Refs in the Dolphins game [Merge]

[Jason_]

Most don't...the vast majority do not get set for a full second or even close and it's never called. Trust me, I looked. Feel free to find a similar call. Mike Pereira is full of it.

!!!!

 

Pereira made point to mention that Wayne also was not set prior to going in motion.  Most players do get set before going in motion.  What I got from it is the player has to be set before going in motion, or after going in motion and Wayne did neither which is why it was a penalty.  

[BOTT]

Pereira made point to mention that Wayne also was not set prior to going in motion.  Most players do get set before going in motion.  What I got from it is the player has to be set before going in motion, or after going in motion and Wayne did neither which is why it was a penalty.

The ref said the flag was for all 11 men not being set before the snap, by nfl standards Wayne most certainly was.

[Jason_]

The ref said the flag was for all 11 men not being set before the snap, by nfl standards Wayne most certainly was.

 

That's great, I was passing along what Pereira said.  Would this really be the first time a ref on the field wrongly explained a call?

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I wouldn't be surprised if those refs don't have a sit down. That illegal shift call was horrible, Reggie does this motion all the time and stops right before the ball is hiked. The refs were trying to say Reggie was still sliding, which cost us a TD and maybe the game.

Maybe the Dolphins pointed it out to the officials, because something almost meaningless as that is not usually called.

[Jason_]

Maybe the Dolphins pointed it out to the officials, because something almost meaningless as that is not usually called.

 

that very well could be and I agree, it's not a call you see very often and there were several more egregious penalties that were not called, like the pass interference on Fleener in the first quarter.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

that very well could be and I agree, it's not a call you see very often and there were several more egregious penalties that were not called, like the pass interference on Fleener in the first quarter.

They mugged our receivers all game, honestly the first 2 weeks it seems to me the officials are not calling interference as closely as the past few years.

[Jason_]

Have any video evidence of that ball "clearly" touching the ground?  They showed several angles and though the ball is shown loose, I never seen it in contact with the ground.

 

The defender punched the ball out of Jones' hand as he was going to the ground.  The ball hit the ground and then Jones fell on top of it.  It was only in the very last replay where it was clearly shown.  And yes I do have video evidence on my DVR. ;)

[Jason_]

That's great, I was passing along what Pereira said.  Would this really be the first time a ref on the field wrongly explained a call?

 

It wasn't even explained incorrectly.  The ref was correct.  All 11 players were not set because one of the players, Wayne, never got set...before going in motion nor after.  Ed Hochuli is probably the only ref that would have gone into full detail.  

[BOTT]

It wasn't even explained incorrectly.  The ref was correct.  All 11 players were not set because one of the players, Wayne, never got set...before going in motion nor after.  Ed Hochuli is probably the only ref that would have gone into full detail.

Since Rwggie was the only one in motion, I'm not sure he had to be set for a full second after going in motion. And the ref could have easily said "player did not set prior to going in motion....if that was indeed the call.

[Jason_]

Since Rwggie was the only one in motion, I'm not sure he had to be set for a full second after going in motion. And the ref could have easily said "player did not set prior to going in motion....if that was indeed the call.

 

He needed to be set for a full second either before going in motion (which he wasn't) or after he was finished being in motion (again, he didn't).  All 11 players have to be set for one full second before the snap of the ball so it can be either before or after motion.  In rewatching, I couldn't tell if Luck could see that Reggie had not fully set before his motion, but it was Luck who first put him in motion from wide right to the right hashmark, which is where Reggie began to get set but Luck motioned him again to move to the left side of the formation.  Reggie then continued to the left side and settled at the left hashmark and had just turned towards the LOS when Luck called for the ball.  

 

99% of the time when I see a player go in motion, they are set for the full second before going in motion.  Luck may have assumed that Reggie was set for that full second before moving and that's why he didn't wait for Reggie to get set after the motion even though there were still 6 or 7 seconds on the play clock.  It was also difficult to tell whether it was a planned pre-snap motion, whether Reggie went to line up at the wrong spot and Luck was telling him where the correct spot was, or if Luck saw something about the defense that made him decide the play would work better with Reggie on the left side instead of the right.  

[BOTT]

He needed to be set for a full second either before going in motion (which he wasn't) or after he was finished being in motion (again, he didn't). All 11 players have to be set for one full second before the snap of the ball so it can be either before or after motion. In rewatching, I couldn't tell if Luck could see that Reggie had not fully set before his motion, but it was Luck who first put him in motion from wide right to the right hashmark, which is where Reggie began to get set but Luck motioned him again to move to the left side of the formation. Reggie then continued to the left side and settled at the left hashmark and had just turned towards the LOS when Luck called for the ball.

