Potential/Average/Concern

[CR91]

It's the most quiet time of the season in terms of overall sports (Sorry baseball and golf fans) so I figured we can discuss position by position to see where there's potential, where we're gonna be pretty average, and where we have cause for concern. 

 

Potential 

 

QB - Easy one to start with as 12 quarters is hardly enough to gauge what AR is, but what he could be especially in Shane's offense still gets me excited. Keep in mind, AR scored 7 tds in 12 quarters which is essentially 7 tds in 3 games. In 17 games, that's approximately 40 tds which is insane and that was without Taylor in the backfield with him.

 

WR - Pittman clearly is the WR1, but the potential after him gets me very excited. Downs was coming into his own before he got hurt, Pierce hopefully can be used more in the passing game instead of just a decoy with AR back. I saw a funny statistic that Pierce ran the most miles throughout the season without getting targeted which can be taken as a good thing or a bad thing depending on how you want to interpret it. Mitchell really gets me excited. His catch radius is ridiculous. It's Hopkins like. I honestly think Mitchell gives us that big play potential our WR room is missing.

 

DL - imo, this is the best the dline has looked in Ballard's tenure. Buck is still one of the best DTs in the league, Grove is a monster in run defense and has improved his pass rush, and Paye, Dayo, and Ebukam almost each had double digit sacks. I get what everyone is gonna say, yes we had 51 sacks however it was sporadic especially in the final game of the season. I still think the potential is there to have one of the best units in the league and it's gonna get better with the additions of Latu and Raewkon Davis.

 

Average 

 

RB - I'm not talking about Taylor. I think he's poised for his best season since 21. I'm referring to the entire unit. Right now the backs behind Taylor are Sermon, Goodson, and Hull. If anything were to happen to Taylor, the room becomes a run at the mill group with different skill sets.

 

OL - While I do think the oline got better from 22 to 23, I think as an overall unit that the oline is average. Raimann did look good this season and Fries was steady, but I'm worried if health is getting to Nelson, Kelly, and Smith. I think Nelson first four years was a lot better then Nelson the last two years. Just seems like Nelson isn't the immovable object he use to be. I'm not saying he's not playing at a high level, but I do think he's dipped from where he use to be. Kelly for almost two years looked like he needed to retire, but looked much improved last season and hopefully he can stay healthy. Smith concerns me the most. Just constantly hurt and/or not playing at the level we've grown to expect from him. The depth is mostly young and inexperienced as well. While I do think our oline is still a good unit, it's not where it use to be in terms of position strength at this time.

 

TE - While we do have a lot of different types of TEs on the team to help stabilize the position, there are still question marks. Granson imo is our best TE in terms being able to move everywhere on the field. Olgetree seems to be a very good blocker and can bust the seem. Woods flashed as a rookie, but was hurt last year. MAC I see more as another olinemen. He can make plays in the passing game, but his value is more at blocking. Mallory is your traditional find an open spot in the defense and sit there as a safety valve. Collectively, they each bring something to the table, but the room doesn't have that TE1 presence imo.

 

Concern

 

S - I think this is everyone's concern as imo it's the weakest unit on the team. Blackmon returning does help, however Cross and Thomas have not proven either one can start full time and the only other potential starter at S is Ronnie Harrison. I would like to believe eventually Ballard will sign Simmons or Diggs. 

 

CB - While I do think Brents and Jones played really well as rookies, this unit concerns me as the room is made up of mostly second and third year players with Kenny being the lone vet. Flowers returning can definitely help as I thought he was playing very well before he got hurt, but the fifth and sixth CB spots imo are completely open.

 

LB - Yes Franklin has established himself as the best LB on the team, there really isn't much depth afterwards. This will be the first season Speed is the full-time starter, Oubi and Stuard are more for STs, and Carlies is converting from S to LB.

[Smonroe]

You nailed it @CR91  
 

This isn’t as much a concern as an uncertainty- for every team:  How well will we do with the new kickoff rules?  Both receiving and covering.  

[CR91]

12 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

You nailed it @CR91  
 

This isn’t as much a concern as an uncertainty- for every team:  How well will we do with the new kickoff rules?  Both receiving and covering.  

 

I can't really say much about that since I'm not that educated about the new rules, but from I do understand I think teams will just long drive kicks down the middle to give the receiving team last time to set up their blocks. I don't think anyone can move until the KR has the ball

[Yoshinator]

58 minutes ago, CR91 said:

It's the most quiet time of the season in terms of overall sports (Sorry baseball and golf fans) so I figured we can discuss position by position to see where there's potential, where we're gonna be pretty average, and where we have cause for concern. 

 

Potential 

 

QB - Easy one to start with as 12 quarters is hardly enough to gauge what AR is, but what he could be especially in Shane's offense still gets me excited. Keep in mind, AR scored 7 tds in 12 quarters which is essentially 7 tds in 3 games. In 17 games, that's approximately 40 tds which is insane and that was without Taylor in the backfield with him.

 

WR - Pittman clearly is the WR1, but the potential after him gets me very excited. Downs was coming into his own before he got hurt, Pierce hopefully can be used more in the passing game instead of just a decoy with AR back. I saw a funny statistic that Pierce ran the most miles throughout the season without getting targeted which can be taken as a good thing or a bad thing depending on how you want to interpret it. Mitchell really gets me excited. His catch radius is ridiculous. It's Hopkins like. I honestly think Mitchell gives us that big play potential our WR room is missing.

 

DL - imo, this is the best the dline has looked in Ballard's tenure. Buck is still one of the best DTs in the league, Grove is a monster in run defense and has improved his pass rush, and Paye, Dayo, and Ebukam almost each had double digit sacks. I get what everyone is gonna say, yes we had 51 sacks however it was sporadic especially in the final game of the season. I still think the potential is there to have one of the best units in the league and it's gonna get better with the additions of Latu and Raewkon Davis.

 

Average 

 

RB - I'm not talking about Taylor. I think he's poised for his best season since 21. I'm referring to the entire unit. Right now the backs behind Taylor are Sermon, Goodson, and Hull. If anything were to happen to Taylor, the room becomes a run at the mill group with different skill sets.

