Did Pats Make a Mistake Paying Gronk all those millions?

[amfootball]

Please tell me Eric Mangini is not that dumb. That's like your best friend is off serving in Afghanistan & you have intimate relations with his wife while he is gone & he finds out. There is no reset button & some things can never be forgotten or forgiven. Bill gave Eric his 1st NFL job. Without Bill, there is no NY Jets job, no Cleveland Browns job, no ESPN job, & no SB rings. Some fences can never be mended; nor should they be IMO. I'd never bury that hatchet ever & I'm a very forgiving person. Here's an extra pitch fork Eric...Feel that heat sizzle...HaHaHa!  

I know. Seems silly at this point. But I guess you have to try. I actually like his analysis a lot when he is on ESPN. I wish he would come back and coach the pats secondary again. It has never been close to the same since he left. :-(

[ViriLudant]

He was not close to being the best TE last year. He is still rehabbing that same arm and has a reality show in the works...

Uh huh. Just because Brady spread the ball around more this past season does not make me wrong.

If Gronk had been healthy in the last SB, they would have won that. Not a fact, of course, but I'm fairly certain of it.

He's by far the Patriots' most dangerous weapon.

By the way, BB wouldn't have paid him the highest salary for a TE if he didn't believe it.

[amfootball]

Uh huh. Just because Brady spread the ball around more this past season does not make me wrong.

If Gronk had been healthy in the last SB, they would have won that. Not a fact, of course, but I'm fairly certain of it.

He's by far the Patriots' most dangerous weapon.

By the way, BB wouldn't have paid him the highest salary for a TE if he didn't believe it.

I don't disagree on his talent just his off-season committment which I believe has led to the injuries. This reality show has put me over the edge. I think Bill may have pulled the trigger too soon on this guy. He is becoming a clown.

 

I agree about the SB. Would have beaten the Giants if he was there and may have beaten the Ravens this past post-season too. So frustrating.

[southwest1]

The ironic thing is he was there during the spygate years so it tarnishes his resume too.

The "I was just following my superior's orders" defense?! Sure Eric, it worked so well for Germany & the NAZIs at the close of WWII. 3 words: The Nuremberg Trials...My point is Eric's reputation has been destroyed in NE. His head coaching days are over. Eric is very good at breaking down game film though on ESPN. He can still make a good living on television as a football analyst. I can see what Bill saw in him.

[Dustin]

That offer for Fleener is still on the table.

[southwest1]

Yet your own coach and your own GM have stated plainly for all to see that the Patriots did not cheat.

 

Welcome back VL! Nice to see you posting again...No, NE does not. 

[southwest1]

That's what blows my mind about Eric Mangini's decision to go public with the Spygate scandal. Didn't he realize the pandora's box he was literally opening? Why would you literally spit in the face of the man who gave you a career & made you a household name in NFL circles? Did Eric not have any confidence in his players, schemes, or coaching ability? If you can't beat your master, cut him off at the knees? What motivates a man to sabotage his own promising coaching career? I find this kind of stuff fascinating...

 

And why do this to a loyal fan base that prior to this scandal loved you & recognized your vital role in winning 3 rings? What the Hades man?! If this is loyalty, what does devious underhandedness look like Eric?!!! Crazy just crazy...

[Dustin]

That's what blows my mind about Eric Mangini's decision to go public with the Spygate scandal. Didn't he realize the pandora's box he was literally opening? Why would you literally spit in the face of the man who gave you a career & made you a household name in NFL circles? Did Eric not have any confidence in his players, schemes, or coaching ability? If you can't beat your master, cut him off at the knees? What motivates a man to sabotage his own promising coaching career? I find this kind of stuff fascinating...

And why do this to a loyal fan base that prior to this scandal loved you & recognized your vital role in winning 3 rings? What the Hades man?! If this is loyalty, what does devious underhandedness look like Eric?!!! Crazy just crazy...

His conscious probably. He must have felt bad about all the cheating and figured it would clear his conscious to go public.

