Smonroe

Pagano - 11th Best Coach in the NFL

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I can see it. As much as the fan base seems to hate him for only going 8-8 last season, he is one of those coaches who you just want to play for due to his character.

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Yeah,  I can see it as well.  Back to back 8-8 seasons and with all the circumstances surrounding those seasons  is pretty remarkable really.  The players really play hard for him, no question.  Hopefully CB finds him better players to work with and he's off to a great start IMO. 

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Next year, I want the Pagano haters to find me a better, available coach... just to see the results we get. If anyone says Marvin Lewis.... I'm just done.

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29 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I know right!!!!!!! hahahahahahahahalmaolmaolmaolmao

What coaches have a better winning percentage over the last 5 years?

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2 minutes ago, ColtsBlitz said:

Next year, I want the Pagano haters to find me a better, available coach... just to see the results we get. If anyone says Marvin Lewis.... I'm just done.

That's the trick now isn't it?  Too many Indy fans suffer from "the grass is always greener" syndrome.  The problem not only is finding a better coach, but if you do replace him, will the next "sure fire" candidate actually be better?

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4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

What coaches have a better winning percentage over the last 5 years?

I'm not doing this again. 

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5 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I'm not doing this again. 

Why ?  Because there isn't 11 coaches with a better winning percentage?

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10 minutes ago, ColtsBlitz said:

Next year, I want the Pagano haters to find me a better, available coach... just to see the results we get. If anyone says Marvin Lewis.... I'm just done.

 

Sean Payton, of course.  He has experience working with an elite QB, a great offense and porous defenses.

 

Pay no attention to his 7-9 record the last three years.  We'll think of better excuses.

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24 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

What coaches have a better winning percentage over the last 5 years?

Ron Meeks winning percentage as a DC was really good too. Just saying..

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you know he's not a BAD coach per se, he's just not  great coach. But he's also somewhat inexperienced compared to the others listed above him. Not saying he'll ever be on their level, but there's much worse out there.

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4 minutes ago, MPStack said:

Ron Meeks winning percentage as a DC was really good too. Just saying..

Dc isn't head coach

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4 minutes ago, PeterBowman said:

you know he's not a BAD coach per se, he's just not  great coach. But he's also somewhat inexperienced compared to the others listed above him. Not saying he'll ever be on their level, but there's much worse out there.

Not to mention that he lacked a full compliment of quality players

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19 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Dc isn't head coach

Often DCs and OCs are better qualified

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Pagano that high isn't too out there, I'd put him at around 15 or so though.

This post reminded me. I really, really thought we were going to fire Pagano and hire Gase last offseason. I thought it made too much sense. Dolphins got a potentially great coach.

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2 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Often DCs and OCs are often better qualified

 Yep, one is in Arizona now.

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46 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Why ?  Because there isn't 11 coaches with a better winning percentage?

I've already told you Andrew Luck and our worthless division at the time skew Chucks winning percentage.

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25 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Pagano that high isn't too out there, I'd put him at around 15 or so though.

This post reminded me. I really, really thought we were going to fire Pagano and hire Gase last offseason. I thought it made too much sense. Dolphins got a potentially great coach.

We should have luck would be winning MVPs 

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16 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I've already told you Andrew Luck and our worthless division at the time skew Chucks winning percentage.

 

Didn't have Luck much in 15, and the lack of talent should balance out that argument.

 

I often wonder how any of those other coaches would have fared with our roster.

 

This season is going to be the decision point.  Every team in the division has improved (well, maybe not the Texans but they were already good).  I don't think Chuck gets in on Ballard's honeymoon period.

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1 minute ago, Smonroe said:

 

Didn't have Luck much in 15, and the lack of talent should balance out that argument.

 

I often wonder how any of those other coaches would have fared with our roster.

 

This season is going to be the decision point.  Every team in the division has improved (well, maybe not the Texans but they were already good).  I don't think Chuck gets in on Ballard's honeymoon period.

