PFF: "Richardson Working Hard for Minimal Gains"

[husker61]

I’ll risk alienating myself from my fellow Colts fans by saying I appreciate your perspective on this and I think you were making valid points.  After watching many of the Brown games on NFL Game Rewind  (condensed games) I completely understand your point of view.

 

 

There are flashes of talent there, but not realized at this point in his NFL career.  I agree the elite/stud/star/top-5/beast talk is way overstated and that’s one of the points you were making.

 

 

 

i agree.

[AgentOrange]

If he has a YPC over 4.0, then the Colts can claim it was a good move to give up a 1st round draft pick for Richardson.

 

Lol, you think 4.0 YPC is a satisfactory return on an investment of a 1st round pick?

In 2012, that would have put him in Jonathan Dwyer/Bilal Powell territory, tied for 23rd among RB qualifiers.

Would you consider it a good move to trade a 1st round pick for Jonathan Dwyer?

[husker61]

Lol, you think 4.0 YPC is a satisfactory return on an investment of a 1st round pick?

In 2012, that would have put him in Jonathan Dwyer/Bilal Powell territory, tied for 23rd among RB qualifiers.

Would you consider it a good move to trade a 1st round pick for Jonathan Dwyer?

 

that's what you get when the bar is set so low.

[Vance]

BPG's points are solid. Low YPC and not finding the hole were the knocks on him in Cleveland, and so far he's done the same for Indy. I think his suggestion of using him as a Darren Sproles-type running back is a good idea.

[GoColts8818]

Sometimes with power guys it just takes time it took Lynch a few years and a new team to become the back he is and I think that's who the colts think Richardson can become.

[chrisfarley]

I thought T Rich ran with heart last night.  Just didn't get enough opportunities.

Did you mean, "Just didn't get enough blocking"  ?

[lollygagger8]

If Richardson can do this in open space, someone please explain to me why we only did this once!??! 

 

Ray Rice has made a living off of passes out of the backfield and he is hard to bring down in open space as well. Jim freakin Caldwell can figure it out....hello!

 

 

 

 

 

[AgentOrange]

Ray Rice also has a career YPC of 4.4 (4.5 prior to his slow start this season).

[lollygagger8]

Ray Rice also has a career YPC of 4.4 (4.5 prior to his slow start this season).

 

But some of his catches out of the backfield are monster. We should be exploiting our players strengths. 

 

Also, 

 

Flacco < Luck 

[NewEra]

Sometimes with power guys it just takes time it took Lynch a few years and a new team to become the back he is and I think that's who the colts think Richardson can become.

Hey you stop that!! Trent sucks! Lol

Serious though, you're right. I don't remember Lynch doing squat for Buffalo. And look at him now, he's getting paper!!

[jshipp23]

Hey you stop that!! Trent sucks! Lol

Serious though, you're right. I don't remember Lynch doing squat for Buffalo. And look at him now, he's getting paper!!

Other examples are Priest Holmes, Jamal Lewis, and Ahmad Bradshaw...Usually the power guys for some reason take a little longer to reach potential..

[OffensivelyPC]

Other examples are Priest Holmes, Jamal Lewis, and Ahmad Bradshaw...Usually the power guys for some reason take a little longer to reach potential..

Maybe except MJD and S-Jax, as far as active players go.  The bottom line though, and really my only point all along is, some guys come in and immediately do well.  Other guys, 1 year (Foster, Rice), 2 years (Spiller), 3 years (Forte), or more (Bush and Lynch took 5 before peaking out).  i'm not saying any of the guys I mentioned are top 10, or even if they are worth a 1st round pick. 

 

All I'm saying is that while they may not be living up to the draft pick now, it's still too young in Richardson's career to judge what he's done up to this point and say, "Yep, that's as good as he's ever going to get."  Were that even a possibility, Colts would have never given up a first rounder for him.  If it were true that you could look at all prospects and say that he is fully developed by Week 7 of his sophmore season, no businessman in their right mind would take on the risk of the last 4 weeks and give up a first round pick for Richardson.   They would just simply wait until 4 weeks later, let the Browns take on the risk of Richardson not getting better, and give up a 1st round pick later. 

[will426]

Trent likes to run up the middle..the thing is the middle of the line is where he is by the time he grabs the ball..yet ppl get mad because he's turning negative yardage plays into 2-3 yard gains..I mean it's pretty darn obvious what's happening when he's on the field just look..dhb is on the field but no one certainly cares about him catching so they know he's blocking..Hilton's not in so you know they aren't going deep..or there's Reggie who is going to be focused on just incase of pa because he's the number one.. Goal line formations at our 20 on a first down is not the key to success..I'd rather see us run draws at least there won't be 90% of the players on the field focusing on Trent when he takes a handoff.

