Why is Ballard not improving his Secondary?

[tfunky14]

8 minutes ago, Colt Overseas said:

Don't know if Simmons suits us to be honest. We usually play single high, Simmons is 31 years old now and ran a 4.6 40, not sure will he give us the range back there. I kind of understand why Ballard wants a thorough evaluation of Cross at FS before he makes a decision.

Agreed, a 31 year old is getting slower and injury is just a hamstring away. 

[krunk]

I told you guys before. The Colts showed their hand when they didn't draft a pure FS. If they wanted a vet in the competition they would have brought one in during traing camp just like they did with Mcleod. Get ready for Blackmon and Cross. Best you can hope for is upgrades on the depth behind them. Got a feeling they are going to keep Thomas though. Hoping they will upgrade on him but not the end of the world 

[Smonroe]

43 minutes ago, krunk said:

I told you guys before. The Colts showed their hand when they didn't draft a pure FS. If they wanted a vet in the competition they would have brought one in during traing camp just like they did with Mcleod. Get ready for Blackmon and Cross. Best you can hope for is upgrades on the depth behind them. Got a feeling they are going to keep Thomas though. Hoping they will upgrade on him but not the end of the world 

Cross got a lot of play and was pretty much adequate.  The issue, as you said, is what’s behind them. As well as what’s behind Kenny and the starting CBs.

 

I’m making the over/under on the number of games Brents finishes at 11.   And I’m taking the under.  

[krunk]

38 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

Cross got a lot of play and was pretty much adequate.  The issue, as you said, is what’s behind them. As well as what’s behind Kenny and the starting CBs.

 

I’m making the over/under on the number of games Brents finishes at 11.   And I’m taking the under.  

To get Simmons is to declare that you've given up on Cross. I Don't think the Colts have given up.

[TrueBlue4ever]

3 hours ago, krunk said:

To get Simmons is to declare that you've given up on Cross. I Don't think the Colts have given up.

Brent’s is fragile, I’m with you on the under. That pick is coming under scrutiny if he can’t stay on the field. 

[krunk]

44 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Brent’s is fragile, I’m with you on the under. That pick is coming under scrutiny if he can’t stay on the field. 

They probably thought the scrimmage was more important. Should see him this week

[krunk]

4 hours ago, Smonroe said:

Cross got a lot of play and was pretty much adequate.  The issue, as you said, is what’s behind them. As well as what’s behind Kenny and the starting CBs.

 

I’m making the over/under on the number of games Brents finishes at 11.   And I’m taking the under.  

I still like Dallas Flowers as backup behind J. Jones. Just has to finish shaking the rust off from the Achilles. I'm still feeling out Jaylon Simpson and we could probably upgrade on Baker. I like Micah Abraham as backup nickel, although I need to watch him more in coverage. The strip return was nice but his coverage is the main thing. I couldnt tell if he was on par or not. I think I've also seen Flowers play some nickel when he was healthy in a previous year. 

[richard pallo]

Gus said Cross was slow in reacting which led to him giving up that touchdown.  Let’s face it.  They have seen our safeties play and practice for a few years now.  Cross is still slow in reacting.  I think they have a real good understanding of who is making strides and who is not.  Cross doesn’t appear to be.  Maybe baby steps?  I’m not feeling good about baby steps after three years.  Unless he really plays lights out  the next few weeks I’m expecting a new player to be brought on to play FS. Hopefully.

[throwing BBZ]

On 8/13/2024 at 11:10 AM, krunk said:

To get Simmons is to declare that you've given up on Cross. I Don't think the Colts have given up. 

 

  Cross is the athlete we need back there.

 He must have been proving himself in the classroom and with effort.

 Come December, knock on wood, that he and Blackmon are playing really well together.

 And we will have to grade our corners and lb's for their play in front of them. 

[throwing BBZ]

On 8/13/2024 at 3:10 PM, krunk said:

I still like Dallas Flowers as backup behind J. Jones. Just has to finish shaking the rust off from the Achilles. I'm still feeling out Jaylon Simpson and we could probably upgrade on Baker. I like Micah Abraham as backup nickel, although I need to watch him more in coverage. The strip return was nice but his coverage is the main thing. I couldnt tell if he was on par or not. I think I've also seen Flowers play some nickel when he was healthy in a previous year. 

 

 Flowers was reason for hope in 23, not because he came with good coverage skills, for me it was because we had a jag with 4.3's recovery speed. He wasn't good out there but he wasn't Baker terrible.

