Do you think Luck could run the read option?

[Superman]

Aside from explaining football to me, I think you missed my point. Most likely my fault for not being clear as to why this read option may not see heavy use after time. 

 

You're essentially turning the franchise QB into a running back. The RB position has the shortest shelf-life of any position in football. 

 

To the bolded, no, you're not. Like I said about Kaepernick, he ran the ball once off of read option. He ran the ball six times off of scrambles. The major -- and I think, longer lasting -- advantage to read option is getting a leg up for the actual running back. The QB keeper is just a threat after a while.

 

I'm not trying to explain football. I'm just saying why I don't think read option has to be a short lived gimmick, and why mentioning it in the same sentence as wildcat doesn't make sense to me.

[coltsfanatic24]

Luck can run any offense there's a reason he's the best prospect since John Elway. I think Luck will run it a couple times but he'll still be in  a traditional offense.

[BrentMc11]

My point is just that the pistol formation (it's not an offense or a play, just a formation) has its advantages as well, even for a team that has no intention of calling any form of QB keeper.

And that does apply to number 18 (Quarterback keeper for the most part....'maybe once in a Blue Moon.'

 

Both have there advantages for sure, and being of sound (questionable   ) defensive mind.....I want to stop it!!  It simply has not happened to this point!

[Gavin]

The carry at 9:23 in the second quarter is more of a traditional option play, but it's a good example of what I'm talking about. It's 2nd and 8, and they get 9 yards. That's a great play for the offense. And the way Moala and Mathis sold out on the running back while Pryor ran right past them is an example of terrible play against any kind of QB option play.

 

The one at 7:24 is read option, and Werner crashes down too hard on the ball carrier (just a handful of plays after Moala and Mathis did it earlier), giving Pryor daylight on the backside.

 

So if you're saying that we didn't get absolutely gashed by read option, then okay. But we didn't defend it well at all. We defended it pretty poorly.

well at least we know what we need to do to defend it, Now I think its a matter of repetition and discipline, I guess I just got more frustrated with our lack of discpline when Pryor turned the game into backyard football

[John Waylon]

My 4 year old son could run the read option.

The read option is the new wildcat. All the rage now, forgotten in two years.

[Ja'Crispy]

He probably could, but he shouldn't. I prefer he stay in the pocket and only run occasionally. Keep it the way it is because defenses seem to forget he can run and that comes back to bite them.

[ruksak]

 

 

I'm not trying to explain football. I'm just saying why I don't think read option has to be a short lived gimmick, and why mentioning it in the same sentence as wildcat doesn't make sense to me.

They both have the same desired effect on opposing defenses. Confusion. Both want to force a misread. The advantage the read option has is that, unlike the wildcat, you never know when it's coming. 

 

On those grounds alone, the Option takes credence as a viable, potentially long term scheme. As I eluded to earlier, the reasons why the Option is a dubious choice for teams sporting an elite caliber franchise QB;

 

To the bolded, no, you're not. Like I said about Kaepernick, he ran the ball once off of read option. He ran the ball six times off of scrambles. The major -- and I think, longer lasting -- advantage to read option is getting a leg up for the actual running back. The QB keeper is just a threat after a while.

 

The "options" for the Read Option;

1~ Hand the ball off to the RB

2~ Fake the hand-off and keep, the QB runs the ball, essentially entering him as a RB.

3~ Read the passing/receiving options. Which actually can operate as option 4, 5 and 6 etc 

 

To point 1;

Even though the QB fakes the hand-off, he motions as if he kept it. Stealth is key here and, as we know, stealth can cause confusion. Not always a good thing, because this invites undue contact upon the QB. Defenders may choose to strike the QB thinking he may be dropping back to pass or rolling out to run when he doesn't even have the ball.

 

To point 2;

Again, you're inviting brutal punishment upon your franchise QB. As he is now effectively operating as a RB. All it takes is one time, just once we see a Kaepernick or Griffin suffer a season ending injury while trotting out off of the option and just watch the option-poo hit the proverbial fan.

 

Toward point 3;

I've noticed this more-so with the lesser skilled passers who run the Option (Pryor etc). They are so consumed with reading the run or keep options, they fail to read the receiving options thoroughly. As we saw with Pryor many times Sunday. It was fake hand-off, read 1 beat and gone. He would barely take the time to read even 1 receiving option, often missing viable passing routes.

