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Jeff and.... accountability....


EastStreet
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5 hours ago, EastStreet said:

“On all fronts. And obviously, I know that position specifically. And I have a lot of respect for what those guys have done and the way they carry themselves at that position on the team. And I believe that needed to be addressed and emphasized. Those guys responded tremendously." - Jeff Saturday

Respect for others and  the efforts of others is an important piece of this puzzle.

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I like accountability and Saturday, but the articles seem to read like a fluff piece designed to pump up the new coach.  That's fine, its part of the media's job to keep up motivation and positivity.  Short on specifics about accountability, high on player-speak about their new coach (Hey coach, you do things so much better than the other guy used to, smooch).

 

But being a media guy who wants to be taken seriously, he is compelled to mention the facts, at least in passing and CYA, behind why the line played better.....

 

The results, with Bernhard Raimann at left tackle and Will Fries at right guard, worked.

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One thing I think is funny about this one topic is how, for weeks prior to Saturday, part of the radio conversation was how people need to be held accountable and they wondered if either Frank or Ballard wasn't doing that, which affected the results on the field.  Then Saturday comes in and his intro presser mentioned accountability at least a couple of times.  Then in the days that followed players mentioned this about Saturday and how they liked it (Campbell, Gilly and McLeod for instance) and then we play better basically across the roster.  

 

Like I don't know the portions of everything Jeff Saturday has done in the 5 days leading up to the Raiders game, all I know is it's different.  Now let's see if we can sustain it going forward.  The Eagles are about as close to a complete team as you can get.  Accountability won't win this alone.

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1 hour ago, DougDew said:

I like accountability and Saturday, but the articles seem to read like a fluff piece designed to pump up the new coach.  That's fine, its part of the media's job to keep up motivation and positivity.  Short on specifics about accountability, high on player-speak about their new coach (Hey coach, you do things so much better than the other guy used to, smooch).

 

But being a media guy who wants to be taken seriously, he is compelled to mention the facts, at least in passing and CYA, behind why the line played better.....

 

The results, with Bernhard Raimann at left tackle and Will Fries at right guard, worked.

 

Well that's exactly what it is...post hoc fallacy, designed to hype Saturday while scapegoating Reich.

 

This is straight out of their playbook. And if you think it looks familiar, it's because they did the exact same thing this offseason...except the names and intangible were different.

 

Frank Reich = Carson Wentz

Jeff Saturday = Matt Ryan

"Accountability" = "Leadership"

 

Saturday no doubt has had a positive influence on the roster. But he took over the week that the Colts were getting ready to play the biggest dumpster fire in the NFL. Not only is LV the the worst defense and worst pass-rushing team in the NFL, their defensive effort is very questionable and they seem disinterested. Carr and Adams called them out after the game.

 

Just watch them jog after Matt Ryan or not try to tackle on PC on the go-ahead TD. As it relates to the OL, just look at some of those clips, especially the one of Fries "stoning" Chandler Jones: 

 

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6 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Well that's exactly what it is...post hoc fallacy, designed to hype Saturday while scapegoating Reich.

 

This is straight out of their playbook. And if you think it looks familiar, it's because they did the exact same thing this offseason...except the names and intangible were different.

 

Frank Reich = Carson Wentz

Jeff Saturday = Matt Ryan

"Accountability" = "Leadership"

 

Saturday no doubt has had a positive influence on the roster. But he took over the week that the Colts were getting ready to play the biggest dumpster fire in the NFL. Not only is LV the the worst defense and worst pass-rushing team in the NFL, their defensive effort is very questionable and they seem disinterested. Carr and Adams called them out after the game.

 

Just watch them jog after Matt Ryan or not try to tackle on PC on the go-ahead TD. As it relates to the OL, just look at some of those clips, especially the one of Fries "stoning" Chandler Jones: 

 

It happens in all businesses.   Its a promotional template.   Blame what's wrong with the company on the guy that's no longer here by touting that anything good that happens were the result of the change.