 He reminded me of watching Leonard trying to come back. I could see practice squad to start the season.

[jvan1973]

On 8/13/2024 at 2:16 PM, TrueBlue4ever said:

Brent’s is fragile, I’m with you on the under. That pick is coming under scrutiny if he can’t stay on the field. 

Funny for an internet poster calling a professional athlete "fragile"

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Gus said Cross was slow in reacting which led to him giving up that touchdown.  Let’s face it.  They have seen our safeties play and practice for a few years now.  Cross is still slow in reacting.  I think they have a real good understanding of who is making strides and who is not.  Cross doesn’t appear to be.  Maybe baby steps?  I’m not feeling good about baby steps after three years.  Unless he really plays lights out  the next few weeks I’m expecting a new player to be brought on to play FS. Hopefully.

I think you’re way over-reacting to one quite about one play.   
 

I don't recall our coaches ever giving a quote about a player that would lead one to think that player is about to get cut, and then it happens. 

[NewColtsFan]

On 8/13/2024 at 8:10 AM, krunk said:

To get Simmons is to declare that you've given up on Cross. I Don't think the Colts have given up.

I believe the Colts play a lot of three safety looks.  So I don’t think signing Simmons means they’ve given up on Cross.   
 

Simmons, Cross, Blackmon.  

[krunk]

4 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Gus said Cross was slow in reacting which led to him giving up that touchdown.  Let’s face it.  They have seen our safeties play and practice for a few years now.  Cross is still slow in reacting.  I think they have a real good understanding of who is making strides and who is not.  Cross doesn’t appear to be.  Maybe baby steps?  I’m not feeling good about baby steps after three years.  Unless he really plays lights out  the next few weeks I’m expecting a new player to be brought on to play FS. Hopefully.

I thought he said he didn't get wide enough. Anyways you can do everything perfect on the goal line and still get beat. Overall he had a good game though.

[Dark Superman]

Looking back at Chris Ballard picking Malik Hooker in the first round as Colts GM. After dropping the ball on the Hooker pick, Ballard hasn't invested that much capital into the position. He finally ended up paying Julian Blackmon but could've easily lost him in FA this year. He refuses to bring in Justin Simmons or any veteran S period even after losing Daniel Scott for the season and seeing how bad the secondary has been throughout TC. He at least invested in guys like Xavier Rhodes and Stephon Gilmore in the past but for some reason won't budge in 2024 (when this should be the year that investing in a veteran player or two would make sense) because of the talent and coaching staff you have on the roster. Not to mention your franchise QB.

 

I just don't get Chris Ballard at all.

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, Dark Superman said:

Looking back at Chris Ballard picking Malik Hooker in the first round as Colts GM. After dropping the ball on the Hooker pick, Ballard hasn't invested that much capital into the position. He finally ended up paying Julian Blackmon but could've easily lost him in FA this year. He refuses to bring in Justin Simmons or any veteran S period even after losing Daniel Scott for the season and seeing how bad the secondary has been throughout TC. He at least invested in guys like Xavier Rhodes and Stephon Gilmore in the past but for some reason won't budge in 2024 (when this should be the year that investing in a veteran player or two would make sense) because of the talent and coaching staff you have on the roster. Not to mention your franchise QB.

 

I just don't get Chris Ballard at all.

Thankfully I have Superman vision to read this other wise it would take magnifying glass and a Homer eye ball to read it lol. 

[Patrick Miller]

Hopefully the Colts pass rush will make our porous secondary look better than  it is. But with Ebukam out I don’t think Latu is going to do it by himself. Paye and Dayo need to step up. Maybe someone will surprise us.

[Dark Superman]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Thankfully I have Superman vision to read this other wise it would take magnifying glass and a Homer eye ball to read it lol. 

My apologies!

[runthepost]

Well after the secondary was shredded during practice maybe they’ll make a move?

[John Hammonds]

After one preseason game and one practice against another team, I have to admit that I have second thoughts regarding our secondary.  Think about it.  Our best corner is a 2nd year 2nd round draft pick whose ceiling is -- competency.  I doubt JuJu will ever be an all pro.  I doubt he'll ever see the pro bowl.  And he's our best.  After that, it's a 2nd year 7th round pick, a 3rd year undrafted free agent coming off of an achilles injury, and a rookie 6th round pick.  Um...

