Eli Manning HOF Now?

[supremecoltsfan300]

Phil Simms said that Eli Manning is a hall of famer right now. I personally think he will be with just a few more good seasons, but right now I dont know how you could put him up there. There's not enough seasons for him yet, and not enough consistency.

The 2 SB rings are great, but outside of this year, he's never had a really good season.

I dont really know why we're looking at his hof status now as he isnt injured and will continue to play for more years, but let's roll with it. What do you all say?

[Nobody]

What have you done for me lately? That's how the league is now. Eli needs several more years of elite play. Too many other brink QBs. I saw a segment on ESPN right after the SB. Two out of three analysts said Eli now has the better better out of him and Peyton. The same two also said, that in a game for their life, they would choose Eli. The other analyst, I like to call him "Mr. Sanity" realized that it isn't all about rings. Is Bill Russel (11 NBA championships in 13 year career) better than MJ? Or Kobe? Nope. Championships have too much weight in the NFL, which is much more of a team sport than basketball. /rantoff

[supremecoltsfan300]

What have you done for me lately? That's how the league is now. Eli needs several more years of elite play. Too many other brink QBs. I saw a segment on ESPN right after the SB. Two out of three analysts said Eli now has the better better out of him and Peyton. The same two also said, that in a game for their life, they would choose Eli. The other analyst, I like to call him "Mr. Sanity" realized that it isn't all about rings. Is Bill Russel (11 NBA championships in 13 year career) better than MJ? Or Kobe? Nope. Championships have too much weight in the NFL, which is much more of a team sport than basketball. /rantoff

Couldn't agree more.

[Fx Stryker]

SBs don't make you half of fame. If that were true Phil Simms and Jim Plunkett would be there.

[The Fish]

Without knowing what will happen in the future, I'd guess he'll continue to do well, and the namesake will put him over the top. I'd say it's a few good seasons of from being a total lock.

[Flux]

I never understood why people place so much emphasis on championships when it comes to football. Of the three big sports in America, football is the most team oriented (imo), yet all this pressure is placed on the QB. Yes the QB needs to be the leader, game manager, or whatever you like, but with all the different variables that go into a Superbowl run, I just don't see how it can fall on one man's shoulders. When it comes to determining whether or not a QB is hall of fame worthy, Superbowl rings should be considered obviously but they should not make or break a hall of fame ballot. Even with two rings, Eli isn't there yet. Maybe after a couple more solid seasons but even still I don't know. The Hall of Fame should be something special and when I watch Eli its not the same as watching Peyton, Brady, LT, Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, or Darren Sharper (at least to me) just to name a few off the top of my head...there is no feeling like "man this guy is the real deal...I need to watch this guy." He is very good but he just doesn't feel like anything truly special.

[FireJimCaldwell]

There are two QB's in the NFL right now that if they retired tomorrow they are Hall of Famers. Peyton, & Brady.. If you advance time 5 years, then you could easily likely add Brees, Eli and/or Roethlisberger and possibly Rivers to the list. If you advance it 10 years, you might be able to add Rodgers to the list and maybe some other players like Stafford/Ryan or anyone else that has had a solid decade.

Since Eli isn't retiring tomorrow, if his next 5 years are close to his previous 5 years(even without the championships), then he will be wearing a gold jacket 5 years after he hangs them up.

[CR91]

right now eli is like the jim plunkett of the nfl. same thing with big ben yes you won two super bowls but your just not in the realm of the all time greats. no one is gonna choose eli or big ben over brees or brady just like no one is gonna choose plunkett over dan marino

[GoPats]

There are two QB's in the NFL right now that if they retired tomorrow they are Hall of Famers. Peyton, & Brady.. If you advance time 5 years, then you could easily likely add Brees, Eli and/or Roethlisberger and possibly Rivers to the list. If you advance it 10 years, you might be able to add Rodgers to the list and maybe some other players like Stafford/Ryan or anyone else that has had a solid decade.

Since Eli isn't retiring tomorrow, if his next 5 years are close to his previous 5 years(even without the championships), then he will be wearing a gold jacket 5 years after he hangs them up.

