Peyton left off list?

[ADnum1]

The only way to tell if Elway was overrated or underrated is we would have to compare Peyton's superbowl winning roster to Elway's superbowl winning roster.

 

Since its the offseason I know we have alot of time to kill.

[Shaolin06]

Even though Emmitt Smith had the better numbers do to longevity. In my top 5 rb list he is borderline number 5. 1. Jim brown 2. Barry Sanders 3. Walter Payton 4. AP/ Emmitt Smith. It's a toss up to me between Walter and Barry. You can't go wrong with either one and I put Adrian Peterson at 4 because I loved the way he ran the ball. Ap ran violently and his acceleration after breaking through the line was rare. Wasn't a big cowboy fan as a kid so that clouds my judgment a little too lol

[w87r]

4 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I always felt that Elway is very under rated. People have to remember that  I  dont believe he did not play with one hall of fame player on offence. You look at all the great qbs and they had many and/or border line hall of fame players. Elway is the greatest qb talent ever coming out of college. You put him on those other teams and he may have won 6 super bowls

Yeah, I agree. Like I said I actually have Elway as my #2.

 

Superman already responded with TD and Shannon Sharpe to that point.

[csmopar]

7 hours ago, stitches said:

 

 

 

Irsay just needs to stay off twitter. At some point, right or wrong, the world gonna blow anything and everything he posts out of context or proportion . Sometimes it’s better to just shut up.

 

and I like Irsay a LOT. I think he’s a top 5 owner in the league. Maybe top 3.  But man

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

Irsay just needs to stay off twitter. At some point, right or wrong, the world gonna blow anything and everything he posts out of context or proportion . Sometimes it’s better to just shut up.

 

and I like Irsay a LOT. I think he’s a top 5 owner in the league. Maybe top 3.  But man

Yup!    100 percent.   
 

At some point, you have to fold with a losing hand and just minimize the damage.   

[Moosejawcolt]

8 hours ago, Superman said:

 

 

 

I talking bout Elways peak years. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

On 5/22/2023 at 8:50 PM, NewColtsFan said:

By the way, this Dungy ranking of Brady as the 6th best QB of all time is missing some very important context.   The story is from summer of 2017.   Six years ago.   I don’t know if Dungy has ever updated this list but I strongly suspect he has.  

 

I don't think he has......since he probably still sees Brady's success as tainted. Lol

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

I don't think he has......since he probably still sees Brady's success as tainted. Lol

I think tainted is a Colts-centric view of Brady’s reputation.   Most everyone else in the NFL world…  players, coaches, front office, media, fans….   They see Brady as the undisputed GOAT and everyone else is fighting for a distant second. 
 

[csmopar]

6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think tainted is a Colts-centric view of Brady’s reputation.   Most everyone else in the NFL world…  players, coaches, front office, media, fans….   They see Brady as the undisputed GOAT and everyone else is fighting for a distant second. 
 

I think it’s more of an AFC centric view. Fans of most teams in the AFC seem to feel that way about Brady. 
 

I will say this, his run in Tampa does help his legacy. The argument really can’t be had now that it was all Bill B in New England

[Smonroe]

12 hours ago, csmopar said:

Irsay just needs to stay off twitter. At some point, right or wrong, the world gonna blow anything and everything he posts out of context or proportion . Sometimes it’s better to just shut up.

 

and I like Irsay a LOT. I think he’s a top 5 owner in the league. Maybe top 3.  But man

That’s good advice for 99% of the population.  

[BlackTiger]

14 hours ago, csmopar said:

Irsay just needs to stay off twitter. At some point, right or wrong, the world gonna blow anything and everything he posts out of context or proportion . Sometimes it’s better to just shut up

I think he might enjoy trolling everyone, including colts fans sometimes

 

It was pretty funny when he asked if we should draft Will Levis in the second round and then the titans traded up right in front of us to take him.  He knew they liked him 

[coltsva]

[indyagent17]

To be honest Peyton has 2 rings and other players have more of an impact 

. I’m not shocked

[ShuteAt168]

I’m more disappointed that Irsay would screw over fans by voting for Thursday flex scheduling than a Twitter list. 

[Narcosys]

This brings to mind when supposedly manning wanted to be a part owner in order to join the management shortly after retiring.  Now I never really saw how true this was, but the Irsays said no and supposedly their counter offer was essentially insulting. 

 

So maybe there is some behind the scenes issues. 

[jvan1973]

25 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

This brings to mind when supposedly manning wanted to be a part owner in order to join the management shortly after retiring.  Now I never really saw how true this was, but the Irsays said no and supposedly their counter offer was essentially insulting. 