 

And I can't help imagining if we'd done something different in this year's draft.  In the first round, we had the pick of any defensive player we wanted.  What if we'd taken one of the top corners, Quinyon Mitchell, Terrion Arnold, or Nate Wiggins with our first pick.  What if we'd not traded down in the 2nd round and instead had taken Tyler Nubin at 46.  Can you imagine what our secondary would look like this year?  CB Terrion Arnold, CB JuJu Brents, DB Kenny Moore, S Julian Blackmon, S Tyler Nubin.  Really.

 

And, yes, if we'd done that, we wouldn't be gushing over the overwhelming talent of Laiatu Latu or Adonai Mitchell.  Instead, we would be moaning about our starting DE's injury and its effect on our pass rush.  And the injury to Downs would be even more shocking.  We wouldn't be happy.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't regret taking Latu and Mitchell.  I love the guys.  And I think both of them will be multi-pro bowl players for the Colts.  But I can't help but wonder what might have been.

[Dingus McGirt]

While I agree with all the concern and angst - it's past time to move on from all the concern and angst with the associated hate and grousing.

 

As a former Defense Secretary once said (much to his detriment) "you go to war with the Army you have."  The Colts, as it stands now, are going forward with what they have.

 

I, for one, am going to get behind these guys - who will likely improve as the season wears on.

 

   That is all.  --Eagle Six, Out.

[Yoshinator]

12 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

After one preseason game and one practice against another team, I have to admit that I have second thoughts regarding our secondary.  Think about it.  Our best corner is a 2nd year 2nd round draft pick whose ceiling is -- competency.  I doubt JuJu will ever be an all pro.  I doubt he'll ever see the pro bowl.  And he's our best.  After that, it's a 2nd year 7th round pick, a 3rd year undrafted free agent coming off of an achilles injury, and a rookie 6th round pick.  Um...

 

And I can't help imagining if we'd done something different in this year's draft.  In the first round, we had the pick of any defensive player we wanted.  What if we'd taken one of the top corners, Quinyon Mitchell, Terrion Arnold, or Nate Wiggins with our first pick.  What if we'd not traded down in the 2nd round and instead had taken Tyler Nubin at 46.  Can you imagine what our secondary would look like this year?  CB Terrion Arnold, CB JuJu Brents, DB Kenny Moore, S Julian Blackmon, S Tyler Nubin.  Really.

 

And, yes, if we'd done that, we wouldn't be gushing over the overwhelming talent of Laiatu Latu or Adonai Mitchell.  Instead, we would be moaning about our starting DE's injury and its effect on our pass rush.  And the injury to Downs would be even more shocking.  We wouldn't be happy.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't regret taking Latu and Mitchell.  I love the guys.  And I think both of them will be multi-pro bowl players for the Colts.  But I can't help but wonder what might have been.

I was ok with avoiding the secondary for the most part in the draft until day 3 because of the quality of secondary players remaining in FA when the draft was over. Drafting the way Ballard did seemed contingent on signing someone and we didn't do so. It would be like getting paid $20 an hour at your job and being offered $30 an hour for any overtime you do and randomly deciding you would never work overtime because you have a set limit on how many hours you want to work (or in Ballards case, how much you want to spend in FA and how many veteran players to sign). 

 

Doesn't make sense when compared to other GMs who are filling holes in FA now and we are twiddling our thumbs hoping our guys work out in a couple games where they try and show their potential. 

[ColtStrong2013]

3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Thankfully I have Superman vision to read this other wise it would take magnifying glass and a Homer eye ball to read it lol. 

[ColtStrong2013]

22 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

After one preseason game and one practice against another team, I have to admit that I have second thoughts regarding our secondary.  Think about it.  Our best corner is a 2nd year 2nd round draft pick whose ceiling is -- competency.  I doubt JuJu will ever be an all pro.  I doubt he'll ever see the pro bowl.  And he's our best.  After that, it's a 2nd year 7th round pick, a 3rd year undrafted free agent coming off of an achilles injury, and a rookie 6th round pick.  Um...

 

And I can't help imagining if we'd done something different in this year's draft.  In the first round, we had the pick of any defensive player we wanted.  What if we'd taken one of the top corners, Quinyon Mitchell, Terrion Arnold, or Nate Wiggins with our first pick.  What if we'd not traded down in the 2nd round and instead had taken Tyler Nubin at 46.  Can you imagine what our secondary would look like this year?  CB Terrion Arnold, CB JuJu Brents, DB Kenny Moore, S Julian Blackmon, S Tyler Nubin.  Really.