 

And it's point 3 that gives me the greatest pause when considering such a passing talent as Luck running a scheme that betrays his greatest skill. That being, reading through his progressions and passing. 

 

Summary; 

The Option not only places undue risk upon your QB toward injury concerns, but, it also causes undue harm to the natural QB progression reads on his receivers. 

[Superman]

They both have the same desired effect on opposing defenses. Confusion. Both want to force a misread. The advantage the read option has is that, unlike the wildcat, you never know when it's coming. 

 

 

That's what I disagree with. It's not about forcing a misread or confusing the defense. Sure, if you do that, you have the potential for a big play. But with disciplined reaction from the defense, that's not the case.

 

But the advantage is still there. From what I understand, the best way to defend the read option is to have the "read" defender give a slow play on the backside (what would be the keeper side, most often). The "read" defender is the one guy in the defensive front the offense chooses to leave unblocked. If that defender plays it perfectly, the QB is going to hand the ball off. But you've taken an offensive lineman from the backside to the playside, where there's one less defender, and now you have a numbers advantage for the running back. It's essentially the same as having a pulling guard, but not having an extra defender chasing from the backside or down the line. 

 

The Eagles did this to the Redskins over and over and over on Monday night. Vick only kept it on read option a handful of times. Meanwhile, LeSean McCoy had extra room to run. There are lots of other factors in play there, and a lot of those things will be countered by NFL defenses, but the principle behind the read option is primarily to give your running back an advantage on the playside, not to get a big play with the QB on the backside.

 

That's why I compare it to play action, which isn't used so much because you're trying to get a big play, but more because you want to loosen the defense up. The big play over the top is only there when the defense messes up.

 

 

Toward point 3;

I've noticed this more-so with the lesser skilled passers who run the Option (Pryor etc). They are so consumed with reading the run or keep options, they fail to read the receiving options thoroughly. As we saw with Pryor many times Sunday. It was fake hand-off, read 1 beat and gone. He would barely take the time to read even 1 receiving option, often missing viable passing routes.

 

And it's point 3 that gives me the greatest pause when considering such a passing talent as Luck running a scheme that betrays his greatest skill. That being, reading through his progressions and passing. 

 

These are all good points. I think there's a big difference between someone like Luck going through progressions on a read option fake,  and Terrelle Pryor (or even Robert Griffin or Michael Vick, players who have never excelled in progression based passing systems).

 

Also, some people assume that every play action from shotgun or pistol is a read option play, and that's not the case. The unblocked "read" defender is key. So some of Pryor's one read decision making had nothing to do with read option. I believe we pressured him a fair amount, and I also believe their gameplan was centered around freeing him up to take off quickly. Not saying that you are confused about this, just mentioning it.

 

I don't think read option needs to be a part of our playbook. I think there are some nifty things we could do with it, just to give defenses pause, but Luck in a traditional, pro style offense is dangerous enough.

[BrentMc11]

 

 

Also, some people assume that every play action from shotgun or pistol is a read option play, and that's not the case.

Another great post.  I think the bolded is the best point of them all.

 

I do not know how many games already I have watched where the announcers just don't get it.  It is not just the casual 'forum' fan!!!!  The college announcers are clueless....at least we do have some former NFL QBs that can READ the READ and SHOOT us a good portrayal of the Pistol!!!

[Warhorse]

Braveshaft the goat? 

 

Not the most catchy nickname I've heard. 

Beer..........straight out the nose........moment.

 

 

"I am Bravehsaft. And I see a whole army of my fellow players, here in defiance of the opposition. You've come to fight as NFL players... and NFL players you are! What will you do with that freedom? Will you fight?"

[BOTT]

Good Post.

 

Although I have stated I really dislike the Read Option/Pistol offenses, they at THIS time DO have an advantage.

 

Looking around the league, it appears that defenses are VERY slow to adapt to these offenses.  I know Wilson and RG3 struggled first week, but Kaep ran it beautifully; almost to perfection.

 

That said, I too think the 'Wildcat" was a joke.....even though some had success. 

If I remember correctly, the Niners hardly ran the option....and when they did Mathews blew it up.

[GoColts8818]

Could he? Yes. Will he? No.

[ColtsHoosiersBB]

We need him and the rest of the offense to learn the "No Huddle" offense and that is all we need. He runs enough and I'm afraid he would get hurt with even more running yards.

