Giving Grigson his Due

[southwest1]

Nah. If he didn't have Luck he'd be fired by now. Roster is awful and he's wasted two first round picks.

A franchise QB doesn't always guarantee head coaching job security either Dustin. John Fox had Peyton Manning in Denver & that coach is in Chicago right now. 

 

I get what your driving at but, Grigson has brought in some decent players, but I will concede that Ryan must take pressure off of Luck on defense & run the ball more to avoid any additional sacks on Andrew. 

[crazycolt1]

If FOX, ESPN, and NFLN says the Colts have a good roster, then yes, they are wrong.

Then explain how the Colts won the division and made it to the AFC championship game. If the roster was as bad as you make it out to be that would not have happened. I have news for you. Luck did not get those 11 wins all by himself.

[Dustin]

Then explain how the Colts won the division and made it to the AFC championship game. 

 

Elite QB + bad division + playing above talent level because of good coaching (well, more oft than not) 

[southwest1]

Elite QB + bad division + playing above talent level because of good coaching (well, more oft than not) 

Just to play devil's advocate, if Grigs was the GM for say Seattle with the same number of wins in the NFC West over a 3 year span would you still give 90% of the credit to QB RW? 

 

The level of competition argument is weak because you still have to lineup & play & if Grigs is so awful why do so many GMs pick up guys on wavers we release so often before the final 53 man roster is made?

 

The QB alone doesn't single handedly carry a team to a SB. Other dudes do contribute along the way & an elite QB on their back won't win any Championships either.  

 

If you wanna talk about a lack of coaching adjustments that's on Pagano not Grigs who just brings in the bodies like an assembly line. Landry sucked & Richardson sucked, but Freeman & Hilton had their shining moments. And at least WR DHB & Nicks were just short term deals. Bradshaw performed nicely prior to getting hurt too. 

[crazycolt1]

Elite QB + bad division + playing above talent level because of good coaching (well, more oft than not) 

You are ridiculous.

[Dustin]

Just to play devil's advocate, if Grigs was the GM for say Seattle with the same number of wins in the NFC West over a 3 year span would you still give 90% of the credit to QB RW? 

 

No, because Seattle is reliant on it's defense and running game. If Grigson put together the roster that Seattle has now, he'd be a good GM, but so far, he hasn't shown the ability too. 

 

The level of competition argument is weak because you still have to lineup & play & if Grigs is so awful why do so many GMs pick up guys on wavers we release so often before the final 53 man roster is made?

 

 

This isn't necessarily a good thing. It means that other GMs likely have a higher opinion of player Grigson deems not roster worthy. I really can't think of anyone that's been cut by the Colts since 2012 that's gone on to do anything of note.

[southwest1]

No, because Seattle is reliant on it's defense and running game. If Grigson put together the roster that Seattle has now, he'd be a good GM, but so far, he hasn't shown the ability too. 

 

 

This isn't necessarily a good thing. It means that other GMs likely have a higher opinion of player Grigson deems not roster worthy. I really can't think of anyone that's been cut by the Colts since 2012 that's gone on to do anything of note.

True, Lynch is that primary bell cow I will admit, but Pete Carroll picking up TE Jimmy Graham tells me that Lynch isn't enough in the red zone anymore. You don't do that if everything is fine & dandy IMHO. 

 

Yes other GMs might be giving Grigs too much credit or maybe you're being just a tad bit too critical of Ryan overall. Plus, we as an audience don't really know how much latitude Irsay is giving him in FA or the draft either. That's not just a money question; it's a jurisdictional, creative freedom question. Translation: We have no idea how much oversight authority Jimmy exercises with each new Colts addition privately behind closed doors either. 

 

My hypothetical question has nothing to do with roster construction Dustin. I asked you point blank if Grigs was in the NFC West with multiple seasons of 11 wins & reaching the Championship Game this year would you classify that winning record as indicative of a GM who knows what the hades he is doing? Yes or no? 

 

I know your answer. It's a rhetorical question. Grigs is an abysmal GM in your view that needs to be replaced immediately right? I love ya man, but you have hater blinders on when it comes to Grigs. It's readily apparent. 