 

OL - While I do think the oline got better from 22 to 23, I think as an overall unit that the oline is average. Raimann did look good this season and Fries was steady, but I'm worried if health is getting to Nelson, Kelly, and Smith. I think Nelson first four years was a lot better then Nelson the last two years. Just seems like Nelson isn't the immovable object he use to be. I'm not saying he's not playing at a high level, but I do think he's dipped from where he use to be. Kelly for almost two years looked like he needed to retire, but looked much improved last season and hopefully he can stay healthy. Smith concerns me the most. Just constantly hurt and/or not playing at the level we've grown to expect from him. The depth is mostly young and inexperienced as well. While I do think our oline is still a good unit, it's not where it use to be in terms of position strength at this time.

 

TE - While we do have a lot of different types of TEs on the team to help stabilize the position, there are still question marks. Granson imo is our best TE in terms being able to move everywhere on the field. Olgetree seems to be a very good blocker and can bust the seem. Woods flashed as a rookie, but was hurt last year. MAC I see more as another olinemen. He can make plays in the passing game, but his value is more at blocking. Mallory is your traditional find an open spot in the defense and sit there as a safety valve. Collectively, they each bring something to the table, but the room doesn't have that TE1 presence imo.

 

Concern

 

S - I think this is everyone's concern as imo it's the weakest unit on the team. Blackmon returning does help, however Cross and Thomas have not proven either one can start full time and the only other potential starter at S is Ronnie Harrison. I would like to believe eventually Ballard will sign Simmons or Diggs. 

 

CB - While I do think Brents and Jones played really well as rookies, this unit concerns me as the room is made up of mostly second and third year players with Kenny being the lone vet. Flowers returning can definitely help as I thought he was playing very well before he got hurt, but the fifth and sixth CB spots imo are completely open.

 

LB - Yes Franklin has established himself as the best LB on the team, there really isn't much depth afterwards. This will be the first season Speed is the full-time starter, Oubi and Stuard are more for STs, and Carlies is converting from S to LB.

I agree with most of this. I would switch TE and LB. The TE's are trash until proven otherwise IMO. No one is a no1 TE on any team that we have. It's all a bunch of what ifs that have potential. Like throwing darts at a dartboard. 

 

The LBers are actually average IMO. Franklin and Speed are pretty solid, and there is potential for good depth. I'd rather us be in a position where we have potential for good depth than a situation at TE where there's 4 guys who might be good enough to be a no1 on the team.

[CR91]

30 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

I agree with most of this. I would switch TE and LB. The TE's are trash until proven otherwise IMO. No one is a no1 TE on any team that we have. It's all a bunch of what ifs that have potential. Like throwing darts at a dartboard. 

 

The LBers are actually average IMO. Franklin and Speed are pretty solid, and there is potential for good depth. I'd rather us be in a position where we have potential for good depth than a situation at TE where there's 4 guys who might be good enough to be a no1 on the team.

 

TE atleast have players that have produced. Can't say the same thing about the LBers. Franklin and Speed are the only LBers on the team I trust to play significant snaps 

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, CR91 said:

It's the most quiet time of the season in terms of overall sports (Sorry baseball and golf fans) so I figured we can discuss position by position to see where there's potential, where we're gonna be pretty average, and where we have cause for concern. 

 

Potential 

 

QB - Easy one to start with as 12 quarters is hardly enough to gauge what AR is, but what he could be especially in Shane's offense still gets me excited. Keep in mind, AR scored 7 tds in 12 quarters which is essentially 7 tds in 3 games. In 17 games, that's approximately 40 tds which is insane and that was without Taylor in the backfield with him.

 

WR - Pittman clearly is the WR1, but the potential after him gets me very excited. Downs was coming into his own before he got hurt, Pierce hopefully can be used more in the passing game instead of just a decoy with AR back. I saw a funny statistic that Pierce ran the most miles throughout the season without getting targeted which can be taken as a good thing or a bad thing depending on how you want to interpret it. Mitchell really gets me excited. His catch radius is ridiculous. It's Hopkins like. I honestly think Mitchell gives us that big play potential our WR room is missing.

 

DL - imo, this is the best the dline has looked in Ballard's tenure. Buck is still one of the best DTs in the league, Grove is a monster in run defense and has improved his pass rush, and Paye, Dayo, and Ebukam almost each had double digit sacks. I get what everyone is gonna say, yes we had 51 sacks however it was sporadic especially in the final game of the season. I still think the potential is there to have one of the best units in the league and it's gonna get better with the additions of Latu and Raewkon Davis.

 

Average 

 

RB - I'm not talking about Taylor. I think he's poised for his best season since 21. I'm referring to the entire unit. Right now the backs behind Taylor are Sermon, Goodson, and Hull. If anything were to happen to Taylor, the room becomes a run at the mill group with different skill sets.

 

OL - While I do think the oline got better from 22 to 23, I think as an overall unit that the oline is average. Raimann did look good this season and Fries was steady, but I'm worried if health is getting to Nelson, Kelly, and Smith. I think Nelson first four years was a lot better then Nelson the last two years. Just seems like Nelson isn't the immovable object he use to be. I'm not saying he's not playing at a high level, but I do think he's dipped from where he use to be. Kelly for almost two years looked like he needed to retire, but looked much improved last season and hopefully he can stay healthy. Smith concerns me the most. Just constantly hurt and/or not playing at the level we've grown to expect from him. The depth is mostly young and inexperienced as well. While I do think our oline is still a good unit, it's not where it use to be in terms of position strength at this time.

 

TE - While we do have a lot of different types of TEs on the team to help stabilize the position, there are still question marks. Granson imo is our best TE in terms being able to move everywhere on the field. Olgetree seems to be a very good blocker and can bust the seem. Woods flashed as a rookie, but was hurt last year. MAC I see more as another olinemen. He can make plays in the passing game, but his value is more at blocking. Mallory is your traditional find an open spot in the defense and sit there as a safety valve. Collectively, they each bring something to the table, but the room doesn't have that TE1 presence imo.

 

Concern

 

S - I think this is everyone's concern as imo it's the weakest unit on the team. Blackmon returning does help, however Cross and Thomas have not proven either one can start full time and the only other potential starter at S is Ronnie Harrison. I would like to believe eventually Ballard will sign Simmons or Diggs. 

