UPDATE: Aaron Hernandez All discussion about past and present merge)

[Yehoodi]

I am simply saying that his actions by destroying evidence, was the beginning of harm to the reputation of the Pats. That was enough to be released were I in that situation. I am not jumping on the haterade bandwagon, I just think that if you wait after knowing he was covering his tracks, then wait until he is convicted.

 

yes but it is a fluid situation . . .  we did not know initially what might of been on the phone or tapes . . . maybe there were things that might of been incriminating on the tapes not involved with the instant case . . . footage of him doing drugs or a drug sale in or around is house . . . destruction of which would not obstruction of justice . . . the police would have to place the criminals or at the scene of the crime at his house for the tapes to be meaningful . . . and that, if at all, may not have come out till later when they searched the house over the weekend . . .

 

my guess is that someone high up in the pats organization with a secured connection with someone in power has a better picture of the evidence and then the pats made its decision . . .

[Superman]

worst case scenario cap wise is that they have to eat his $2.5 million cap hit this year, but they certainly won't be eating any more than that. I bet they'll even be able to get the $2.5 million back, but it will take awhile and it will probably just be added into their cap next year.

 

That's the likely outcome.

 

But in the unlikely event that Hernandez is totally cleared of all wrongdoing, I don't think the Patriots would have any recourse. No cap credit in the future, and they'd have to eat the remaining prorated bonus of $7.5m in 2014.

[schwamm]

More like they want to cut ties with the massive distraction. Hernandez is no saint either, he has had repeated cases of gun related violence or crimes, dating all the way back to his college days. Some teams didn't even have him on their draft boards at all and he fell in the draft because of his character issues.

The Patriots also probably had some inside info, as they were commenting on NFL Network today that just about every single NFL team has former FBI agents and detectives working the security of their stadiums and they get information through the grape vine.

Nice to see a Colts fan trying to spin this into a negative Patriots topic though, per usual. They just got rid of a hoodlum that has had problems his entire life and is creating a mass media distraction that is going to be NATIONAL news, covered not just by ESPN and NFL Network, but by CNN, Fox News, MSNBC etc. Kraft didn't want his name or the Patriots name constantly being used in the same sentences as things like a murder investigation.

Maybe your holier than thou Colts will sign him right up.. He is in fact on waivers, so the Colts can go pick him up if they believe so much in "innocent until proven guilty." You want to bet $500 that the Colts don't even touch him with a 50 foot pole?

Go drink some more haterade.

you started off so well.  I can totally agree with your first 2 paragraphs, but then you decide to go off the reservation.  Just a little reminder... you are on a Colts forum, so of course some are going to hate on the Pats, and spin everything accordingly.  How could you possibly come here expecting anything else?  Not everything requires you to don your "poor me, I'm a victim" attitude.  It would be OK to rub a little grease on your shoulders, and let things slide right off once in a while.

 

Of course the Colts won't touch him with a 50' pole.  They had no interest in him when he was drafted, either.  The fact remains the Pats did indeed take a chance on him, and it has blown up in their faces.  It isn't strictly hate-orade to acknowledge that.  As I would have expected, though, the Pats' organization has handled the situation about as well as possible.

[bayone]

More like they want to cut ties with the massive distraction. Hernandez is no saint either, he has had repeated cases of gun related violence or crimes, dating all the way back to his college days. Some teams didn't even have him on their draft boards at all and he fell in the draft because of his character issues.

The Patriots also probably had some inside info, as they were commenting on NFL Network today that just about every single NFL team has former FBI agents and detectives working the security of their stadiums and they get information through the grape vine.

Nice to see a Colts fan trying to spin this into a negative Patriots topic though, per usual. They just got rid of a hoodlum that has had problems his entire life and is creating a mass media distraction that is going to be NATIONAL news, covered not just by ESPN and NFL Network, but by CNN, Fox News, MSNBC etc. Kraft didn't want his name or the Patriots name constantly being used in the same sentences as things like a murder investigation.

Maybe your holier than thou Colts will sign him right up.. He is in fact on waivers, so the Colts can go pick him up if they believe so much in "innocent until proven guilty." You want to bet $500 that the Colts don't even touch him with a 50 foot pole?

Go drink some more haterade.

