Why is Ballard not improving his Secondary?

[GoColts8818]

There’s been a lot of talk of Ballard saying that’s on me.  I’ll just say unlike some of the other positions he’s kept the door open to making a move at safety just that he didn’t want to do one right now.  So I think he’s already acknowledging what they are trying might not work.  He wants to give it a chance though.  I mean at some point you have to take an extended look at Cross and see if he can play or not or why did you trade up in the draft to get him?

 

I will say for all the panic about the secondary the starters didn’t give up a point when they were in there Sunday and forced a turnover.  Jones also had a really nice play in press coverage.  That was without Brents playing either.  It also sounds like they won the day vs the Cardinals yesterday.  So maybe we should watch with an open mind and see if it works before rushing to declare it a failure?  
 

I am intrigued by Cross and Blackmon flipping positions during the game too.  It’s another wrinkle other teams have to prepare for.  
 

I will freely admit it could fail.  If it does I think Ballard will make a move.  However, I’ve thought all along if he does it wasn’t going to be someone like Simmons.  It would be someone like Harrison last year, a guy no one is thinking of last year but came in and most people were pleased with his performance once he got here.  

[jvan1973]

7 hours ago, AKB said:

I don't remember you finishing a debate. you drop in and post a 1 liner instigatory remark and never respond to a quality debate. it takes two to tango buddy, including when a player is to be signed. clearly, he was coveted. 

and you might think that daddy Ballard's opinion is the end all be all, or you might get grounded, but there are 32 other NFL GMs about 10 of which actively have accomplished more. 

but your BDB knows best huh 

Yeah.   The saints wanted simmons so bad they let a division team sign him for 7 million.   They let him walk out the door .  He then went to a division rival and signed for way less than he played for last year.   A normal person would question why.   

[Smonroe]

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Yeah.   The saints wanted simmons so bad they let a division team sign him for 7 million.   They let him walk out the door .  He then went to a division rival and signed for way less than he played for last year.   A normal person would question why.   

I would have been fine if we signed him, but I’m just fine that we didn’t.  He was a great player, but never fast, and he’s older.  Could be why he wasn’t in such demand.

I still think we don’t have all the opening day CBs and Safeties on the roster right now.  

 

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, AKB said:

you really think he would be retained on a winless season? i think this is probably a bit of hyperbole. but I do think we need to produce something this year. at least .500 *which has been just fine for ballard over the last half decade+

I do. I’m basing it off Irsays repeated comments that he’s going to be patient and let AR develop and the team develop around him. I think as long as that development is evident, even in a 0-17 setting, I think Ballard would be given the following year as final chance

[AKB]

34 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I do. I’m basing it off Irsays repeated comments that he’s going to be patient and let AR develop and the team develop around him. I think as long as that development is evident, even in a 0-17 setting, I think Ballard would be given the following year as final chance

and how would you feel about that? you think that would be fair and okay for ballard?

[ColtStrong2013]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

Yeah.   The saints wanted simmons so bad they let a division team sign him for 7 million.   They let him walk out the door .  He then went to a division rival and signed for way less than he played for last year.   A normal person would question why.   

Yeah. There were some on here saying the deal was done when he was visiting the Saints with Mathieu present and going to dinner with them. If they were on the same page, he wouldn't have left without a deal. We'll never know the details of the situation, but it's clear he and his agents were searching for a specific fit and assurances.

[richard pallo]

Steichen said he wasn’t playing starters tomorrow so it will be interesting to see how much Cross and the other safeties play.  Blackmon should not play at all but all of the other safeties should.  Imo Cross really has to impress.  Otherwise I don’t see Ballard going much longer without making an addition.  

 

 

 

[1959Colts]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

Steichen said he wasn’t playing starters tomorrow so it will be interesting to see how much Cross and the other safeties play.  Blackmon should not play at all but all of the other safeties should.  Imo Cross really has to impress.  Otherwise I don’t see Ballard going much longer without making an addition.  

 

 

 

At this point, unless a team releases a decent safety, it looks like there  isn't anyone out there any better than who we currently have.