 

In 2011, no GMs were looking at any of our training camp guys but since Grigs got to INDY in 2012, players we brought in are being picked up by other clubs. It's not a reflection on Grigs if the guys we reject don't make the cut on another team. It just means other NFL front offices are paying attention to what we do & that's why it really matters & Grigs deserves some credit for that. 

[BlueShoe]

Elite QB + bad division + playing above talent level because of good coaching (well, more oft than not)

Dustin, that is the truth most Colts fans will never admit.

All truths. We are winning a lot of games because:

1. We have an elite QB.

2. We play in a very weak division.

3. More often than not, our coaches are better than our opponents.

Getting a fan to admit all of those 3 will be hard to do, but it's the absolute truth.

I am disappointed in our front office for not going all in with Pagano. It is a very bad idea for us to leave Chuck as a lame coach this year. It doesn't send the right message to the team, the fans, or to the coaching staff. Jim Irsay is playing with fire right now.

[Dark Superman]

I like Grigson, I just really believe he outthinks himself way too often.

Taking project players (Werner) with 1st round picks

Trading 1st round picks for RB's whreally are a dime a dozen now

Keeping players who aren't benefiting the team at all on the roster (Landry, Cribbs, Etc)

But other than that, he's done wonderful with building the roster. I just want him more aggressive in the decision making on this team. Like how Pagano and co. bench players or something, Grigson should overrule them if he feels the player shouldn't be benched or something

We cut Landry months ago.

[BlueShoe]

You are ridiculous.

 

None of the 3 reasons Dustin gave is ridiculous. He spoke the absolute truth. 

 

Might be hard to stomach, the truth, but he is calling it exactly the way it is.

[TKnight24]

We cut Landry months ago.

All of that and you get that? We kept Landry longer than we should have. He got himself cut due to the suspensions and all

[CR91]

My god you fans are spoiled brats.

[Dustin]

My god you fans are spoiled brats.

 

Spoiled with QB play, not roster management. 

[CR91]

Spoiled with QB play, not roster management.

We have a probowl QB, wr, cb, should be probowl LT, dynamic TEs, two premier pass rushers, an up and coming star pass rusher, a LB with over 450 tackles in three season in freeman, and one of the best STs in the league. Yea real bad management. You can't have superstars everywhere on your team. This isn't madden.

[crazycolt1]

None of the 3 reasons Dustin gave is ridiculous. He spoke the absolute truth. 

 

Might be hard to stomach, the truth, but he is calling it exactly the way it is.

You are ridiculous as well. There is no way a team can win as many games as the Colts have without the job that Grigson has done. Period. Has he made some bad calls? Yes. But name me one GM in the NFL that hits on every pick, trade or signing. That GM does not exist in the NFL. In three seasons Grigson has put together a team that a lot thinks will make the AFC championship game again and maybe a super bowl. That may be a pipe dream but the Colts are not that far off no matter what you or anyone else thinks. There are at least 25 other teams in the NFL that only wished their roster was as good as the Colts.

[Dustin]

You are ridiculous as well. There is no way a team can win as many games as the Colts have without the job that Grigson has done. Period. Has he made some bad calls? Yes. But name me one GM in the NFL that hits on every pick, trade or signing. That GM does not exist in the NFL. In three seasons Grigson has put together a team that a lot thinks will make the AFC championship game again and maybe a super bowl. That may be a pipe dream but the Colts are not that far off no matter what you or anyone else thinks. There are at least 25 other teams in the NFL that only wished their roster was as good as the Colts.

Lol no there isn't.

[crazycolt1]

Just to play devil's advocate, if Grigs was the GM for say Seattle with the same number of wins in the NFC West over a 3 year span would you still give 90% of the credit to QB RW? 

 

The level of competition argument is weak because you still have to lineup & play & if Grigs is so awful why do so many GMs pick up guys on wavers we release so often before the final 53 man roster is made?

 

The QB alone doesn't single handedly carry a team to a SB. Other dudes do contribute along the way & an elite QB on their back won't win any Championships either.  

