AR vs Young vs Stroud vs Levis

[Solid84]

I think Stroud has proven he's an NFL calibre QB. What remains to be seen is if, when the Texans have built around him, he can be elite.

 

Levis has done well with what he's been given I think. Game 1 had some explosive plays, but lacked consistency. Game 2 was against one of the more aggressive defenses in the NFL with an injured Oline to protect him.

 

Young has been put in the most difficult situation of all the rookie QBs I think. They lack weapons and Reich hasn't been doing him any favors. I hope he isn't ruined before they have probably built up their team.

 

AR has the highest ceiling to me. He's a physical freak with a cannon arm. He wants to learn and he seems coachable even if he still needs to learn to take better care of himself. He doesn't look to be in over his head despite only having played in 16 football games total. But, he probably also has the furthest to go of the bunch.

 

I'm rooting for AR of course, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate good football when I see it... even if it isn't from the Colts. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Did you guys see the Texans' make shift OL give Stroud plenty of time? Plus, he moves very well within the pocket to make time with eyes down the field too. I don't want any more resources devoted on Day 1 or Day 2 to OL, to be honest. Coaching and QB play help out OL more than we care to admit.

I think Ballard is finally getting it right with drafting his depth at Oline instead of going after bad FA. Freeland has been decent as a rookie. Needs to keep drafting Oline in the 3rd and 4th rounds as depth.

[chad72]

4 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I think Stroud has proven he's an NFL calibre QB. What remains to be seen is if, when the Texans have built around him, he can be elite.

 

Levis has done well with what he's been given I think. Game 1 had some explosive plays, but lacked consistency. Game 2 was against one of the more aggressive defenses in the NFL with an injured Oline to protect him.

 

Young has been put in the most difficult situation of all the rookie QBs I think. They lack weapons and Reich hasn't been doing him any favors. I hope he isn't ruined before they have probably built up their team.

 

AR has the highest ceiling to me. He's a physical freak with a cannon arm. He wants to learn and he seems coachable even if he still needs to learn to take better care of himself. He doesn't look to be in over his head despite only having played in 16 football games total. But, he probably also has the furthest to go of the bunch.

 

I'm rooting for AR of course, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate good football when I see it... even if it isn't from the Colts. 

 

If you look at the Chiefs, their WR drafting philosophy isn't that much different than ours, Pittman and Pierce in Round 2, Skyy Moore and Rasheed Rice in Round 2, pass rushers and cornerbacks in Round 1, we have gotten top of Round 2 cornerbacks twice (RYS and Brents). 

 

The key differences is in the coaching, quality of pass rushers and the big elephant in the room, the alpha QB to make it work. That is why I feel in a deep WR draft, most teams should come away with good WRs in Round 2 next year and we can too. We need to shore up the pass defense in Round 1.

 

This TNF, chance for D J Moore to rub it into the Panthers' faces for trading him. Panthers have to be looking really silly now. Like before the draft, we said, it takes only 1 team to fall hook, line and sinker to be fleeced by the Bears, and the Panthers were that team, will face the Bears this Thursday, lol.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

39 minutes ago, IinD said:

Agreed.

 

But you know how it is nowadays. Gotta muddy the waters and double and triple think everything.

Those tests are dumb, Dan Marino scored lousy on that test. So right there, that test should go in the trash  

[2006Coltsbestever]

28 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

 

He beat Andrew's rookie record. Luck had a game where he threw for 433 as a rookie, Stroud is impressive!

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

 

If you look at the Chiefs, their WR drafting philosophy isn't that much different than ours, Pittman and Pierce in Round 2, Skyy Moore and Rasheed Rice in Round 2, pass rushers and cornerbacks in Round 1, we have gotten top of Round 2 cornerbacks twice (RYS and Brents). 

 

The key differences is in the coaching, quality of pass rushers and the big elephant in the room, the alpha QB to make it work. That is why I feel in a deep WR draft, most teams should come away with good WRs in Round 2 next year and we can too. We need to shore up the pass defense in Round 1.

KC favors speed and elusiveness and Ballard has favored height.  Downs looks more like a KC WR than the typical WR Ballard has drafted.

[DougDew]

9 hours ago, Nickster said:

Did you watch the game.  
 

if you did you’d probably see his line was in shambles and he kept them in the game.  In the first half he looked really good to me .  
 

every one of tn st#rting. Linemen missed time that game.  All 5 starters.

 

Hes a very accurate passer of the football with a lightening quick release.  He must have some other  issues or something.  

Yeah, he "puts mayo in his coffee".  Does that seem like a real reason to not like him?