Good post, I agree for the most part. I think Brees may get HOF consideration if he were to retire tomorrow, but the other guys you listed (including Eli) are still on the front nine. Barring any major drop-offs in production, or injuries, I would think Eli and Big Ben would be in after maybe five or six more seasons.

Regarding championships in general...

There is no rule book regarding legacies. Some guys build their legend on what they did in the postseason. Montana, while always efficient, never really tore it up in terms of statistics. Never had a 4,000 yard season. Other guys like Marino rewrote the record books but didn't win any titles.

Other guys, like Manning, Brees, and Brady, had some of both.

It's the parts of the whole that build someone's legacy in the NFL. Especially a QB. But having a couple of titles under your belt, like Eli does, is not going to hurt him. That could take an above-average career and make it a very good one, or even a great one.

All these guys play the game to win. Aside from the money and the personal glory, that's what it's all about. No player wins by himself, but some guys certainly seem to have a knack for it.

[blotsfan]

Yeah, Eli isn't a hall of famer now, but you can't discredit that he played great during both of his team's runs. Not just a case of being surrounded by talented players. On the other hand, other than those two runs, he hasn't really done much. He's definitely in position to make it though, and another title probably would put him in for me. The goal of any team is to win the super bowl, and the quarterback is clearly the most important part of getting there. If he finds success 3 times, I don't think I could leave him out of the hall.

[oldunclemark]

Phil Simms said that Eli Manning is a hall of famer right now. I personally think he will be with just a few more good seasons, but right now I dont know how you could put him up there. There's not enough seasons for him yet, and not enough consistency.

The 2 SB rings are great, but outside of this year, he's never had a really good season.

I dont really know why we're looking at his hof status now as he isnt injured and will continue to play for more years, but let's roll with it. What do you all say?

I agree with you all ther way....its too soon to judge.

..but if his career ended now....'no'

Until the last couple of years..Drew Brees wasnt a Hall-of-Fame candidate..

there's only 3 Hall-of-Fame QBs now playing if the vote was today..

Peyton Mannng, Drew Brees and Tom Brady....

[supremecoltsfan300]

I agree with you all ther way....its too soon to judge.

..but if his career ended now....'no'

Until the last couple of years..Drew Brees wasnt a Hall-of-Fame candidate..

there's only 3 Hall-of-Fame QBs now playing if the vote was today..

Peyton Mannng, Drew Brees and Tom Brady....

Well said.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Good post, I agree for the most part. I think Brees may get HOF consideration if he were to retire tomorrow, but the other guys you listed (including Eli) are still on the front nine. Barring any major drop-offs in production, or injuries, I would think Eli and Big Ben would be in after maybe five or six more seasons.

Regarding championships in general...

There is no rule book regarding legacies. Some guys build their legend on what they did in the postseason. Montana, while always efficient, never really tore it up in terms of statistics. Never had a 4,000 yard season. Other guys like Marino rewrote the record books but didn't win any titles.

Other guys, like Manning, Brees, and Brady, had some of both.

It's the parts of the whole that build someone's legacy in the NFL. Especially a QB. But having a couple of titles under your belt, like Eli does, is not going to hurt him. That could take an above-average career and make it a very good one, or even a great one.

All these guys play the game to win. Aside from the money and the personal glory, that's what it's all about. No player wins by himself, but some guys certainly seem to have a knack for it.

I think Eli would get some consideration/votes at this point too, but I still believe that Peyton and Brady are the only two quarterbacks that go in the Hall of Fame no questions asked if they retired tomorrow. You are right Brees would get some consideration. His time in New Orleans is basically unparalleled. He wasn't Ryan Leaf in San Diego but he wasn't Dan Fouts either, so he's been a bit Jekyll & Hyde.

As long as Brees, Eli, Roethlisberger and even Rivers & Rodgers don't drop off in a big way, then they should likely see the yellow jackets one day.

[southwest1]

I agree with GoPats and FJC,

The NFL HOF Committee comprised mostly of media pundits and sports writers usually in terms of QB's prefers multiple 4,000 yard seasons, 3-4 ProBowl selections, reliable health/durability on the field for numerous years, and at least one Championship victory to their credit. Yes, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are shoe in candidates no question right now. Philip Rivers and Ben Ben will reach that pinnacle themselves eventually as will Eli.