I just hate the black and white argument that is winning percentage. When your division is a cakewalk for your first 4 years yeah you will have a higher percentage then say someone in the AFC North 

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2 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

And they have done what?

Represented the NFC in the 2015 SB. Next question?

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5 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I just hate the black and white argument that is winning percentage. When your division is a cakewalk for your first 4 years yeah you will have a higher percentage then say someone in the AFC North 

 

And I (and I'm sure many others) hate the notion of completely disregarding the winning percentage due to having Luck and being in the AFC South.  the 2015 season completely invalidates the "only because of Luck" argument, and as far as the schedule, I'm sorry the scheduling committee didn't include tougher teams on the colts schedule but it is what it is.  Considering Pagano & co. beat teams like San Fran, Denver and Seattle when they were dominating at least calls into question the stated opinions that Chuck's record would be far worse in a different division.  No one knows that. 

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5 minutes ago, MPStack said:

Represented the NFC in the 2015 SB. Next question?

 

BTW, Chuck's team represented the AFC in the championship game (only one game away from the SB) the year before and did so with a far inferior roster.

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1 hour ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Not to mention that he lacked a full compliment of quality players

Why do all the pagano supporters give him a pass on his own player aquisition and development. He is not a bad coach but many say he was not giving quality players. As if, any head coaches in the NFL do not have tons of roster control. He is mediocre. IMO his 3-4 is bland and predictable. He also has made poor scheme decisions for the talent he aquired. Grigson has become his scapegoat. I hope he succeeds as a colts fan. If anything Luck will just "will" this team to wins easier with this improved roster.

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1 minute ago, life long said:

Why do all the pagano supporters give him a pass on his own player aquisition and development. He is not a bad coach but many say he was not giving quality players. As if, any head coaches in the NFL do not have tons of roster control. He is mediocre. IMO his 3-4 is bland and predictable. He also has made poor scheme decisions for the talent he aquired. Grigson has become his scapegoat. I hope he succeeds as a colts fan. If anything Luck will just "will" this team to wins easier with this improved roster.

 

Because player acquisition wasn't part of his job.  It was Grigson's job.  Sure, Pagano had input as all coaches do, but we have no idea specifically which players pagano wanted and which ones Grigson said "too bad, I'm taking this guy".

 

In terms of player development, what do you call getting decent starter performance out of guys like Rashaan Melvin and Edwin Jackson?  What do you call helping guys like Darius Butler and Vontae Davis turn their careers around?  Getting quality play from guys like Jack Doyle and TY McGill.  Even Kerr performed better than you typically get from an UDFA.  These are just a few examples off the top of my head. 

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3 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

And I (and I'm sure many others) hate the notion of completely disregarding the winning percentage due to having Luck and being in the AFC South.  the 2015 season completely invalidates the "only because of Luck" argument, and as far as the schedule, I'm sorry the scheduling committee didn't include tougher teams on the colts schedule but it is what it is.  Considering Pagano & co. beat teams like San Fran, Denver and Seattle when they were dominating at least calls into question the stated opinions that Chuck's record would be far worse in a different division.  No one knows that. 

That's the thing we would beat teams like San Fran, Denver, and Seattle one week then we would turn around and be blown out by teams like the Rams, Bills, and Jets the following week. I don't think he is the worst coach in the NFL but he can certainly coach dumb and be predictable to many times, especially after a big win.

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2 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

Because player acquisition wasn't part of his job.  It was Grigson's job.  Sure, Pagano had input as all coaches do, but we have no idea specifically which players pagano wanted and which ones Grigson said "too bad, I'm taking this guy".

 

In terms of player development, what do you call getting decent starter performance out of guys like Rashaan Melvin and Edwin Jackson?  What do you call helping guys like Darius Butler and Vontae Davis turn their careers around?  Getting quality play from guys like Jack Doyle and TY McGill.  Even Kerr performed better than you typically get from an UDFA.  These are just a few examples off the top of my head. 