[chad72]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

KC favors speed and elusiveness and Ballard has favored height.  Downs looks more like a KC WR than the typical WR Ballard has drafted.

 

You need WRs of all kinds, glad Ballard listened to those vouching for Downs. Tank Dell in Houston, apparently C J Stroud wanted him, and the Houston Cougar was drafted by the Texans to be the speedster scoring machine, which he has become. 

[Solid84]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

 

If you look at the Chiefs, their WR drafting philosophy isn't that much different than ours, Pittman and Pierce in Round 2, Skyy Moore and Rasheed Rice in Round 2, pass rushers and cornerbacks in Round 1, we have gotten top of Round 2 cornerbacks twice (RYS and Brents). 

 

The key differences is in the coaching, quality of pass rushers and the big elephant in the room, the alpha QB to make it work. That is why I feel in a deep WR draft, most teams should come away with good WRs in Round 2 next year and we can too. We need to shore up the pass defense in Round 1.

There're a lot of similarities between the Chiefs and Colts in draft strategy, but Ballard was a former Chief, so that's probably not that weird.

 

I'm a bit conflicted about what I think we should do this offseason. On one hand I REALLY want AR to have some offensive weapons and I feel we're lacking a bit in that department. It's probably also a little difficult to evaluate properly - I read in the Game Day thread that Minshew has been the most blitzed QB this season. That would likely mean our TEs need to block a lot and I think we have TEs with a lot of promise as targets in the passing game, so they're getting "robbed" of those opportunities. I also think Downs will be our best WR going into next season.

   On the other hand our defense needs... something. A truly elite passrusher is a possiblity, but maybe an elite CB for man coverage, who can just take out the opponents WR1, would be a better option? We do have Brents coming back, can he be that guy?

 

I haven't made up my mind yet.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yeah, he "puts mayo in his coffee".  Does that seem like a real reason to not like him?

To me, that is a reason to like him. I am being serious. I thought that was funny that he does that. I do different stuff with food all the time for fun.

[chad72]

7 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

There're a lot of similarities between the Chiefs and Colts in draft strategy, but Ballard was a former Chief, so that's probably not that weird.

 

I'm a bit conflicted about what I think we should do this offseason. On one hand I REALLY want AR to have some offensive weapons and I feel we're lacking a bit in that department. It's probably also a little difficult to evaluate properly - I read in the Game Day thread that Minshew has been the most blitzed QB this season. That would likely mean our TEs need to block a lot and I think we have TEs with a lot of promise as targets in the passing game, so they're getting "robbed" of those opportunities. I also think Downs will be our best WR going into next season.

   On the other hand our defense needs... something. A truly elite passrusher is a possiblity, but maybe an elite CB for man coverage, who can just take out the opponents WR1, would be a better option? We do have Brents coming back, can he be that guy?

 

I haven't made up my mind yet.

 

You get a 2nd CB that can play man coverage as well like Cooper DeJean, who is versatile to even play free safety if needed. Depends on where you draft, you could trade down with a playoff team to land an additional 2nd rounder and double dip into WRs, depending on how the board falls for prospects you like. 

 

Robert Saleh like D, is played well when you have that man CB like Sauce Gardner. If you have 2, that goes a long way to mix and match zones in the middle and be able to blitz and hold up in coverage.

[DougDew]

14 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

To me, that is a reason to like him. I am being serious. I thought that was funny that he does that. I do different stuff with food all the time for fun.

The banana peel thing was a joke designed to punk SM types.   Al Michaels said so is the Mayo thing.

 

But the point is that some folks just went stupid over it thinking it was true...used it as support for not wanting him.  Its a wonder why something so pointless was treated like it was important.  

[Solid84]

10 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

You get a 2nd CB that can play man coverage as well like Cooper DeJean, who is versatile to even play free safety if needed. Depends on where you draft, you could trade down with a playoff team to land an additional 2nd rounder and double dip into WRs, depending on how the board falls for prospects you like. 

 

Robert Saleh like D, is played well when you have that man CB like Sauce Gardner. If you have 2, that goes a long way to mix and match zones in the middle and be able to blitz and hold up in coverage.

I agree I just don't think Bradley is creative enough to do that. I'm also not sure we have the personnel to do it right now at least.

[runthepost]

55 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

You get a 2nd CB that can play man coverage as well like Cooper DeJean, who is versatile to even play free safety if needed. Depends on where you draft, you could trade down with a playoff team to land an additional 2nd rounder and double dip into WRs, depending on how the board falls for prospects you like. 

