Big Ben says Tom Brady is best QB

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Which goes back to 1 of my earlier points that the Commissioner had the authority to eliminate any question over the "alleged videotaping" by releasing the tapes themselves...

 

"The absence of direct evidence doesn't quality as direct evidence. If fans want to get upset at someone, aim that venom at Roger Goodell not Bill Belichick & the NE Patriots. JMO."

That makes zero logical sense.  The person responsible for handling the situation (Goodell) saw the tapes and handed out the punishment he saw fit.  How does him not releasing the evidence mean anything? The Patriots did not appeal, they accepted the punishment, which means no further action was necessary.  Because we didn't actually see the tapes, then it didn't happen?

[southwest1]

No, just like you can't read the hundreds of articles on this subject

Articles by journalists no matter how comprehensive they may be is not direct evidence. At best, it's heresy or 2nd or 3rd hand Jvan.

 

Even if Bill acknowledged hand signals were taped, with no evidence to confirm that alleged statement. It means absolutely nothing. 

 

Possession is 9 tenths of the law & so is corroboration  "evidence that confirms or supports a statement, theory, or finding; confirmation." 

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Articles by journalists no matter how comprehensive they may be is not direct evidence. At best, it's heresy or 2nd or 3rd hand Jvan.

 

Even if Bill acknowledged hand signals were taped, with no evidence to confirm that alleged statement. It means absolutely nothing. 

 

Possession is 9 tenths of the law & so corroboration  "evidence that confirms or supports a statement, theory, or finding; confirmation." 

You are completely off base.  You are basically saying that a jury of one's peers found a murder suspect guilty based on physical evidence presented to the court.  But because you never actually saw the physical evidence yourself, you don't believe the suspect to be guilty, and you are not willing to accept the judgement of the people with far more knowledge of the situation.

[SkyBane]

Articles by journalists no matter how comprehensive they may be is not direct evidence. At best, it's heresy or 2nd or 3rd hand Jvan.

Even if Bill acknowledged hand signals were taped, with no evidence to confirm that alleged statement. It means absolutely nothing.

Possession is 9 tenths of the law & so is corroboration "evidence that confirms or supports a statement, theory, or finding; confirmation."

You do realize that Goodell had no choice but to destroy the tapes right? Releasing them publically would be death to every team that was recorded and destroy his league he is sworn to oversee. Releasing them would only happen to prove innocence, the fact they were destroyed is evedince of what they contained.

Your inability to accept that spygate happened when NE was punished for it and admitted to it happening makes you out to be a tinfoil hat wearing looney.

NE is still a good team that has accomplished much, but to deny that spygate happened is laughable beyond words.

[jvan1973]

Articles by journalists no matter how comprehensive they may be is not direct evidence. At best, it's heresy or 2nd or 3rd hand Jvan.

Even if Bill acknowledged hand signals were taped, with no evidence to confirm that alleged statement. It means absolutely nothing.

Possession is 9 tenths of the law & so is corroboration "evidence that confirms or supports a statement, theory, or finding; confirmation."

Well, the commissioner knew they cheated, the pats know they cheated. Pretty much everyone knows they cheated but you. So I'm done with you on this topic.

[southwest1]

That makes zero logical sense.  The person responsible for handling the situation (Goodell) saw the tapes and handed out the punishment he saw fit.  How does him not releasing the evidence mean anything? The Patriots did not appeal, they accepted the punishment, which means no further action was necessary.  Because we didn't actually see the tapes, then it didn't happen?

No, one is saying it didn't happen, but the only one who can, Roger Goodell, has chosen to remain silent. Therefore, we are at a stalemate. That's the whole point & the lynch pin of your whole argument right there.

 

No one knows what was said between BB, Robert Kraft, & Roger Goodell. It's like a gag order & a non disclosure agreement both sides agree to said terms & agree to never speak of this matter again. 

 

Believing something & proving it is a monumental feat when both parties remain silent on an issue, scandal, or disciplinary matter. 

[southwest1]

You do realize that Goodell had no choice but to destroy the tapes right? Releasing them publically would be death to every team that was recorded and destroy his league he is sworn to oversee. Releasing them would only happen to prove innocence, the fact they were destroyed is evedince of what they contained.

Your inability to accept that spygate happened when NE was punished for it and admitted to it happening makes you out to be a tinfoil hat wearing looney.

NE is still a good team that has accomplished much, but to deny that spygate happened is laughable beyond words.

