor drafting, depth, and overall talent we have on this team. I know we have had some close games, but "good teams find a way to win"....or I could use: "close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. "

I feel like Painter has played just as well as Cassel did back then and now for the Chiefs.

How would Polian answer this question? I think someone in the Media should.

They have an organization of great people that work well together. Their front office,unlike ours, is not made up of past their prime and daddy boys. Their front office drafts and acquires players; we draft midget choirboys who get injuried early and often, and just are not physically strong enough to play NFL level football. Their coaching staff is made of tested and competent NFL professionals while ours is made up of a head coach who lost seventy five percent of his games over a 7 year span as a college HC and has been an embarrassment as a NFL Head Coach. They also make good in game adjustments and vary their schemes and approach to the opponent and game situation.

[GoPats]

First and foremost, they had a capable back-up. Cassel was never the starter at USC, but what a lot of people don't know is that he and Leinart were neck-and-neck during his final season there, and Leinart just barely beat him out. If you're a college back-up, it's not such a bad thing if you're backing up consecutive Heisman winners. He had been in the system for a few years and although he hadn't played very well in preseason games in '08, he really stepped up his game.

With the Colts it was the exact opposite... it seems like no time was invested in Painter in a "just in case" scenario, and then they signed a 40-year-old QB out of retirement about a week before the season started.

Another aspect, of course, is coaching. Belichick and his staff did a fantastic job that year for the most part.

Yet another, already mentioned, is having one of the weakest schedules in NFL history. They drew the NFC West and the AFC West, which were both very weak divisions that year. But like Viri said, they didn't win a single game that season against a playoff team.

Last but not least, and at the risk of getting torched for this...

They didn't give up. I've been watching the Manning scenario unfold, and it just seems like the entire Colts organization, from ownership all the way down to fans, have shown very little resolve in the face of losing your best player for the year (or presumably for the year). The Colts have been in position to win at least a couple of games, but in a lot of cases the team seems defeated before they even take the field. Maybe I'm projecting the doom-and-gloom I've been reading here for the past two months onto what happens out there between the numbers, but when Brady went down unexpectedly in '08, and with the disappointing ending of the 18-1 season still such a fresh wound, there was no quit in the Patriots.

[reddmmann]

If Belichick was coaching a team made mostly of second string and practice squad players, he would be 0-6 too.

[smittywerb]

People say they didn't beat a single playoff bound team...well so far, we haven't beaten any of the teams that AREN'T playoffs bound and lost to the teams that are.

Edited October 20, 2011 by smittywerb

[LUVTHESHOE]

Was it good coaching, good non-skill players, good depth, matt cassel? Seriously, it's distubing that we can't win, but the pats won 11 games. This has to show the poor drafting, depth, and overall talent we have on this team. I know we have had some close games, but "good teams find a way to win"....or I could use: "close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. "

I feel like Painter has played just as well as Cassel did back then and now for the Chiefs.

How would Polian answer this question? I think someone in the Media should.

Their coach is not tied to one scheme and is not opposed to change when something

is not working. People seem to forget the pats over the last ten years have not been blessed

with the leagues most talent and continue to win. Surmize it to say COACHING MATTERS!

[Thewholefnshow28]

Firstly, the Patriots' D is not built around Brady for one. The goal of a D is prevent the other team from scoring points, not bank on the fact that it will have a lead and play to preserve it. Outside our Pro Bowl DEs, we have issues at several key positions on D and lack playmakers in the secondary.

Second, the talent we have had returning is from a 10-6 team, and the Pats had a 16-0 team in 2007 that went 11-5 in 2008. That by itself accounts for a 5 game difference across years in the regular season. So, the least our coaches can come up with an excuse for would be 5-11, and I am not even certain they will get there.

Third, the coaching, it is definitely not in the same class as the Pats.

What a concept! Build a defense that can stop people and not rely on the offense getting a lead so you can just pass rush the QB? That is just crazy talk!

The reason why the Pats were able to play without Brady is simple. They had a real defense and had great coaching.

[BillCowher]

The hood is hands down the heart and soul of the Pats. He'll be remembered as one of the greatest coaches to ever walk onto a football field. He's the Jedi master of the current NFL coaching roster. To not respect this man and his team its total foolishness. I know some Colts fans hate the Pats but you gotta admit they're an exciting team to watch play unless of course the Colts are their opponent.

The Hoodie is the Peyton Manning of the Pats! He is the reason the Pats are and have been so successful. Everyone else on that team can be replaced and they will continue to win. This is true for the Colts as well. With Manning the Colts win at least 10 games a season. Without him they are lucky to win 4 games. No Colt fan wanted to admit this before but it is being played out in front of our eyes this season. Caldwell is a decent coach with Manning. Sub-par without him. Clark is a pro-bowler with Manning. Average TE without him. Wayne/Saturday/Vinatieri are probably the only players that are still great without Manning. I am still a big Polian fan but without Manning Polian does not look like the genious most people think he is.