 

If you wanna talk about a lack of coaching adjustments that's on Pagano not Grigs who just brings in the bodies like an assembly line. Landry sucked & Richardson sucked, but Freeman & Hilton had their shining moments. And at least WR DHB & Nicks were just short term deals. Bradshaw performed nicely prior to getting hurt too. 

I think this guy just makes comments to get a negative vibe going. Much the same thing that some Patriot fans do when making borderline comments. IMO he is a closet Patriot fans who really don't have anything positive to say about the Colts. He lacks the ability to debate or discuss any subject with any thought what so ever. He should consider changing his name to Colt troll.

[crazycolt1]

Lol no there isn't.

I am done with giving you the time of day. IMO you are nothing but a troll.

[Dustin]

I am done with giving you the time of day. IMO you are nothing but a troll.

 

You got me. 

[Dustin]

We have a probowl QB, wr, cb, should be probowl LT, dynamic TEs, two premier pass rushers, an up and coming star pass rusher, a LB with over 450 tackles in three season in freeman, and one of the best STs in the league. Yea real bad management. You can't have superstars everywhere on your team. This isn't madden.

 

Mathis, Costanzo, McAfee, and Vinny are Polian guys. Freeman is bad. 

 

Everything else (aside from Newsome) is from his very good 2012 offseason.

 

2013 off-season was awful. FA and the draft was a total colossal failure that probably set us back a year.  Not a single impact player. Just a bunch of jags and a overpaid tackle with a degenerative knee injury.

 

2014 draft was better. But he wasted yet another first round pick. FA was awful as well. Jones was awful every time he stepped onto the field, D'Qwell was a liability every game, Nicks was basically invisible. Adams was a good signing, but he wan't even a planned starter until Howell got injured. 

 

Has there ever been a GM who's wasted two first round picks and not been rumored to be on the hot seat?

[Dustin]

I think this guy just makes comments to get a negative vibe going. Much the same thing that some Patriot fans do when making borderline comments. IMO he is a closet Patriot fans who really don't have anything positive to say about the Colts. He lacks the ability to debate or discuss any subject with any thought what so ever. He should consider changing his name to Colt troll.

 

Your preference for ad hominems speaks largely to your intelligence (or lack thereof) and makes this statement: "lacks the ability to debate or discuss any subject with any thought what so ever" highly ironic

[BlueShoe]

You are ridiculous as well. There is no way a team can win as many games as the Colts have without the job that Grigson has done. Period. Has he made some bad calls? Yes. But name me one GM in the NFL that hits on every pick, trade or signing. That GM does not exist in the NFL. In three seasons Grigson has put together a team that a lot thinks will make the AFC championship game again and maybe a super bowl. That may be a pipe dream but the Colts are not that far off no matter what you or anyone else thinks. There are at least 25 other teams in the NFL that only wished their roster was as good as the Colts.

 

The only player all of the other 31 teams wants is Andrew Luck. He would be the starter on any NFL team.

 

Yes. He is that good. Andrew, the weak division we are in, along with our current coaching staff is what's carrying us.

 

It is that simple man.

[NewColtsFan]

Mathis, Costanzo, McAfee, and Vinny are Polian guys. Freeman is bad. 

 

Everything else (aside from Newsome) is from his very good 2012 offseason.

 

2013 off-season was awful. FA and the draft was a total colossal failure that probably set us back a year.  Not a single impact player. Just a bunch of jags and a overpaid tackle with a degenerative knee injury.

 

2014 draft was better. But he wasted yet another first round pick. FA was awful as well. Jones was awful every time he stepped onto the field, D'Qwell was a liability every game, Nicks was basically invisible. Adams was a good signing, but he wan't even a planned starter until Howell got injured. 

 

Has there ever been a GM who's wasted two first round picks and not been rumored to be on the hot seat?

 

Yes.....   a GM whose team has gone 11-5 in each of his first three years and further in the playoffs each season.

 

As to your other observations.....    very selective.....

 

Freeman is terrible?     That's news.....

 

DQwell was a liability?     In pass coverage.   But otherwise, among the league leader in tackles.

 

Jones was terrible?    Jones was injured most of the season.     And of course,  you know this.   But you won't acknowledge this because it under-cuts your argument.

 

Like I said.....    selective....

[Dustin]

Freeman is terrible?     That's news.....