 

CB - While I do think Brents and Jones played really well as rookies, this unit concerns me as the room is made up of mostly second and third year players with Kenny being the lone vet. Flowers returning can definitely help as I thought he was playing very well before he got hurt, but the fifth and sixth CB spots imo are completely open.

 

LB - Yes Franklin has established himself as the best LB on the team, there really isn't much depth afterwards. This will be the first season Speed is the full-time starter, Oubi and Stuard are more for STs, and Carlies is converting from S to LB.

Funny how people see the same thing differently.   You think the Colts OL is average.   Average?!?    To me, that’s jaw dropping.  
 

You could make an easy argument that listing QB as you do is nothing more than Fan Boy cheer leading.  Richardson played less than 200 snaps.  In essence, he’s still a rookie.  
 

But I can’t get over listing the OL as average.  Hey, it’s your post.  You set it up with Potential, Average and Concern.   And by doing so I think you’ve painted yourself into a corner.   The Colts offensive line is AVERAGE?!?   Shaking my head doesn’t begin to cover it.   

[CR91]

8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Funny how people see the same thing differently.   You think the Colts OL is average.   Average?!?    To me, that’s jaw dropping.  
 

You could make an easy argument that listing QB as you do is nothing more than Fan Boy cheer leading.  Richardson played less than 200 snaps.  In essence, he’s still a rookie.  
 

But I can’t get over listing the OL as average.  Hey, it’s your post.  You set it up with Potential, Average and Concern.   And by doing so I think you’ve painted yourself into a corner.   The Colts offensive line is AVERAGE?!?   Shaking my head doesn’t begin to cover it.   

 

You gotta understand I'm talking as a whole and I said they got better from 22, but there are still concerns. This isnt the 2020 or 2021 oline that was dominate anymore. Injuries have taken it's toll on Nelson, Kelly, and Smith and the depth behind them are young and inexperience. Average doesn't mean their bad, but imo it's not the position of strength it use to be.

 

As for fanboy cheerleader about AR, I gave a legit statistic is to why theirs potential. How is that being a fan boy? I didn't say AR is gonna be MVP. I just said I'm excited about the potential.

[jvan1973]

3 hours ago, Yoshinator said:

I agree with most of this. I would switch TE and LB. The TE's are trash until proven otherwise IMO. No one is a no1 TE on any team that we have. It's all a bunch of what ifs that have potential. Like throwing darts at a dartboard. 

 

The LBers are actually average IMO. Franklin and Speed are pretty solid, and there is potential for good depth. I'd rather us be in a position where we have potential for good depth than a situation at TE where there's 4 guys who might be good enough to be a no1 on the team.

Imagine calling professional athletes "trash".   I really don't get that mindset.   Those kids have accomplished more professionally than most people ever will.   Yet they are trash.  Imagine if they critiqued your life. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

1 minute ago, CR91 said:

 

You gotta understand I'm talking as a whole and I said they got better from 22, but there are still concerns. This isnt the 2020 or 2021 oline that was dominate anymore. Injuries have taken it's toll on Nelson, Kelly, and Smith and the depth behind them are young and inexperience. Average doesn't mean their bad, but imo it's not the position of strength it use to be.

 

As for fanboy cheerleader about AR, I gave a legit statistic is to why theirs potential. How is that being a fan boy? I didn't say AR is gonna be MVP. I just said I'm excited about the potential.

imo your post was very realistic and some posters on here just like to call other posters names and make snide remarks to whatever you say, this makes them feel important, I dont respond to their name calling and snide remarks and feed their self importance

[jvan1973]

4 hours ago, CR91 said:

It's the most quiet time of the season in terms of overall sports (Sorry baseball and golf fans) so I figured we can discuss position by position to see where there's potential, where we're gonna be pretty average, and where we have cause for concern. 

 

Potential 

 

QB - Easy one to start with as 12 quarters is hardly enough to gauge what AR is, but what he could be especially in Shane's offense still gets me excited. Keep in mind, AR scored 7 tds in 12 quarters which is essentially 7 tds in 3 games. In 17 games, that's approximately 40 tds which is insane and that was without Taylor in the backfield with him.

 

WR - Pittman clearly is the WR1, but the potential after him gets me very excited. Downs was coming into his own before he got hurt, Pierce hopefully can be used more in the passing game instead of just a decoy with AR back. I saw a funny statistic that Pierce ran the most miles throughout the season without getting targeted which can be taken as a good thing or a bad thing depending on how you want to interpret it. Mitchell really gets me excited. His catch radius is ridiculous. It's Hopkins like. I honestly think Mitchell gives us that big play potential our WR room is missing.

 

DL - imo, this is the best the dline has looked in Ballard's tenure. Buck is still one of the best DTs in the league, Grove is a monster in run defense and has improved his pass rush, and Paye, Dayo, and Ebukam almost each had double digit sacks. I get what everyone is gonna say, yes we had 51 sacks however it was sporadic especially in the final game of the season. I still think the potential is there to have one of the best units in the league and it's gonna get better with the additions of Latu and Raewkon Davis.

 

Average 

 

RB - I'm not talking about Taylor. I think he's poised for his best season since 21. I'm referring to the entire unit. Right now the backs behind Taylor are Sermon, Goodson, and Hull. If anything were to happen to Taylor, the room becomes a run at the mill group with different skill sets.

 

OL - While I do think the oline got better from 22 to 23, I think as an overall unit that the oline is average. Raimann did look good this season and Fries was steady, but I'm worried if health is getting to Nelson, Kelly, and Smith. I think Nelson first four years was a lot better then Nelson the last two years. Just seems like Nelson isn't the immovable object he use to be. I'm not saying he's not playing at a high level, but I do think he's dipped from where he use to be. Kelly for almost two years looked like he needed to retire, but looked much improved last season and hopefully he can stay healthy. Smith concerns me the most. Just constantly hurt and/or not playing at the level we've grown to expect from him. The depth is mostly young and inexperienced as well. While I do think our oline is still a good unit, it's not where it use to be in terms of position strength at this time.

 

TE - While we do have a lot of different types of TEs on the team to help stabilize the position, there are still question marks. Granson imo is our best TE in terms being able to move everywhere on the field. Olgetree seems to be a very good blocker and can bust the seem. Woods flashed as a rookie, but was hurt last year. MAC I see more as another olinemen. He can make plays in the passing game, but his value is more at blocking. Mallory is your traditional find an open spot in the defense and sit there as a safety valve. Collectively, they each bring something to the table, but the room doesn't have that TE1 presence imo.

