Im all in for a CB in the first.

[MarquisJ]

I feel like CB is our biggest need. Football is the ultimate team sport and you need good corners to give the pass rush a chance to get to the QB, that's why people think our pass rush was horrible because it was easy to find a open target with our DBs. Imagine if we got someone like Desmond Trufant. That would be the biggest position battle in camp. Just thinking about Laron Landry, Antoine Bethea, Vontae Davis, Desmond Trufant and Greg or Darius at slot! Get chills just thinking about it...

[BlueCollarColts]

So do you want us to put Greg Toler in the slot? Everything I have read on him says he is good and highly underrated, and Darius Butler is a good nickel back, I say draft a corner in the 3rd or 4th round for depth, and focus on WR, G, or pass rush in 1st

[Charliemac24]

Yea i would love a corner in the first....cause we are one injury away from cassius vaughn playing

[BOTT]

I feel like CB is our biggest need. Football is the ultimate team sport and you need good corners to give the pass rush a chance to get to the QB, that's why people think our pass rush was horrible because it was easy to find a open target with our DBs. Imagine if we got someone like Desmond Trufant. That would be the biggest position battle in camp. Just thinking about Laron Landry, Antoine Bethea, Vontae Davis, Desmond Trufant and Greg or Darius at slot! Get chills just thinking about it...

U have that backwards

[BProland85]

Im all for drafting Desmond Trufant, but I feel he would start out as our nickel corner since he is very quick and can stay with slot WRs. Then, as he gets better he would be our outside corner opposite Davis. Toler is around for 3 years, but I feel drafting Trufant would be the long term solution at starting CB opposite Davis.

[MarquisJ]

THANK YOU, someone understands.

Yea i would love a corner in the first....cause we are one injury away from cassius vaughn playing

[MarquisJ]

We are literally a injury away from a disappointing season. Idk about you guys but I just cant and I wont watch cassius play on defense this year.. He would be a GREAT special team addition though.

[BOTT]

Yea i would love a corner in the first....cause we are one injury away from cassius vaughn playing

Colts are one injury away from harnish, Hughes and Link playing too

[NewColtsFan]

Several thoughts....

 

One,  bad cornerback play didn't lead to a worse pass rush.    We had both.     But 'A' didn't lead to 'B'....

 

Two,  before he was a coordinator, Pagano coached defensive backs.    If Vaughn was as bad as you think he is,  he would not be on the team.    But, as of now,  he is.

 

Defense is the strength of the draft....   there are lots and lots of good corners in this draft.    We don't have to spend a #1 on a corner to find a good one.

 

For those who want another position addressed....   we don't have to spend a #1 on a WR to find a good one.   We don't have to spend a #1 on a DE/OLB to find a good one.    We don't have to spend a #1 on a guard to find a good one.    There a good players all over this draft.

 

Grigson will find them.

[Nobody]

CB our biggest need?

[throwing BBZ]

Harnish over Hasselbeck?? Ok
Hughes will play plenty.
Hopefully Ijalana plays before Link-less.

[Tark The Shark]

I think CB is a need but I don't see it as the top priority.

 

I think G and WR are bigger needs than CB.

[BOTT]

Harnish over Hasselbeck?? Ok

Hughes will play plenty.

Hopefully Ijalana plays before Link-less.

Ok, I forgot about Hasselbeck, but I think you get the point

[MarquisJ]

Hypothetically speaking, If Xavier Rhodes or Desmond where still on the board our pick you would pass that up for a receiver? Even though we're switching to a west coast offense? If you don't know WCO utilizes the TE awfully a lot.  

CB our biggest need?

[throwing BBZ]

Several thoughts....

 

One,  bad cornerback play didn't lead to a worse pass rush.    We had both.     But 'A' didn't lead to 'B'....

 

Two,  before he was a coordinator, Pagano coached defensive backs.    If Vaughn was as bad as you think he is,  he would not be on the team.    But, as of now,  he is.

