PFF: "Richardson Working Hard for Minimal Gains"

[Flash7]

Let's take this approach:

 

Everyone that has an opinion on Richardson should start out with a clean slate. If at the end of the year, he has a 3.6 YPC, then the Cleveland fans that warned us are right. If he has a YPC over 4.0, then the Colts can claim it was a good move to give up a 1st round draft pick for Richardson. But there is no in between afterwards. If his YPC is 3.6 here in Indy, then there cannot be any more excuses of any kind.

[Le Neon]

, he has had an 144 yard game and an 88 yard game this year on a 0-5 football team. He has 1,400 yards rushing last year. 

 

He's proven his worth. Richardson doesn't have 80 yards rushing this year. 

 

I thought we were laughing at 144 yard performances?  Richardson had a similar start last year on a pretty wretched team.

[husker61]

All they did was what you asked. You said name ONE time he was a stud. And that's what they did. I really hope you're not developing memory loss

 

do you call those stud stats? to me, they would be stud stats if they were the average for the year.

[House]

Here is the point I'm trying to make. Elite backs, always produce, even on bad teams. Especially with 270 carries in 15 games. The Bucs were a bad football team and Doug Martin put up a great season. The Jags have been bad for a decade and MJD has always produced until he finally got hurt seriously. Peterson has been on bad teams his entire career minus the Favre years.

Elite backs produce. All I'm trying to say is that he is not, nor will he ever be elite. Perhaps that's premature, but the history on good backs is they produce almost always right away.

I've understood your point. You don't think nor will you ever think he is/can be elite. That's what I've been saying you think for about 4 posts now lol.

But that's all coming from a mind that's made up, and the arguments that follow spawn from that initial idea.

My whole point was that you have already reached your conclusion, while many of us are still open to the idea of waiting to see what happens. That's the differences in ideology right now.

[BpG]

I thought we were laughing at 144 yard performances?  Richardson had a similar start last year on a pretty wretched team.

 

144 yards rushing. As in on the ground. No receiving yards. Richardsons 145 yard game had like 40 receiving yards. Richardson has never put up rushing performances like Martin has. 

 

I've understood your point. You don't think nor will you ever think he is/can be elite. That's what I've been saying you think for about 4 posts now lol.

But that's all coming from a mind that's made up, and the arguments that follow spawn from that initial idea.

My whole point was that you have already reached your conclusion, while many of us are still open to the idea of waiting to see what happens. That's the differences in ideology right now.

 

 

I would disagree. I am open to the idea that he may improve, lord knows it's hard to imagine he can gain experience and still be this bad. I've just seen no evidence that it's even starting to happen. 

[OrlandoDawg]

Let's take this approach:

 

Everyone that has an opinion on Richardson should start out with a clean slate. If at the end of the year, he has a 3.6 YPC, then the Cleveland fans that warned us are right. If he has a YPC over 4.0, then the Colts can claim it was a good move to give up a 1st round draft pick for Richardson. But there is no in between afterwards. If his YPC is 3.6 here in Indy, then there cannot be any more excuses of any kind.

I like the kid and wish the best for him, in fact when the trade first went down there were quite a few on the Browns boards saying Indy was the perfect situation for Trent to go to and said he would start dominating right away.  First game its understandable he had only I think 2 days on the team.  I hope for your guys sake he pans out.

 

Everyone that claims part of Richardson's problem was the Browns team because its easy to say we suck, but how do you explain just about identical stats on the same Cleveland team from a 32 year old McGahee? 

 

I'm sure this topic will probably still be alive all the way through the 2014 draft...but we shall see.

[House]

144 yards rushing. As in on the ground. No receiving yards. Richardsons 145 yard game had like 40 receiving yards. Richardson has never put up rushing performances like Martin has.

I would disagree. I am open to the idea that he may improve, lord knows it's hard to imagine he can gain experience and still be this bad. I've just seen no evidence that it's even starting to happen.

Your open to the idea, but if he plays better you wouldn't have a choice anyways lol. The choice would be made for you. Though you did say;

"All I'm trying to say is that he is not, nor will he ever be elite."

Not that he would/will ever do it, but it would be hard to call a 2000yrd rusher overrated. That's decision gets made on the field .

Unless it's CJ2K. Don't like that guy...

[Flash7]

I like the kid and wish the best for him, in fact when the trade first went down there were quite a few on the Browns boards saying Indy was the perfect situation for Trent to go to and said he would start dominating right away.  First game its understandable he had only I think 2 days on the team.  I hope for your guys sake he pans out.

 

Everyone that claims part of Richardson's problem was the Browns team because its easy to say we suck, but how do you explain just about identical stats on the same Cleveland team from a 32 year old McGahee? 

 

I'm sure this topic will probably still be alive all the way through the 2014 draft...but we shall see.