 

And, yes, if we'd done that, we wouldn't be gushing over the overwhelming talent of Laiatu Latu or Adonai Mitchell.  Instead, we would be moaning about our starting DE's injury and its effect on our pass rush.  And the injury to Downs would be even more shocking.  We wouldn't be happy.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't regret taking Latu and Mitchell.  I love the guys.  And I think both of them will be multi-pro bowl players for the Colts.  But I can't help but wonder what might have been.

I often wonder this every year. This year it has a lot less effect with what we are seeing/hearing about Latu/Mitchell. I think Ballard got it right this year. We’ll see how those corners play. Might take them a few years where Latu is immediate impact player. In that case, we are ahead of the curve with Brents/Jones currently in year 2 of development. I just want to see us continue competing and getting better this season. Full year of AR and this dynamic creative offense I kept reading about. 
 

but. We need secondary help. Hopefully it happens. 

[tfunky14]

On 8/13/2024 at 9:44 AM, krunk said:

I told you guys before. The Colts showed their hand when they didn't draft a pure FS. If they wanted a vet in the competition they would have brought one in during traing camp just like they did with Mcleod. Get ready for Blackmon and Cross. Best you can hope for is upgrades on the depth behind them. Got a feeling they are going to keep Thomas though. Hoping they will upgrade on him but not the end of the world 

Bingo.   

[Solid84]

1 hour ago, John Hammonds said:

After one preseason game and one practice against another team, I have to admit that I have second thoughts regarding our secondary.  Think about it.  Our best corner is a 2nd year 2nd round draft pick whose ceiling is -- competency.  I doubt JuJu will ever be an all pro.  I doubt he'll ever see the pro bowl.  And he's our best.  After that, it's a 2nd year 7th round pick, a 3rd year undrafted free agent coming off of an achilles injury, and a rookie 6th round pick.  Um...

 

And I can't help imagining if we'd done something different in this year's draft.  In the first round, we had the pick of any defensive player we wanted.  What if we'd taken one of the top corners, Quinyon Mitchell, Terrion Arnold, or Nate Wiggins with our first pick.  What if we'd not traded down in the 2nd round and instead had taken Tyler Nubin at 46.  Can you imagine what our secondary would look like this year?  CB Terrion Arnold, CB JuJu Brents, DB Kenny Moore, S Julian Blackmon, S Tyler Nubin.  Really.

 

And, yes, if we'd done that, we wouldn't be gushing over the overwhelming talent of Laiatu Latu or Adonai Mitchell.  Instead, we would be moaning about our starting DE's injury and its effect on our pass rush.  And the injury to Downs would be even more shocking.  We wouldn't be happy.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't regret taking Latu and Mitchell.  I love the guys.  And I think both of them will be multi-pro bowl players for the Colts.  But I can't help but wonder what might have been.

I love our draft and was completely fine not going S or CB early, because I thought the best thing would be to add a couple solid veterans.

 

I hope our Dline can make up for what the secondary lacks, but we're facing a QB schedule that's lot more difficult this season than last and I have my doubts.

[TheNewGuy]

On 8/1/2024 at 7:40 PM, TheNewGuy said:

Lol, I was kidding but it looks as if I was correct...lol!

[richard pallo]

I would bet Ballard has been working the phones looking for some help.  It takes two to make a deal as we know.  Kent Sterling, on his podcast, said Ballard is rated as the best GM in winning trades.  Surprising but true apparently.  That includes the results of trading picks of course.  He knows what we have and where we need help.  Hard for me to see him doing nothing.  We could trade a TE or even Pierce not to mention a draft pick.  Still plenty of time to improve the team before the season starts.

[richard pallo]

Interesting that the Falcons have traded for Judon and are restructuring contracts to accommodate giving him a new deal.  Makes you wonder if they can no longer afford to bring in Simmons.  We shall see.

[throwing BBZ]

 Paye and Dayo "stepped-up" last season.

They should continue to improve, and with Latu scarring QB's the way he will, it should be the best Dline in Indy Colts history.

[Smonroe]

Today’s scrimmage has to be the decision maker for Ballard.  He said he wanted to see what we have at safety and didn’t rule out a move.  
 

Today is probably the last time they’ll face a starting QB.  I doubt Burrows plays next week.  
 

So, if the secondary gets shredded again, should we expect Simmons?

[GoColts8818]

I know this isn’t the answer people want but Ballard is known for being honest so it seems like the answer we are getting rather we like it or not.

 

 

[Boss7894]

6 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I know this isn’t the answer people want but Ballard is known for being honest so it seems like the answer we are getting rather we like it or not.