I often wonder how much the HOF Committee takes into account a teams offensive line or defensive line too. Does a deficient line in either case sway voters more heavily in a candidate's direction or not?

For the life of me, I still cannot comprehend why OLB and DE Charles Haley, a 5 time SB Champion with the 49ers and Cowboys isn't in the NFL HOF yet. Who cares if he failed to kiss the backside of media personnel and newspaper writers overall. Let Haley in...This glaring oversight is ridiculous IMO.

[supremecoltsfan300]

I agree with GoPats and FJC,

The NFL HOF Committee comprised mostly of media pundits and sports writers usually in terms of QB's prefers multiple 4,000 yard seasons, 3-4 ProBowl selections, reliable health/durability on the field for numerous years, and at least one Championship victory to their credit. Yes, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are shoe in candidates no question right now. Philip Rivers and Ben Ben will reach that pinnacle themselves eventually as will Eli.

I often wonder how much the HOF Committee takes into account a teams offensive line or defensive line too. Does a deficient line in either case sway voters more heavily in a candidate's direction or not?

For the life of me, I still cannot comprehend why OLB and DE Charles Haley, a 5 time SB Champion with the 49ers and Cowboys isn't in the NFL HOF yet. Who cares if he failed to kiss the backside of media personnel and newspaper writers overall. Let Haley in...This glaring oversight is ridiculous IMO.

Unless Rivers gets a ring I dont see how he gets in. That would make the qbs from this era going into the hall at 7. I think that's way too many qbs to go in from one era. And I agree about Haley, makes zero sense why he's not in yet. He ticked you off, get over it voters.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Unless Rivers gets a ring I dont see how he gets in. That would make the qbs from this era going into the hall at 7. I think that's way too many qbs to go in from one era. And I agree about Haley, makes zero sense why he's not in yet. He ticked you off, get over it voters.

None of the guys going in this weekend have a ring.

Marino, Fouts, Kelly, Tarkenton are a few HOF QB's without rings. So if Rivers never wins one it won't mean he won't have a shot.

[supremecoltsfan300]

All 6 of the qbs going in have rings though and are atm considered better than Rivers. Farve and Warner are going in too. That's too many qbs in the 1995-2015(?) decade going in imo. Marino was the greatest passer of all time. Fouts put up huge numbers surpassed by only a few qbs. Kelly went to 4 straight Sbs and was one of the early mo huddle qbs.

If rivers doesnt win a sb, he needs to do some other legendary feat imo to have a shot. There's more hof qbs in this era than ever and I dont think they'll put that many in.

[Vltrophy1]

Rivers is a good QB. Not an elite QB. He's consistently inconsistent. Throws too many INTs & like the Giants seem to have at least 1 part of the season where they lose at least 4 straight games if not more. Rivers at this time IMO is not a HOF QB. Eli if he were to retire today would possibly & I'll say at least a 60-75% chance of going in on the first ballot. 2nd for sure. Same w/Rodgers. If he retired today would make the HOF on the 2nd ballot worst case scenario.

[Andy]

He just needs to pad his stats a bit. A good 4 years of stats and I'd stay he's a HOF, 1st or 2nd ballot

[IndyTrav]

Eli is on track but he's got a ways to go.

Rivers at this moment doesn't have a shot.

With guys like Peyton/Brady/Farve going in, you really have to do something special because those guys set the bar so high. Is Rivers good? Yea, but I think we can all agree he's not in the same room as Brady/Manning. And if he's not in the same room, why should they share a bust?

Also, Haley will make it in.

The most difficult selection for the HoF committee coming up is Kurt Warner. THAT will be interesting.

[supremecoltsfan300]

Warner goes in and it's not even close. League mvp, Sb appearances with two different teams, 3 overall, 1 ring. And most importantly, Hof players are supposed to have changed/impacted the game, and Warner certainly did with the greatest show on turf.