 

Concern

 

S - I think this is everyone's concern as imo it's the weakest unit on the team. Blackmon returning does help, however Cross and Thomas have not proven either one can start full time and the only other potential starter at S is Ronnie Harrison. I would like to believe eventually Ballard will sign Simmons or Diggs. 

 

CB - While I do think Brents and Jones played really well as rookies, this unit concerns me as the room is made up of mostly second and third year players with Kenny being the lone vet. Flowers returning can definitely help as I thought he was playing very well before he got hurt, but the fifth and sixth CB spots imo are completely open.

 

LB - Yes Franklin has established himself as the best LB on the team, there really isn't much depth afterwards. This will be the first season Speed is the full-time starter, Oubi and Stuard are more for STs, and Carlies is converting from S to LB.

I'm on board with this

[Yoshinator]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

Imagine calling professional athletes "trash".   I really don't get that mindset.   Those kids have accomplished more professionally than most people ever will.   Yet they are trash.  Imagine if they critiqued your life. 

They are trash compared to their peers at the NFL level that are also starters at their position. I thought this was obvious. Not sure why you are comparing them to me. Just like I mention with Ballard, they are not competing against me or any "fan", they are compared to other starting TEs at the NFL level. Most of which are better than them. I don't sugercoat things. Any of our TE's would be considered a bottom 5 TE starter in the NFL. That's just a fact. Every team is weak at certain positions. One of our weaknesses is TE, and yes, they are trash relative to the other starting TEs in the NFL.

[John Hammonds]

34 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Funny how people see the same thing differently.   You think the Colts OL is average.   Average?!?    To me, that’s jaw dropping.  
 

You could make an easy argument that listing QB as you do is nothing more than Fan Boy cheer leading.  Richardson played less than 200 snaps.  In essence, he’s still a rookie.  
 

But I can’t get over listing the OL as average.  Hey, it’s your post.  You set it up with Potential, Average and Concern.   And by doing so I think you’ve painted yourself into a corner.   The Colts offensive line is AVERAGE?!?   Shaking my head doesn’t begin to cover it.   

I'm gonna defend @CR91 on this one.

 

The Colts offensive line has the potential to be a top-5 line.  If everyone plays to their potential.  Their tippy-top.

However...

Ryan Kelly has already seen his best years.  He's still a stout, capable center.  But let's not fool ourselves.  His trajectory is down, not up.  Nothing wrong with it.  It's just the natural curve of a player who has been in the league this long.

Nelson isn't quite the world beater that he started out as.  Yes, he could regain that level of play.  And I hope he does!  But until he does, his level is good-but-not-great.  If we're being honest.

Raimann made great strides.  And there's still room for him to improve!  However, my assessment is his ceiling is Anthony Costanzo:  Solid and reliable, without ever making a pro bowl.

Will Fries has yet to prove to me that he is truly starter material.  He's the best of what we have at RG, for the moment.  And we just drafted a couple of guys who could challenge him for a starting role -- this year.

I love Smith.  He's done everything we asked him to do.  Except stay healthy.

 

If everything works out, and the line plays to their top potential, they'll be a top OL in the league.  But if we're talking about predictions rather than potential, I see them at the upper end of middle.  Nothing to be unhappy about!  Especially after the debacle '22 season.  But I'm ok with predicting them to be "average".

[CR91]

43 minutes ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

imo your post was very realistic and some posters on here just like to call other posters names and make snide remarks to whatever you say, this makes them feel important, I dont respond to their name calling and snide remarks and feed their self importance

 

I understand his frustration, but unfortunately this isnt the same oline that was dominate in their heyday 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, John Hammonds said:

I'm gonna defend @CR91 on this one.

 

The Colts offensive line has the potential to be a top-5 line.  If everyone plays to their potential.  Their tippy-top.

However...

Ryan Kelly has already seen his best years.  He's still a stout, capable center.  But let's not fool ourselves.  His trajectory is down, not up.  Nothing wrong with it.  It's just the natural curve of a player who has been in the league this long.

Nelson isn't quite the world beater that he started out as.  Yes, he could regain that level of play.  And I hope he does!  But until he does, his level is good-but-not-great.  If we're being honest.

Raimann made great strides.  And there's still room for him to improve!  However, my assessment is his ceiling is Anthony Costanzo:  Solid and reliable, without ever making a pro bowl.

Will Fries has yet to prove to me that he is truly starter material.  He's the best of what we have at RG, for the moment.  And we just drafted a couple of guys who could challenge him for a starting role -- this year.

I love Smith.  He's done everything we asked him to do.  Except stay healthy.

 

If everything works out, and the line plays to their top potential, they'll be a top OL in the league.  But if we're talking about predictions rather than potential, I see them at the upper end of middle.  Nothing to be unhappy about!  Especially after the debacle '22 season.  But I'm ok with predicting them to be "average".

Sorry, JH, there’s almost nothing I agree with.   The OL may not be top-5 but still top-10.    And top-10 is fine. 
 

Your first sentence basically was they’re not top-5, therefore they’re average is just an opinion.   And it’s not supported by anything. 
 

The Colts OL is top-10 by everyone who ranks them.  
 

And the concept of guys trending down or not being what they used to be isn’t the issue.   It’s what are they today.   What are they this season, not in the long term, what are they this year.   
 

Kelly just had one of his best years.  Nelson had a good year, ranked 11th overall by PFF.   Smith also graded well.   And even Fries graded out in the top 40 percent of ALL guards.  Overall the line is top-10. 
 

You and I often see things the same way.  Just not this time.  

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

 

You gotta understand I'm talking as a whole and I said they got better from 22, but there are still concerns. This isnt the 2020 or 2021 oline that was dominate anymore. Injuries have taken it's toll on Nelson, Kelly, and Smith and the depth behind them are young and inexperience. Average doesn't mean their bad, but imo it's not the position of strength it use to be.

 

As for fanboy cheerleader about AR, I gave a legit statistic is to why theirs potential. How is that being a fan boy? I didn't say AR is gonna be MVP. I just said I'm excited about the potential.