I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm saying that neither side acknowledged "cheating" directly. If you find direct evidence,  I will be more than happy to look at it. 

 

The best way to solve something is to show all the evidence directly & let the chips fall where they may. Shakeups to the core of NFL Headquarters is always a good thing. Hiding a scandal & participating in it's coverup is even worse than the actual problem. Just ask President Nixon & the Watergate fallout that ensued...

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm saying that neither side acknowledged "cheating" directly. If you find direct evidence,  I will be more than happy to look at it. 

The lack of a first round draft pick and a good chunk of money is proof.

[SkyBane]

I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm saying that neither side acknowledged "cheating" directly. If you find direct evidence, I will be more than happy to look at it.

So youre saying the recording of opposing sidelines, which is cheating, happened, but neither side directly refered to it as cheating, so it wasnt?

That is the single most bizzare train of logic Ive ever seen. Im not one to say put an asterisk by their superbowl wins for it, because those were still very good teams, but its ridiculous to try and defend it.

Surely you can see how the tapes had to be destroyed to protect the recorded, and how accepting punishment for doing it is admission of guilt for wrongdoing. Its very simple logic here.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

So youre saying the recording of opposing sidelines, which is cheating, happened, but neither side directly refered to it as cheating, so it wasnt?

That is the single most bizzare train of logic Ive ever seen. Im not one to say put an asterisk by their superbowl wins for it, because those were still very good teams, but its ridiculous to try and defend it.

Surely you can see how the tapes had to be destroyed to protect the recorded, and how accepting punishment for doing it is admission of guilt for wrongdoing. Its very simple logic here.

I honestly never have and never will hold it against the Pats for doing it.  I don't use the "haven't won since spygate" thing, especially when I think there's a decent chance other teams were doing it on some level.  That said, saying it didn't happen or that the Pats just gave up a pick because they didn't want to fight it or something like that is absolutely ridiculous. 

[dw49]

lol. You have obviously missed Brady's ninja-like moves in the pocket over the years.

How stupid to LOL me and back it up by saying Brady is a ninja. How about you spend a minute and look up which guy despite some horrific offensive lines was sacked far fewer times in far more passing attempts. Fine to be a Tom Brady fan but there is a limit to everything before it becomes ignorance.

[amfootball]

How stupid to LOL me and back it up by saying Brady is a ninja. How about you spend a minute and look up which guy despite some horrific offensive lines was sacked far fewer times in far more passing attempts. Fine to be a Tom Brady fan but there is a limit to everything before it becomes ignorance.

I was joking. You need to take things less seriously man. As with everything with Manning and Brady, I would put pocket presence as 1 and 1A. You won't find two better immobile QBs in the pocket except for maybe Dan Marino who was pretty superb too.

[TAPLOOK]

So far only one QB mentioned has more wins this season than Brady and that guy has the best receiving core in the NFL. Brady has the worst. Go figure?

 

The guy in KC is worth mentioning. I'm very happy for him. FU SF.

[Dustin]

So far only one QB has more wins this season than Brady and that guy has the best receiving core in the NFL. Brady has the worst. Go figure?

 

TIL Dwayne Bowe, Dexter McCluster, and Donnie Avery is the best receiving corps in the NFL. 

[dw49]

I was joking. You need to take things less seriously man. As with everything with Manning and Brady, I would put pocket presence as 1 and 1A. You won't find two better immobile QBs in the pocket except for maybe Dan Marino who was pretty superb too.

 

 

Yeah , I realized later that you probably were doing just that. 

[TAPLOOK]

TIL Dwayne Bowe, Dexter McCluster, and Donnie Avery is the best receiving corps in the NFL. 

 

 

???? you lost me there Dustin.

[Dustin]

???? you lost me there Dustin.

 

You edited your comment on me. 

[TAPLOOK]

You edited your comment on me. 

 

Ok I see.

[AntonMcG]

How pathetic is it when your QB is playing so horrendously that you have to come onto other teams forums and post articles about how some guy thinks he's the best ever.

 

Talk about napoleon complex.

[TAPLOOK]

How pathetic is it when your QB is playing so horrendously that you have to come onto other teams forums and post articles about how some guy thinks he's the best ever.

 

Talk about napoleon complex.

Well it did provoke 4 pages of discussion?

[AntonMcG]

Well it did provoke 4 pages of discussion?

 

It always does.