 

So maybe there is some behind the scenes issues. 

Any link to this??

[LJpalmbeacher2]

22 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think tainted is a Colts-centric view of Brady’s reputation.   Most everyone else in the NFL world…  players, coaches, front office, media, fans….   They see Brady as the undisputed GOAT and everyone else is fighting for a distant second. 
 

 

I think the above view is TOTALLY OPPOSITE. 

People, Fans that are NOT EMPLOYED by the NFL and media don't have a salary to lose and see things differently that the employees of media  and NFL have to say. 

Which makes Dungy's  list so genuine and him different. He has plenty of money and his reputation is big enough where he can give his honest view of someone he's gone against plenty of times in the biggest games. I don't watch the Peyton & Eli alternate channel Broadcasts but heard here on this Forum that they took shots at the pats. 

 

I personally don't think its important how people make up Best and All time lists,(any one can make up a list) but Brady and the pats are known cheaters on multiple occasions and Fined and Disciplined and that is something that can never be erased from most peoples minds, especially people that don't receive a paycheck from the league and media. 

 

If some, imo,  the minority, really don't see that or won't admit that so be it!

Human beings often have their own narratives they like and want to believe AND some don't think for themselves and let the talking heads do that for them. 

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, Narcosys said:

This brings to mind when supposedly manning wanted to be a part owner in order to join the management shortly after retiring.  Now I never really saw how true this was, but the Irsays said no and supposedly their counter offer was essentially insulting. 

 

So maybe there is some behind the scenes issues. 

 Personally I highly doubt there is any truth to that nonsense.  It would be a huge insult to Irsay if Manning did expect anything in that regard.  

[NewColtsFan]

42 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

I think the above view is TOTALLY OPPOSITE. 

People, Fans that are NOT EMPLOYED by the NFL and media don't have a salary to lose and see things differently that the employees of media  and NFL have to say. 

Which makes Dungy's  list so genuine and him different. He has plenty of money and his reputation is big enough where he can give his honest view of someone he's gone against plenty of times in the biggest games. I don't watch the Peyton & Eli alternate channel Broadcasts but heard here on this Forum that they took shots at the pats. 

 

I personally don't think its important how people make up Best and All time lists,(any one can make up a list) but Brady and the pats are known cheaters on multiple occasions and Fined and Disciplined and that is something that can never be erased from most peoples minds, especially people that don't receive a paycheck from the league and media. 

 

If some, imo,  the minority, really don't see that or won't admit that so be it!

Human beings often have their own narratives they like and want to believe AND some don't think for themselves and let the talking heads do that for them. 

The Pats may be viewed as cheaters, but I don’t think Brady is.  That’s more the view of Belichick.  The generic NFL fan loves  and respects Brady.   His career is too long and too wildly successful to think much of anything else.   
 

Where is the poll, the proof that says most don’t like or love or respect Brady?   Something more than an opinion?    Most recently, Fox Sports was willing to give Brady $375 million over 10 years to be their face of the NFL, their John Madden.   That’s roughly twice as long and double the money as they’ve given anyone else. That’s objective proof. 
 

 

[Superman]

14 hours ago, Narcosys said:

This brings to mind when supposedly manning wanted to be a part owner in order to join the management shortly after retiring.  Now I never really saw how true this was, but the Irsays said no and supposedly their counter offer was essentially insulting. 

 

So maybe there is some behind the scenes issues. 

 

There was also a rumor started by a disreputable former Colts blogger back in 2018. He claimed before the draft that Manning would be joining the team as President of Football Ops (or some similar title), Ballard would report to him, it was basically a done deal, and would be announced some time after the draft. None of that proved to be true.

 

I think there was a lot of Manning/Colts stuff being made up back then. Even Manning/Broncos stuff. There was a rumor a while back that Manning was buying a minority stake in the Broncos as well. But every time anyone asks Manning whether he wants to join a team in an official capacity, he shrugs it off. So I think some of this stuff is just being imagined by curious people on the Internet.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

18 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

The Pats may be viewed as cheaters, but I don’t think Brady is.  That’s more the view of Belichick.  The generic NFL fan loves  and respects Brady.   His career is too long and too wildly successful to think much of anything else.   
 

Where is the poll, the proof that says most don’t like or love or respect Brady?   Something more than an opinion?    Most recently, Fox Sports was willing to give Brady $375 million over 10 years to be their face of the NFL, their John Madden.   That’s roughly twice as long and double the money as they’ve given anyone else. That’s objective proof. 
 

 

 

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this, like other topics. 