 

Defense is the strength of the draft....   there are lots and lots of good corners in this draft.    We don't have to spend a #1 on a corner to find a good one.

 

For those who want another position addressed....   we don't have to spend a #1 on a WR to find a good one.   We don't have to spend a #1 on a DE/OLB to find a good one.    We don't have to spend a #1 on a guard to find a good one.    There a good players all over this draft.

 

Grigson will find them.

 

 

 Your post is an O-fer.

 Poor coverage Always hinders the Pass Rush.

 

 Where we are drafting starting in the 3rd round you are MUCH more likely to be drafting "just a Guy". 

 There will be Guys drafted after us in the 3rd that in time turn into GOOD players, but it will several times over more miss than hit.

 

[21isSuperman]

U have that backwards

If you are referring to his statement of poor DBs resulting in a poor pass rush, I think they work off each other.  Good pass rush = no time for the QB = forced throws = knockdowns/picks, but at the same time, good coverage = QB holds the ball longer since no targets are open = pass rushers get a sack

[BOTT]

If you are referring to his statement of poor DBs resulting in a poor pass rush, I think they work off each other.  Good pass rush = no time for the QB = forced throws = knockdowns/picks, but at the same time, good coverage = QB holds the ball longer since no targets are open = pass rushers get a sack

Yes I get the point, but a pass rush is more vital to a defense than cover guys. I doubt Tom Brady went into the SB thinking "oh no, I have to face Terrell Thomas"

[CjMcGirt23]

Hypothetically speaking, If Xavier Rhodes or Desmond where still on the board our pick you would pass that up for a receiver? Even though we're switching to a west coast offense? If you don't know WCO utilizes the TE awfully a lot.  

I would pass on any receiver in the draft for Xavier Rhodes. The only person I think more highly of, that we have a possibility to draft, is Jarvis Jones if he somehow miraculously falls to us.

[NewColtsFan]

 Your post is an O-fer.

 Poor coverage Always hinders the Pass Rush.

 

 Where we are drafting starting in the 3rd round you are MUCH more likely to be drafting "just a Guy". 

 There will be Guys drafted after us in the 3rd that in time turn into GOOD players, but it will several times over more miss than hit.

 

 

 

I didn't say poor coverage didn't hurt us....    I said it didn't lead to a poor pass rush.     If we had great corners, we still had a bad pass rush. 

 

Sure,  by the law of averages,  you're more likely to get a good player in the first round than you are in any other round.   That is beyond dispute.     All I'm saying is whatever area you think is pressing it can be addressed after the first round.

 

Grigson showed everyone here what can be done after the first round.   Allen, Hilton, Ballard, all huge hits.   Fleener and Brazill show promise.   Chapman, a likely steal.    Talent can be found after the first round.    That's where championship teams are built.

 

And....   there's always a chance we can trade back as well and collect more picks.

 

I don't think that post was as oh-fer as you think it was....

[james_zeigler1994]

CB in the first I would be ok with that .

[TKnight24]

That statement is extremely backwards! A good pass rush = Better Secondary

Prime Example? Cardinals vs Rams (Janoris Jenkins vs Larry Fitzgerald)

Jenkins looked like a shutdown CB due to Chris Long & his group of savages abusing Kolb. Honestly, what rookie really looks good against Fitzgerald?

I'll take a good pass rush. Might even make Vaughn look goo....... okay nevermind that's just wishful thinking

[In Luck We Trust]

So do you want us to put Greg Toler in the slot? Everything I have read on him says he is good and highly underrated, and Darius Butler is a good nickel back, I say draft a corner in the 3rd or 4th round for depth, and focus on WR, G, or pass rush in 1st

things i have heard from cardinal fans when i went to AZ last week is that toller is over paid and overrated. he has had injuries to his legs the last two years with that torn ACL in 2011, then hamstring and ankle injuries last year although he played through it. im not sold on Toller, im hoping he will prove me wrong, but i dont see it happening. we need a CB especially with Vaughn waiting for either Toller or Butler to get hurt.