It would worry me if a 32 year old Mcgahee had better stats. Since the stats are identical, you could make an argument that they are both able to take what the offense is giving, in terms of holes generated to run through, or the lack of?

[OffensivelyPC]

Browns fan here, just to get that out of the way. ;)

 

I think what you have to realize is that Richardson was taken 2 spots away from Luck, and I think we can agree that the QB position should take longer to develop as the position involves way more than the RB position, so we shouldn't 'expect' a long development from a player taken that high in the draft.

 

So you claim it was because teams were stacking the box because we had/have a terrible QB but how do you explain Richardson's lack of production from the RB posiition in Indy?  Its not because Luck is a terrible QB who can't get the ball to WRs and the whole stacking the box thing is kind of a myth in relation to Trent.

 

I'm not trying to argue at all, just found it curious when I ventured over here to see what the thoughts were on Trent and I see almost the same identical posts about Trent as we saw on the Browns boards.  A mix of some people making the same excuses while others see him as an average RB.

I've said it a lot of times.  But basically, the argument is that you just dont' switch teams and plug and play.  It doesn't work like that.  It's the same reason why tehre are so many free agent busts.  Success (or lack thereof) on one team doesn't mean success (or lack thereof) on another.  Maybe Trent doesn't work out, and I'm good with that.  But if it's difficult for a player to switch teams and perform at the same level in their first year there, it's all the more difficult to do it in the middle of hte season when they haven't had OTAs and training camp. 

 

So, while he wasn't exactly stellar at Cleveland, part of that can be explained by the talent around him, but he was still just a rookie with a rookie QB.  It's a rare circumstance where a player at ANY position other than K/P comes in and performs at veteran level.  His second year after being traded, now he has to start over. 

 

I'm not pretending that I know Trent will be a top 10 RB.  I see some improvement every week, but he's still a long ways from being the back we had hoped for.  Maybe he gets there, maybe he doesn't.  But what I do know, is that any judgment on it, 4 weeks in is too soon.  Whether its me arguing in favor of the trade or someoen else arguing against it.  As was said above, in 2 years, if he's still playing like he just got here, come back, and I'll eat the crow.  Chances are, I'll be more upset at the Colts and Grigson than I would eating the crow, lol.

[OrlandoDawg]

Without looking at the stats...just looking at the player on the field McGahee even at 32 hits the hole harder and actually hits the hole when its there.  Heck even looking at last year, Hardesty looked more explosive and decisive hitting the holes than Richardson.  The strange thing is that Richardson has all the physical tools, but he just seems to lack that instince of hitting the hole.  He gets into the 2nd level, he is a beast to deal with for sure, the problem is he just doesn't get to that level on a consistent enough level.  Plenty of tape from last year of holes he missed, it was very frustrating to watch.

[The Fish]

I'm pretty sure that T-Rich being the Super Star he was perceived to be isn't as important as the fact that our O has a healthy RB, that can do some good things. I'm pretty meh about it, but it wasn't a terrible move either.

[OrlandoDawg]

I've said it a lot of times.  But basically, the argument is that you just dont' switch teams and plug and play.  It doesn't work like that.  It's the same reason why tehre are so many free agent busts.  Success (or lack thereof) on one team doesn't mean success (or lack thereof) on another.  Maybe Trent doesn't work out, and I'm good with that.  But if it's difficult for a player to switch teams and perform at the same level in their first year there, it's all the more difficult to do it in the middle of hte season when they haven't had OTAs and training camp. 

 

So, while he wasn't exactly stellar at Cleveland, part of that can be explained by the talent around him, but he was still just a rookie with a rookie QB.  It's a rare circumstance where a player at ANY position other than K/P comes in and performs at veteran level.  His second year after being traded, now he has to start over. 

 

I'm not pretending that I know Trent will be a top 10 RB.  I see some improvement every week, but he's still a long ways from being the back we had hoped for.  Maybe he gets there, maybe he doesn't.  But what I do know, is that any judgment on it, 4 weeks in is too soon.  Whether its me arguing in favor of the trade or someoen else arguing against it.  As was said above, in 2 years, if he's still playing like he just got here, come back, and I'll eat the crow.  Chances are, I'll be more upset at the Colts and Grigson than I would eating the crow, lol.

Completely understood...but again blaming the team around him for his lack of performance, how do you then explain McGahee's relative stats being the same as Richardson's in Cleveland and McGahee also just walked onto the Browns team.  Maybe Richardson pans out eventually, but all that does is prove that he should not have been taken #3 in the draft...at that position he should be a difference maker from the start at RB, IMO.

[husker61]

I thought we were laughing at 144 yard performances?  Richardson had a similar start last year on a pretty wretched team.