[krunk]

At some point here Im assuming you guys are going to get that we were never looking for a veteran safety to replace anybody in the first place! The plan has always been Blackmon and Cross.  And if they are rolling with Cross that sort of also means they are okay with his decision making and understanding of the scheme at this point more so than they used to be.  Come on people let's move on!  We've got two highly athletic and rangy safeties back there.  Most teams don't have what we've got to be honest.  Yes it could backfire if Cross doesn't get to that next step, but think about what it will look like if he does hold it down back there?  The only real question mark after that is Jones.  Im still not 100 percent sure he's it, but at least he's usually doing the right thing.  Ju Ju Brents just needs to stay healthy.  Other than that I like his game, and the scheme masks the fact that he and Jones are not that fast.

[csmopar]

10 hours ago, AKB said:

and how would you feel about that? you think that would be fair and okay for ballard?

I’m fine with it. I think the league burns thru young QBs way too fast. The greats all usually didn’t show their full potential until their 3rd year. I’m fine with Ballard getting 3 full years after drafting AR. If AR busts, well then I think the obvious is going to happen. 

[Smonroe]

11 hours ago, csmopar said:

I do. I’m basing it off Irsays repeated comments that he’s going to be patient and let AR develop and the team develop around him. I think as long as that development is evident, even in a 0-17 setting, I think Ballard would be given the following year as final chance

But let’s say AR (and the offense) plays really well.  And the D line is what we think it can be.  But we lose a few games because of the play of the FS and CBs (like the last Texans game).  Which caipuses us to miss the playoffs again.
 

Ballard had the money, and there were several players available that could have improved the DB rooms.  Yet he stuck with what we had.  
 

Is his job safe?  Aren’t we all about taking responsibility and accepting the consequences?

 

To be clear, this is a hypothetical.  I like Ballard and fully realize no GM makes all the right moves.   Except Kevin Costner.

[PackersNation]

Let the season play out. Those here slamming him may be praising Ballard by December. Yes, the roster has a few issues like the depth at RB, but overall he has built, and is continuing to build a solid roster. This is why Irsay likes the direction Ballard has the football operation in. He's a top 15 GM, the Colts could do worse.

 

Ballard isn't going anywhere any time soon, so get on board or choose to be miserable while supporting a quality team and franchise.

[GoColts8818]

42 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

But let’s say AR (and the offense) plays really well.  And the D line is what we think it can be.  But we lose a few games because of the play of the FS and CBs (like the last Texans game).  Which caipuses us to miss the playoffs again.
 

Ballard had the money, and there were several players available that could have improved the DB rooms.  Yet he stuck with what we had.  
 

Is his job safe?  Aren’t we all about taking responsibility and accepting the consequences?

 

To be clear, this is a hypothetical.  I like Ballard and fully realize no GM makes all the right moves.   Except Kevin Costner.

Very rarely can you point to one thing and go that’s why you lost a football game,  example despite the secondary play the Colts were driving and failed and convert a fourth down and short play deep in Texans territory that would have won the game.  They lost just as much for that as anything else.

 

is his job safe that’s solely up to Irsay.  It doesn’t matter what we talk about or think.  This isn’t a committee decision.

[Smonroe]

54 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Very rarely can you point to one thing and go that’s why you lost a football game,  example despite the secondary play the Colts were driving and failed and convert a fourth down and short play deep in Texans territory that would have won the game.  They lost just as much for that as anything else.

 

is his job safe that’s solely up to Irsay.  It doesn’t matter what we talk about or think.  This isn’t a committee decision.

Obviously we have no say in any decision the Colts make, this is just a hypothetical.  Like everything else we talk about here.  
 

Sure, there is always more than one factor why any team loses.  The point I’m trying to make is that if a GM doesn’t address a known weakness when he can, should he be held accountable? 
 

In this case the DBs.  You can’t find anyone who’s watched practice or scrimmage who will say it’s a solid unit, starters or depth (outside of Kenny and Blackmon).  Yet Ballard refused to address it.  
 