 

Not all, I wrote in now closed thread exactly what u said, this helps clear the air and limit the amount of locker room, training camp distraction to as little as possible,this lets team move on more quickly

 

Actually what i wrote was much more detailed in support of move & no negative spin

[Superman]

you started off so well.  I can totally agree with your first 2 paragraphs, but then you decide to go off the reservation.  Just a little reminder... you are on a Colts forum, so of course some are going to hate on the Pats, and spin everything accordingly.  How could you possibly come here expecting anything else?  Not everything requires you to don your "poor me, I'm a victim" attitude.  It would be OK to rub a little grease on your shoulders, and let things slide right off once in a while.

 

Of course the Colts won't touch him with a 50' pole.  They had no interest in him when he was drafted, either.  The fact remains the Pats did indeed take a chance on him, and it has blown up in their faces.  It isn't strictly hate-orade to acknowledge that.  As I would have expected, though, the Pats' organization has handled the situation about as well as possible.

 

What blew up in the Patriots' face is the contract extension, not the draft pick. They got more out of their fourth round pick that year than we got out of our first, third and fourth round picks that same draft (Jerry Hughes, Kevin Thomas, Jacques McClendon). 

[bayone]

yes but it is a fluid situation . . .  we did not know initially what might of been on the phone or tapes . . . maybe there were things that might of been incriminating on the tapes not involved with the instant case . . . footage of him doing drugs or a drug sale in or around is house . . . destruction of which would not obstruction of justice . . . the police would have to place the criminals or at the scene of the crime at his house for the tapes to be meaningful . . . and that, if at all, may not have come out till later when they searched the house over the weekend . . .

 

my guess is that someone high up in the pats organization with a secured connection with someone in power has a better picture of the evidence and then the pats made its decision . . .

 

In closed thread I wrote

 

after the release

 

confirmed on NFL.com

 

moved said to be a way to disassociate team from the situation so hopefully team can move arm & lessen training camp distractions

 

Team supposedly had news situation was bad

 

also his layers say way he is arrested indicates charges may be worse than obstruction of justice,

-------------------------------------------------------------------

also nfl network says teams usually have ex FBI agents or others with inside connections that let them know the degree of the situation

[schwamm]

What blew up in the Patriots' face is the contract extension, not the draft pick. They got more out of their fourth round pick that year than we got out of our first, third and fourth round picks that same draft (Jerry Hughes, Kevin Thomas, Jacques McClendon). 

I agree, which is why I said the Pats took a chance on him, not that they took a chance by drafting him.

 

That said, I think in the long term interest of the respective clubs, I'd rather have busts that are out of football for lack of talent/motivation than a head case with a history of trouble and a potential murder rap hanging over his head.  No matter how much NE tries to distance themselves from AH, fans will still associate him with the Patriots, and fair or not, it takes more of the shine off the organization.

[Superman]

I agree, which is why I said the Pats took a chance on him, not that they took a chance by drafting him.

 

That said, I think in the long term interest of the respective clubs, I'd rather have busts that are out of football for lack of talent/motivation than a head case with a history of trouble and a potential murder rap hanging over his head.  No matter how much NE tries to distance themselves from AH, fans will still associate him with the Patriots, and fair or not, it takes more of the shine off the organization.

 

I don't know. I think history will judge the Pats favorably when you consider the fact that they released him a week after he was implicated. Not that I really care, just saying.

 

I assumed you were talking about the draft pick, not the contract, because Hernandez hasn't been in any trouble since he was drafted. Ironically, it's been Gronkowski who has been criticized for partying too much, etc. (I don't endorse those criticisms, by the way, just noting them). I thought the new contract made a lot of sense at the time. Long term deal, $5.6m/year, easy decision points, for a player who had been productive and seemed to have put his past issues behind him.

[bayone]

I don't know. I think history will judge the Pats favorably when you consider the fact that they released him a week after he was implicated. Not that I really care, just saying.

 

I assumed you were talking about the draft pick, not the contract, because Hernandez hasn't been in any trouble since he was drafted. Ironically, it's been Gronkowski who has been criticized for partying too much, etc. (I don't endorse those criticisms, by the way, just noting them). I thought the new contract made a lot of sense at the time. Long term deal, $5.6m/year, easy decision points, for a player who had been productive and seemed to have put his past issues behind him.

