Jeff and.... accountability....

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

Ballard might have said that in 2017, his first year here, but otherwise….?

 

And, in his early years, he has said the locker room wasn’t ready for a big over the top personality to keep that player in check.   But that was years and years ago.  17, 18, and maybe 19. 
 

But since roughly 2020, Ballard has said the locker room was fully ready.  That said, he’s elected NOT to sign anyone with a big personality like OBJ.   But that doesn’t mean the locker room isn’t ready. 
 

Pretty sure it was after the 2019 season.  

[EastStreet]

7 hours ago, DougDew said:

"His leadership, that's huge," Wayne said. "Holding guys accountable. Not saying that Frank didn't have none of these things since Frank had them also, they just do them in different ways. Jeff's not afraid to go in your face and tell you, that play, you sucked. I think not every player can handle that. But as a former player myself, if I suck, I want somebody to be able to tell me. I don't want to put bad film on tape. I think in that regard most players respect that, and Jeff's not afraid to challenge guys that way."

 

Hey boss, you're so much better than the other boss, especially since we're buddies from back in the day.  Smooch.

 

Same kind of promotional nonsense that happens a lot when there is a transition.  I'm sure "accountability" is going to quickly become an overused word that has little substantive meaning....like a Brand Name that will be used to describe Saturday's method.

 

So the specific method of accountability is that Jeff gets in someone's face, so that the player won't put bad film on tape, which he doesn't want to do in the first place.    I would describe that as a player attitude issue more than a coaching issue, but maybe some players need more of that Bobby Knight kind of approach to motivate their unmotivated selves. 

 

I would want players on the roster that prefer calm teaching, but a coach probably has to be able/prepared to do both depending upon what kind of player attitudes the GM brings you.  Sounds like Frank couldn't motivate those players on the roster that need more of that Bobby Knight approach.

 

Did Dungy ever get into Reggie's face?  Did he even have too?   Those would be interesting questions. 

[EastStreet]

 

[DougDew]

4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Ballard might have said that in 2017, his first year here, but otherwise….?

 

And, in his early years, he has said the locker room wasn’t ready for a big over the top personality to keep that player in check.   But that was years and years ago.  17, 18, and maybe 19. 
 

But since roughly 2020, Ballard has said the locker room was fully ready.  That said, he’s elected NOT to sign anyone with a big personality like OBJ.   But that doesn’t mean the locker room isn’t ready. 
 

Yeah, I don't know if Ballard said leadership from the locker room was lacking, or exactly what he meant by not wanting to introduce big personalities into the room.

 

I think Chloe's main point stands though.  If you look at those PM lead teams, there was a lot of accountability maintained by the players on each other, IMO.  Obviously PM, but here PMs ex-center is making a deal about accountability too. 

 

Just wondering who on the offense has that stature to hold others accountable without the coach having to step in and do it.  Nelson?  Maybe, is he a Captain?  Is he even the Captain of the oline or is that the Center, Kelly.

 

And did Saturday ever hold the receivers accountable, or the TEs.  I know PM would have.

 

Wasn't Ryan supposed to have this great leadership...and weren't we told that he was calling out players during summer camp, or was that just promotional material?

 

I remain skeptical that all of this must come from the coaches.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

19 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yeah, I don't know if Ballard said leadership from the locker room was lacking, or exactly what he meant by not wanting to introduce big personalities into the room.

 

I think Chloe's main point stands though.  If you look at those PM lead teams, there was a lot of accountability maintained by the players on each other, IMO.  Obviously PM, but here PMs ex-center is making a deal about accountability too. 

 

Just wondering who on the offense has that stature to hold others accountable without the coach having to step in and do it.  Nelson?  Maybe, is he a Captain?  Is he even the Captain of the oline or is that the Center, Kelly.

 

And did Saturday ever hold the receivers accountable, or the TEs.  I know PM would have.

 

Wasn't Ryan supposed to have this great leadership...and weren't we told that he was calling out players during summer camp, or was that just promotional material?

 

I remain skeptical that all of this must come from the coaches.

Nelson is a captain. I think Ryan is being a great leader. But when he was playing so bad it kind of fell on death ears. Ryan said he had even called out the oline. I think the oline just lost so much confidence. It was hard to get back. Hopefully with Saturday they gain some confidence back.

[crazycolt1]

Without being in the locker room no one knows what is said and being done.  

According to the players that were there it was Jeff that was the verbal one.  