He may be totally right, he’s a smart guy who knows football.   But if he’s wrong, should he face the consequences?   He’s admitted in the past that some inadequacies were on him.  In this case he had the money and there were players available.  Could this be a big enough failure to cause him to lose his job?  I hope not, and I hope he’s right.   But I certainly have concerns about the CBs and the Safeties.  
 

 

[csmopar]

3 hours ago, Smonroe said:

But let’s say AR (and the offense) plays really well.  And the D line is what we think it can be.  But we lose a few games because of the play of the FS and CBs (like the last Texans game).  Which caipuses us to miss the playoffs again.
 

Ballard had the money, and there were several players available that could have improved the DB rooms.  Yet he stuck with what we had.  
 

Is his job safe?  Aren’t we all about taking responsibility and accepting the consequences?

 

To be clear, this is a hypothetical.  I like Ballard and fully realize no GM makes all the right moves.   Except Kevin Costner.

I think so yes I’m not one that has ever thought Ballards seat was hot. I think it got warm after the Wentz debacle but I don’t think it ever really got HOT. 
 

as long as we don’t fall backwards into that hole, I think Irsay isn’t worried about the records right now. 

[csmopar]

3 hours ago, Smonroe said:

But let’s say AR (and the offense) plays really well.  And the D line is what we think it can be.  But we lose a few games because of the play of the FS and CBs (like the last Texans game).  Which caipuses us to miss the playoffs again.
 

Ballard had the money, and there were several players available that could have improved the DB rooms.  Yet he stuck with what we had.  
 

Is his job safe?  Aren’t we all about taking responsibility and accepting the consequences?

 

To be clear, this is a hypothetical.  I like Ballard and fully realize no GM makes all the right moves.   Except Kevin Costner.

The reason I say this is because unlike anyone here, Irsay will actually have the knowledge of what moves Ballard may have actually been trying to do. It’s still entirely plausible that the top tier FAs aren’t interested in Indy. We’re a small market team and until we start contending consistently, we lack the appeal of some of the other teams. Money for some isn’t always a motivator

[csmopar]

2 hours ago, Smonroe said:

Obviously we have no say in any decision the Colts make, this is just a hypothetical.  Like everything else we talk about here.  
 

Sure, there is always more than one factor why any team loses.  The point I’m trying to make is that if a GM doesn’t address a known weakness when he can, should he be held accountable? 
 

In this case the DBs.  You can’t find anyone who’s watched practice or scrimmage who will say it’s a solid unit, starters or depth (outside of Kenny and Blackmon).  Yet Ballard refused to address it.  
 

He may be totally right, he’s a smart guy who knows football.   But if he’s wrong, should he face the consequences?   He’s admitted in the past that some inadequacies were on him.  In this case he had the money and there were players available.  Could this be a big enough failure to cause him to lose his job?  I hope not, and I hope he’s right.   But I certainly have concerns about the CBs and the Safeties.  
 

 

To your point about addressing weaknesses. The argument can be made that he’s addressed those weaknesses and they need time to develop. 
 

Many forget that even after we got Peyton, we still had to get Reggie, Dallas, Freeney, Mathis , Bracket and the rest. It took from 1998 to 2004 before the Colts truly became a consistent threat. And that was with the great bill polian 

[AKB]

4 hours ago, csmopar said:

I’m fine with it. I think the league burns thru young QBs way too fast. The greats all usually didn’t show their full potential until their 3rd year. I’m fine with Ballard getting 3 full years after drafting AR. If AR busts, well then I think the obvious is going to happen. 

i don't think we've ever seen people retained after a winless season. have we?

[csmopar]

13 minutes ago, AKB said:

i don't think we've ever seen people retained after a winless season. have we?

Yes it’s rare but it has happened 

[richard pallo]

Here’s an option.  Would Gilmore be willing to come back and play FS?   He wouldn’t be the first CB to do so at the end of their career.  He’s already played a year in Gus’s system.  He would fit in right away and Cross would have the benefit of learning from  an all pro he already knows.  I would prefer Gilmore more than any of the other FS still available.  I wonder if Ballard would consider that option.  A lot at stake tonight when it comes to the decisions that need to be made regarding the secondary.