[drums1st]

I think there only a few backs worth a #1 pick. Thus far TRich for me hasn't shown he's one of those. But as has been pointed out, there are a lot of factors. So, lets see if the O-line improves, TRich's vision improves, Pep's play calling improves & receivers stop

dropping the football. All these are factors in run game success. I think he's more of a power guy than a break long runs guy.        As the season progress'es TRich's playbook familiarity will also increase. I think by mid next season, we'll have a good idea of the true ability of TRich as a runner. As usual time will tell. 

 

Live long & prosper. 

[AgentOrange]

Other examples are Priest Holmes, Jamal Lewis, and Ahmad Bradshaw...Usually the power guys for some reason take a little longer to reach potential..

Those guys all averaged 4.3 ypc or better their rookie year.

[NewEra]

Other examples are Priest Holmes, Jamal Lewis, and Ahmad Bradshaw...Usually the power guys for some reason take a little longer to reach potential..

I loved Jamal Lewis!

[jshipp23]

Maybe except MJD and S-Jax, as far as active players go.  The bottom line though, and really my only point all along is, some guys come in and immediately do well.  Other guys, 1 year (Foster, Rice), 2 years (Spiller), 3 years (Forte), or more (Bush and Lynch took 5 before peaking out).  i'm not saying any of the guys I mentioned are top 10, or even if they are worth a 1st round pick. 

 

All I'm saying is that while they may not be living up to the draft pick now, it's still too young in Richardson's career to judge what he's done up to this point and say, "Yep, that's as good as he's ever going to get."  Were that even a possibility, Colts would have never given up a first rounder for him.  If it were true that you could look at all prospects and say that he is fully developed by Week 7 of his sophmore season, no businessman in their right mind would take on the risk of the last 4 weeks and give up a first round pick for Richardson.   They would just simply wait until 4 weeks later, let the Browns take on the risk of Richardson not getting better, and give up a 1st round pick later. 

I think people forget he is only 22 and the 3 offensive systems...More than anything his toughness durability and blocking are already there..Once he starts playing instinctively and gets better play calls and has half a chance the rest of the doubters will jump on the bandwagon...There will be plenty of room...

[jshipp23]

Trent likes to run up the middle..the thing is the middle of the line is where he is by the time he grabs the ball..yet ppl get mad because he's turning negative yardage plays into 2-3 yard gains..I mean it's pretty darn obvious what's happening when he's on the field just look..dhb is on the field but no one certainly cares about him catching so they know he's blocking..Hilton's not in so you know they aren't going deep..or there's Reggie who is going to be focused on just incase of pa because he's the number one.. Goal line formations at our 20 on a first down is not the key to success..I'd rather see us run draws at least there won't be 90% of the players on the field focusing on Trent when he takes a handoff.

Exactly...most can't or refuse to see this fact for some reason is beyond me, almost like they want him to fail, it's crazy..

[ruksak]

I think people forget he is only 22 and the 3 offensive systems...More than anything his toughness durability and blocking are already there..Once he starts playing instinctively and gets better play calls and has half a chance the rest of the doubters will jump on the bandwagon...There will be plenty of room...

Approx every 7 games he's had a new system to work under, and he's only 22. ....And people wonder why he seems to hesitate shows some uncertainty out there. Just posted this in another thread, but I think it's important;

 

Straight up, there are very few players in the NFL that can do that. I also like what he hasn't done. Fumble the ball. 

That's 5, almost 6.......broken tackles in a matter of 5 seconds. 

[ponyboy]

Other examples are Priest Holmes, Jamal Lewis, and Ahmad Bradshaw...Usually the power guys for some reason take a little longer to reach potential..

 

I don't see where these three struggled in the early years.

 

First three years:

Holmes:      459/2101  4.6 ypc

Lewis:       1004/4757  4.7 ypc

Bradshaw   253/1323  5.2 ypc

 

First two years:

Holmes:     322/1514  4.7 ypc

Lewis:        517/2691  4.4 ypc

Bradshaw:  90/545     6.0 ypc

[House]

Approx every 7 games he's had a new system to work under, and he's only 22. ....And people wonder why he seems to hesitate shows some uncertainty out there. Just posted this in another thread, but I think it's important;

Straight up, there are very few players in the NFL that can do that. I also like what he hasn't done. Fumble the ball.

That's 5, almost 6.......broken tackles in a matter of 5 seconds.

I honestly thought that was going to be the spark to get us over in that game.

[Gavin]

I honestly thought that was going to be the spark to get us over in that game.

And 3 plays later PUNT

[ColtJ82]

I cant figure that either Rob....

It does seem that the T Rich runs are obvious...where A. Bradshaw's calls were more deceptive.