[Narcosys]

On 5/25/2023 at 10:47 AM, Superman said:

 

There was also a rumor started by a disreputable former Colts blogger back in 2018. He claimed before the draft that Manning would be joining the team as President of Football Ops (or some similar title), Ballard would report to him, it was basically a done deal, and would be announced some time after the draft. None of that proved to be true.

 

I think there was a lot of Manning/Colts stuff being made up back then. Even Manning/Broncos stuff. There was a rumor a while back that Manning was buying a minority stake in the Broncos as well. But every time anyone asks Manning whether he wants to join a team in an official capacity, he shrugs it off. So I think some of this stuff is just being imagined by curious people on the Internet.

This is probably it.  Like I mentioned,  I never saw if any of it was true, just remember a comment about it. 

[Moosejawcolt]

On 5/23/2023 at 2:18 PM, Shaolin06 said:

Even though Emmitt Smith had the better numbers do to longevity. In my top 5 rb list he is borderline number 5. 1. Jim brown 2. Barry Sanders 3. Walter Payton 4. AP/ Emmitt Smith. It's a toss up to me between Walter and Barry. You can't go wrong with either one and I put Adrian Peterson at 4 because I loved the way he ran the ball. Ap ran violently and his acceleration after breaking through the line was rare. Wasn't a big cowboy fan as a kid so that clouds my judgment a little too lol

i wouldnt even put Emmitt in my top 10 for backs.  I cannot comment on the old backs and just I have seen in my day. I would take Barry, Bo, Adrian, Water and Ricky over Emmitt and those are just a few off the top of my head. Of course Emmitt beats them in longevity and stats, but if you are talking pure talent, I have many rated higher

[jvan1973]

On 6/2/2023 at 12:40 PM, Moosejawcolt said:

i wouldnt even put Emmitt in my top 10 for backs.  I cannot comment on the old backs and just I have seen in my day. I would take Barry, Bo, Adrian, Water and Ricky over Emmitt and those are just a few off the top of my head. Of course Emmitt beats them in longevity and stats, but if you are talking pure talent, I have many rated higher

Ricky Williams over Emmitt?   Are you smoking what Ricky was smoking?

[NewColtsFan]

On 6/2/2023 at 9:40 AM, Moosejawcolt said:

i wouldnt even put Emmitt in my top 10 for backs.  I cannot comment on the old backs and just I have seen in my day. I would take Barry, Bo, Adrian, Water and Ricky over Emmitt and those are just a few off the top of my head. Of course Emmitt beats them in longevity and stats, but if you are talking pure talent, I have many rated higher

For your consideration….   
 

It’s true all over football but especially at a position like running back….  A quality that is highly valued by scouts and teammates alike is….  Toughness.    Day in, day out, game in, game out,  year in, year out toughness.   Teams and teammates can depend on you.   It was one of Payton’s better qualities.   And it may have been Emmitt’s best quality.   One of the toughest.    Two other super tough RBs, both Marcus Allen and Frank Gore.   One already in the Hall, the other will be soon enough.   Neither was super fast or elite quick.  But they could play hard all day.   Heck, Marcus basically gave up two years of his career to be the blocking fullback for a guy named Bo Jackson. 
 

Hope this will give you a different perspective.   If Emmitt isn’t on your top-10 list perhaps your criteria should be re-evaluated.     Food for thought… 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

On 6/2/2023 at 12:40 PM, Moosejawcolt said:

i wouldnt even put Emmitt in my top 10 for backs.  I cannot comment on the old backs and just I have seen in my day. I would take Barry, Bo, Adrian, Water and Ricky over Emmitt and those are just a few off the top of my head. Of course Emmitt beats them in longevity and stats, but if you are talking pure talent, I have many rated higher

This post here may be your funniest yet . 

 

Talent isn't everything. Intangibles, durability, and heart play a big role in a players Greatness. I guess you missed the game where Emmitt beat the Giants with 1 arm at NY with home field advantage on the line. I can't think of any RB in the history of the league that would play with the injury he had and dominate against a great Lawrence Taylor defense. Maybe Jim Brown and Walter Payton. Emmitt is #2 behind Jim Brown, end of story. He has the accomplishments and toughness to back it up. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

I feel pretty strong with my top 5's at each position. Based on everything:

QB's

1. Tom Brady 

2. Joe Montana 

3. Peyton Manning 

4. Johnny Unitas 

5. Patrick Mahomes 

 

RB's

1. Jim Brown RB/FB

2. Emmitt Smith 

3. Walter Payton 

4. Barry Sanders 

5. Eric Dickerson 

 