As to the legit stat,  you took a very very small sample (about 15 percent of the season) and based on that one stat you extrapolated it into a season long projection.  Who does that?  It’s why someone came up with the expression of “Lies,  Damn Lies, and Statistics.”   
 

And as I stated, it’s your format that trapped you.   Only three categories.   If you had allowed for more, like “above average”, then you wouldn’t have painted yourself into a corner.  You stated the line isn’t as good as it was in 18 and 19,  so you listed them as average.  As I noted to John Hammonds,  the line is ranked top-10 by everyone who ranks lines:  PFF, ESPN, and NFL.Com.    They can still be top-10 even if they’re not as dominant as 18 and 19.   And top-10 isn’t average in any NFL universe. 
 

Sorry, not trying to be harsh with you.   I appreciate the effort you took to create something fun for all of us.  I just think you over-thought this.

[CR91]

12 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

As to the legit stat,  you took a very very small sample (about 15 percent of the season) and based on that one stat you extrapolated it into a season long projection.  Who does that?  It’s why someone came up with the expression of “Lies,  Damn Lies, and Statistics.”   
 

And as I stated, it’s your format that trapped you.   Only three categories.   If you had allowed for more, like “above average”, then you wouldn’t have painted yourself into a corner.  You stated the line isn’t as good as it was in 18 and 19,  so you listed them as average.  As I noted to John Hammonds,  the line is ranked top-10 by everyone who ranks lines:  PFF, ESPN, and NFL.Com.    They can still be top-10 even if they’re not as dominant as 18 and 19.   And top-10 isn’t average in any NFL universe. 
 

Sorry, not trying to be harsh with you.   I appreciate the effort you took to create something fun for all of us.  I just think you over-thought this.

 

I took his tds and made a season long projection. In what way am I lying? He scored 7 tds and only finished two games. ( Counting the jags game). How is that not impressive?

 

I actually said 20 and 21 which imo were their best years, but I think you're taking the term average too harshly. I'm not saying their bad. Like I said, I'm looking at the line as a group not just Nelson, Kelly, and Smith and my main concern was health not their ability. They have all dealt with injuries and have either played hurt or missed time. I also mentioned how the depth is inexperienced. Our depth consist of two rookies and second year player. Pinter is coming back from injury and French is ok. If you wanna call them above average, fine.

[smittywerb]

6 hours ago, Yoshinator said:

I agree with most of this. I would switch TE and LB. The TE's are trash until proven otherwise IMO. No one is a no1 TE on any team that we have. It's all a bunch of what ifs that have potential. Like throwing darts at a dartboard. 

 

The LBers are actually average IMO. Franklin and Speed are pretty solid, and there is potential for good depth. I'd rather us be in a position where we have potential for good depth than a situation at TE where there's 4 guys who might be good enough to be a no1 on the team.

TBH, a hot take I have this season is that the TEs will actually flourish (given health).  Remember, last season it was at one point the TEs were out producing the WRs with checkdown Charlie Minshew.  Imagine what they can do when the field opens up with ARs arm and hopefully a big play WR room with Pierce and AD.  Woods is in the same boat as AR now.  Boatloads of potential and flashes but haven’t seen it because of health.  

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

I took his tds and made a season long projection. In what way am I lying? He scored 7 tds and only finished two games. ( Counting the jags game). How is that not impressive?

 

I actually said 20 and 21 which imo were their best years, but I think you're taking the term average too harshly. I'm not saying their bad. Like I said, I'm looking at the line as a group not just Nelson, Kelly, and Smith and my main concern was health not their ability. They have all dealt with injuries and have either played hurt or missed time. I also mentioned how the depth is inexperienced. Our depth consist of two rookies and second year player. Pinter is coming back from injury and French is ok. If you wanna call them above average, fine.

You continue to read too much into a state based on a tiny portion of the season.  As if AR would’ve been a lock to continue at that pace.  Odds are, he wouldn’t have.  
 

As to the OL,  you missed your own point.  You called them average.  When they’re a top-10 unit.   That goes back to my original observation.  You created this post behind a flawed concept that forced you into calling them average when they’re not.  That’s a real flaw.   Sorry. 

[CR91]

6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

You continue to read too much into a state based on a tiny portion of the season.  As if AR would’ve been a lock to continue at that pace.  Odds are, he wouldn’t have.  
 

As to the OL,  you missed your own point.  You called them average.  When they’re a top-10 unit.   That goes back to my original observation.  You created this post behind a flawed concept that forced you into calling them average when they’re not.  That’s a real flaw.   Sorry. 

 

Obviously he wasn't scoring 40 tds. I'm just using it to show his potential. What did you want me to use with such a small portion size?

 

Again if you want to label them as top 10 or above average, go ahead. I said my piece and I'm gonna leave it at that.

[Solid84]

Honestly, you could probably place AR in both potential and concern depending on your angle. I think the Oline is better than average and at this point I think the Dline is a little overrated. 
 

Our secondary is a big concern to me though. 

[John Hammonds]

12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Sorry, JH, there’s almost nothing I agree with.   The OL may not be top-5 but still top-10.    And top-10 is fine. 
 

Your first sentence basically was they’re not top-5, therefore they’re average is just an opinion.   And it’s not supported by anything. 
 

The Colts OL is top-10 by everyone who ranks them.  
 

And the concept of guys trending down or not being what they used to be isn’t the issue.   It’s what are they today.   What are they this season, not in the long term, what are they this year.   
 

Kelly just had one of his best years.  Nelson had a good year, ranked 11th overall by PFF.   Smith also graded well.   And even Fries graded out in the top 40 percent of ALL guards.  Overall the line is top-10. 
 

You and I often see things the same way.  Just not this time.  

That's ok.  We can differ in our opinion.

And - as an added bonus, we're not that far apart.  You're assessment they are "top 10" and my assessment that they are in the upper range of "average".  That would place them somewhere around 12 or so.  (Assuming average is the middle third of the league).

Always good to trade ideas and opinions with you!

[MikeCurtis]

19 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

Concern

 

S - I think this is everyone's concern as imo it's the weakest unit on the team. Blackmon returning does help, however Cross and Thomas have not proven either one can start full time and the only other potential starter at S is Ronnie Harrison. I would like to believe eventually Ballard will sign Simmons or Diggs. 