 

 

NFL network just said Pat decided last week that he would be released if was arrested in conection to the homicide

 

also Pats said its not about the money

 

as noted in some thread a clause left out that would protect pats from having to pay future guarantees, its expected that pats will try to get it, but union , will use CBA to try and prevent that so no precedent set and if clause not used u are stuck

 

clause v basically says Pats wouldnt be responsible to pay if cant work play / work out

 

oh just found article clause left out is

 

 "failure to perform" or "failure to practice" , if included would of protected Pats from paying 

 

NFL network examined contract and confirms clause left out

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000213873/article/examining-aaron-hernandezs-new-england-patriots-contract

[schwamm]

I don't know. I think history will judge the Pats favorably when you consider the fact that they released him a week after he was implicated. Not that I really care, just saying.

 

I assumed you were talking about the draft pick, not the contract, because Hernandez hasn't been in any trouble since he was drafted. Ironically, it's been Gronkowski who has been criticized for partying too much, etc. (I don't endorse those criticisms, by the way, just noting them). I thought the new contract made a lot of sense at the time. Long term deal, $5.6m/year, easy decision points, for a player who had been productive and seemed to have put his past issues behind him.

Fair enough.  I guess players like Art Schlichter stick in my memory with more persistence that any other "busts" because he did more to tarnish the Colts' rep (which wasn't all that impressive at the time, anyway).  But that's just me.

[Superman]

NFL network just said Pat decided last week that he would be released if was arrested in conection to the homicide

 

also Pats said its not about the money

 

as noted in some thread a clause left out that would protect pats from having to pay future guarantees, its expected that pats will try to get it, but union , will use CBA to try and prevent that so no precedent set and if clause not used u are stuck

 

clause v basically says Pats wouldnt be responsible to pay if cant work play / work out

 

oh just found article clause left out is

 

 "failure to perform" or "failure to practice" , if included would of protected Pats from paying 

 

NFL network examined contract and confirms clause left out

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000213873/article/examining-aaron-hernandezs-new-england-patriots-contract

 

It wouldn't be setting a precedent. I believe that precedent is already set. The Falcons recouped bonus money and received credits after Michael Vick was released.

 

But that story you linked is interesting. It's strange to me that there'd be no failure to perform clause in Hernandez's contract, given his past. And I'm not sure, but there might be a separate personal conduct clause.

[southwest1]

Yep. Bravo for them. I was hoping they'd just get him out.

 

 

Pats aren't the Ravens who propped Lewis up as the symbol of character and intergrity the last 10 years. And they are not the Giants either who tried to sign Plaxico after his prison release.

 

I applaud the move. This is going to get ugly and they are out of it altogether. Interested to see who they sign and how much of AHs contract they can recoup...in this sense Roger will be on their side.

Whoa there fellas...Why are you both so quick to endorse premature termination? Hernandez hasn't been convicted of anything yet. Can you boss fire both of you just because they feel like it with no probable cause, trial, or evidence?  At least let the legal system run it's course first & wait for a verdict like Coltsrule91 said. It's called "due process" for a reason. 

 

If Hernandez's lawyer wanted to push this, he could file a suit against the Patriots Organization for "unlawful termination." I will admit though that I am not well versed in the new CBA regulations & what it says regarding criminal activities. 

[schwamm]

Whoa there fellas...Why are you both so quick to endorse premature termination? Hernandez hasn't been convicted of anything yet. Can you boss fire both of you just because they feel like it with no probable cause, trial, or evidence?  At least let the legal system run it's course first & wait for a verdict like Coltsrule91 said. It's called "due process" for a reason. 

 

If Hernandez's lawyer wanted to push this, he could file a suit against the Patriots Organization for "unlawful termination." I will admit though that I am not well versed in the new CBA regulations & what it says regarding criminal activities. 

Can you be sure the Patriots' organization hasn't been briefed on the body of evidence against AH, enough to make them feel compelled to take this action now, before the evidence becomes public knowledge?

 

There is "guilty" and there is "guilty in the court of public opinion".  Both can do more harm to the Pats' organization than the player is worth.  As far as I know, they are perfectly within their rights to terminate AH's contract, as long as they are willing to pay him according to that contract if he is proven innocent.  I don't believe there is anything unlawful about cutting a player.