[Kyle]

Are you trying to just be funny? Rodgers is quoted as saying "No order except for Tom being the best." Who do you think he is referring to?

i was just messing with you BUT the quote above is not in your earlier post.  I just call 'em like I see 'em.

[dw49]

So youre saying the recording of opposing sidelines, which is cheating, happened, but neither side directly refered to it as cheating, so it wasnt?

That is the single most bizzare train of logic Ive ever seen. Im not one to say put an asterisk by their superbowl wins for it, because those were still very good teams, but its ridiculous to try and defend it.

Surely you can see how the tapes had to be destroyed to protect the recorded, and how accepting punishment for doing it is admission of guilt for wrongdoing. Its very simple logic here.

 

 

 

I think you put an abrupt end to that one.

 

You also might want to mention that the fine was very large and a first round draft pick is a monster penalty. 

 

It's a little like someone taking a plea bargain to a lessor charge in court. There is no trial and the guilty party accepts the punishment. Only in this case , there was no "formal" admission of guilt.

[amfootball]

i was just messing with you BUT the quote above is not in your earlier post.  I just call 'em like I see 'em.

You may need to get your eyes checked then. See post #22 and you will see the quote and the part about Tom in bold.

[GoPats]

I've been (regrettably, for the most part) involved in enough Spygate conversations to realize that most people have no idea what actually happened, or why the Patriots were penalized.

 

Here is a good resource if you want to work with facts:

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extras/spygate/

 

The punishment was pretty severe, but that was in part due to the fact that Goodell had issued a memo to all teams specifically about this rule a short time before that season began.

 

If you're a parent, think of it along the lines of catching your kid doing something that they didn't know they weren't supposed to do, versus catching them doing something you specifically warned them not to do. I know I come down harder on my kids if their actions are deliberately disobedient than when they're just being kids and don't know any better.

 

The whole thing is just silly at this point, regardless. If you think Spygate had a big role in the Patriots' success in the early 2000s, no one will ever convince you otherwise. There is a mountain of evidence to support the contrary, but whatever. Opinions are like bum-bums. Everyone's got one.  ;)

[Kyle]

You may need to get your eyes checked then. See post #22 and you will see the quote and the part about Tom in bold.

 touché

[Kyle]

I've been (regrettably, for the most part) involved in enough Spygate conversations to realize that most people have no idea what actually happened, or why the Patriots were penalized.

 

Here is a good resource if you want to work with facts:

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extras/spygate/

 

The punishment was pretty severe, but that was in part due to the fact that Goodell had issued a memo to all teams specifically about this rule a short time before that season began.

 

If you're a parent, think of it along the lines of catching your kid doing something that they didn't know they weren't supposed to do, versus catching them doing something you specifically warned them not to do. I know I come down harder on my kids if their actions are deliberately disobedient than when they're just being kids and don't know any better.

 

The whole thing is just silly at this point, regardless. If you think Spygate had a big role in the Patriots' success in the early 2000s, no one will ever convince you otherwise. There is a mountain of evidence to support the contrary, but whatever. Opinions are like bum-bums. Everyone's got one.  ;)

do you think the patriots would be more successful on offense this year if they had video of teams defensive play calling signals?

what if they had a video of a practice walkthrough from the day before the game and the other team didnt know?

 

i sure do.  I think any QB or offensive coordinator would love that info.

[amfootball]

I've been (regrettably, for the most part) involved in enough Spygate conversations to realize that most people have no idea what actually happened, or why the Patriots were penalized.

 

Here is a good resource if you want to work with facts:

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extras/spygate/

 

The punishment was pretty severe, but that was in part due to the fact that Goodell had issued a memo to all teams specifically about this rule a short time before that season began.

 

If you're a parent, think of it along the lines of catching your kid doing something that they didn't know they weren't supposed to do, versus catching them doing something you specifically warned them not to do. I know I come down harder on my kids if their actions are deliberately disobedient than when they're just being kids and don't know any better.

 

The whole thing is just silly at this point, regardless. If you think Spygate had a big role in the Patriots' success in the early 2000s, no one will ever convince you otherwise. There is a mountain of evidence to support the contrary, but whatever. Opinions are like bum-bums. Everyone's got one.  ;)

If there was one coach who would have been damaged the most by spygate, it was Bill Cowher as the Pats beat his Steelers twice in the AFC champ games in Pitt during their SB run. Here are some of his quotes on it:

 

On December 3rd, former Steelers head coach Bill Cowher made an appearance on the "Felger and Massarotti Show" on 98.5 The Sports Hub. In this radio interview, Coach Cowher was asked about the taping the Patriots did and the possible effect it had against his Steelers when they played. He also mentions that when he was coach, he did his own share of sign stealing. He admitted during the interview that he didn't believe what New England did was as bad as it was made out to be, nor did he think it cost his team a win in any of those meetings.