I think that was the main reasons Irsay picked Jeff to be the head coach. Personally I anticipate that Irsay will want Jeff back as full time coach next season. 

[EastStreet]

6 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Without being in the locker room no one knows what is said and being done.  

According to the players that were there it was Jeff that was the verbal one.  

I think that was the main reasons Irsay picked Jeff to be the head coach. Personally I anticipate that Irsay will want Jeff back as full time coach next season. 

 

Way too early to say (perm job), but vibes feel like it. 

 

One person can be the difference, especially a HC.

The team identity and demeanor seems different. 

Not sure Jeff is the long term answer, but we'll see.

 

[DougDew]

49 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Without being in the locker room no one knows what is said and being done.  

According to the players that were there it was Jeff that was the verbal one.  

I think that was the main reasons Irsay picked Jeff to be the head coach. Personally I anticipate that Irsay will want Jeff back as full time coach next season. 

Yeah, it looks like none of the vet players have been very verbal, but we don't have that many vet players on offense either.  And the vets we do have are not playing well, so they don't have much leg to stand on. 

 

I assume in the PM days, PM, Saturday were verbal, and consistently good.   Maybe Reggie verbal too?   I think Marvin and Glenn were pretty quiet dudes.   All of those played well and could have the stature to call out other players or even each other.

[crazycolt1]

46 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Way too early to say (perm job), but vibes feel like it. 

 

One person can be the difference, especially a HC.

The team identity and demeanor seems different. 

Not sure Jeff is the long term answer, but we'll see.

 

Unfortunately I think locker rooms are not as tight as maybe in the past.  A lot of the players are looking at their own brands and chasing big money contracts.  I can't blame them for that but it does hamper the team spirit as a whole unit. 

[EastStreet]

Just now, crazycolt1 said:

Unfortunately I think locker rooms are not as tight as maybe in the past.  A lot of the players are looking at their own brands and chasing big money contracts.  I can't blame them for that but it does hamper the team spirit as a whole unit. 

Yup. QBs are a huge piece of the leadership, and "locker room". 

And the QB musical chairs for the last 5 years is not healthy for the "locker room"

 

I'm OK with guys wanting money.. just not when they have 2 years left... 

[Happy2BeHere]

Title says “Jeff and.... accountability....”

 

…so is he like teaching them statement of cash flows, profit ratio’s, balance sheets…that kinda stuff ??  

[Happy2BeHere]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

Yup. QBs are a huge piece of the leadership, and "locker room". 

And the QB musical chairs for the last 5 years is not healthy for the "locker room"

 

I'm OK with guys wanting money.. just not when they have 2 years left... 

yea contracts in the sports world…ESPECIALLY in the NFL are about as solid and meaningful as an old guy on laxatives. 
 

Players only honor them if it benefits them…otherwise they whine until they get what they want.

[smittywerb]

The fact that Pryor started all those games was all I needed to know something wasn’t right.  Lol

[EastStreet]

 

[lilolemoi]

Has anyone but Pryor been held accountable, or has it been stern lectures? Sounds like walk throughs were a disaster.

[EastStreet]

3 hours ago, lilolemoi said:

Has anyone but Pryor been held accountable, or has it been stern lectures? Sounds like walk throughs were a disaster.

 

IDK. But there's a difference between holding accountable, and sitting. 

And you can't sit some guys, without harming the team (if you don't a replacement).

 

I'm guessing Jeff is staying out of the D side. I'm sure he works with Gus on strategy/plan, but not micro on personnel. 

He is likely micro on the O... On that side... Fries has been playing better (not great, but better). Raimann is playing better (not great). RK was horrible vs Philly, but better vs Pitt. Doubt he is worried with Q and Smith. 

 

JT has 3 TDs, in 3 games. He only had 1 TD in previous 9 games. So probably happy with JT, and OL run blocking improvements (still not great, but better). Matt Ryan has only 1 INT in 3 games, and had 9 in previous games. The fumble was not his issue game, so that aspect has improved too. In short, we aren't great or good, but we have improved IMO. Better 1Q and 1H O, and close in the 4Q. 

 

Dallas game will be very tough... especially without Smith. We should get destroyed. If we compete at all, I'd be surprised. 

[GoColts8818]

7 hours ago, lilolemoi said:

Has anyone but Pryor been held accountable, or has it been stern lectures? Sounds like walk throughs were a disaster.

I mean they fired the head coach and OC and benched Ryan at one point.  They also benched Pinter and Facyson has been losing snaps to Rodgers.  They also cut Hot Rod.  So yeah people have been held accountable.