 

CB - While I do think Brents and Jones played really well as rookies, this unit concerns me as the room is made up of mostly second and third year players with Kenny being the lone vet. Flowers returning can definitely help as I thought he was playing very well before he got hurt, but the fifth and sixth CB spots imo are completely open.

 

LB - Yes Franklin has established himself as the best LB on the team, there really isn't much depth afterwards. This will be the first season Speed is the full-time starter, Oubi and Stuard are more for STs, and Carlies is converting from S to LB.

Thanks for the write up

 

I’m surprised that we didn’t grab a FS after Scott went down

 

With Scott, I felt the group was lacking…..  now it’s a real problem (IMHO)

 

Im glad you also added LB as a concern

 

I hope we add to this group in camp via trade or FA pickup after cuts. 
 

We can get by with this core, but we need some added talent

 

im less concerned with CB, Especially if we get them aircover with an excellent FS

 

Thanks again for the write up

 

 

 

 

 

[TheNewGuy]

My 2 cents, 4 counting inflation, on the O-Line...

 

 While I agree with @CR91 regarding injury issues, I also agree with @NewColtsFan that the line is above average. Talk about straddling the fence, lol!  They both make valid points though.

 

LT: Raimann got a late start in college football due to mandatory military service in Austria. He played his first two seasons as a Tight End before being converted into a Tackle. So he was late in the game at LT coming out of college, 25 at the start of his rookie season. That could be either good or bad, meaning he has room to grow or he may be at his ceiling. I am of the belief he has room to ascend and will.

 

LG: Q isn't the player that the Colts drafted due to injuries, though he seemed to turn the corner last year. I am of the belief that he will continue to ascend to near All Pro status, though it is tempered.

 

C; Kelly bounced back last year from injuries, family issues, and concussions(yes, they could be considered injuries). I am of the belief that he will be one of the better Centers in the game this year, though Bortolini may be waiting in the wings.

 

RG: Fries is considered the "weak link" but played reasonably well last year. Another ascending year is very possible and most likely will price him out of the Colts plans in 2025, especially with Concalves and Bortolini as possible replacements.

 

RT: Smith showed a warriors heart playing injured last year and hopefully his offseason surgery corrected the issue. He has a 19+ million dollar cap hit next year, so there is extra incentive for him to perform to it and hopefully an extension.

 

Bench: Concalves and Bortolini come in with solid press clippings, and the ability to play more than one position, but have to show it at the pro level, I believe they will. Freeland was shown the baptism by fire treatment and had mixed results. Let's hope he learned from his mistakes and worked on his strength, as the Swing Tackle spot is up for grabs. I don't rule out a veteran FA to take that spot though, plus Witt is a relative unknown quantity due to missing his rookie campaign.

 

 In conclusion, I could see a very good and deep Offensive Line, though injury and experience concerns are definitely something to be aware of. 

[CoachLite]

20 hours ago, CR91 said:

It's the most quiet time of the season in terms of overall sports (Sorry baseball and golf fans) so I figured we can discuss position by position to see where there's potential, where we're gonna be pretty average, and where we have cause for concern. 

 

Potential 

 

QB - Easy one to start with as 12 quarters is hardly enough to gauge what AR is, but what he could be especially in Shane's offense still gets me excited. Keep in mind, AR scored 7 tds in 12 quarters which is essentially 7 tds in 3 games. In 17 games, that's approximately 40 tds which is insane and that was without Taylor in the backfield with him.

 

WR - Pittman clearly is the WR1, but the potential after him gets me very excited. Downs was coming into his own before he got hurt, Pierce hopefully can be used more in the passing game instead of just a decoy with AR back. I saw a funny statistic that Pierce ran the most miles throughout the season without getting targeted which can be taken as a good thing or a bad thing depending on how you want to interpret it. Mitchell really gets me excited. His catch radius is ridiculous. It's Hopkins like. I honestly think Mitchell gives us that big play potential our WR room is missing.

 

DL - imo, this is the best the dline has looked in Ballard's tenure. Buck is still one of the best DTs in the league, Grove is a monster in run defense and has improved his pass rush, and Paye, Dayo, and Ebukam almost each had double digit sacks. I get what everyone is gonna say, yes we had 51 sacks however it was sporadic especially in the final game of the season. I still think the potential is there to have one of the best units in the league and it's gonna get better with the additions of Latu and Raewkon Davis.

 

Average 

 

RB - I'm not talking about Taylor. I think he's poised for his best season since 21. I'm referring to the entire unit. Right now the backs behind Taylor are Sermon, Goodson, and Hull. If anything were to happen to Taylor, the room becomes a run at the mill group with different skill sets.

 

OL - While I do think the oline got better from 22 to 23, I think as an overall unit that the oline is average. Raimann did look good this season and Fries was steady, but I'm worried if health is getting to Nelson, Kelly, and Smith. I think Nelson first four years was a lot better then Nelson the last two years. Just seems like Nelson isn't the immovable object he use to be. I'm not saying he's not playing at a high level, but I do think he's dipped from where he use to be. Kelly for almost two years looked like he needed to retire, but looked much improved last season and hopefully he can stay healthy. Smith concerns me the most. Just constantly hurt and/or not playing at the level we've grown to expect from him. The depth is mostly young and inexperienced as well. While I do think our oline is still a good unit, it's not where it use to be in terms of position strength at this time.

 

TE - While we do have a lot of different types of TEs on the team to help stabilize the position, there are still question marks. Granson imo is our best TE in terms being able to move everywhere on the field. Olgetree seems to be a very good blocker and can bust the seem. Woods flashed as a rookie, but was hurt last year. MAC I see more as another olinemen. He can make plays in the passing game, but his value is more at blocking. Mallory is your traditional find an open spot in the defense and sit there as a safety valve. Collectively, they each bring something to the table, but the room doesn't have that TE1 presence imo.

 

Concern

 

S - I think this is everyone's concern as imo it's the weakest unit on the team. Blackmon returning does help, however Cross and Thomas have not proven either one can start full time and the only other potential starter at S is Ronnie Harrison. I would like to believe eventually Ballard will sign Simmons or Diggs. 