[UMLBB10]

The Hoodie is the Peyton Manning of the Pats! He is the reason the Pats are and have been so successful. Everyone else on that team can be replaced and they will continue to win. This is true for the Colts as well. With Manning the Colts win at least 10 games a season. Without him they are lucky to win 4 games. No Colt fan wanted to admit this before but it is being played out in front of our eyes this season. Caldwell is a decent coach with Manning. Sub-par without him. Clark is a pro-bowler with Manning. Average TE without him. Wayne/Saturday/Vinatieri are probably the only players that are still great without Manning. I am still a big Polian fan but without Manning Polian does not look like the genious most people think he is.

Bellichick in Cleveland - Fired

Bellichick with Bledsoe - 5-13

Bellichick with Brady - winningest coach/QB combo in NFL history

[Yehoodi]

1) BB was below 0.500 with the Browns

2) Was 5-13 with the Pats until the Moe Lewis hit

3) There were a lot of Bledsoe supporters that would of been happy to see BB leave had we not won SB 36

4) As the DC of the New York Football Giants he had Harry Carson, Pepper Johnson, Banks, and a guy nickname LT

5) Matt Cassel is not as bad as some may think . . .

I know there is a lot of love for BB on this board (ty, btw) and I am very glad that he is on our team and I think he is the best coach in the league . . . however, players and coaches do not get to the top of the mountain with out the resources around him. Surely, the person will thrive and become great once given the opportunity, but we must step back for a moment and not give too much credit to that individual . . .If Darren Woodsen gets to TB a half second later in the Snow Bowl game and TB has both hands securely on the ball (and he doesn't hit TB in the head), we very very likely loose that game and are one and done and things might be a tad different . . . Altho i do think Kraft would of kept BB and BB would of kept TB and we still would have gone onto what we did 2002-2007, but if we had a more crazy owner maybe BB is replaced and is a DC somewhere

anyways with that said I would like to give my thoughts on the matter . . . i look have the following reason for our 11 wins

1) BB

2) Really weak schedule

3) Really weak schedule

4) Matt Cassel

5) our team

6) Josh McDaniels

As some one has already said we did not win much against the teams with winnng records, i believe we were 3-5 against teams with winning records (we beat Mia, NJY and Ariz (who had just clinhced the div and came cross country to play in the snow)). but we really kind of got smoked in the looses with the exception of the overtime Jets game, and were surprisingly in the Pitt game late . . . and the indy game . . .

But for me i look at the season as what I have always said and that is the difference between a solid back up and a great starter is only about 2-3 wins, and the 11 wins for the pats falls into that range . . . I think if TB played for us I think he wins 13-14 wins . . . If Matt Cassel replayed the season I think we win 10-12 games . . . i remember thinking that lets get Cassel up to speed before it is too late, too bad it was one of those years where 11 wins missed the playoffs . . .interestingly had we beaten indy, which was a close game, we make the playoffs, even more had we beaten Pitt we would of been the #2 seed . . . my reflections on the year were that we had the chance to make some noise in the playoffs had we made it, and even more so if we were the # 2 seed, that thought has been tempered to a degree due to Cassel rough playoff game last year . . .

I think easy schedule help us too, given us some easy wins during the year . . . and yes BB was a big help and coaching and managing the team in all phases on and off the field, Josh McDaniels is a great offensive mind and he had a hand in it, and our defense, altho getting old on that version on its last legs, help to a degree

but over all is was a combined effort, a solid back-up (who is now a starter and went 10-5 with KC last year), some free wins during the season, great coaching (BB-Josh), a solid WR core (Welker-Moss-Gaffney), and a solid team overall, and lastly with BB at the helm help out, but I can't really say it was all due to BB altho he was an important part being at the helm of the team . . .

Edited October 20, 2011 by Yehoodi

[Rich Cannon]

Because they actually give their backup qbs reps in practice unlike ours. Peyton Manning runs the entire practice and that shouldnt be the case. And everyone wonders why Painter was so bad, no reps virtually until this season. Not to mention the Pats staff from owners to coaching staff is superior to ours.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Rich Cannon

[John Waylon]

Here are the top 5 reasons the Pats won despite not having Brady.

1.) Bill Belichick

2.) Bill Belichick

3.) Bill Belichick

4.) Bill Belichick

5.) Bill Belichick

That is the top 10 reasons. He's built a system in New England where he is the center of the universe and "The Patriot Way" isn't just how he runs his team, it's a way of life, and the guys who play for him would do anything to keep having that privilege.

[KirkCousins#8]

Maybe its all the hidden microcameras throughtout their stadium/shower/foodcourt/parking lot/bb's hoodie and so on.Just a guess....