[IndyTrav]

Warner goes in and it's not even close. League mvp, Sb appearances with two different teams, 3 overall, 1 ring. And most importantly, Hof players are supposed to have changed/impacted the game, and Warner certainly did with the greatest show on turf.

The problem is he only had 2 great years and 2 good years.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Warner wouldn't get my vote.

Rivers is a good QB. Not an elite QB. He's consistently inconsistent. Throws too many INTs & like the Giants seem to have at least 1 part of the season where they lose at least 4 straight games if not more. Rivers at this time IMO is not a HOF QB. Eli if he were to retire today would possibly & I'll say at least a 60-75% chance of going in on the first ballot. 2nd for sure. Same w/Rodgers. If he retired today would make the HOF on the 2nd ballot worst case scenario.

There is zero chance of Rodgers making the Hall of Fame if he retired today.

He's only started 4 years. Not enough time.

[FireJimCaldwell]

The problem is he only had 2 great years and 2 good years.

Agreed.

[MAC]

Hall of Fame candidates are people who were exceptional when compared to their peers at their position for a very long time. Eli has only one year under his belt in which he was even comfortably in the top ten - how is that a HOF career? The fact that his team won a couple of championships in the process is impressive, but not even remotely close to putting him over the top. He's got a LONG way to go.

I don't think that I can comment on anyone who considers him superior to Peyton without getting a warning.

[supremecoltsfan300]

The problem is he only had 2 great years and 2 good years.

Statistically he was a great qb for his whole career. Very high completion percentage, high qb rating, high yards per game. And he played 13 post season games and performed well overall: 31 tds, 14 ints. 3 SB appearances, and the one with Arizona was really impressive imo. He was an Mvp too. His career was impressive then wait is this the former mvp?? then really good again. Those middle years make it a hard decision but I think he did enough in Arizona to go in. I dont think he's a first ballot or second or anything like that hall of famer, but after some years go by I think he should get in. During the 95-2010 era, was anyone besides farve, manning, brady really better than warner?

[southwest1]

None of the guys going in this weekend have a ring.

Marino, Fouts, Kelly, Tarkenton are a few HOF QB's without rings. So if Rivers never wins one it won't mean he won't have a shot.

You bring up a valid point FJC. Being ringless doesn't automatically eliminate a retired NFL player from HOF contention and approval, look at Jim Kelly, Thurman Thomas, and Bruce Smith too. All those well deserved veterans got inducted into Canton without a Championship to their credit as well. A lack of shiny hardware doesn't rule out a yellow jacket for high statistical achievers in professional football.

I still think Rivers has a legitimate shot at a bust in his honor when his career is over and done. The window is by no means closed there IMO.

Sorry about that FJC, you did mention Kelly. Usually, I'm not so absent minded.

[IndyTrav]

Statistically he was a great qb for his whole career. Very high completion percentage, high qb rating, high yards per game. And he played 13 post season games and performed well overall: 31 tds, 14 ints. 3 SB appearances, and the one with Arizona was really impressive imo. He was an Mvp too. His career was impressive then wait is this the former mvp?? then really good again. Those middle years make it a hard decision but I think he did enough in Arizona to go in. I dont think he's a first ballot or second or anything like that hall of famer, but after some years go by I think he should get in. During the 95-2010 era, was anyone besides farve, manning, brady really better than warner?

The problem is, with both teams (StL Ar) he was put in a position to succeed. In StL he was in the greatest shoe on turf which is widely considered Martz, not Warner and he had Faulk who's a HoF and two borderline HoF WR, in Holt/Bruce. The in Arizona he had two amazing WR in Fitz/Boldin.

I'm torn on if he should go in or not, and I'm certain that's what the voters are like as well.

Look no further than Terrell Davis. An unheard of 4year run, similar to Warner's. MVP, SB MVP, 2 Super Bowls, 2 Off Player of yr, 3 All Pros and he is not getting any consideration.

[supremecoltsfan300]

The problem is, with both teams (StL Ar) he was put in a position to succeed. In StL he was in the greatest shoe on turf which is widely considered Martz, not Warner and he had Faulk who's a HoF and two borderline HoF WR, in Holt/Bruce. The in Arizona he had two amazing WR in Fitz/Boldin.