[southwest1]

I know. Seems silly at this point. But I guess you have to try. I actually like his analysis a lot when he is on ESPN. I wish he would come back and coach the pats secondary again. It has never been close to the same since he left. :-(

You present an interesting scenario amfootball. If Bill Belichick got desperate enough to swallow his pride & ask for Eric's secondary help & the Pat's won a 4th SB, would all past indiscretions now be forgiven? Hmmm...The compulsion to win vs burying old grudges...The NFL is hands down the best soap opera around man... Can Eric literally go home to Foxboro again? The plot thickens...

[southwest1]

His conscious probably. He must have felt bad about all the cheating and figured it would clear his conscious to go public.

Eric Mangini does have a quiet soft spoken demeanor that seems incapable or unwilling to exaggerate, lie, or make things up. I still don't believe Bill cheated, but Eric is a likable guy that is a tough person to smear, crucify, or outright hate; much less call a liar. Both realities cannot hold true. It's impossible...I abstain from voting on this issue.

Seriously though, with no real villain in this scandal, there is no victory or conclusion here; merely a stalemate vs a checkmate...Both kings on the chessboard are neutralized. It's a draw. No ones dies & no one wins...

[ViriLudant]

His conscious probably. He must have felt bad about all the cheating and figured it would clear his conscious to go public.

Riiiiigggghhhhht.

It probably had NOTHING to do with the fact that he was the head coach of the Patriots' main rival.

Nope, nothing at all.

[TAPLOOK]

Don't feel sorry for the Patriots. Their biggest concern has been the D. If the D can just be middle of the pack they win the next SB hands down this coming season and it looks like they may have made those upgrade even before the draft. Regardless they will still be in the thick of things just like every year with or without Gronk. Don't kid yourselves. I'd be more worried about the Colts slipping.

[House]

Don't feel sorry for the Patriots. Their biggest concern has been the D. If the D can just be middle of the pack they win the next SB hands down this coming season and it looks like they may have made those upgrade even before the draft. Regardless they will still be in the thick of things just like every year with or without Gronk. Don't kid yourselves. I'd be more worried about the Colts slipping.

*Comments on Colts slipping*

*Doesn't bother with fact Pats fan started this thread*

[TAPLOOK]

I'd forgot who started the post after reading most of the replies. There are so many fans with the easy cop out responses. The Patriots will be very good again. Only a fool would think otherwise.

I think the Colts and Luck played over their head last season. I think things played out in the best possible way with Luck and the whole Chuck Strong thing. They got some momentum and had a little roll. The schedule comes out tonight but a highly doubt the Colts win as many games as last season. I think they slip in the win column without really taking a step back. I think they'll grow from the experience.

 

 

 

 

*Comments on Colts slipping*

*Doesn't bother with fact Pats fan started this thread*

[House]

I'd forgot who started the post after reading most of the replies. There are so many fans with the easy cop out responses. The Patriots will be very good again. Only a fool would think otherwise.

I think the Colts and Luck played over their head last season. I think things played out in the best possible way with Luck and the whole Chuck Strong thing. They got some momentum and had a little roll. The schedule comes out tonight but a highly doubt the Colts win as many games as last season. I think they slip in the win column without really taking a step back. I think they'll grow from the experience.

Back to my original point again, that this thread was started by a Pats fan, and nothing in the OP has ANYTHING to do with the Colts

[amfootball]

Back to my original point again, that this thread was started by a Pats fan, and nothing in the OP has ANYTHING to do with the Colts

lol. Colts had to make their way into here. :-) I am sure a discussion of Manning with follow... ;)

[GoPats]

I don't know if they cheat now, I don't have evidence of such.  But the evidence seems to indicate that they cheated up until the point they where caught which means IMO they won their 4 SB's through cheating.

 

So in terms of legit, non cheating SB's they have won precisely 0.  2 time AFC champs though. . . Good job.   

 

 

Somehow, despite being a fan since the late 1970s, I missed the Patriots winning FOUR pre-Spygate Super Bowls.