 

"Oh, heck no! I mean honestly, the taping that was involved in that story, was the taping of Tom Brady making some pretty accurate throws, and that's what beat us," said Cowher. "That's the only taping that I remember. You know what? Listen, all that stuff at this point, I think a lot of it is overblown. Did they know the signals maybe of our Monday night when we came up there? You know, so what. Sometimes I thought we knew some plays because they got in certain formations. The bottom line is you've got to execute."

 

"The bottom line is they completed passes and they beat one-on-one situations better than we were able to defend them. So you know what? The game is still played between the lines, the game is still played by men, and it comes down to executing. Certainly anticipation helps, and certainly if you can know some things in a pre-snap that can help you execute, so be it. But right now, all those things are moot points because everybody's got communication. The defense has it, the offense has it, so all this 'signal calling/stealing' of the years past are that - in the past."

 

 

http://www.patsfans.com/articles/patriots/3508/SpyGate--The-Most-Overblown-Story-of-the-Decade.html

[Buck Showalter]

I haven't read all three pages of this thread, but I will say that in the past whenever I put money against the Pats, thinking that the Pats wouldn't cover, it has been the one game to destroy my parlay...

so now one of my few rules on betting  includes NOT betting against Tom Brady...

[Le Neon]

Well it did provoke 4 pages of discussion?

Colts fans are apparently easy marks...

;)

[GoPats]

do you think the patriots would be more successful on offense this year if they had video of teams defensive play calling signals?

what if they had a video of a practice walkthrough from the day before the game and the other team didnt know?

 

i sure do.  I think any QB or offensive coordinator would love that info.

 

 

1. Defensive calls are not signaled in anymore. Defensive players started having radios put in their helmets (like QBs) a few years ago. I'm sure teams still have signals for emergency situations (if the audio fails, injuries in-game, etc), but it would be a somewhat obsolete practice today.

 

2. The Patriots never had a video of the Rams' walk-through. That's speaks right to what I'm saying about people having opinions without actually knowing facts. The story was proven to be baseless speculation and the Boston Herald printed a major retraction. 

 

3. Spygate happened in 2007. The Patriots offense is struggling right now, but it's 2013. I don't know if you just started watching football, but their offense was pretty good from 2007-2012. If you're equating their recent struggles to not having video of other teams' signals, your argument is weak, because it doesn't explain why they had a top offense for the 6 years in between Spygate and this season.

[Moose Of Woe]

I'll say this about spygate then just leave it alone -

 

The Patriots were an offensive juggernaut 2007-semi current even without video tapes. They were also a vastly superior team talent wise on offense compared to their SB years. Great QB, great O-line, great receiver set, good running backs.  The Pats hardly needed any further advantage.

 

During the SB years the offense was, O-line aside, not that amazing. Brady was collected under pressure, but his arm (while accurate) was not the cannon it is now. (injury aside) The receivers and backs were all right. The advantages of knowing exactly what the other team is going to do would certainly help an offense like this out - particularly when we're talking about winning all three Superbowls by three points a pop and with a LOT of luck/calls on the way to two of them. In a world where one play/bounce is often the deciding factor, knowing the other team's plays makes a crap ton of difference.

 

It happened. They got caught. The videos were destroyed in order to try and save face, which makes it look even worse than releasing the evidence. Goodell is rolling with the idea that not releasing the videos is better than blatantly having three of the NFL's championships tarnished for the world to see. This way he can at least keep some ambiguity to it by handing out a fine and taking away draft picks/basically saying, "Trust me this is the right punishment" rather than letting us all see the extent of the damage and what it truly warrants.

 

Even if you wash all that out, BB is a smart guy. With how stingy the Patriots are with money, resources, etc BB wouldn't do something unless he had something meaningful to gain from it. The Patriots are far from the only team to do this, but that doesn't make it right and they're the ones who got caught.

[GoPats]

I'll say this about spygate then just leave it alone -

 

The Patriots were an offensive juggernaut 2007-semi current even without video tapes. They were also a vastly superior team talent wise on offense compared to their SB years. Great QB, great O-line, great receiver set, good running backs.  The Pats hardly needed any further advantage.