[csmopar]

15 minutes ago, AKB said:

i don't think we've ever seen people retained after a winless season. have we?

That said, I do think if we don’t show some vast improvement on D, Bradley stands a much higher chance of being fired than anyone else on the staff at this time

[AKB]

2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Here’s an option.  Would Gilmore be willing to come back and play FS?   He wouldn’t be the first CB to do so at the end of their career.  He’s already played a year in Gus’s system.  He would fit in right away and Cross would have the benefit of learning from  an all pro he already knows.  I would prefer Gilmore more than any of the other FS still available.  I wonder if Ballard would consider that option.  A lot at stake tonight when it comes to the decisions that need to be made regarding the secondary.

i doubt it, and he probably doesn't have the speed to play single high anyway

[richard pallo]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

That said, I do think if we don’t show some vast improvement on D, Bradley stands a much higher chance of being fired than anyone else on the staff at this time

I think we will see an improvement in Gus’s defense.  We know Ballard likes it and has drafted to support it.  I think it’s more likely our DB coach, whoever that is, gets replaced like what happened this year with our DL coach than Bradley.

[richard pallo]

2 minutes ago, AKB said:

i doubt it, and he probably doesn't have the speed to play single high anyway

I think if he reads the play properly I don’t think that speed would matter much.  He should get a better jump and be ahead of the play.

[krunk]

14 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Here’s an option.  Would Gilmore be willing to come back and play FS?   He wouldn’t be the first CB to do so at the end of their career.  He’s already played a year in Gus’s system.  He would fit in right away and Cross would have the benefit of learning from  an all pro he already knows.  I would prefer Gilmore more than any of the other FS still available.  I wonder if Ballard would consider that option.  A lot at stake tonight when it comes to the decisions that need to be made regarding the secondary.

smh

[luv_pony_express]

16 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Here’s an option.  Would Gilmore be willing to come back and play FS?   He wouldn’t be the first CB to do so at the end of their career.  He’s already played a year in Gus’s system.  He would fit in right away and Cross would have the benefit of learning from  an all pro he already knows.  I would prefer Gilmore more than any of the other FS still available.  I wonder if Ballard would consider that option.  A lot at stake tonight when it comes to the decisions that need to be made regarding the secondary.

That almost certainly isn’t going to happen.

 

My hope - especially after learning that he didn’t even so much as make an offer to Simmons - is that he has a trade in the works.

 

Given how bad Flowers has looked, given Bradley’s non-committal comments about FS, and given his unwillingness to touch the cap space he has, a possible trade we don’t know about is the only explanation for his inaction.

[richard pallo]

1 minute ago, luv_pony_express said:

That almost certainly isn’t going to happen.

 

My hope - especially after learning that he didn’t even so much as make an offer to Simmons - is that he has a trade in the works.

 

Given how bad Flowers has looked, given Bradley’s non-committal comments about FS, and given his unwillingness to touch the cap space he has, a possible trade we don’t know about is the only explanation for his inaction.

I hope you’re right.  A trade for Budda Baker would make my day.

[GoColts8818]

3 hours ago, Smonroe said:

Obviously we have no say in any decision the Colts make, this is just a hypothetical.  Like everything else we talk about here.  
 

Sure, there is always more than one factor why any team loses.  The point I’m trying to make is that if a GM doesn’t address a known weakness when he can, should he be held accountable? 
 

In this case the DBs.  You can’t find anyone who’s watched practice or scrimmage who will say it’s a solid unit, starters or depth (outside of Kenny and Blackmon).  Yet Ballard refused to address it.  
 

He may be totally right, he’s a smart guy who knows football.   But if he’s wrong, should he face the consequences?   He’s admitted in the past that some inadequacies were on him.  In this case he had the money and there were players available.  Could this be a big enough failure to cause him to lose his job?  I hope not, and I hope he’s right.   But I certainly have concerns about the CBs and the Safeties.  
 

 

When Irsay says he should.