 

(Psst! It was 3.)

 

Just a tip, too. Whiffing on a very basic fact like that doesn't do much to substantiate your "objective" opinion. If this were court, you'd be thrown out as an unreliable witness.

[GoPats]

187 catches, 2663 yards, and 38 TDs in three NFL seasons. Gronk is the best TE in football. Yes he's had some injury issues, and yes he's a big dummy. But you can't deny the dominance and productivity.

 

While a lot of self-proclaimed geniuses here have questioned why he was still in the game against Indy when he broke his forearm, do a little research. Even Tony Dungy (St. Tony, to some of you) said it would be "ridiculous" to sub out a player on your PAT team at any point in a game. The odds of him getting hurt the way he did are lower than the odds of him getting in a car wreck on his way to the stadium. So I guess they shouldn't let him drive either.

 

The Spygate comments are just over-the-top hilarious. Can't believe how many people who post on football boards know so little when it comes to factual info. But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

[southwest1]

Somehow, despite being a fan since the late 1970s, I missed the Patriots winning FOUR pre-Spygate Super Bowls.

(Psst! It was 3.)

Just a tip, too. Whiffing on a very basic fact like that doesn't do much to substantiate your "objective" opinion. If this were court, you'd be thrown out as an unreliable witness.

Perhaps, it was subconscious foreshadowing GOpats...A 4th NE Lombardi is inevitable...That's how I interpret the line: "They won their 4 SB's through cheating."

Greatness may be temporarily deferred/delayed, but it cannot be denied IMO.

[House]

Somehow, despite being a fan since the late 1970s, I missed the Patriots winning FOUR pre-Spygate Super Bowls.

(Psst! It was 3.)

Just a tip, too. Whiffing on a very basic fact like that doesn't do much to substantiate your "objective" opinion. If this were court, you'd be thrown out as an unreliable witness.

Lol your overall point completely lands, but you don't get thrown out as a witness for mistaking 3 with 4.

[amfootball]

Lol your overall point completely lands, but you don't get thrown out as a witness for mistaking 3 with 4.

I wish it was 4.  <-----she's cute.

[Colts_Fan12]

lol. Colts had to make their way into here. :-) I am sure a discussion of Manning with follow... ;)

I would hope so it is the colts forum lol

[House]

I wish it was 4. <-----she's cute.

[southwest1]

The one thing I will say honestly is that if Tom Brady & the Patriots hoist the Lombardi trophy above their heads at the conclusion of this upcoming season, NE's Championship legacy will be secure & it will firmly kill the Spygate giant once & for all. I would like to know what foolish conspiracy theorists will say when, not if, this happens...Even if this year isn't the one, eventually a 4th ring is almost a foregone conclusion. What will the people who cling to Spygate with Octopus tentacles claim then? I'm kind of looking forward to that balloon pop actually. HA! HA!  

 

Like I always say Tom Brady can have 4 rings. I'm cool with it. Just give Peyton Manning 2 rings. 

 

I do admire Tom Brady's ability to adapt to massive roster turnover & still win Playoff games. Very impressive. Don't forget the NFL schedule show comes out tonight at 7 P.M. on NFL Network too. Sweet! 

[southwest1]

I wish it was 4. <-----she's cute.

Now, that's what I call jury tampering...Bawd A Bing Bawd A Boom! Wink, wink...She can debrief me anytime...LOL! It kind of gives a whole new meaning to the phrase: "hostile witness cross examination" doesn't it? Hello!

[southwest1]

Lol your overall point completely lands, but you don't get thrown out as a witness for mistaking 3 with 4.

They do if they put their hand on the Bible & swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, & nothing but the truth" & you fail to do so though. Unless it's an upside down, chinese bible with half of the pages missing House. [A George Carlin comedy routine about religion & civil rights that is.] Just Kidding man!!!

What happens if you raise your left hand & put your right hand on the bible? Can you as a witness lie freely with immunity now? Hmmm...I've always wondered that...

[southwest1]

He's by far the Patriots' most dangerous weapon.