 

Robert Saleh like D, is played well when you have that man CB like Sauce Gardner. If you have 2, that goes a long way to mix and match zones in the middle and be able to blitz and hold up in coverage.

What’s great about the Jets D is that their LB are like number 1 and 2 in pass defense. It’s really insane how good they could have been with Rodgers back there.

[chad72]

47 minutes ago, runthepost said:

What’s great about the Jets D is that their LB are like number 1 and 2 in pass defense. It’s really insane how good they could have been with Rodgers back there.

 

True, because they have been able to hold up in man coverage at the LB positions, they have stifled/limited the best of QBs this year. 

[husker61]

8 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

True, because they have been able to hold up in man coverage at the LB positions, they have stifled/limited the best of QBs this year. 

I haven’t seen a jets game, but I’m sure it’s not just the lb’s. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. If you don’t have a weak part of the defense, everyone will look better. I have a feeling the colt lb’s would look better and the d-line would have more sacks if they were playing with quality db’s.

[chad72]

50 minutes ago, husker61 said:

I haven’t seen a jets game, but I’m sure it’s not just the lb’s. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. If you don’t have a weak part of the defense, everyone will look better. I have a feeling the colt lb’s would look better and the d-line would have more sacks if they were playing with quality db’s.

 

If you had a great element on the D, I'd rather it be the DL that can cover blemishes in the DBs. Great DBs can only do so much if the DL is accounted for. Name one great DB on the Giants' 2007 or 2011 SB secondaries, it is hard to do but if I ask you to name great DL on those Giants' DL squads, it would be a slam dunk easy one for you. 

 

When the Patriots handled the Seahawks DL, the LOB could be overcome in the 2014 SB. When the Broncos couldn't handle the Seahawks DL, the LOB overcame everything the Broncos threw at them in the 2013 SB because they always felt hurried and rushed.

 

While you need strengths at every level, every single level doesn't need to be elite for an elite defense, that is my point. I mean Brents (say) can be very good and not elite at his job but if our DL is doing its job, his job is way easier, that is what I am getting at.

[ShuteAt168]

When people say Gus Bradley’s D is outdated, what does that mean? Serious question — in what way specifically? Thanks in advance. 

[krunk]

I'm fine with Bradley. We are missing 2 corners and Grover Stewart on the DL. You should expect some drop off.

[Nickster]

5 hours ago, BCMak24 said:

I never understood that....one test does not define who you are as a qb

They don’t take the smart dumb wunderkich anymore I believe.

 

the test you are referring to that was low was a processing speed test.

[Nickster]

7 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

The only reason everyone is saying stroud is best is because we didn’t get to see Richardson more. Stroud looked phenomenal but Richardson looked really good too.

You don’t think it has anything to with his stat line?  Hmm.  Mmkay.

 

maybe the 14 TDs 1 int and 12 best QBR and 79 pff for a team that won 11 total games the last 3 seasons has something to do with why everyone is saying it.  
 

maybe he’s clearly the best so far by a wide margin.  Maybe it’s also because he’s had one of the best starts of any rookie QB that I can come up with.

 

 

[Nickster]

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

Yeah, he "puts mayo in his coffee".  Does that seem like a real reason to not like him?

I think he might be on the spectrum.  He’s exceptionally intelligent, an actual, not figurative, genius.  He seems like he might be one of those genius type people that struggle with human relations.  Rain man only totally functional.

 

Hes quirky.  He may have been believed to have issues relating and leading other human beings or something.

 

But the size, strength, HOF arm talent falling to the 2nd round has to have some plausible explanation.  
 

Being a genius doesn’t necessarily help one become a good Fb player though.  Fitz magic is a genius and his main issue was playing stupid with turnovers.

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I think he might be on the spectrum.  He’s exceptionally intelligent, an actual, not figurative, genius.  He seems like he might be one of those genius type people that struggle with human relations.  Rain man only totally functional.

 

Hes quirky.  He may have been believed to have issues relating and leading other human beings or something.

 

But the size, strength, HOF arm talent falling to the 2nd round has to have some plausible explanation.  
 

Being a genius doesn’t necessarily help one become a good Fb player though.  Fitz magic is a genius and his main issue was playing stupid with turnovers.

Golly, that's a lot of diagnosis for just putting mayo in coffee. LOL

 

(which may even have simply been a joke)

[Nickster]

5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Golly, that's a lot of diagnosis for just putting mayo in coffee. LOL

 

(which may even have simply been a joke)

Those aren’t original thoughts I posted.  There is all kinds of stuff out there about his personality.  IDK why being arrogant and cocky is a negative for A QB.  Manning was both arrogant and cocky.  
 

if he’s uncoachable that’s another thing but I never saw anything that said that.