[stat2883]

The Eagles did this to the Redskins over and over and over on Monday night. Vick only kept it on read option a handful of times. Meanwhile, LeSean McCoy had extra room to run. There are lots of other factors in play there, and a lot of those things will be countered by NFL defenses, but the principle behind the read option is primarily to give your running back an advantage on the playside, not to get a big play with the QB on the backside.

 

That's why I compare it to play action, which isn't used so much because you're trying to get a big play, but more because you want to loosen the defense up. The big play over the top is only there when the defense messes up.

The Eagles game is a good example of the merits of the RO and how one of the options doesn't even have to be a QB run. This gets into the whole package plays concept that Gruden broke down during the game. And in the case of the eagles game, the read defender much of the first half was London Fletcher who wasn't even rushing in. It then becomes an option between McCoy and Celek for example leaking in behind Fletcher. Vick keeping the ball wasn't even an option on many plays. Everything we're seeing now is all stuff I tried to explain last year but it keeps falling on deaf ears...no matter how I draw it up or break it down.

I completely agree with everything you're saying Sup.

and yeah...Luck would have no problems running those plays.

[jamesie jr]

Yes without a doubt he could. He is one of the faster Qb's in the league.

 

HOWEVER he should not run the read option. Even when he is trying to stay in the pocket he gets beat up quite a lot and that is with the blocking of 5/6 of the best blockers in the nation (well they have to be good to actually get in the league). So asking the centerpiece of the franchise to run into the open field where people can take shots at you isn't the smartest idea in my books.

 

If he did run it though he would be lethal! He is great at play action passes so the same skills will apply to the read option.

 

Plus from last week he seems to have learnt how to slide properly, wonder if Hassellbeck has been mentoring him?

[braveheartcolt]

Of course he could run the 'read option'....he could build hospitals and save the city while he's at it.

[stat2883]

So asking the centerpiece of the franchise to run into the open field where people can take shots at you isn't the smartest idea in my books.

This is no different than a rollout off of play action and you just happen to get a back side blitzer. When a QB is getting pounded in the pocket, the first thing people cry for is to get him on the move with misdirection, moving pockets, and boot legs or rollouts - things that slow the pass rush. The RO accomplishes this as well. Just because it has the word "option" does not mean the QB has to run with it, or even cross the line of scrimmage.

[jamesie jr]

This is no different than a rollout off of play action and you just happen to get a back side blitzer. When a QB is getting pounded in the pocket, the first thing people cry for is to get him on the move with misdirection, moving pockets, and boot legs or rollouts - things that slow the pass rush. The RO accomplishes this as well. Just because it has the word "option" does not mean the QB has to run with it, or even cross the line of scrimmage.

Very true. I personally love it when he rolls out, think he's very good when he throws on the run. And i know it doesn't necessarily mean he's going to get hurt but I'd just prefer him in the pocket because his awareness from there is amazing. Think in a year or 2 he will be a hybrid of Roethlisberger, Peyton and Vick. 

 

At the end of the day there is pro's and cons for luck to do the read option so it's up to Pagano/Hamilton to decide whether the pro's outweight the cons or whether it is too risky to do.

[Hoosierdome93]

Yes, but why?

He runs when he needs to.

Look at how the R/O shortens the years a QB plays in the NFL.

Who really thinks Kap, Wilson, RG3 or any R/O QB is going to be running around like they do when they are 30+

They keep installing (kid glove) new rules to protect the QB because of the read option, but they still end up getting hurt. Tuck it and run and your fair game.

No....The read option is exciting for fans at times, but I would rather have Luck a well tuned, healthy commander of the COLT offense well into late 30s.

[Dustin]

Yes, but why?

He runs when he needs to.

Look at how the R/O shortens the years a QB plays in the NFL.

 

 

Who? RG3 is the only one who's had a significant injury and that wasn't on a designed run. 

[jvan1973]

Of course he could run the 'read option'....he could build hospitals and save the city while he's at it.

he does have an engineering degree

[BrentMc11]

If I remember correctly, the Niners hardly ran the option....and when they did Mathews blew it up.

You could be right....i was not at my customary 'edge of seat' in that game....was working around the house and coming back.  I do know Mathews played his tail off....

[Hoosierdome93]

Who? RG3 is the only one who's had a significant injury and that wasn't on a designed run. 

Cunningham, Vick, RG3 missing games due to injuries. Cam, Russell and other RO QBs are either rookies or 2nd and 3rd year players. It fairly new to the NFL. You'll see.. and so will owners who are going to be watching their 100 million dollar investments on IR