 

CB - While I do think Brents and Jones played really well as rookies, this unit concerns me as the room is made up of mostly second and third year players with Kenny being the lone vet. Flowers returning can definitely help as I thought he was playing very well before he got hurt, but the fifth and sixth CB spots imo are completely open.

 

LB - Yes Franklin has established himself as the best LB on the team, there really isn't much depth afterwards. This will be the first season Speed is the full-time starter, Oubi and Stuard are more for STs, and Carlies is converting from S to LB.

My concerns are less with the players than integrating the way the players we have with the strategies and tactics from some of our coaching - especially on defense. There are no perfect football teams, but you can develop strategies to beat any football team if your are smart enough and creative enough. This brings me to my concern: Are some of the coaches we have too dogmatic in doing things the way they've always been done? I guess we'll find out in a couple of months.

[Smonroe]

55 minutes ago, CoachLite said:

My concerns are less with the players than integrating the way the players we have with the strategies and tactics from some of our coaching - especially on defense. There are no perfect football teams, but you can develop strategies to beat any football team if your are smart enough and creative enough. This brings me to my concern: Are some of the coaches we have too dogmatic in doing things the way they've always been done? I guess we'll find out in a couple of months.

The game, on both sides of the ball, comes down to making advantageous matchups and taking advantage of them.  
 

Our D is simplistic and mostly conservative.  In MHO it’s due to the lack of talent and experience of our D backfield.  

[jvan1973]

On 6/29/2024 at 6:34 PM, Yoshinator said:

They are trash compared to their peers at the NFL level that are also starters at their position. I thought this was obvious. Not sure why you are comparing them to me. Just like I mention with Ballard, they are not competing against me or any "fan", they are compared to other starting TEs at the NFL level. Most of which are better than them. I don't sugercoat things. Any of our TE's would be considered a bottom 5 TE starter in the NFL. That's just a fact. Every team is weak at certain positions. One of our weaknesses is TE, and yes, they are trash relative to the other starting TEs in the NFL.

To call another human being trash is nonsense.   If someone called you trash , you would absolutely take offense to that.   If someone called you a "trash poster" you would take offense to that.   I mean these guys are the epitome of physical dominance..  and you play Madden and Pokémon. Do you not see the ridiculousness?

[NewColtsFan]

10 hours ago, CoachLite said:

My concerns are less with the players than integrating the way the players we have with the strategies and tactics from some of our coaching - especially on defense. There are no perfect football teams, but you can develop strategies to beat any football team if your are smart enough and creative enough. This brings me to my concern: Are some of the coaches we have too dogmatic in doing things the way they've always been done? I guess we'll find out in a couple of months.

Some of the coaches?   That sounds plural to me.   To the best of my knowledge the focus in this community has only been on one coach who may not be maximizing the players the Colts have.   And that’s the defensive coordinator.  He’s been a hot topic of conversation.  But I’m not aware of any other coach being viewed in a negative light. 

[NewColtsFan]

On 6/29/2024 at 3:34 PM, Yoshinator said:

They are trash compared to their peers at the NFL level that are also starters at their position. I thought this was obvious. Not sure why you are comparing them to me. Just like I mention with Ballard, they are not competing against me or any "fan", they are compared to other starting TEs at the NFL level. Most of which are better than them. I don't sugercoat things. Any of our TE's would be considered a bottom 5 TE starter in the NFL. That's just a fact. Every team is weak at certain positions. One of our weaknesses is TE, and yes, they are trash relative to the other starting TEs in the NFL.

Food for thought…

Once again, you continue to be your own worst enemy.  
 

The Colts overall TE room is loaded with young players most of whom have had very little playing time for a variety of reasons.   So if you want to say the room might not be ranked high, that’s fair. 
 

But you don’t say that.  You call them “trash”.  Why you feel that’s appropriate is a mystery.   Whenever you try the internet tough guy approach it typically blows up on you.  
 

No one is trash.  
 

You ignore the last three years and the QB and HC carousel the Colts have dealt with.  All of which has impacted the Colts weapons, especially the TE’s.

 

Ballard has publicly talked about how promising he thinks his TE room might be.  
Woods, Granson, Ogletree, Mallory and MAC.    Only MAC is questionable and that’s because the salary hasn’t matched expectations.  But the first four?   All are promising.   They’re just young and looking for opportunity.  But they are NOT trash.  
 

There’s a difference. 

 

 

[RollerColt]

2 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

To call another human being trash is nonsense.   If someone called you trash , you would absolutely take offense to that.   If someone called you a "trash poster" you would take offense to that.   I mean these guys are the epitome of physical dominance..  and you play Madden and Pokémon. Do you not see the ridiculousness?

They make a heck of a lot more money than I do. Even those on the practice squad are making life changing money. 
 

To be completely honest, as an educator I feel more like trash nowadays. One of those moments where I feel like I’m failing as a man, a husband, a father and a teacher. I would absolutely never consider an honest working NFL player as trash. 

[NFLfan]

12 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

They make a heck of a lot more money than I do. Even those on the practice squad are making life changing money. 
 

To be completely honest, as an educator I feel more like trash nowadays. One of those moments where I feel like I’m failing as a man, a husband, a father and a teacher. I would absolutely never consider an honest working NFL player as trash. 

 

You are too self-deprecating. You are one of the most respected and bright members here. You should never feel that you are failing. I'm sure your wife and children don't feel that way.  Indiana does not pay teachers what they deserve. But money is overrated. Having good morals and good character should be valued a lot more. JMO.

[NewColtsFan]

10 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

They make a heck of a lot more money than I do. Even those on the practice squad are making life changing money. 
 

To be completely honest, as an educator I feel more like trash nowadays. One of those moments where I feel like I’m failing as a man, a husband, a father and a teacher. I would absolutely never consider an honest working NFL player as trash. 

I’m not a religious person, but since you’re an educator I think you’re doing Gods work!   In these crazy insane times we’re all living in you’re doing one of the toughest jobs on earth.  And you’re teaching perhaps the most difficult generation to deal with.  
 

From a distance it feels like you’re being very unfair to you.  I’m hoping in time you’ll see yourself in a completely different light.    Someone highly thought of.  A leader in the community.  A protector of young minds.   I couldn’t admire a teacher more.  