 

apples to oranges. richardsons 144 was rushing (109) and receiving, martin's 144 was just rushing. last year martin had 1,454 yards to richardsons 950. lets be fare and not spin things or make things up.

[OffensivelyPC]

Without looking at the stats...just looking at the player on the field McGahee even at 32 hits the hole harder and actually hits the hole when its there. Heck even looking at last year, Hardesty looked more explosive and decisive hitting the holes than Richardson. The strange thing is that Richardson has all the physical tools, but he just seems to lack that instince of hitting the hole. He gets into the 2nd level, he is a beast to deal with for sure, the problem is he just doesn't get to that level on a consistent enough level. Plenty of tape from last year of holes he missed, it was very frustrating to watch.

I'd argue the opposite re mcgahee. Not similar. But worse. 2.8 ypc. And this is where I'll leave it. We shall see over the next year or two.

[OffensivelyPC]

I'd argue the opposite re mcgahee. Not similar. But worse. 2.8 ypc. And this is where I'll leave it. We shall see over the next year or two.

not to mentio mcgahee never ran under 3.8 ypc in his career

[TKnight24]

do you call those stud stats? to me, they would be stud stats if they were the average for the year.

Last year:

Week 2 @Cincinnati 109yards and 2 touchdowns

Week 8 vs San Diego 122 yards & 1 touchdown

Big games if you ask me. Not many RB's get to 100 yards each game. It's harder than people make it seem

[Happy2BeHere]

I can't figure it out either....but one thing you can CLEARLY tell between BROWN and RICHARDSON is the difference in how quick they run off the play. With Richardson he is not fast at the start of the play and he seems to have a lesser ball carrier vision (madden terms I suppose) compared to BROWN....when Brown is handed the ball he runs like a monkey freed from his cage...with Richardson when the monkey decides to run it's almost too late because the zoo keeper has figured out the gate is open.

 

Hows THAT for an analogy?

[OrlandoDawg]

I can't figure it out either....but one thing you can CLEARLY tell between BROWN and RICHARDSON is the difference in how quick they run off the play. With Richardson he is not fast at the start of the play and he seems to have a lesser ball carrier vision (madden terms I suppose) compared to BROWN....when Brown is handed the ball he runs like a monkey freed from his cage...with Richardson when the monkey decides to run it's almost too late because the zoo keeper has figured out the gate is open.

 

Hows THAT for an analogy?

lol

 

oddly enough that kind of fits how I saw the difference between Richardson and Hardesty (or even Ogbonnaya) in Cleveland last year, though a lot of us Browns fans put it off to the cracked ribs at that time.

[In Luck We Trust]

Not a run, but I though this was an awesome play.

 

He is trying his hardest to prove he was worth the first round pick we gave up for him. he showed good things last night, granted the running game in general with all of our RB's was not that good. 

[Le Neon]

144 yards rushing. As in on the ground. No receiving yards. Richardsons 145 yard game had like 40 receiving yards. Richardson has never put up rushing performances like Martin has. 

 

 

 

I would disagree. I am open to the idea that he may improve, lord knows it's hard to imagine he can gain experience and still be this bad. I've just seen no evidence that it's even starting to happen. 

 

And Martin had 0 catches for 0 yards in that same performance and 0 touchdowns rushing or receiving.  Yards count, it doesn't matter what phase of the game we're talking about.  We didn't trade for a rusher, we got a complete running back.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

I thought he was tough as nails last night, but I knew people on here would try and blame him for dropping the pass....It's so predictable, he is a stud when he has a chance...

i agree he was studly and i was actually impressed (NOT by his blocking though), but who do you blame for that drop? 

[LockeDown]

I expect us to play better next week.

[jshipp23]

i agree he was studly and i was actually impressed (NOT by his blocking though), but who do you blame for that drop? 

He dropped it so it's his fault..I think the drops had a lot to do with nerves and being on the sidelines all game...A lot of young guys not used to the national stage..Reminded me of all the drops in the playoff game last year, and lately it seems like Reggie drops a couple every game , but never gets criticized..

[NewEra]

I don't care what anyone says nor do I care about his ypc. I like Trent and love the trade. We picked him up for a low 1st and he is doing exactly what he's been asked. We can't judge his ypc with the way Pep is calling the game, sorry.

[jshipp23]

I don't care what anyone says nor do I care about his ypc. I like Trent and love the trade. We picked him up for a low 1st and he is doing exactly what he's been asked. We can't judge his ypc with the way Pep is calling the game, sorry.

He is a great talent and you can see the flashes when he is given half a chance....If he gets 25 carries a game out of single back sets and we use the stretch play like we used to 100 yard games will be the norm..

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

He dropped it so it's his fault..I think the drops had a lot to do with nerves and being on the sidelines all game...A lot of young guys not used to the national stage..Reminded me of all the drops in the playoff game last year, and lately it seems like Reggie drops a couple every game , but never gets criticized..

we have to hold everyone accountable including Trent, and old mr. Reliable Reggie.