WR's

1. Jerry Rice 

2. Marvin Harrison 

3. Randy Moss

4. Michael Irvin

5. Cris Carter

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I feel pretty strong with my top 5's at each position. Based on everything:

QB's

1. Tom Brady 

2. Joe Montana 

3. Peyton Manning 

4. Johnny Unitas 

5. Patrick Mahomes 

 

RB's

1. Jim Brown RB/FB

2. Emmitt Smith 

3. Walter Payton 

4. Barry Sanders 

5. Eric Dickerson 

 

WR's

1. Jerry Rice 

2. Marvin Harrison 

3. Randy Moss

4. Michael Irvin

5. Cris Carter

 

 

Regarding WR's

 

Some could debate whether or not Moss was better than Harrison. Some could debate whether or not Irvin belongs in the top 5 as well. Irvin's stats won't measure up to many WR's that have played but his team was a run 1st offense + his career got cut short due to injury. I don't believe the Cowboys win 3 SB's without him.

 

Regarding QBs- Peyton is arguably the GOAT, I can buy that as well. Some may think I have Mahomes in the top 5 too early, I don't think so based on his play and accomplishments already.

[Shaolin06]

I dont know how anyone could put marvin ahead of Randy moss in my opinion. The stats and eye test show that Randy was harder to cover then marvin. To me it's Jerry Rice, Randy moss, marvin Harrison as the top 3. It gets a little muddy after them though because micheal Irvin, Tim brown, Chris carter. Then you got Larry Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, Torry holt and a few others that you could consider right in the top 10

[2006Coltsbestever]

15 minutes ago, Shaolin06 said:

I dont know how anyone could put marvin ahead of Randy moss in my opinion. The stats and eye test show that Randy was harder to cover then marvin. To me it's Jerry Rice, Randy moss, marvin Harrison as the top 3. It gets a little muddy after them though because micheal Irvin, Tim brown, Chris carter. Then you got Larry Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, Torry holt and a few others that you could consider right in the top 10

Your top 3 is basically my top 3 regarding WR's. It does get muddy after that I agree. Calvin Johnson was really great.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, Shaolin06 said:

I dont know how anyone could put marvin ahead of Randy moss in my opinion. The stats and eye test show that Randy was harder to cover then marvin. To me it's Jerry Rice, Randy moss, marvin Harrison as the top 3. It gets a little muddy after them though because micheal Irvin, Tim brown, Chris carter. Then you got Larry Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, Torry holt and a few others that you could consider right in the top 10

The thing with Randy was he took off plays at times and he looked ordinary in Oakland. Harrison does have a ring as well, Randy doesn't. Just playing devils advocate here. Having said that I won't debate  between Harrison and Randy because both are pretty even. Randy was more athletic but Marvin was a better route runner, both were real fast.

[Shaolin06]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The thing with Randy was he took off plays at times and he looked ordinary in Oakland. Harrison does have a ring as well, Randy doesn't. Just playing devils advocate here. Having said that I won't debate  between Harrison and Randy because both are pretty even. Randy was more athletic but Marvin was a better route runner, both were real fast.

Yea Randy definitely didn't have the same work ethic as Jerry or marvin. Marvin will always be one of my favorites and because of my colts bias it's easy for someone to sway me into putting him second on the list lol.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, Shaolin06 said:

Yea Randy definitely didn't have the same work ethic as Jerry or marvin. Marvin will always be one of my favorites and because of my colts bias it's easy for someone to sway me into putting him second on the list lol.

Yeah I try not to let my Colts bias get in the way when I do lists, it is tough sometime. I can understand why anyone would say Randy should be ranked higher. Randy was a freak and was so tall, a QB could just throw a long one to him and on 50/50 balls, he would catch it. 

 

I have gone back and forth over the years regarding Peyton and Tom. My Colts bias says Peyton is the GOAT, he is also my favorite player of all-time so I hate, let me repeat I hate putting Tom #1. I just factor in everything but saying Peyton is #3 isn't a dis , that is practically saying he is damn near the GOAT. I have Montana 2nd because I felt like during the 80's which had all kinds of great teams, he won 4 SB's and was flawless in those SB's. You don't get anymore clutch than him.

 

I get the Emmitt Smith hate on this board, most here hate the Cowboys but once again when ranking players people should put that aside IMO. Otherwise the list becomes who somebody loves and hates.

[Dark Superman]

Jimmy's off the head lately. Lol.

[Moosejawcolt]

On 6/4/2023 at 12:04 AM, jvan1973 said:

Ricky Williams over Emmitt?   Are you smoking what Ricky was smoking?

Not lately