[Jason_]

On 6/29/2024 at 6:34 PM, Yoshinator said:

They are trash compared to their peers at the NFL level that are also starters at their position. I thought this was obvious. Not sure why you are comparing them to me. Just like I mention with Ballard, they are not competing against me or any "fan", they are compared to other starting TEs at the NFL level. Most of which are better than them. I don't sugercoat things. Any of our TE's would be considered a bottom 5 TE starter in the NFL. That's just a fact. Every team is weak at certain positions. One of our weaknesses is TE, and yes, they are trash relative to the other starting TEs in the NFL.

 

This was a trash post

[RollerColt]

1 hour ago, NFLfan said:

 

You are too self-deprecating. You are one of the most respected and bright members here. You should never feel that you are failing. I'm sure your wife and children don't feel that way.  Indiana does not pay teachers what they deserve. But money is overrated. Having good morals and good character should be valued a lot more. JMO.

 

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

I’m not a religious person, but since you’re an educator I think you’re doing Gods work!   In these crazy insane times we’re all living in you’re doing one of the toughest jobs on earth.  And you’re teaching perhaps the most difficult generation to deal with.  
 

From a distance it feels like you’re being very unfair to you.  I’m hoping in time you’ll see yourself in a completely different light.    Someone highly thought of.  A leader in the community.  A protector of young minds.   I couldn’t admire a teacher more.  

Thank you. You guys are too kind, but I truly appreciate the support. 
 

Perhaps I am being too hard on myself… But my point still stands that anyone who makes it to the NFL, whether practice squad or starter, has achieved something prestigious that only a rare few ever achieve. 
 

Over a million high schoolers play. Of those only 7.8 percent move on to play in college. 
 

Over 80,000 people play in college. Only 0.4 percent make it to opening day in the NFL. 
 

Only 2,016 players make it to NFL rosters. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

You are too self-deprecating. You are one of the most respected and bright members here. You should never feel that you are failing. I'm sure your wife and children don't feel that way.  Indiana does not pay teachers what they deserve. But money is overrated. Having good morals and good character should be valued a lot more. JMO.

You have a good heart because unfortunately money rules the world. Without it, you can't do anything or live nice. I am just talking live halfway nice, nothing mind popping like buying 3 cars and a half million-dollar house. Just live in a 200,000 house (good neighborhood) and have a nice car and be able to take a Vacation once a year type of money is what I mean. To your point, being a good person with good morals is super important though . I try to treat people well and help people as much as I can.

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 hours ago, RollerColt said:

They make a heck of a lot more money than I do. Even those on the practice squad are making life changing money. 
 

To be completely honest, as an educator I feel more like trash nowadays. One of those moments where I feel like I’m failing as a man, a husband, a father and a teacher. I would absolutely never consider an honest working NFL player as trash. 

Most of us are underpaid, difference is we move on and deal with it and barely can enjoy life. Imagine if Pat Mahome's and his wife and kids had to live paycheck to paycheck, that would be funny to see, even for 3 months 

[shasta519]

On 6/29/2024 at 10:07 PM, smittywerb said:

TBH, a hot take I have this season is that the TEs will actually flourish (given health).  Remember, last season it was at one point the TEs were out producing the WRs with checkdown Charlie Minshew.  Imagine what they can do when the field opens up with ARs arm and hopefully a big play WR room with Pierce and AD.  Woods is in the same boat as AR now.  Boatloads of potential and flashes but haven’t seen it because of health.  

 

Interestingly, the TE target volume share with AR (32%) was significantly higher than with Minshew (19%). Though it's hard to make much of an 84-pass sample. 

[gspdx]

6 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

 Just live in a 200,000 house (good neighborhood) and have a nice car and be able to take a Vacation once a year type of money is what I mean.

Nice house in good neighborhood for 200k.  Not where I live!

 

I agree that many people are under paid.  And @RollerColt is a prime example.   I thought about becoming a school teacher when I retired from the military but it just didn't make finacial sense.  I really appreciate what you do.

[Hawkeyecolt]

I disagree about Smith.  He’s an absolute road grader as a run blocker. He’s graded as one of the best in that category.  His pass blocking was around 71 last year. Considering the need for knee surgery that’s pretty good considering the DE’s they went up against last year. 
 

Fries was solid last year. He plays with a mean streak and through the whistle. Fries was better last year than Glowinski was as a Colt in my opinion. I don’t see any reason Fries wouldn’t continue to improve. He’s an ascending player. 
 

I hope the Colts hit on drafting Kelly’s replacement.  It was good that he had a bounce back year after 2+ sub par years. However, they can’t pay everyone and having a center with a $14 million cap hit is too much. 
 

You can’t pay everyone. It seems like the Colts have a plan in place to replace Kelly and/or Fries after this season but I expect the Colts oline to be even more consistent this year with a healthy Smith and a QB who is willing to stay in a clean  pocket.  I also feel like the depth is there to handle injuries. 

[CoachLite]

15 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Some of the coaches?   That sounds plural to me.   To the best of my knowledge the focus in this community has only been on one coach who may not be maximizing the players the Colts have.   And that’s the defensive coordinator.  He’s been a hot topic of conversation.  But I’m not aware of any other coach being viewed in a negative light. 

Well they replaced Strausser with Sparano which solved a problem.

[CR91]

5 minutes ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

I disagree about Smith.  He’s an absolute road grader as a run blocker. He’s graded as one of the best in that category.  His pass blocking was around 71 last year. Considering the need for knee surgery that’s pretty good considering the DE’s they went up against last year. 
 

Fries was solid last year. He plays with a mean streak and through the whistle. Fries was better last year than Glowinski was as a Colt in my opinion. I don’t see any reason Fries wouldn’t continue to improve. He’s an ascending player. 
 

I hope the Colts hit on drafting Kelly’s replacement.  It was good that he had a bounce back year after 2+ sub par years. However, they can’t pay everyone and having a center with a $14 million cap hit is too much. 
 

You can’t pay everyone. It seems like the Colts have a plan in place to replace Kelly and/or Fries after this season but I expect the Colts oline to be even more consistent this year with a healthy Smith and a QB who is willing to stay in a clean  pocket.  I also feel like the depth is there to handle injuries. 

 

Smith has been having a hard time staying healthy the last few years and he's due 19 mil next season with no dead cap to cut him.