 

During the SB years the offense was, O-line aside, not that amazing. Brady was collected under pressure, but his arm (while accurate) was not the cannon it is now. (injury aside) The receivers and backs were all right. The advantages of knowing exactly what the other team is going to do would certainly help an offense like this out - particularly when we're talking about winning all three Superbowls by three points a pop and with a LOT of luck/calls on the way to two of them. In a world where one play/bounce is often the deciding factor, knowing the other team's plays makes a crap ton of difference.

 

It happened. They got caught. The videos were destroyed in order to try and save face, which makes it look even worse than releasing the evidence. Goodell is rolling with the idea that not releasing the videos is better than blatantly having three of the NFL's championships tarnished for the world to see. This way he can at least keep some ambiguity to it by handing out a fine and taking away draft picks/basically saying, "Trust me this is the right punishment" rather than letting us all see the extent of the damage and what it truly warrants.

 

Even if you wash all that out, BB is a smart guy. With how stingy the Patriots are with money, resources, etc BB wouldn't do something unless he had something meaningful to gain from it. The Patriots are far from the only team to do this, but that doesn't make it right and they're the ones who got caught.

 

Good post. 

[amfootball]

I'll say this about spygate then just leave it alone -

 

The Patriots were an offensive juggernaut 2007-semi current even without video tapes. They were also a vastly superior team talent wise on offense compared to their SB years. Great QB, great O-line, great receiver set, good running backs.  The Pats hardly needed any further advantage.

 

During the SB years the offense was, O-line aside, not that amazing. Brady was collected under pressure, but his arm (while accurate) was not the cannon it is now. (injury aside) The receivers and backs were all right. The advantages of knowing exactly what the other team is going to do would certainly help an offense like this out - particularly when we're talking about winning all three Superbowls by three points a pop and with a LOT of luck/calls on the way to two of them. In a world where one play/bounce is often the deciding factor, knowing the other team's plays makes a crap ton of difference.

 

It happened. They got caught. The videos were destroyed in order to try and save face, which makes it look even worse than releasing the evidence. Goodell is rolling with the idea that not releasing the videos is better than blatantly having three of the NFL's championships tarnished for the world to see. This way he can at least keep some ambiguity to it by handing out a fine and taking away draft picks/basically saying, "Trust me this is the right punishment" rather than letting us all see the extent of the damage and what it truly warrants.

 

Even if you wash all that out, BB is a smart guy. With how stingy the Patriots are with money, resources, etc BB wouldn't do something unless he had something meaningful to gain from it. The Patriots are far from the only team to do this, but that doesn't make it right and they're the ones who got caught.

Overall good post but the only part I take issue with is the bolded. Pats were taping signals not plays - BIG difference. They were trying to ferret out tendencies based on the signals assuming they could even dicipher the signals and that the signals they taped were actual signals and not dummy signals as most teams switched up their signals half to half or quarter to quarter.

 

To then take their SB wins because they were close games and somehow make that justify the advantage they got is just plain silly given the two SBs they lost after spygate were by a combined 7 points and were decided by the other team making a few plays and some luck.

 

I think the real baraometer you have to look at is how the Pats performed AFTER spygate. As you say, they went 18-1 the year that they stopped taping and since then they have averaged more points on offense and have a better winning percentage and made the big game TWICE. I mean at some point the proof is in the pudding. Afterall, like you say the defensive signal taping was supposed to help Brady and the O the most and since then Brady became one of the most profolic QBs in the league and won two league MVPs along with Bill winning two coach of the year awards.

[-JJ-]

I'll say this about spygate then just leave it alone -

 

The Patriots were an offensive juggernaut 2007-semi current even without video tapes. They were also a vastly superior team talent wise on offense compared to their SB years. Great QB, great O-line, great receiver set, good running backs.  The Pats hardly needed any further advantage.

 

During the SB years the offense was, O-line aside, not that amazing. Brady was collected under pressure, but his arm (while accurate) was not the cannon it is now. (injury aside) The receivers and backs were all right. The advantages of knowing exactly what the other team is going to do would certainly help an offense like this out - particularly when we're talking about winning all three Superbowls by three points a pop and with a LOT of luck/calls on the way to two of them. In a world where one play/bounce is often the deciding factor, knowing the other team's plays makes a crap ton of difference.