By the way, BB wouldn't have paid him the highest salary for a TE if he didn't believe it.

Personally VL, I'd say Vince Wilfork is, but then again I'm partial to defensive guys with power, leverage, & girth that are swift on their feet. But on offense, you are probably right with RB Danny Woodhead now in San Diego. Yup, Bill's no fool. He's not giving premium dollars to a scrub player. No argument there. 

[southwest1]

I know. Seems silly at this point. But I guess you have to try. I actually like his analysis a lot when he is on ESPN.

I hope Bill Belichick didn't name Eric Mangini a godfather to his son or something like that when he was a small baby amfootball. Talk about how awkward that friendship would be now eh...Yikes! Eating a slice of cake as a guest at the Belichick house would be like walking into a bear trap now. Oops! There goes your foot Eric. Ouch!

I do wonder though when Bill wins another ring & completely puts Spygate in the rearview mirror forever, does Bill accept any peace offering from Eric at all? Doubtful, but once a person absolutely proves that their winning Championships was not a fluke or unfair competitive edge, anger & resentment tends to disperse & dissipate for the longhaul in most brilliant people. Why? There is nothing left to prove or validate anymore. Greatness has been established for everyone to see & benevolence is the order of the day.

[PrincetonTiger]

they could have 

[Valpo2004]

Yet your own coach and your own GM have stated plainly for all to see that the Patriots did not cheat.

But hey, apparently you know more than both Polian and Dungy.

 

I don't know about Polian and Dungy or what they think.  But the NFL sure considered it cheating since they relieved you guys of a 2nd round pick.  

 

Unlike College football the NFL doesn't withdraw championships.  

[GoPats]

Lol your overall point completely lands, but you don't get thrown out as a witness for mistaking 3 with 4.

 

I hear ya.

 

I've never begrudged a well-informed opinion. It's the half-informed opinions that I think I could live without. ;)

[jskinnz]

I don't disagree on his talent just his off-season committment which I believe has led to the injuries. This reality show has put me over the edge. I think Bill may have pulled the trigger too soon on this guy. He is becoming a clown.

 

I agree about the SB. Would have beaten the Giants if he was there and may have beaten the Ravens this past post-season too. So frustrating.

There is often a logic disconnect on your posts and this one is no different. Gronk got hurt in the 2011 AFCCG on a terribly awkward tackle. Any player would have gotten hurt the way his ankle was bent under. Last year he broke his arm blocking on the most innocuous play possible with the PAT. His subsequent injury and surgeries have nothing to do with conditioning. You can argue he is a clown and so forth, but trying to tie his injuries into his offseason conditioning does not pass the smell test.

[amfootball]

There is often a logic disconnect on your posts and this one is no different. Gronk got hurt in the 2011 AFCCG on a terribly awkward tackle. Any player would have gotten hurt the way his ankle was bent under. Last year he broke his arm blocking on the most innocuous play possible with the PAT. His subsequent injury and surgeries have nothing to do with conditioning. You can argue he is a clown and so forth, but trying to tie his injuries into his offseason conditioning does not pass the smell test.

What logic disconnect? Can you give an example? I feel my arguments are pretty sound but often go against the prevalent line of thinking up here so maybe you are mistaking my alternative position for a disconnect.

 

In terms of Gronkowski, your take is short-sighted. Gronk fell to the second round in the draft because he had back issues in college so his injury history goes back to college. Two seasons ago he suffered a severe ankle injury from what looked like a pretty routine tackle from the much smaller Pollard. Perhaps it was just bad luck as you say. Then this season he breaks his forearm on a PAT, perhaps more bad luck except he was battling hip and back issues all season as well which hurt his productivity which was nowhere near what it had been in 2011.