99% of the time when I see a player go in motion, they are set for the full second before going in motion. Luck may have assumed that Reggie was set for that full second before moving and that's why he didn't wait for Reggie to get set after the motion even though there were still 6 or 7 seconds on the play clock. It was also difficult to tell whether it was a planned pre-snap motion, whether Reggie went to line up at the wrong spot and Luck was telling him where the correct spot was, or if Luck saw something about the defense that made him decide the play would work better with Reggie on the left side instead of the right.

Ok, but they never call illegal shift for not setting for a full second after going in motion. Players do this consistently in every game I watched. But as you pointed out, that could be a different matter when being set before going into motion....as I didn't look for that, thinking the call was after he went in motion.

[indy1888]

It's hard to see how many missed calls there are when you are sitting in the 600's at Lucas Oil.  But after seeing some of the video and pics at various forums, it's amazing at how pathetic those refs were on Sunday.  Whalen was blatantly mugged clear across the field on 3rd down on that final series and couldn't draw a flag.  I also heard Reggie was grabbed on the INT in the endzone.   The refs in the first game weren't very good either.  Not much of a home field advantage so far. There's always going to be a few missed calls, but for a team that was flagged 10 times just one week prior to not get a single flag thrown the following week is unreal.  That only happened one time all year last year.

[Mustang82]

In being both a Dolphins and Colts fan, Dolphins get the tilt when the two play so maybe I'm biased. However, to think that all the whinning about it is starting to get sad. Dolphins got shafted a few times that are just as arguable. The play that was supposedly a fumble was nonsense. The ball didn't flip and bobble 2 or even 5 yards down field, it had enough force behind it to get the nod as forward motion and an incomplete pass. Only when they saw fit and the play was dead did they rule it a fumble. Then the call on 4th down where Tannehill snuck it we got shafted. They ruled they couldn't determine where the ball was yet they moved it back to where his knee was, not the ball when the knee was down and remeasured AFTER they already ruled it a first down. How can you say it's a first down based on one placement, go back and look at it only to determine that you can't see where it is exactly yet replace the ball in a new spot different than the first that was measured? There's no reason the ball should have been replaced if you can't determine it wasn't where it was the first place it was measured from. The refs were terrible on both sides of the ball. I understand this is a Colts forum and everything but serioulsy most of you are making it sound like the Packers/Seahawks "Failmary" call. If you are ever in the situation to where you have to blame the refs for a loss the game was never in your control anyways. The way most of the predictions read that I saw stated that the Dolphins would get manhandled by the Colts and the fact that they weren't is somewhat adding fuel to this fire I think. And what bothers me more is the stuff I had said to my face as I left the stadium just because I was wearing a Dolphins jersey. I'm 22 and just in sitting with my girlfriend  (who was wearing Colts stuff) on a bench waiting to be picked up had a man blatantly call me names, tell me how bad my team sucked, and say other vulgar things. I know a a bad apple isn't a reason to name the whole crowd but never, even last year when the Dolphins lost, did I feel the need to do such a thing. I've been a split Colts/Dolphins fan my entire life but if the Colts were the ones who went an entire game without drawwing a flag, missed calls or not, how many threads would be created about the refs and their performance on Sunday?

[ColtsBlueFL]

The refs have botched calls in two games that I have seen the Greenbay vs. San Fransisco game, and ours... maybe a time has come to make them accountable. Fines, or remove them from the NFL.

 

There's accountability.  But we never see this. and we never know what they get points for and downgrades for.  But a system is there.

 

http://www.profootballreferee.com/152/could-you-hold-up-to-the-nfls-evaluation-system/

[lollygagger8]

It's pretty obvious the refs were on Dolphins side. ZERO penalties called?? COME ON MAN!

[ColtsBlueFL]

Maybe the Dolphins pointed it out to the officials, because something almost meaningless as that is not usually called.

 

Exactly. I had an eerie feeling it had a somewhat CFL play look to it But i was not recording so no replays), and maybe the Dolphins pointed it out to the crew.  Not something blatant or called unless pointed out.  I guess it kind of remind me of the George Brett pine tar bat incident in a weird way. But I'm sure there will be no reinstatement of the TD, unlike Brett's homerun.

[Kyle]

Ok, but they never call illegal shift for not setting for a full second after going in motion. Players do this consistently in every game I watched. But as you pointed out, that could be a different matter when being set before going into motion....as I didn't look for that, thinking the call was after he went in motion.

 

It would be interesting to know when the flag was thrown.  If it was for a player not being set for a full second before going in motion, did they throw the flag the instant the ball was snapped.....or after the ball was in the air or even caught???  Also, if it was a penalty for something BEFORE going in motion, isnt it a penalty (like a false start) before the ball is snapped and should have been a dead ball foul and the play should have been stopped before it even started???

 

it just seems like a strange call...

[OffensivelyPC]

Calls were missed both ways.  But even assuming everything you said is correct and the calls/missed calls were lopsided.  We still had a chance to overcome them and didn't.  Ultimately, we are 1-1 and we are the primary reason for it.  Can't blame the refs. 