 

An ILB who can't stack or shed blocks is very bad, yes.

 

 

DQwell was a liability?     In pass coverage.   But otherwise, among the league leader in tackles.

 

Which means nothing because tackles are the most meaningless stat in football. Congrats to him. He tackled the TE he just gave up a 15 yard catch too. 

 

Read this: http://vikingsterritory.com/2014/analysis/minnesota-vikings-chad-greenway-has-been-bad-at-football-for-three-years

 

Jones was terrible?    Jones was injured most of the season.     And of course,  you know this.   But you won't acknowledge this because it under-cuts your argument.

 

Yes he was. A total non-factor when ever he stepped on the field. 

[NewColtsFan]

An ILB who can't stack or shed blocks is very bad, yes.

 

 

Which means nothing because tackles are the most meaningless stat in football. Congrats to him. He tackled the TE he just gave up a 15 yard catch too. 

 

Read this: http://vikingsterritory.com/2014/analysis/minnesota-vikings-chad-greenway-has-been-bad-at-football-for-three-years

 

 

Yes he was. A total non-factor when ever he stepped on the field. 

 

Such a non-factor.....

 

I guess you missed the stat that Mike Wells of ESPN.com posted that I shared here some weeks back....

 

Showed that when Jones was on the field,  the Colts gave up nearly 1-full yard less per carry than when he was off the field.

 

How is it that me,  who is not much of a stat guy,  knows this, but you the Stat King -- doesn't?

 

Could it be because it blows up your ridiculous position?

[Dustin]

 

Showed that when Jones was on the field,  the Colts gave up nearly 1-full yard less per carry than when he was off the field.

 

How is it that me,  who is not much of a stat guy,  knows this, but you the Stat King -- doesn't?

 

 

Correlation =/= causation. Jones gets taken off the field in nickel situations where it's much easier to run against the front seven. 

[Gavin]

An ILB who can't stack or shed blocks is very bad, yes.

 

 

Which means nothing because tackles are the most meaningless stat in football. Congrats to him. He tackled the TE he just gave up a 15 yard catch too. 

 

Read this: http://vikingsterritory.com/2014/analysis/minnesota-vikings-chad-greenway-has-been-bad-at-football-for-three-years

 

 

Yes he was. A total non-factor when ever he stepped on the field. 

There are plenty of ILB's that don't shed blocks well that are good I think, Freeman was a playmaker before injury

[Dustin]

There are plenty of ILB's that don't shed blocks well that are good I think

 

Yes, if they're LBers in a 4-3. Not a Mike in a defense that makes you take on guards and lead blockers in a confined space frequently.

 

Freeman is a decent player you get when you don't have many resources, but he should have been replaced by now or at least regulated to a nickel-lb role. 

[NewColtsFan]

Yes, if they're LBers in a 4-3. Not a Mike in a defense that makes you take on guards and lead blockers in a confined space frequently.

 

Freeman is a decent player you get when you don't have many resources, but he should have been replaced by now or at least regulated to a nickel-lb role. 

 

Freeman isn't the Mike.

 

DQJ is.....

 

Unless I'm somehow misunderstanding you?

[Dustin]

Freeman isn't the Mike.

DQJ is.....

Unless I'm somehow misunderstanding you?

Alternate a lot. I was just using it as a broad term for an ILB.

[GoColts8818]

The only people who think Andrew Luck is the only reason we've had any success over the past three years are the ones who work very hard to see it that way.

[NewColtsFan]

The only people who think Andrew Luck is the only reason we've had any success over the past three years are the ones who work very hard to see it that way.

 

Thank you......

 

Thank you, very much!             

[Gavin]

Yes, if they're LBers in a 4-3. Not a Mike in a defense that makes you take on guards and lead blockers in a confined space frequently.

 

Freeman is a decent player you get when you don't have many resources, but he should have been replaced by now or at least regulated to a nickel-lb role. 