[Nobody]

Hypothetically speaking, If Xavier Rhodes or Desmond where still on the board our pick you would pass that up for a receiver? Even though we're switching to a west coast offense? If you don't know WCO utilizes the TE awfully a lot.

Depends on the receiver. I'd love Rhodes though.

[In Luck We Trust]

That statement is extremely backwards! A good pass rush = Better Secondary

Prime Example? Cardinals vs Rams (Janoris Jenkins vs Larry Fitzgerald)

Jenkins looked like a shutdown CB due to Chris Long & his group of savages abusing Kolb. Honestly, what rookie really looks good against Fitzgerald?

I'll take a good pass rush. Might even make Vaughn look goo....... okay nevermind that's just wishful thinking

actually i think Jenkins would have been good regardless, just alot of people questioned his maturity. i wanted him in indy over fleener but either one i woulda been happy with. but if we would have drafted jenkins i dont think we would be talking about using first rounder on a DB but instead on someone like Eifert or Ertz.. 

[In Luck We Trust]

Depends on the receiver. I'd love Rhodes though.

id love to have hayden. 

[LAColt]

A good pass rush makes the job of the secondary easier.  A good pass rush makes the secondary look good.  It is not the other way around, and it is not they help each other.  On occasion you will get a coverage sack, in which the secondary did its job long enough to allow the pressure to get to the quarterback.  That is rare, and the general rule is the pass rush helps the secondary, not the other way.  You can have good players in the secondary, but if you don't have a pass rush, the secondary will still get exposed.  But if you have a good pass rush, you can have pretty average secondary and that secondary will look like its playing well.

[funktacious2]

I must confess... I don't share the disdain for Vaughn that most everyone else seems to share. I don't think he's shown enough to be a starter in this league, but he's a good tackler, and despite all the criticism he get's he's made some nice plays one the ball (he even had a pick six last season). If he could clean up his penalties, and not lose track of the ball on deep throws, I'd be happy to keep him around for back-up.

 

And as for picking up a cornerback in the draft I don't feel anyone cornerback available at the 24th will be worth it. Rhodes will almost certainly be gone. Trufant is barely a first round talent, and while I'm no talent scout, Banks has done nothing to impress me. So if we go cornerback in the draft, I hope it's in the later rounds. Last year had some great late round results. I would have loved to have gotten Casey Hayward or Dennard Robinson. Lastly, we play in a division with Arian Foster, Chris Johnson, MJD, etc... we were in the bottom 5 in rush defense and weren't even in the bottom 10 for pass defense. I'd don't think I buy that a CB is more important that some other defensive positions.

[BOTT]

things i have heard from cardinal fans when i went to AZ last week is that toller is over paid and overrated. he has had injuries to his legs the last two years with that torn ACL in 2011, then hamstring and ankle injuries last year although he played through it. im not sold on Toller, im hoping he will prove me wrong, but i dont see it happening. we need a CB especially with Vaughn waiting for either Toller or Butler to get hurt.

Please tell your opinion of Toler is not based on fans u talked to in AZ.

[TKnight24]

actually i think Jenkins would have been good regardless, just alot of people questioned his maturity. i wanted him in indy over fleener but either one i woulda been happy with. but if we would have drafted jenkins i dont think we would be talking about using first rounder on a DB but instead on someone like Eifert or Ertz..

You honestly believe that Larry Fitzgerald would've let a ROOKIE CB make him look bad?!

There's no way Jenkins keeps up with Fitz if the cardinals had a better QB & oline!

[Nobody]

things i have heard from cardinal fans when i went to AZ last week is that toller is over paid and overrated. he has had injuries to his legs the last two years with that torn ACL in 2011, then hamstring and ankle injuries last year although he played through it. im not sold on Toller, im hoping he will prove me wrong, but i dont see it happening. we need a CB especially with Vaughn waiting for either Toller or Butler to get hurt.