 

It happened. They got caught. The videos were destroyed in order to try and save face, which makes it look even worse than releasing the evidence. Goodell is rolling with the idea that not releasing the videos is better than blatantly having three of the NFL's championships tarnished for the world to see. This way he can at least keep some ambiguity to it by handing out a fine and taking away draft picks/basically saying, "Trust me this is the right punishment" rather than letting us all see the extent of the damage and what it truly warrants.

 

Even if you wash all that out, BB is a smart guy. With how stingy the Patriots are with money, resources, etc BB wouldn't do something unless he had something meaningful to gain from it. The Patriots are far from the only team to do this, but that doesn't make it right and they're the ones who got caught.

FYI those 6 tapes destroyed got leaked and was on FOX TV for a short while. I watched all 6 and they were all the same as the first. Extremely boring. Video of Jets sidelines, then pan to scoreboard, back to Jets sidelines and Jets coaches waving back at the camera.

Now video camera stealing signs is easier than using binocs and field phones but in the end the same.

Unless of course you had some military hitech realtime satellite equipment feed into Brady's helmet ;)

[jvan1973]

FYI those 6 tapes destroyed got leaked and was on FOX TV for a short while. I watched all 6 and they were all the same as the first. Extremely boring. Video of Jets sidelines, then pan to scoreboard, back to Jets sidelines and Jets coaches waving back at the camera.

Now video camera stealing signs is easier than using binocs and field phones but in the end the same.

Unless of course you had some military hitech realtime satellite equipment feed into Brady's helmet ;)

if the videos in question were ever on tv they would be accessible to anyone online. I dont think those tapes were ever released to the media

[Yehoodi]

if the videos in question were ever on tv they would be accessible to anyone online. I dont think those tapes were ever released to the media

 

at least one was leaked to the media and it made it on TV . . . a portion was shown with a video of the jets coaches then the camera panned to the scoreboard showing down and distance then back to the coaches . . .  

[Moose Of Woe]

Overall good post but the only part I take issue with is the bolded. Pats were taping signals not plays - BIG difference. They were trying to ferret out tendencies based on the signals assuming they could even dicipher the signals and that the signals they taped were actual signals and not dummy signals as most teams switched up their signals half to half or quarter to quarter.

 

 

FYI those 6 tapes destroyed got leaked and was on FOX TV for a short while. I watched all 6 and they were all the same as the first. Extremely boring. Video of Jets sidelines, then pan to scoreboard, back to Jets sidelines and Jets coaches waving back at the camera.

 

 

at least one was leaked to the media and it made it on TV . . . a portion was shown with a video of the jets coaches then the camera panned to the scoreboard showing down and distance then back to the coaches . . .  

 

 

if the videos in question were ever on tv they would be accessible to anyone online. I dont think those tapes were ever released to the media

 

 

Like I said I don't want to get knee deep in this. I'll just go back to what I said in my previous post.

 

Ultimately, if BB went through the effort of doing something like this, it was for a good reason. He's too smart to waste company time/money if it were a pointless endeavor.

[Yehoodi]

Like I said I don't want to get knee deep in this. I'll just go back to what I said in my previous post.

 

Ultimately, if BB went through the effort of doing something like this, it was for a good reason. He's too smart to waste company time/money if it were a pointless endeavor.

 

I don't want to get into this as am watching TNF, but for me Spygate was not a big as many try to make it out . . . he used the videos during the off season for the evaluation of his coaches . . . he taped every game since he was in NE in 2000 which is about 120 games or so including playoffs . . . and he did not keep them, as his evaluation was done each year . . . consequently he only had 6 tapes at the start of the 2007 season . . . as opposed to a large archive of tapes . . .  

 

had he been using it for the ill gotten usage some try to make out that he did, he would of archived the tapes and would of had some several hundred  . . .

 

Regardless for an act that he did each game since he was in NE, to only have 6 tapes archived is telling on how important, well lack of importance, BB had in the videos . . .

 

if people think logically for a moment, if you are using them to track signals of coaches it would be prudent to save them and have a dossier on each coach and/or teams . . . and as you have indicated that the only way the pats would use it was in manner in full force in the endeavor they choose . . . a lack of an archive is a proof that they were not in the business of tracking coaches signals . . . for if they were, and were smart and prudent using all the resources you said they would, than the pats would of had a large archive . . .

[-JJ-]

if the videos in question were ever on tv they would be accessible to anyone online. I dont think those tapes were ever released to the media

They weren't released.. they were leaked. They were pulled/recalled shortly thereafter by the NFL. Maybe a day or two.I did see them. It was Fox.