[NewEra]

He is a great talent and you can see the flashes when he is given half a chance....If he gets 25 carries a game out of single back sets and we use the stretch play like we used to 100 yard games will be the norm..

.

Dude is a load. He struggling to bust out yards in the jumbo formation sure. But is that his fault? If you watch he's usually getting hit in the backfield.

[Franklin County]

Because D's keep stacking the box against T-Rich. Mostly because of the FB we use. When we go 3 WR set and hand off to Richardson, he usually does pretty well. 

 

I don't understand how our coaching staff doesn't seen to understand this. 

You cant be talking logically on here.

[jshipp23]

You cant be talking logically on here.

How in the heck is that not logical?? What is logical running against 9 man boxes with a weak line and basically giving away downs cause we want to run a goal line set on our own 20 yard line?? It is the dumbest thing I have ever seen and they just continue to do it and Luck saves us in the end, but couldn't against the chargers and dolphins we waited too late to adjust and go 3 wide...

[NewEra]

How in the heck is that not logical?? What is logical running against 9 man boxes with a weak line and basically giving away downs cause we want to run a goal line set on our own 20 yard line?? It is the dumbest thing I have ever seen and they just continue to do it and Luck saves us in the end, but couldn't against the chargers and dolphins we waited too late to adjust and go 3 wide...

He was being sarcastic bro

[jshipp23]

He was being sarcastic bro

Yeah, I realized after the fact....been defending my point all day so it was just instinctual...

[Franklin County]

He was being sarcastic bro

Ty

[Franklin County]

Yeah, I realized after the fact....been defending my point all day so it was just instinctual...

 lol No really I GET it.

[husker61]

He dropped it so it's his fault..I think the drops had a lot to do with nerves and being on the sidelines all game...A lot of young guys not used to the national stage..Reminded me of all the drops in the playoff game last year, and lately it seems like Reggie drops a couple every game , but never gets criticized..

 

really? he played in national championship games at alabama. wayne is frustrating, he makes great catches and then drops easy ones.

[jshipp23]

They were so much better than everyone else it was easy, but he is pre

 

really? he played in national championship games at alabama. wayne is frustrating, he makes great catches and then drops easy ones.

He is pressing and a lot of our guys were playing their 1st Monday night game so I'm sure it had something to do with it...Hopefully they get it out of their system before playoff time..Luck was cool and collected though which is a great sign, none of that fiasco was his fault...

[RomanianColtsFan]

I think Richardson dances too much for my liking and that is frustrating. I was at the game last night and I reinforced my impression after watching him live. There were plays where he could get more yards if he didn't hesitate so much. That being said, I can't get mad at him because he always puts so much effort. It's not like he goes down at first contact, on the contrary, or stops pushing the defender.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

They were so much better than everyone else it was easy, but he is pre

 

He is pressing and a lot of our guys were playing their 1st Monday night game so I'm sure it had something to do with it...Hopefully they get it out of their system before playoff time..Luck was cool and collected though which is a great sign, none of that fiasco was his fault...

He gotta go tell Pep whats up... "yo coach, stop running goaline on our 15 yard line when they have 9 in the box". "let me show off why im the #1 pick and not Alex Smith 2.0"

[MTC]

I've been saying this since he's been here. His yards per carry won't improve until we have upgrades at guard and center. Won't happen this year.

[ponyboy]

I came originally to just give some perspective from experience. I stopped by to see what people were saying and when I see things like I saw, I felt I should try and give some more perspective. You would have been much better served trying to go after a guy like Ben Tate. 

 

Yeah, I'm annoyed. I get annoyed when people start twisting what I'm trying to get across as a blind agenda. 

 

I’ll risk alienating myself from my fellow Colts fans by saying I appreciate your perspective on this and I think you were making valid points.  After watching many of the Brown games on NFL Game Rewind  (condensed games) I completely understand your point of view.

 

I think the trade was a roll-of-the-dice and was worth the gamble for the Colts.  At the time of the trade the Colts were a major injury (Luck) away from possibly trading away a top 10 pick – that makes it a gamble.  But, if the pick is in the 20s as we all hope (or #32 for that matter), then I think it’s probably a good value for both teams.  A win-win situation.

 

There are flashes of talent there, but not realized at this point in his NFL career.  I agree the elite/stud/star/top-5/beast talk is way overstated and that’s one of the points you were making.

 

I’m glad that Trent is a Colt.  He’s young, appears durable, is a good $$ value for the next 3 years, protects the ball pretty well, and is elusive the in the open field.  I’m hopeful the production will improve but I don’t have expectations that it will be elite.

[krunk]

I thought T Rich ran with heart last night.  Just didn't get enough opportunities.