[Smonroe]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

I think we will see an improvement in Gus’s defense.  We know Ballard likes it and has drafted to support it.  I think it’s more likely our DB coach, whoever that is, gets replaced like what happened this year with our DL coach than Bradley.

 

I'd like to see them turn the Indy race car package into an all out blitz, with our six fastest D linemen and maybe Speed rushing the QB.  Three CBs pressing, depending on how many WRs they have out wide.  The rest would be in a tight shell.

 

There's no way their six can stop our six, one on one.  The QB would have no time to hit the TE or a slot, and the WRs would be just getting off the line.  Obviously this works when they have a less mobile pocket passer.

 

We do some variation of that with Kenny or Speed blitzing, but not as severe or as tight as I'd like to see it.  Low risk, high reward play.

[krunk]

I do not think Irsay would tolerate an 0-17 season.  I don't.

Somebodies head is going to roll.  Irsay shows patience only if

there is some progress on the table that we all can see.  When he

made the move on Frank it was primarily because  the progress pretty

much stopped and we could all see it.  0-17 with this team we have would

mean something is terribly wrong. 

[BlackTiger]

4 hours ago, csmopar said:

It’s still entirely plausible that the top tier FAs aren’t interested in Indy.

I think thats a small factor in the nfl but everything in the nba.  If we had a franchise qb and recent record of winning they would probably be more interested.  There were a few players that said they wanted to come here because of Andrew Luck and probably more that signed but never said it in public.

 

Top tier is strong word or phrase though, i think Ballard would only pay top tier free agents at a couple of positions with none in the secondary.

[TrueBlue4ever]

On 8/14/2024 at 6:01 PM, jvan1973 said:

Funny for an internet poster calling a professional athlete "fragile"

Well Jdone, I’m your Huckleberry, I want to see the local kid succeed. But, he does seem to be allergic to the field. Coming off the field tonight after getting trucked by Benson, he asks Lara, Am I still pretty? 

[NewColtsFan]

8 hours ago, luv_pony_express said:

That almost certainly isn’t going to happen.

 

My hope - especially after learning that he didn’t even so much as make an offer to Simmons - is that he has a trade in the works.

 

Given how bad Flowers has looked, given Bradley’s non-committal comments about FS, and given his unwillingness to touch the cap space he has, a possible trade we don’t know about is the only explanation for his inaction.

A trade is the ONLY explanation?   Really?  
 

How about moves the Colts will make after the three pre-season games?   How about moves the Colts will make at the cutdown day?    There are other options.   Just not options that fit the schedule of a number of members here, not just you.  
 

[krunk]

Cross played well tonight.

[GoColts8818]

Have to give credit where credit is due, Cross was good tonight.

[Hawkeyecolt]

9 hours ago, richard pallo said:

I think if he reads the play properly I don’t think that speed would matter much.  He should get a better jump and be ahead of the play.

If they didn’t make an offer to an All-Pro safety, they’re not offering Gilmore to play a position he’s never played.  Especially after training camp is over. 

[GoColts8818]

8 minutes ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

If they didn’t make an offer to an All-Pro safety, they’re not offering Gilmore to play a position he’s never played.  Especially after training camp is over. 

I think some are just desperate for a name they will try anything as long as it’s name and then if it fails blame Ballard like they never supported it.

[Yoshinator]

Cross did pretty decent tonight. Was hoping he'd make some sort of impact and he did. Let's see what happens in the 3rd preseason game if he can keep that momentum up.

[krunk]

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think some are just desperate for a name they will try anything as long as it’s name and then if it fails blame Ballard like they never supported it.

absolutely

[luv_pony_express]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

A trade is the ONLY explanation?   Really?  
 

How about moves the Colts will make after the three pre-season games?   How about moves the Colts will make at the cutdown day?    There are other options.   Just not options that fit the schedule of a number of members here, not just you.  
 

Explain what you mean by “moves.”  You mean FA signings?

 

Have you looked at who’s left in free agency?  Have you looked at who he’s passed up on….and how much they signed elsewhere for?