 

im guessing not diagnosing but guessing that the dude has issues relating to common dummies like us.

[NFLfan]

6 hours ago, Solid84 said:

I think Stroud has proven he's an NFL calibre QB. What remains to be seen is if, when the Texans have built around him, he can be elite.

 

Levis has done well with what he's been given I think. Game 1 had some explosive plays, but lacked consistency. Game 2 was against one of the more aggressive defenses in the NFL with an injured Oline to protect him.

 

Young has been put in the most difficult situation of all the rookie QBs I think. They lack weapons and Reich hasn't been doing him any favors. I hope he isn't ruined before they have probably built up their team.

 

AR has the highest ceiling to me. He's a physical freak with a cannon arm. He wants to learn and he seems coachable even if he still needs to learn to take better care of himself. He doesn't look to be in over his head despite only having played in 16 football games total. But, he probably also has the furthest to go of the bunch.

 

I'm rooting for AR of course, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate good football when I see it... even if it isn't from the Colts. 

 

Well written and balanced. Love it.

[NFLfan]

6 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

You need WRs of all kinds, glad Ballard listened to those vouching for Downs. Tank Dell in Houston, apparently C J Stroud wanted him, and the Houston Cougar was drafted by the Texans to be the speedster scoring machine, which he has become. 

 

I remember reading a mock draft on a Giants site and someone wanted Tank Dell. I had never heard of him but the other fans did not approve of his selection. He sure has a good connection with Stroud. Stroud looks very comfortable in that offense.

[RollerColt]

6 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

I remember reading a mock draft on a Giants site and someone wanted Tank Dell. I had never heard of him but the other fans did not approve of his selection. He sure has a good connection with Stroud. Stroud looks very comfortable in that offense.

I wasn’t sure of Demeco Ryans and Bobbly Slowik but they’re doing a fantastic job with Houston this season. They’re players coaches for sure. 

[krunk]

19 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Those tests are dumb, Dan Marino scored lousy on that test. So right there, that test should go in the trash  

I think it's dumb to use the S2 test as an end all be all when the film says the player has few problems with the problem the test brought up. You have to consider the whole body of evidence, not just one part. To me it was extremely clear on tape that Stroud had no processing problems. But some people like to use anything they can to put stigmas on players.

[DougDew]

13 hours ago, Nickster said:

Those aren’t original thoughts I posted.  There is all kinds of stuff out there about his personality.  IDK why being arrogant and cocky is a negative for A QB.  Manning was both arrogant and cocky.  
 

if he’s uncoachable that’s another thing but I never saw anything that said that.

 

im guessing not diagnosing but guessing that the dude has issues relating to common dummies like us.

I never had a problem with what he said behind the mic.  Or any of the QBs.  People are entitled to have different personalities.  I just think some used it to pick on Levis, and when choose to pick on somebody for weird reasons, there is usually another reason they are picking on someone. JMO.

[DougDew]

17 minutes ago, krunk said:

I think it's dumb to use the S2 test as an end all be all when the film says the player has few problems with the problem the test brought up. You have to consider the whole body of evidence, not just one part. To me it was extremely clear on tape that Stroud had no processing problems. But some people like to use anything they can to put stigmas on players.

What's interesting in this dynamic is how some just throw out the results of an administered test, yet would use a weird thing like putting mayo in coffee as a sign of a personality flaw limiting the ability to be an NFL QB.

 

I've read plenty of people defending Stroud for failing a test that everybody else seemed to have passed.   Not one defending Levis for putting mayo in his coffee.  Decidedly unbalanced, IMO.  Interesting.

[krunk]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

What's interesting in this dynamic is how some just throw out the results of an administered test, yet would use a weird thing like putting mayo in coffee as a sign of a personality flaw limiting the ability to be an NFL QB.

 

I've read plenty of people defending Stroud for failing a test that everybody else seemed to have passed.   Not one defending Levis for putting mayo in his coffee.  Decidedly unbalanced, IMO.  Interesting.

I didn't make any issues with Levis about that. Plenty of players have strange rituals. I believe he later said he made that up also.

[DougDew]

35 minutes ago, krunk said:

I didn't make any issues with Levis about that. Plenty of players have strange rituals. I believe he later said he made that up also.

Oh sure, nobody is keeping score here.  Well, maybe a few do.