I'm torn on if he should go in or not, and I'm certain that's what the voters are like as well.

Look no further than Terrell Davis. An unheard of 4year run, similar to Warner's. MVP, SB MVP, 2 Super Bowls, 2 Off Player of yr, 3 All Pros and he is not getting any consideration.

I think it will be tougher than I initially thought. I think he will like I said, but it will take probably more than a decade to get in. TD has gotten to the semi-finals every year since he became eligible. He'll probably make the finals soon. I think TD also should get in eventually, but it will still take many more years. TD and Warner both did amazing things in the postseason during those four years in addition to having those 4 great seasons. That's why I think they should go in, but I can definitely see the hesitation you and some other people have. Warner forgot how to play football during his prime, and TD had the unfortunate injury.

[FireJimCaldwell]

The problem is, with both teams (StL Ar) he was put in a position to succeed. In StL he was in the greatest shoe on turf which is widely considered Martz, not Warner and he had Faulk who's a HoF and two borderline HoF WR, in Holt/Bruce. The in Arizona he had two amazing WR in Fitz/Boldin.

I'm torn on if he should go in or not, and I'm certain that's what the voters are like as well.

Look no further than Terrell Davis. An unheard of 4year run, similar to Warner's. MVP, SB MVP, 2 Super Bowls, 2 Off Player of yr, 3 All Pros and he is not getting any consideration.

If Trent Green doesn't tear his knee up we might not even ever hear of Kurt Warner and his Grocery Bags to Riches story. It's a great lifetime movie, I just don't see him in the Hall of Fame.

[Gavin]

The problem is, with both teams (StL Ar) he was put in a position to succeed. In StL he was in the greatest shoe on turf which is widely considered Martz, not Warner and he had Faulk who's a HoF and two borderline HoF WR, in Holt/Bruce. The in Arizona he had two amazing WR in Fitz/Boldin.

I'm torn on if he should go in or not, and I'm certain that's what the voters are like as well.

Look no further than Terrell Davis. An unheard of 4year run, similar to Warner's. MVP, SB MVP, 2 Super Bowls, 2 Off Player of yr, 3 All Pros and he is not getting any consideration.

If Martz and his no audible offense was so great then what happened to him in Chicago with Cutler? Cant punish Warner for having Holt or Bruce either because, Montana had Rice, Kelly had Reed, To me if you put Holt and Marshall in then you have to put Warner in, I mean what if that was someone like Curtis Painter slinging them the ball do you really think they would have the stats and rings that they have? Im gonna go out on a limb and say no, skill players such as wide receiver are only as good as there quarterback throwing them the ball, Thats not to say that the wouldnt be good, because Wayne was still alright with Painter but having a very good quarterback certainly helped them wide receivers, The Warner to Fitzgerald combination took them to the Super Bowl, Well the Cards still have Fitzgerald but havent even so much as got a sniff at the playoffs since Kurt retired let alone Super Bowl, they are to busy having tryouts for the QB position

[Qwiz]

If Martz and his no audible offense was so great then what happened to him in Chicago with Cutler? Cant punish Warner for having Holt or Bruce either because, Montana had Rice, Kelly had Reed, To me if you put Holt and Marshall in then you have to put Warner in, I mean what if that was someone like Curtis Painter slinging them the ball do you really think they would have the stats and rings that they have? Im gonna go out on a limb and say no, skill players such as wide receiver are only as good as there quarterback throwing them the ball, Thats not to say that the wouldnt be good, because Wayne was still alright with Painter but having a very good quarterback certainly helped them wide receivers, The Warner to Fitzgerald combination took them to the Super Bowl, Well the Cards still have Fitzgerald but havent even so much as got a sniff at the playoffs since Kurt retired let alone Super Bowl, they are to busy having tryouts for the QB position

Exactly. Warner, not Martz, made the offense spectacular. Martz wasn't throwing TD passes...