[crazycolt1]

8 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I mean they fired the head coach and OC and benched Ryan at one point.  They also benched Pinter and Facyson has been losing snaps to Rodgers.  They also cut Hot Rod.  So yeah people have been held accountable.

Kinda put a dent in the narrative. 

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

Kinda put a dent in the narrative. 

I don’t know what people want, well I do they want the Colts to win.  This team just isn’t good and you can’t bench or cut everyone.  You have to play someone so odds are you are going to have to wait until the end of the year for changes which is the ultimate form of accountability.  During the season holding people accountable is mostly done in the film room when you show players their mistakes followed by practices when you work with them on what you want them to do better.  That’s something we don’t and won’t have access too because you don’t hold people accountable in public.  So if people honestly don’t think the coaches are doing the above with the players I’d tell them they are naive or are just upset that it’s not working.  

[Superman]

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

I don’t know what people want, well I do they want the Colts to win.  This team just isn’t good and you can’t bench or cut everyone.  You have to play someone so odds are you are going to have to wait until the end of the year for changes which is the ultimate form of accountability.  During the season holding people accountable is mostly done in the film room when you show players their mistakes followed by practices when you work with them on what you want them to do better.  That’s something we don’t and won’t have access too because you don’t hold people accountable in public.  So if people honestly don’t think the coaches are doing the above with the players I’d tell them they are naive or are just upset that it’s not working.  

 

Scarlet letters? Public stonings? 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I don’t know what people want, well I do they want the Colts to win.  This team just isn’t good and you can’t bench or cut everyone.  You have to play someone so odds are you are going to have to wait until the end of the year for changes which is the ultimate form of accountability.  During the season holding people accountable is mostly done in the film room when you show players their mistakes followed by practices when you work with them on what you want them to do better.  That’s something we don’t and won’t have access too because you don’t hold people accountable in public.  So if people honestly don’t think the coaches are doing the above with the players I’d tell them they are naive or are just upset that it’s not working.  

We all want to win. I bet Pats fans are so depressed after the run they had with Tom that they don't even want to show their face.  3 years in a row they have been average at 23-23. They know how we feel now.

[lilolemoi]

On 12/3/2022 at 8:47 PM, GoColts8818 said:

I mean they fired the head coach and OC and benched Ryan at one point.  They also benched Pinter and Facyson has been losing snaps to Rodgers.  They also cut Hot Rod.  So yeah people have been held accountable.

 

The thread is about SATURDAY.

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, lilolemoi said:

 

The thread is about SATURDAY.

Then your original point was wrong because it was Reich who benched Pryor in the New England game not Saturday.

[lilolemoi]

3 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Then your original point was wrong because it was Reich who benched Pryor in the New England game not Saturday.

 

Saturday's first game was a week later. OK it was Frank. My point was Saturday hasn't held anyone accountable.

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, lilolemoi said:

 

Saturday's first game was a week later. OK it was Frank. My point was Saturday hasn't held anyone accountable.

 

Define "holding accountable"

[lilolemoi]

Just now, EastStreet said:

 

Define "holding accountable"

 

When Reich did it, he was throwing scapegoats under the bus. But it's easy. If you don't perform, you're benched.

[GoColts8818]

2 minutes ago, lilolemoi said:

 

Saturday's first game was a week later. OK it was Frank. My point was Saturday hasn't held anyone accountable.

Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.  Also just because it doesn’t work doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

[EastStreet]

Just now, lilolemoi said:

 

When Reich did it, he was throwing scapegoats under the bus. But it's easy. If you don't perform, you're benched.

 

So "benching" is holding accountable? Just trying to understand... 

[lilolemoi]

Just now, GoColts8818 said:

Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.  Also just because it doesn’t work doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

 

If it doesn't work, go back to ESPN. This isn't high school football.

Just now, EastStreet said:

 

So "benching" is holding accountable? Just trying to understand... 

 

Yes, you don't give play time to players who aren't performing.

[GoColts8818]

Just now, lilolemoi said:

 

When Reich did it, he was throwing scapegoats under the bus. But it's easy. If you don't perform, you're benched.

Soo when Reich held someone accountable for something he was throwing others under the bus yet you complain that Saturday doesn’t do it?  You can’t have it both ways.  
 