 

But here is the rub. After the SB in 2012 where he was basically a decoy on an ankle that would require off-season surgery, he was seen at an after SB party dancing his head off with no shirt on. Pretty dumb thing to be doing on a badly damaged ankle IMO. This past off-season after breaking his forearm TWICE during the season, he is spotted in a night club with a brace on the still healing forearm where he then proceeds to body slam another man who is close to his size. Even dumber. Now it comes out that he is working on a reality show, http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/report_rob_gronkowski_working_on_reality_show/11301130

 

To think his off-season activities have nothing to do with his on-field injuries is naïve.

[ViriLudant]

Yes, you have a major logical disconnect.

There is NO connection between Gronk's back issues from college and the injuries that he has suffered this year.

None.

Whatsoever.

And your last point is completely illogical.

[amfootball]

Yes, you have a major logical disconnect.

There is NO connection between Gronk's back issues from college and the injuries that he has suffered this year.

None.

Whatsoever.

And your last point is completely illogical.

Yes, there would be a disconnect if I had said that Gronk’s back issues in college had anything to do with his NFL injuries, which I didn’t. My point is that his history of injury issues that goes back to college may have to do with his off-season work-out program or lack thereof. The guy is 6’6 and a beast of man and yet continues to get injured so it is reasonable to speculate that perhaps he needs to jack up his off-season program the way Aaron Hernandez has decided to do this season, (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/11/aaron-hernandez-changes-workouts-in-hopes-of-playing-16-games-in-2013/) instead of launching a reality show.

 

Do you really think Wes Welker and his stunning durability at 5'8 has to do with the fact that he is just lucky or not injury-prone? Anyone that knows anything about football will tell you that Wes works like a tank in the off-season and has already been working out with Peyton to not only get on the same page but to ensure he is in football shape NOW to take the punishment that is sure to come his way in Sept. His rehab from his torn ACL was not so much miraculous as it was pure grit and determination. This is the part I question about Gronk given his priorities in the off-season.

[braveheartcolt]

I don't get wat you are trying to say I just mean if the pats are up big in the 4th take the starters out but they don't they just lay it on teams like AZ BUF NYJ in the past just sayin my point is just they have been known to run the score up on teams and that causes more football fans to strongly dislike the pats there have been quite a few times the pats have been very unsportsmanlike

When I watched the Patriots run up the score agains us last season, my only thought was how poor we played. If you don't want a team to run up the score against you, stop them, you don't whinge about it.

[amfootball]

When I watched the Patriots run up the score agains us last season, my only thought was how poor we played. If you don't want a team to run up the score against you, stop them, you don't whinge about it.

I agree with every word of your post. It was not that long ago when the Pats were the ones getting beat up on. I remember watching them get trounced by Marino, Elway and Montana and never once did I think those guys shouldn't be trying to score. I kept thinking, are we really that bad? And truly we were.

[bayone]

I agree with every word of your post. It was not that long ago when the Pats were the ones getting beat up on. I remember watching them get trounced by Marino, Elway and Montana and never once did I think those guys shouldn't be trying to score. I kept thinking, are we really that bad? And truly we were.

 

 

Personally I feel , and know on the surface it may seem bad , like kicking someone when he is down, HOWEVER when u realize that a team is also trying various packages in various situations, to learn what will work best encase someone goes down and that situation comes up, u have to know how various packages will work together when needed ., and if these sent in variables score the better the team confidence with depth they have and also Pats know then who if cap space is an issue they can jettisoon as know they have something else that works to build on ,

 

That has to be a run on sentance, I hated English glass  class 

[braveheartcolt]

 

Personally I feel , and know on the surface it may seem bad , like kicking someone when he is down, HOWEVER when u realize that a team is also trying various packages in various situations, to learn what will work best encase someone goes down and that situation comes up, u have to know how various packages will work together when needed ., and if these sent in variables score the better the team confidence with depth they have and also Pats know then who if cap space is an issue they can jettisoon as know they have something else that works to build on ,

 

That has to be a run on sentance, I hated English glass  class

I was out of breath just reading it! No, good comments, well said, 100% true....

[lollygagger8]

Anyone can get injured on any play. $___ Happens. They locked Gronk up because when healthy, the guy is a stud. They should've done the same thing with Welker instead of dinking him around.