[IndyTrav]

If Martz and his no audible offense was so great then what happened to him in Chicago with Cutler? Cant punish Warner for having Holt or Bruce either because, Montana had Rice, Kelly had Reed, To me if you put Holt and Marshall in then you have to put Warner in, I mean what if that was someone like Curtis Painter slinging them the ball do you really think they would have the stats and rings that they have? Im gonna go out on a limb and say no, skill players such as wide receiver are only as good as there quarterback throwing them the ball, Thats not to say that the wouldnt be good, because Wayne was still alright with Painter but having a very good quarterback certainly helped them wide receivers, The Warner to Fitzgerald combination took them to the Super Bowl, Well the Cards still have Fitzgerald but havent even so much as got a sniff at the playoffs since Kurt retired let alone Super Bowl, they are to busy having tryouts for the QB position

What happened to the Martz system? About 13 years is what happened. Teams catch on.

I'm not faulting Warner for his WR core, but name another QB who has had 4 legitimate WR that Warner has had. Fitz/Boldin/Holt/Bruce ALL made a name for themselves both before and after Warner.

[MAC]

I'm not faulting Warner for his WR core, but name another QB who has had 4 legitimate WR that Warner has had. Fitz/Boldin/Holt/Bruce ALL made a name for themselves both before and after Warner.

I think that Kurt Warner was a good QB, and I started pulling for him during his last go round with the Cardinals (thanks to Edge basically), but a closer comparable would be Kerry Collins - neither a HOFer in my opinion.

Those Rams teams had so much speed on the outside that it was ridiculous. Every week there was a highlight of some bomb being tossed with Holt, Bruce, or Akim running underneath it. And all that opened up the inside so much that a dump off to Faulk could be a big gainer on any play. As you imply, what is telling about Warner was how ineffective he was when he didn't have that special WR talent. Collins made a SB too, and the fans in NY talked him up at the time - but he was average at best. I wouldn't grade Warner too far ahead of him.

[Gavin]

Name another QB that has had 4 legit wide receiver or passing targets like Warner has had? Peyton had Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Edge, Pollard, as well as Faulk briefly

[FireJimCaldwell]

What happened to the Martz system? About 13 years is what happened. Teams catch on.

I'm not faulting Warner for his WR core, but name another QB who has had 4 legitimate WR that Warner has had. Fitz/Boldin/Holt/Bruce ALL made a name for themselves both before and after Warner.

I guess time will tell on what Manning does with his new 88 and his new 87, but nobody to my knowledge has played with wide receivers of the caliber of that 4sum. I'd have to give that some thought. Favre might come close... if you go over his career Sharpe, Freeman, Driver Jennings, etc.

Though he barely played with Jennings.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Name another QB that has had 4 legit wide receiver or passing targets like Warner has had? Peyton had Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Edge, Pollard, as well as Faulk briefly

Harrison & Wayne isn't Fitzgerald/Boldin/Holt/Bruce

[supremecoltsfan300]

Name another QB that has had 4 legit wide receiver or passing targets like Warner has had? Peyton had Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Edge, Pollard, as well as Faulk briefly

Edge was not a great pass catching running back. Pollard and Clark honestly are not better than the average tight end without peyton. Harrison was elite (except in the playoffs) and wayne was very good. But Peyton defintely helped both of them like they helped him. Without Manning though, Wayne doesnt even enter into the conversation of "could he possibly be a hof one day." Faulk was only the one year. That's two really good passing targets for Manning.

Warner had five total: Holt, Bruce, Faulk (for many years), Fitz, Boldin.

[supremecoltsfan300]

I guess time will tell on what Manning does with his new 88 and his new 87, but nobody to my knowledge has played with wide receivers of the caliber of that 4sum. I'd have to give that some thought. Favre might come close... if you go over his career Sharpe, Freeman, Driver Jennings, etc.

Though he barely played with Jennings.

A little too soon to tell, but what about Brady 2007+?

Welker and Moss in their prime, and Gronk and Hernandez. Gronk I think might be a hof one day, and Hernandez is a top 10 te in the league imo, he just gets overshadowed. Again, too soon to tell on the tight ends, but I think both will have over 10k yards by the end of their careers.

[IndyTrav]

People forget how amazing Torry Holt actually was. Holt=Marvin in nearly every sense.