 

Honestly, when I first heard it I thought it was made up.  Just the fact that he was the one that basically originated it on SM...I mean, was there a hidden camera in the restaurant that captured him putting mayo in his coffee and the manager posted on SM?   Just a little thought would have made people suspicious, IMO.   But it got so much attention in an adverse way, weirdly, I let the overwhelming opinion sort of sway mine.  My mistake.

[Boondoggle]

On 11/5/2023 at 11:00 PM, GoColts8818 said:

I think we can say right now Stroud is the best of the class so far, Young looks over his head and Levis and Richardson have shown promise but we haven’t seen enough of either to draw any kind of concrete conclusions other than we want to see more.

 

People were talking earlier about how Young went to the worst situation of the four and I would agree with that but it wasn’t that much worse than the Texans and look at what Stroud has done there.  I think Richardson and Levis both went to good situations.  Levis had the most talent but it’s older and probably isnt going to be there in two or three years.  Richardson went to the most QB friendly coach of the group and team that historically does a good job developing powerful offenses around franchise QBs.  

For me it's about teams being able to correctly project the ceilings of the players.

 

Young is going to be a game manager.  He's a great kid, extremely likeable, diligent, etc., etc.  But you can get a game manager ceiling at other-than the first overall pick.  Load up his tape at Bama and he ran the offense well but he wasn't the guy who makes you say "wow."  That was Gibbs.  Now maybe in five years he's a stable QB who they build a good offense around.  Thing is they'll always have limitations around that QB position with him in it and those limitations will show themselves at the biggest moments when the most is at stake.

 

Stroud has a ceiling commensurate with a high pick.  So does Levis and Richardson.  As to who among them, if any, end up reaching their ceiling...  That will come down to elements like being willing to do the work, being available, and the quality of the roster around them.

 

There are drafts where none of the QBs live up to their ceilings.  In fact you can look at first round picks over time and assign percentages of hits/misses, and if you were to crunch all that for guys who live up to their ceilings as high end QB picks it's probably a very low chance to end up with that player.  Basically even if you hit on a guy who can start and win you some games that's not what you're really after.  You're after the guy who is a grand slam.  The guy who completely rewrites your fortune in big games for the next twenty.

 

Colts may miss on Richardson due to availability or his ability to improve mechanics etc.  But I respect that they took a shot on a player who might have that highest quality.  I'm just praying they got it right.

[w87r]

Levis named starter going forward 

 

 

 

 

[husker61]

1 hour ago, w87r said:

Levis named starter going forward 

 

 

 

 

that’s a no brainer!

[RollerColt]

2 hours ago, w87r said:

Levis named starter going forward 

 

 

 

 

I just like Will Levis. I said it. Liked him during the pre draft process when I saw some Josh Allen and Aaron Rodgers traits. I saw it on display these past couple of weeks. That effortless flick of the wrist and the ball is down the sideline. Beautiful. 
 

History and odds say very few of our AFC South QBs will be successful long term. But screw the odds. It’d be cool if this group is the face of the NFL for years to come. 
 

As Coach Pagano would say, “iron sharpens iron”. Competition is good for the sport. 

[SSColts]

I was convinced we were going to take Levis or Stroud (if he was available). AR was always a dark horse and I never believed this franchise would take a chance on a player like him. Even with his injury, I'm glad they did. He brings an excitement to the franchise I haven't seen in awhile. 

 

The only QB I didn't like was Young. He was "too small" and didn't have a great arm. I'm not surprised at how anything has turned out so far except that Stroud is lighting it up as much as he is.

 

Kudos to them all.

[Patrick Miller]

2 hours ago, w87r said:

Levis named starter going forward 

 

 

 

 

I have a feeling  he’s going to make Colts fan wish we had drafted him.

[BeanDiasucci]

 

On 11/6/2023 at 9:28 AM, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Please remember stroud struggled first couple of games. 

When was that? Stroud had an okay game in his first game against Baltimore's tough D and then was pretty great in games 2, 3, and 4. You don't remember the 384 yards against the Colts in Game 2? 

 

 

 

 

[chad72]

9 minutes ago, BeanDiasucci said:

 

When was that? Stroud had an okay game in his first game against Baltimore's tough D and then was pretty great in games 2, 3, and 4. You don't remember the 384 yards against the Colts in Game 2? 

 

 

 

 

The biggest issue for Stroud and the Texans will be retaining their hot commodity OC, Bobby Slowik.

 

https://www.houstontexans.com/team/coaches-roster/bobby-slowik

 

You need stability for a young gun like Stroud. As far as OCs are concerned, the Jaguars, Texans and the Colts have it better (with Jaguars and Colts having those as HCs), followed by the Titans in last, which will be Levis' biggest disadvantage unless they improve the quality of their offense.