[Jason_]

It would be interesting to know when the flag was thrown.  If it was for a player not being set for a full second before going in motion, did they throw the flag the instant the ball was snapped.....or after the ball was in the air or even caught???  Also, if it was a penalty for something BEFORE going in motion, isnt it a penalty (like a false start) before the ball is snapped and should have been a dead ball foul and the play should have been stopped before it even started???

 

it just seems like a strange call...

 

I was thinking about that last night because I listed to Pagano's press conference on the 16th before going to bed.  He said that the way it was explained to him, when the players break the huddle, all players have to set for a full second before anyone goes into any kind of motion.  However, that doesn't make sense because, as you said, if that were the case then it could and should be a pre-snap penalty and the play should be blown dead before it gets started, just like a false start.  

 

I'm thinking they were going to give Wayne the chance to get set once he moved to the left hash but he still wasn't able to get fully set before the ball was snapped, so I think the flag was thrown at that point, right after the ball was snapped.  Again though, I don't see why they wouldn't blow the whistle right there and blow the play dead.  

[BOTT]

I was thinking about that last night because I listed to Pagano's press conference on the 16th before going to bed.  He said that the way it was explained to him, when the players break the huddle, all players have to set for a full second before anyone goes into any kind of motion.  However, that doesn't make sense because, as you said, if that were the case then it could and should be a pre-snap penalty and the play should be blown dead before it gets started, just like a false start.  

 

I'm thinking they were going to give Wayne the chance to get set once he moved to the left hash but he still wasn't able to get fully set before the ball was snapped, so I think the flag was thrown at that point, right after the ball was snapped.  Again though, I don't see why they wouldn't blow the whistle right there and blow the play dead.  

I stumbled across this rule while looking up what the refs called....and IF I remember correctly, the penalty isn't assessed until after the snap.

[Kyle]

I stumbled across this rule while looking up what the refs called....and IF I remember correctly, the penalty isn't assessed until after the snap.

sounds like a lose lose situation for the offense....  rule should be changed

[imacoltfan]

I guess you guys don't want me to add that Pouncey was 5 yards down field on Wallace's touchdown.

[hawkeyes]

The defender punched the ball out of Jones' hand as he was going to the ground.  The ball hit the ground and then Jones fell on top of it.  It was only in the very last replay where it was clearly shown.  And yes I do have video evidence on my DVR. ;)

 

Great go watch it  again ... you might see the ball loose but you wont see it on the ground nor will you see it contact the ground.  You can only assume that it touches the ground and assuming is not conclusive evidence.

[MCurtis32]

Yes, The refs can take a game away from you no matter how good you are. The Dolphins and Colts are an evenly matched game. On any given Sunday you can win or loose. Its a crap shoot. You take away 7 points from any team, it is basically a turn over. A no call sucks even worse. The Dolphin secondary held and interfered many times. Should have gotten at least holding during a couple of crucial series. Is indy the training ground for refs? They always seem to screw the Colts at home. What ever happened to the home field advantage? By the way, what happened to the noise the fans used to make? You could bring a new born to the game and he or she would sleep straight through.

[Jason_]

Great go watch it again ... you might see the ball loose but you wont see it on the ground nor will you see it contact the ground. You can only assume that it touches the ground and assuming is not conclusive evidence.

Yeah...no. the ball was shown clearly on the ground ;)

[MCurtis32]

Calls were missed both ways.  But even assuming everything you said is correct and the calls/missed calls were lopsided.  We still had a chance to overcome them and didn't.  Ultimately, we are 1-1 and we are the primary reason for it.  Can't blame the refs. 

That really nice. We all just get along fine. We are educated and sophisticated fans. We loose a game, oh well, we will get them next time. What happy horse crap! Your a football fan. Raise hell when you loose! Drink Beer and get loud. By the way, All you soccer moms and dads who want you little boys to play football, Start by raising boys to be boys, not little girls that are afraid of any confrontation or contact. It is getting hard to coach pop warner with what you are raising these days.

[MarylandTerrapin]

1) If we gain one measley yard on the opening drive, we convert the 1st down and AV's FG eventually gets inside the upright.  2) If our D doesn't allow a FG at the end of the half, it's 17-14 going into halftime.  3) If Luck uses better judgement and doesn't throw the pick (or Reggie plays DB and breaks up the pass), we get a FG on that drive.

 

Enough with the refs already - if just one of the things happen above, we win with a FG at the end of the game (either 23-21 or 26-24).  Bottom line is that we did it to ourselves - we didn't make enough plays to win.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

To blame the refs would be weak .  They did'nt get intercepted or miss a FG ..

 

And yes the ball was on the ground unfortunately we just did'nt snap the ball fast enough .

 

Colts lose one they could'a  Won .