Right, I think your still underselling the impact Freeman has made when healthy. He's had 8 forced fumbles in 44 games played with  3 picks, 9 sacks. That's .5 sack, 1 pick less in Freemans first 44 games then Ray Lewis and that's with Freeman who clearly was not 100 percent the majority of last year(His production don't dip as far as it did if he is healthy), Freeman also has 14 more passes defensed than Lewis did his first 6 years, I agree he don't shed blocks well but the dude is a playmaker when healthy

[amfootball]

An ILB who can't stack or shed blocks is very bad, yes.

 

 

Which means nothing because tackles are the most meaningless stat in football. Congrats to him. He tackled the TE he just gave up a 15 yard catch too. 

 

Read this: http://vikingsterritory.com/2014/analysis/minnesota-vikings-chad-greenway-has-been-bad-at-football-for-three-years

 

 

Yes he was. A total non-factor when ever he stepped on the field. 

That article on why tackles are not a good stat was a great read. Thanks for posting. I have always felt like it was an overrated stat that didn't measure much and that writer did a great job of breaking it down. When Jerod Mayo replaced Bruschi I felt there was a drop off in the type of big plays that Tedy used to make over the middle vs Jerod yet everyone would always quote Jerod's tackles to me and it would infuriate me as I was not able to articulate the drop off I saw in the two players. Don't get me wrong, I think Jerod is a great player but as good as he is has only made me appreciate Tedy more.

[CR91]

Mathis, Costanzo, McAfee, and Vinny are Polian guys. Freeman is bad. 

 

Everything else (aside from Newsome) is from his very good 2012 offseason.

 

2013 off-season was awful. FA and the draft was a total colossal failure that probably set us back a year.  Not a single impact player. Just a bunch of jags and a overpaid tackle with a degenerative knee injury.

 

2014 draft was better. But he wasted yet another first round pick. FA was awful as well. Jones was awful every time he stepped onto the field, D'Qwell was a liability every game, Nicks was basically invisible. Adams was a good signing, but he wan't even a planned starter until Howell got injured. 

 

Has there ever been a GM who's wasted two first round picks and not been rumored to be on the hot seat?

Polian also left us wasted money contracts for JAG players like addai Brackett Clark and Hayden. That so called awful 2013 season almost got us to afc championship game if it wasn't for some bad no calls like luck getting tripped. 2014 season we resigned one of the best CBs for basically peanuts , found us a pro bowl LB and S, and if you actually looked at the stats Jones improved our YPC given up by a whole yard

[BOTT]

I agree !! But there was a lot of people saying RG3 was better before the draft and even after the rookie year. I am glad Grigson wasn't the fool.

A lot? More like very few

[ztboiler]

Correlation =/= causation. Jones gets taken off the field in nickel situations where it's much easier to run against the front seven. 

Not in specific reference to this quote...just an entry point to make a comment.

 

Methinks you are auditioning for the Skip Bayless role one day....seriously.

 

Immersed in sports, lots of knowledge, strong communication foundation, and willing to marginalize it all to get negative attention/click bait.  That is the Skip Bayless formula.  You are off to a good start.

[Warhorse]

The idea that Grigson has not done a great job is so laughable on so many levels, it removes the opportunity to even discuss it. IMO, he is not at a make or break year, he has not been carried by the selection of Luck, and he has done a stellar job of finding back of the draft and FA talent. 

 

I wonder how many of those who are throwing him under the bus or seriously doubting his future now, were also throwing him under the bus for trading up to get Hilton...

 

I love the NFL draft....but I hate how it turns fans into armchair GM's who prejudge before it's due, and who use revisionist history as a bully pulpit to vent negativity.

[Superman]

Has there ever been a GM who's wasted two first round picks and not been rumored to be on the hot seat?

 

Yes.

[RockThatBlue]

The idea that Grigson has not done a great job is so laughable on so many levels, it removes the opportunity to even discuss it. IMO, he is not at a make or break year, he has not been carried by the selection of Luck, and he has done a stellar job of finding back of the draft and FA talent.

I wonder how many of those who are throwing him under the bus or seriously doubting his future now, were also throwing him under the bus for trading up to get Hilton...

I love the NFL draft....but I hate how it turns fans into armchair GM's who prejudge before it's due, and who use revisionist history as a bully pulpit to vent negativity.

I agree. I haven't agreed with every move Grigson has made, but the hate for him is beyond stupid.