I always felt that with RG/CP that our roster was the bottom of the league, especially on D and with our O-line. We would be playing with rotational guys or second/third string players as starters at the start of the season versus waiting for injuries for these players making an appearance, with the last two seasons being the worst. With the turnover of midlevel FA idk if this is gonna change this season but I think the quality of the players acquired is far better then what RG ever put on the table for CP, and I defiantly think that the D will be huge overall improvement which should hopefully increase the number of games we win next season and make it to the playoffs again.

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20 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

Because player acquisition wasn't part of his job.  It was Grigson's job.  Sure, Pagano had input as all coaches do, but we have no idea specifically which players pagano wanted and which ones Grigson said "too bad, I'm taking this guy".

 

In terms of player development, what do you call getting decent starter performance out of guys like Rashaan Melvin and Edwin Jackson?  What do you call helping guys like Darius Butler and Vontae Davis turn their careers around?  Getting quality play from guys like Jack Doyle and TY McGill.  Even Kerr performed better than you typically get from an UDFA.  These are just a few examples off the top of my head. 

The same defensive players had just turned in the worst defense in colts history. You are right, he did turn their careers around. To be serious though, i like a lot of the young guys we have on D. I think we will do well this year. Oddly enough i am more optimistic than paganos supporters. 

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32 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

And I (and I'm sure many others) hate the notion of completely disregarding the winning percentage due to having Luck and being in the AFC South.  the 2015 season completely invalidates the "only because of Luck" argument, and as far as the schedule, I'm sorry the scheduling committee didn't include tougher teams on the colts schedule but it is what it is.  Considering Pagano & co. beat teams like San Fran, Denver and Seattle when they were dominating at least calls into question the stated opinions that Chuck's record would be far worse in a different division.  No one knows that. 

Then turn around and get blown out by the rams he's a good coach 

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1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Then turn around and get blown out by the rams he's a good coach 

People will only turn on Pagano and figure out he's a bad coach when they are "allowed too" and he is fired or released, just like the same with Grigson. It's the same misguided loyalty where a portion of the fanbase wouldn't dare talk bad about someone as long as they are a Colt, and they throw facts out the window. There's no convincing them. The best we can hope for is Ballard improves the team enough to be contenders in 2018, because it certainly won't be this year with Pagano as Coach, unless he magically turns a 180.

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I like Chuck, I always have.  I think the players enjoy playing for him and I think he'll continue to get better with more and more experience.  My opinion really hasn't changed to much.  I think Grigson was the problem.  If the Colts draft well and are terrible the next few years, maybe I'll change my opinion.  I really don't think there are many qualified/winning coaches available for the taking right now who would also want to come to the Colts. 

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1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

People will only turn on Pagano and figure out he's a bad coach when they are "allowed too" and he is fired or released, just like the same with Grigson. It's the same misguided loyalty where a portion of the fanbase wouldn't dare talk bad about someone as long as they are a Colt, and they throw facts out the window. There's no convincing them. The best we can hope for is Ballard improves the team enough to be contenders in 2018, because it certainly won't be this year with Pagano as Coach, unless he magically turns a 180.

You are right most will not admit that the Colts are held back by certain people like pagano 

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3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

People will only turn on Pagano and figure out he's a bad coach when they are "allowed too" and he is fired or released, just like the same with Grigson. It's the same misguided loyalty where a portion of the fanbase wouldn't dare talk bad about someone as long as they are a Colt, and they throw facts out the window. There's no convincing them. The best we can hope for is Ballard improves the team enough to be contenders in 2018, because it certainly won't be this year with Pagano as Coach, unless he magically turns a 180.

Another big problem with our fan base is they fear change. They are so scared to change coaches because "we could always get worse" so unless it's a Superbowl winning head coach they would rather keep chuck and his stupid actions. 

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I think Pags is a great person. We can debate that he's a great coach until the cows come home. 

 

I guess at the end of this season is where the true test will be since he's finally rid of the dead weight of Griggles. I'd love to eat crow if Pags turns this team around under Ballard's watch. Maybe it was Griggles that was the problem the entire time.....maybe it wasn't. We shall see. 

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