You also can’t bench the whole team, someone has to play.  There are other ways to hold people accountable than benching them.  Frankly during the season most of holding players accountable is done in the film room when you make them watch their mistakes, talk about why it was mistake and how they correct it.  Then you see if they correct it in practice and games.  If they don’t and you have another option then you bench them.  In a large number of cases the Colts don’t have other options.  Which means then you work on replacing them with a better player which isn’t going to happen until the off-season.  

2 minutes ago, lilolemoi said:

 

If it doesn't work, go back to ESPN. This isn't high school football.

 

Yes, you don't give play time to players who aren't performing.

You can’t bench the whole roster.

[EastStreet]

Just now, lilolemoi said:

Yes, you don't give play time to players who aren't performing.

 

OK. Our run D was horrible. Let Pollard run for 7.0+ ypa... 

So bench Defo, Paye, Grover, and Yannick?

Yannick has always been horrible at run D. 

So bench Ryan Kelly and Fries, who both struggled again today?

[lilolemoi]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

OK. Our run D was horrible. Let Pollard run for 7.0+ ypa... 

So bench Defo, Paye, Grover, and Yannick?

Yannick has always been horrible at run D. 

So bench Ryan Kelly and Fries, who both struggled again today?

 

Paye is just back from an injury. Yes, bench Kelly, Fries and Ngakoue, but this was a one off for Defo and Grover. 

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, lilolemoi said:

 

Paye is just back from an injury. Yes, bench Kelly, Fries and Ngakoue, but this was a one off for Defo and Grover. 

 

Half our team would be benched... I guess raid the practice squad?

And zero TEs either... Mo fumbled... Granson whiffed several times today. Woods has 3 drops in the last 4 games... 

[lilolemoi]

11 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Soo when Reich held someone accountable for something he was throwing others under the bus yet you complain that Saturday doesn’t do it?  You can’t have it both ways.  

 

Reich consistently has never had this team ready at the beginning of the season. Brady didn't deserve to be fired. Blankenship was on Ballard. Pryor should've been benched. Starting Ehlinger was an act of desperation. Reich had lost the locker room, but starting the same bad players in the same positions week after week isn't accountability. I thought Dennis Kelly did better at LT than Raimann and the whole O line played better with him at that position.

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

 

Half our team would be benched... I guess raid the practice squad?

And zero TEs either... Mo fumbled... Granson whiffed several times today. Woods has 3 drops in the last 4 games... 

 

Then raid the practice squad lol.

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, lilolemoi said:

 

Then raid the practice squad lol.

 

lol.. you can't bench half the team... 

you call it out. you stop practices. you do over stuff. 

there are other ways to "hold accountable", and you can't be unrealistic. 

[Breeze]

I don’t see how you can make an assessment of Saturday at this point.  We’re stuck in the same pathetic offensive and defensive schemes until next off season.  The current roster spent all of last off season preparing for this clown show, so it’s not going to change overnight.  I used to fantasize about the hot girl I was never gonna get.  Now I fantasize about a defense that relies on more than our front 4 to go after the quarterback, which I’m also never gonna get!

[IndySouthsider]

A dysfunctional group of millionaires. They aren’t well coached. They aren’t sticking to assignments. How many times did they not seal the edge last night? How many times did they pass off a receiver to nobody to pass it off too? 
 

How much of the oline is assignments being missed versus talent to play?

 

It’s beyond time to let the losers teach the Colts. And Gus was fired from Jacksonville because he was known to be too soft.

 

 

[lilolemoi]

16 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

lol.. you can't bench half the team... 

you call it out. you stop practices. you do over stuff. 

there are other ways to "hold accountable", and you can't be unrealistic. 

 

Saturday says he's evaluating all positions including QB. I'm sure he's having some talks with Irsay about the roster.

 

 

[EastStreet]

3 hours ago, lilolemoi said:

 

Saturday says he's evaluating all positions including QB. I'm sure he's having some talks with Irsay about the roster.

 

 

 

I'm sure he is evaluating every position. None of the QBs will be starters for Indy in 2023. Personally, that is the simplest thing for me. Just need to use the "best bad" option (for the "now), that is best for other positions. 

[Moosejawcolt]

On 11/18/2022 at 5:21 PM, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Nelson is a captain. I think Ryan is being a great leader. But when he was playing so bad it kind of fell on death ears. Ryan said he had even called out the oline. I think the oline just lost so much confidence. It was hard to get back. Hopefully with Saturday they gain some confidence back.

Like I have previously stated. U lead  1st your  play than words. How can u lead a team when u have been playing like Ryan and Nelson? It falls  on deaf ears.