But Bradshaw is (or was) quicker and shiftier..

I;m worried that...like Brown...Richardson is what he is..not what he was in college

We were running much better with Satele out IMO. This was when Bradshaw was hitting.

[jshipp23]

I don't see where these three struggled in the early years.

 

First three years:

Holmes:      459/2101  4.6 ypc

Lewis:       1004/4757  4.7 ypc

Bradshaw   253/1323  5.2 ypc

 

First two years:

Holmes:     322/1514  4.7 ypc

Lewis:        517/2691  4.4 ypc

Bradshaw:  90/545     6.0 ypc

Was wrong on Lewis, but I'm talking pro bowl 1200-1500 type yard seasons...Holmes and Bradshaw weren't feature backs till later on and Bradshaw always had another back out of necessity cause of injuries.....I was wrong about Jamal Lewis though I didn't think he started that fast out of the gate...Richardson YPC could easily be 4.5 or better if used better and run out of single back formations..

[tenbears1971]

We have zilch for talent in the interior OLine. He's shown enough with ANY space in the last two games that he's going to be a very good back for us. Move along.

[fvantagio]

Because D's keep stacking the box against T-Rich. Mostly because of the FB we use. When we go 3 WR set and hand off to Richardson, he usually does pretty well. 

 

I don't understand how our coaching staff doesn't seen to understand this. 

 

For the record the most successful formation monday night was when they went 3 wide with a fb.. by far actually, especially when you consider DHBs drop, Reggies 3rd down drop, Fleeners 3rd down catch 2 yds short of a first, (rookie mistake). All came from that formation and those are just off the top of my head..they left a lot of points on the field to say the least. We can blame the coaches all we want but at the end of the day the players gotta execute the playbook. They didnt.

[BpG]

He is a great talent and you can see the flashes when he is given half a chance....If he gets 25 carries a game out of single back sets and we use the stretch play like we used to 100 yard games will be the norm..

 

 

100 yards games will be the norm, eh?

 

Cannot possibly understand what you're seeing that the rest of the NFL isn't. Maybe you're just that smart?

 

I’ll risk alienating myself from my fellow Colts fans by saying I appreciate your perspective on this and I think you were making valid points.  After watching many of the Brown games on NFL Game Rewind  (condensed games) I completely understand your point of view.

 

I think the trade was a roll-of-the-dice and was worth the gamble for the Colts.  At the time of the trade the Colts were a major injury (Luck) away from possibly trading away a top 10 pick – that makes it a gamble.  But, if the pick is in the 20s as we all hope (or #32 for that matter), then I think it’s probably a good value for both teams.  A win-win situation.

 

There are flashes of talent there, but not realized at this point in his NFL career.  I agree the elite/stud/star/top-5/beast talk is way overstated and that’s one of the points you were making.

 

I’m glad that Trent is a Colt.  He’s young, appears durable, is a good $$ value for the next 3 years, protects the ball pretty well, and is elusive the in the open field.  I’m hopeful the production will improve but I don’t have expectations that it will be elite.

 

Appreciate it. I knew I would get attacked, having been a long time board member over at my place. I just started getting frustrated when logic gives way to attacks. 

 

I would warn you against using durable for Richardson. His running style is not conducive to longevity. He gives and receives punishment on basically every carry. He's had two knee surgeries since coming into the league, he's had a shoulder issue and broken ribs. Tough? Absolutely, durable, eehh not so much. 

[chrisfarley]

Fumble  

[husker61]

excuses, excuses, excuses, just admit it, he wasn't worth a first round pick.

[Blueblazes]

I don't see where these three struggled in the early years.

 

First three years:

Holmes:      459/2101  4.6 ypc

Lewis:       1004/4757  4.7 ypc

Bradshaw   253/1323  5.2 ypc

 

First two years:

Holmes:     322/1514  4.7 ypc

Lewis:        517/2691  4.4 ypc

Bradshaw:  90/545     6.0 ypc

Good stuff and good facts. I want TRich to do well extremely badly. I also think draft choices are overrated as evidenced by about a 40% success rate (if more than mediocre is the goal for a first round pick). But I have to say that TRich is doing the same thing in Indy that he did in Cleveland, so it's not his fault at all. He never showed more than 3.6 ypc with the Browns with their team average at 4.0. Same in Indy (actually worse), averaging 3.0 vs. the other top 3 RBs at 5.1 ypc. There are the mitigating factors of TRich getting the tough yards, or Pep not using him right or many other factors,  but at some point, he's has to get more 'tough yards' than 3.0 ypc.  

[21isSuperman]

This guy is 23 years old. He has a lot of football left in him. His play maybe hasn't blown us all away yet, but there are flashes. Give him a better inside 3 on the OL and some more experience and I think he will reach his potential