Yeah, Toller sucks. Glad we got Toler instead.

Can nobody spell his name right? Tolar, Toller, Tollar... It's T-O-L-E-R.

[BOTT]

Yeah, Toller sucks. Glad we got Toler instead.Can nobody spell his name right? Tolar, Toller, Tollar... It's T-O-L-E-R.

Yes, Evidently Nobody can

[MarquisJ]

If you are referring to his statement of poor DBs resulting in a poor pass rush, I think they work off each other.  Good pass rush = no time for the QB = forced throws = knockdowns/picks, but at the same time, good coverage = QB holds the ball longer since no targets are open = pass rushers get a sack

[Marcio James]

Yeah, Toller sucks. Glad we got Toler instead.Can nobody spell his name right? Tolar, Toller, Tollar... It's T-O-L-E-R.

I saw some theard "Tolber"

[notlucktyballard]

I agree, Vaughn was unable to make plays but he was usually in position to make a play (turn head ).  Vaughn is probably better suited to playing zone.  A good CB in mam to man coverage knows when to get his head around and make a play.  Several keys tell the CB when to get their head around and make a play on the ball.....receivers eyes getting bigger and hands raising are huge keys.  Also once a receiver is coming out of his break thats a good time to take a peak at the QB. 

 

It is so frustrating watching NFL players being paid big money and do not know the fundamentals of the position they play.

 

Several thoughts....

 

One,  bad cornerback play didn't lead to a worse pass rush.    We had both.     But 'A' didn't lead to 'B'....

 

Two,  before he was a coordinator, Pagano coached defensive backs.    If Vaughn was as bad as you think he is,  he would not be on the team.    But, as of now,  he is.

 

Defense is the strength of the draft....   there are lots and lots of good corners in this draft.    We don't have to spend a #1 on a corner to find a good one.

 

For those who want another position addressed....   we don't have to spend a #1 on a WR to find a good one.   We don't have to spend a #1 on a DE/OLB to find a good one.    We don't have to spend a #1 on a guard to find a good one.    There a good players all over this draft.

 

Grigson will find them.

[TMPHBITEU]

Yes I get the point, but a pass rush is more vital to a defense than cover guys. I doubt Tom Brady went into the SB thinking "oh no, I have to face Terrell Thomas"

 

Prove it.

[In Luck We Trust]

Please tell your opinion of Toler is not based on fans u talked to in AZ.

well sorry but there was not much highlights to look at on him. but like i said anything is an improvement over vaughn and if i had to choose, i would pick toler. but i still dont believe he is worth 5 million a year. and like i said on that, i hope he proves me wrong. 

[notlucktyballard]

Have you deleted anything from er signature?  Is that where you post "I will delete"

CB our biggest need?

[NewColtsFan]

I don't want to give anyone the wrong impression that I think Vaughn is a lock to make this team.    Because I don't think that at all.

 

I think his job is 'iffy' at best...    and,  if we do take another CB in the draft,  that hurts Vaugn's chances even more....

 

But, even if we do take another corner in the draft, I'd expect Vaughn to last through training camp until the roster cut down dates before we'd severe our ties...

 

You don't want to cut someone loose before you know whether you need him or not....   and as horrifying as it may seem to some here,  depending on injuries and/or performance,  we may still need Vaughn somewhere down the road...

 

Or,  if things go our way....     not.    And we'd part company....

 

Hope that clarifies....

[LockeDown]

I think T.O.L.E.R will be fine. CB isn't a need now, it's a want. It's a good bet we get one but not at 24 I don't think.

[Colts_Fan12]

I think T.O.L.E.R will be fine. CB isn't a need now, it's a want. It's a good bet we get one but not at 24 I don't think.

Yep I don't see us getting one at #24 me personally I want to go WR Cause the best guards will be gone so to fill that we can get one later in the draft