[Yehoodi]

Because they actually give their backup qbs reps in practice unlike ours. Peyton Manning runs the entire practice and that shouldnt be the case. And everyone wonders why Painter was so bad, no reps virtually until this season. Not to mention the Pats staff from owners to coaching staff is superior to ours.

and for what it is it was Cassel 4th yr on our team so he was famailar with our offense . . . also he played in parts of 14 games for us between 2005-2007 . . . altho he did try to win the last game against Mia in 2005 almost messing up our seeding going into the playoffs

Edited October 20, 2011 by Yehoodi

[Rich Cannon]

and for what it is it was Cassel 4th yr on our team so he was famailar with our offense . . . also he played in parts of 14 games for us between 2005-2007 . . . altho he did try to win the last game against Mia in 2005 almost messing up our seeding going into the playoffs

The point is your organization is run smoothly, and not based around Tom Brady. Your coaches know how to coach unlike ours. You owner brings in talent on both sides of the ball consistently, especially when you are lacking in one particualr area. :ttth:

Edited October 20, 2011 by Rich Cannon

[-JJ-]

Most of the answers above are correct.

To summarize

1.Depth- that is BB's biggest concern

2. Preparation,focus on winning,(if you're not reading your playbook you're outta here) tackling etc... = coaching

3. It was a weak schedule..nonetheless it's the NFL

4. Cassel got better each game as they opened up the playbook. Again, coaching.

Bottom line- Belichick.

Belchick philosphy in no particular order

1. Situtational football for every possible situation (including 22 second hail mary defense) drilled into all players (this is huge and is how he coaches)

2. Depth. He knows injuries are part of the game. Hence we get less stars but quality backups

3.Defense- He doesn't like being run over (so a Dline is paramount) or the ball going over his head for big plays.

4. If you don't like football 100% and study 100% then Foxboro is no place for you.

5.Redzone offense and defense, and turnovers are his stats criteria. Yards mean nothing to him.

6.Everyone is equal including the famous Tom Brady. He will be chewed out like anyone else.

[John Waylon]

Most of the answers above are correct.

To summarize

1.Depth- that is BB's biggest concern

2. Preparation,focus on winning,(if you're not reading your playbook you're outta here) tackling etc... = coaching

3. It was a weak schedule..nonetheless it's the NFL

4. Cassel got better each game as they opened up the playbook. Again, coaching.

Bottom line- Belichick.

Belchick philosphy in no particular order

1. Situtational football for every possible situation (including 22 second hail mary defense) drilled into all players (this is huge and is how he coaches)

2. Depth. He knows injuries are part of the game. Hence we get less stars but quality backups

3.Defense- He doesn't like being run over (so a Dline is paramount) or the ball going over his head for big plays.

4. If you don't like football 100% and study 100% then Foxboro is no place for you.

5.Redzone offense and defense, and turnovers are his stats criteria. Yards mean nothing to him.

6.Everyone is equal including the famous Tom Brady. He will be chewed out like anyone else.

He really is the Vince Lombardi of our age.

[dn4192]

they got incredibly lucky. Period, they had a backup QB with talent and also were not experincing offensive line issues and sever defensive back issues. There are very few teams that could suffer the amount of injuries to key personal like the Colts have and won.

[dn4192]

Here are the top 5 reasons the Pats won despite not having Brady.

1.) Bill Belichick

2.) Bill Belichick

3.) Bill Belichick

4.) Bill Belichick

5.) Bill Belichick

I made a topic about this a while back, but what Bill Belichick does for the Patriots is just astronomical. When people ask me who the best player on the Patriots is, I joke, albeit seriously, "Bill Belichick." Belichick is the heart and tenacity of the team. He is the glue that keeps the team moving forward, and Belichick expects nothing less than perfection from his offense, defense, AND special teams. He knows the true meaning of 60 minute football. He is not afraid to take risks. He is a master in the NFL draft rooms. He knows how to make the most out of bad-mouthed players (ex. Moss). Finally, everything he touches turns to gold, because everyone in the league values Belichick-trained players. Belichick literally has no weaknesses. He is a god among men, and while not everyone may like him, there's no doubt everyone respects him.

http://forums.colts....__fromsearch__1

Could you please explain why if so great ole Bill was horrible in Cleveland....

[-JJ-]

He really is the Vince Lombardi of our age.

yeah, I'm going to have to agree with you on this.

Every pats fan,myself, should be so lucky to have him.

Thankyou Kraft:)

[-JJ-]

Could you please explain why if so great ole Bill was horrible in Cleveland....

Simple. I wasn't so good in my job years ago. People actually do improve.

Also from what I understand (haven't studied it) it did make improvements.

[John Waylon]

Could you please explain why if so great ole Bill was horrible in Cleveland....

Because he's been given the control to do the things he wants. Bill is not just the coach in New England... He might as well be the GM... If he requests the Patriots go out and get this guy or that guy, they get him. If he says he wants to draft this guy, they draft him.

And they got lucky for having matt cassell? Erm, no, matt cassell got lucky for having the Patriots. He's been a slight step up from mark sanchez as a starting QB, and that's not at all flattery.