 

 

What if something happens to Cross?

[GoColts8818]

Just now, Boss7894 said:

What if something happens to Cross?

They would play Thomas or make a move then.  Ballard and the Colts have been pretty clear about they aren’t closing the door on making a move in the future they just aren’t doing it now.  

[throwing BBZ]

1 hour ago, tfunky14 said:

Bingo.   

 

 I appreciated Blackmon sharing with us novices how much he likes mixing it up playing both positions. All part of disguising coverages. 

 And he gave credit for his int from Jones successfully redirecting his WR.

 

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, John Hammonds said:

After one preseason game and one practice against another team, I have to admit that I have second thoughts regarding our secondary.  Think about it.  Our best corner is a 2nd year 2nd round draft pick whose ceiling is -- competency.  I doubt JuJu will ever be an all pro.  I doubt he'll ever see the pro bowl.  And he's our best.  After that, it's a 2nd year 7th round pick, a 3rd year undrafted free agent coming off of an achilles injury, and a rookie 6th round pick.  Um...

 

And I can't help imagining if we'd done something different in this year's draft.  In the first round, we had the pick of any defensive player we wanted.  What if we'd taken one of the top corners, Quinyon Mitchell, Terrion Arnold, or Nate Wiggins with our first pick.  What if we'd not traded down in the 2nd round and instead had taken Tyler Nubin at 46.  Can you imagine what our secondary would look like this year?  CB Terrion Arnold, CB JuJu Brents, DB Kenny Moore, S Julian Blackmon, S Tyler Nubin.  Really.

 

And, yes, if we'd done that, we wouldn't be gushing over the overwhelming talent of Laiatu Latu or Adonai Mitchell.  Instead, we would be moaning about our starting DE's injury and its effect on our pass rush.  And the injury to Downs would be even more shocking.  We wouldn't be happy.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't regret taking Latu and Mitchell.  I love the guys.  And I think both of them will be multi-pro bowl players for the Colts.  But I can't help but wonder what might have been.

You might be right on Brents.  But you don’t know.  You’re literally guessing.  So why would you write off a guys career like you’ve seen enough to know.  

[ColtStrong2013]

14 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

You might be right on Brents.  But you don’t know.  You’re literally guessing.  So why would you write off a guys career like you’ve seen enough to know.  

 

I don't necessarily disagree with him on Brents. But my feeling is, we don't need him to be an all-pro or even probowler. We just need consistent production and health. My problem with the secondary isn't necessarily in the starters, who i think are very young, have shown improvements, and ideally will continue to (especially with Latu living in the backfield)... My problem is with the depth of a unit that will have injuries and has the track record to almost prove that it will happen. Blackmon, Brents, Flowers... these guys have not shown the ability to be healthy yet. Maybe we'll get lucky with the secondaries health, but I wouldn't bank on it. I'm ok with letting the core group improve together over this season. I'm not ok with the depth behind them. 

[Smonroe]

14 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

You might be right on Brents.  But you don’t know.  You’re literally guessing.  So why would you write off a guys career like you’ve seen enough to know.  

I don’t agree that Brents our best CB, that’s Kenny.   But I do agree with him that Brents has a lot to prove, starting with staying healthy.  
 

Slower CBs have excelled in the league, like Sherman.  I think that’s Brent’s ceiling and if he can get there, he’d also be an all pro.  But for now, I’d take a steady, smart CB. 
 

What’s worrisome is that we’re really thin in that room.  Even worse in the safety room.  

[Yoshinator]

40 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I know this isn’t the answer people want but Ballard is known for being honest so it seems like the answer we are getting rather we like it or not.

 

 

Was going to order Youtube NFL Sunday Ticket for the first time, but now I have no interest in doing so. Apparently, Ballard has no interest in improving the secondary. Plenty of opportunities after the draft as the secondary positions were the strongest groups left in FA. Going to be a harder schedule now where any decent QB will shred us for 30+ points.

 

If Ballard doesn't care, why should I?

[TheNewGuy]

13 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

Was going to order Youtube NFL Sunday Ticket for the first time, but now I have no interest in doing so. Apparently, Ballard has no interest in improving the secondary. Plenty of opportunities after the draft as the secondary positions were the strongest groups left in FA. Going to be a harder schedule now where any decent QB will shred us for 30+ points.

 

If Ballard doesn't care, why should I?

Perhaps a strongly worded letter to him may sway his stance?