[Superman]

Whoa there fellas...Why are you both so quick to endorse premature termination? Hernandez hasn't been convicted of anything yet. Can you boss fire both of you just because they feel like it with no probable cause, trial, or evidence?  At least let the legal system run it's course first & wait for a verdict like Coltsrule91 said. It's called "due process" for a reason. 

 

If Hernandez's lawyer wanted to push this, he could file a suit against the Patriots Organization for "unlawful termination." I will admit though that I am not well versed in the new CBA regulations & what it says regarding criminal activities. 

 

To the bolded, yes. Typical employment is not in any way related to due process in the legal system.

 

In Hernandez's case, his contract can be terminated for whatever reason the Patriots decide. They could have released him because he has bad body odor if they wanted.

 

Edit: And weren't you saying the NFL should have suspended Ray Lewis before the Super Bowl because of the deer antler claim, which was never substantiated? But now you're saying that the Pats could be sued for unlawful termination?

[Superman]

UPDATE: Hernandez charged with murder

 

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/26/19152123-former-patriots-tight-end-aaron-hernandez-charged-with-murder?lite

[CantBeStopped]

I dont understand the locking of thread. Who wants to sift through one thread

[Juanjo]

Charged with murder!

[Superman]

I dont understand the locking of thread. Who wants to sift through one thread

 

Who wants to have a half dozen different threads on the same topic?

 

We'll continue updating the thread as necessary, but don't want the board flooded with a new thread every time there's another development. Thanks for understanding.

[southwest1]

yes but it is a fluid situation . . .  we did not know initially what might of been on the phone or tapes . . . maybe there were things that might of been incriminating on the tapes not involved with the instant case . . . footage of him doing drugs or a drug sale in or around is house . . . destruction of which would not obstruction of justice . . . the police would have to place the criminals or at the scene of the crime at his house for the tapes to be meaningful . . . and that, if at all, may not have come out till later when they searched the house over the weekend . . .

 

my guess is that someone high up in the pats organization with a secured connection with someone in power has a better picture of the evidence and then the pats made its decision . . .

A well written post here Yehoodi! 1 question though: Can an NFL team fire a player prior to any illegal activity becoming public knowledge in a court of law as the official record of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts? I don't know my friend. I'm asking. I am not defending illegal activity just the rights of anyone accused of a crime. BTW, an unlawful termination suit might not work, but continuing to get a game check all season until a verdict is announced would help pay Hernandez's legal fees & keep his lawyers happy. 

[TKnight24]

I'm watching the LIVE courtroom on NFL Network and Hernandez seems to have no remorse or anything. Like he's just standing there like he knows he did it or something

Most people who know they're innocent would be crying or something

Maybe that's just my view on it

[Blackhawk4]

After watching this entire thing unfold to this point all I can really do is.

 

I'm watching the LIVE courtroom on NFL Network and Hernandez seems to have no remorse or anything. Like he's just standing there like he knows he did it or something

Most people who know they're innocent would be crying or something

Maybe that's just my view on it

 

Safe to say it is. Not everyone is going to react to being charged with murder the same way. Some may cry, some may be in shock, some may be in disbelief etc. etc. heck there's been people who've smiled and looked like they're glad so it's different for everyone.

[CR91]

you have everything you can ever want in life and you blow it by being stupid. why cant people figure out how fortunate they are to be in the position their in and how people would kill ( no pun intended) to be in their shoes.

[open window]

I'm watching the LIVE courtroom on NFL Network and Hernandez seems to have no remorse or anything. Like he's just standing there like he knows he did it or something

Most people who know they're innocent would be crying or something

Maybe that's just my view on it

 

Easy Matlock, lets let this thing play out before you condemn someone based off of a look or expression.

[CR91]

I'm watching the LIVE courtroom on NFL Network and Hernandez seems to have no remorse or anything. Like he's just standing there like he knows he did it or something

Most people who know they're innocent would be crying or something

Maybe that's just my view on it

 

people with money always think their invincible

[trsean]

Can you boss fire both of you just because they feel like it with no probable cause, trial, or evidence?  . 

 

Yes.

[House]

The Pats Org and Pats fans and backing away from Hernandez so fast they're getting rug burn.

[Blackhawk4]

people with money always think their invincible

Statements like this just get a you might want to think next time before making a statement like this. Pretty sure there are a lot of people with money who would disagree with you there.

[dynasty13]

The Pats Org and Pats fans and backing away from Hernandez so fast they're getting rug burn.

 

As expected. He has some great years with us but right now he's no longer a member of the team and he is being charged with murder. Any 'allegiance' should be and is gone.

[TAPLOOK]

The Pats Org and Pats fans and backing away from Hernandez so fast they're getting rug burn.

 

Why wouldn't they? I never seen such strong evidence. He's a goner. There's no way to defend this. I can't wait to see what's up with the other two guys.

[Gavin]

I wonder if Hernandez will be asked if he wants to give a statement at some point, I'd sure like to know what he is thinking

[southwest1]

To the bolded, yes. Typical employment is not in any way related to due process in the legal system.

 

In Hernandez's case, his contract can be terminated for whatever reason the Patriots decide. They could have released him because he has bad body odor if they wanted.

 

Edit: And weren't you saying the NFL should have suspended Ray Lewis before the Super Bowl because of the deer antler claim, which was never substantiated? But now you're saying that the Pats could be sued for unlawful termination?

I will acknowledge that many people have been fired due to a lack of production, poor supervisor evaluations, or poor attention to detail which causes wealthy investors to leave your company or pull their endorsements etc. Unlawful termination suits get filed all the time. Their success rate is another issue entirely. The point is every company has a Human Resources Dept & there is an appeals process in place to protect the rights of the employee & employer. Please don't create the false impression that a fired worker has no legal recourse Superman. That's simply not the case. 

 

I did not demand Ray Lewis suspension for deer antler spray. I only asked that the matter be taken seriously & not completely dismissed outright just because Lewis is a superstar athlete that's all. 

[CR91]

Statements like this just get a you might want to think next time before making a statement like this. Pretty sure there are a lot of people with money who would disagree with you there.

 

yea? tell me how Im wrong

[House]

As expected. He has some great years with us but right now he's no longer a member of the team and he is being charged with murder. Any 'allegiance' should be and is gone.

From the Pats org no doubt, but it is funny to see the same people proclaiming his innocence yesterday burning him in a second today.

Fascinating to watch play out.

[House]

Why wouldn't they? I never seen such strong evidence. He's a goner. There's no way to defend this. I can't wait to see what's up with the other two guys.

I never said they shouldn't lol.

[SilentHill]

Supposedly the prosecution has video evidence of Hernandez with the Murder Weapon, and also a shell casing matching the gun, and the scene was found in a car he rented. This is crazy.

[Blackhawk4]

yea? tell me how Im wrong

Not really that hard. You said people with money always think they're invincible, someone with money says they don't think they're invincible, thus people with money do not always think they're invincible....It's basic stuff really. Just because Aaron Hernandez has a lot of money (in comparison to the average american) doesn't mean he thought he was invincible. You're just putting words in his mouth and any other person who's doing well financially when you make a statement like that. Money can only do so much. Is it a factor? Of course it is, but if Hernandez is proven innocent it's not the sole reason why he would be proven innocent.

[dynasty13]

From the Pats org no doubt, but it is funny to see the same people proclaiming his innocents yesterday burning him in a second today.

Fascinating to watch play out.

 

Did people proclaim his innocence? If they did I missed it and wont defend it...but what I typically do and I'm sure many others did as well is to wait and reserve judgment until the story is out before completely turning on someone. Now that he's been charged, people are making their judgments and any and all allegiance that was left is gone.

[Gavin]

yea? tell me how Im wrong

So you think Peyton thinks he is invincible?

[TKnight24]

This is crazy. The NFL use to be straight Football

Now it's like a Soap Opera mixed with other things.

P.S. Hernandez Lawyer stutters a lot the pressure is getting to the lawyer

[Gavin]

From the Pats org no doubt, but it is funny to see the same people proclaiming his innocence yesterday burning him in a second today.

Fascinating to watch play out.

Colts fans would do the same with Marvin Harrison if he was found guilty, He was never absolved either by the way, This goes WAY beyond a football game now, He is no longer Hernandez the Tight End, He is Hernandez the charged murder