 

The reality is always somewhere in the middle.

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4 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Well that's exactly what it is...post hoc fallacy, designed to hype Saturday while scapegoating Reich.

 

This is straight out of their playbook. And if you think it looks familiar, it's because they did the exact same thing this offseason...except the names and intangible were different.

 

Frank Reich = Carson Wentz

Jeff Saturday = Matt Ryan

"Accountability" = "Leadership"

 

Saturday no doubt has had a positive influence on the roster. But he took over the week that the Colts were getting ready to play the biggest dumpster fire in the NFL. Not only is LV the the worst defense and worst pass-rushing team in the NFL, their defensive effort is very questionable and they seem disinterested. Carr and Adams called them out after the game.

 

Just watch them jog after Matt Ryan or not try to tackle on PC on the go-ahead TD. As it relates to the OL, just look at some of those clips, especially the one of Fries "stoning" Chandler Jones: 

 

Raiders have lost 6 games by 1 score or less, they arguably have the best WR in the league and a good QB. Crosby is a beast on defense. They could easily be 7-2 instead of 2-7. They have given away games all season. Lets not downplay the win, don't be that guy.

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29 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

One thing I think is funny about this one topic is how, for weeks prior to Saturday, part of the radio conversation was how people need to be held accountable and they wondered if either Frank or Ballard wasn't doing that, which affected the results on the field.  Then Saturday comes in and his intro presser mentioned accountability at least a couple of times.  Then in the days that followed players mentioned this about Saturday and how they liked it (Campbell, Gilly and McLeod for instance) and then we play better basically across the roster.  

 

Like I don't know the portions of everything Jeff Saturday has done in the 5 days leading up to the Raiders game, all I know is it's different.  Now let's see if we can sustain it going forward.  The Eagles are about as close to a complete team as you can get.  Accountability won't win this alone.

 

It's just a talking point. But if the players are happy with Saturday, that's good enough for me.

 

But it is funny. I mean...what type of accountability could have occurred in the few days he was there (when they hadn't even played a game for Saturday yet)? "You guys better play well against this bad team or else"

 

The only ones who got held accountable were apparently Pryor, Pinter and Ehlinger. 

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24 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

It's just a talking point. But if the players are happy with Saturday, that's good enough for me.

 

But it is funny. I mean...what type of accountability could have occurred in the few days he was there (when they hadn't even played a game for Saturday yet)? "You guys better play well against this bad team or else"

 

The only ones who got held accountable were apparently Pryor, Pinter and Ehlinger. 

Only thing I can think of is the obvious thing.  Pryor got benched for horrendous play. 

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3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Raiders have lost 6 games by 1 score or less, they arguably have the best WR in the league and a good QB. Crosby is a beast on defense. They could easily be 7-2 instead of 2-7. They have given away games all season. Lets not downplay the win, don't be that guy.

 

I know it bothers you man, but I just call it how I see it. I went back and watched this whole game.

 

Most games in the NFL are within one score on average. There's like 4 teams who have an average margin beyond one score. So you could make that bad argument about a lot of teams.

 

A 2-win team is a 2-win team. Prior to this game, they had beat a 1-win HOU team, got shut out by a 3-win NO team and then lost by 7 to a 3-win JAC team. This isn't the early season version of LV. 

 

They have a decent offense true, but they had just put their top 5 TE and slot WR (who torched the Colts last season) on IR prior to this game. Still, they were a Foster Moreau bobble from dropping 28 on the defense. Wonder what the narrative would have been if that happened.

 

But this thread is about the OL and offense...and LV has the league's worst defense and pass rush. They had ONE sack in the past 4 games. Ignoring that context is just being a homer.

 

And to make matters worse, after the game, that "good QB" and "best WR in the league" actually called out the (lack of) effort of the team, which was clearly on display in this game. They have players that appear to be disinterested at this point, unlike earlier in the season. There is even speculation that they are losing to get McDaniels fired. 

 

The LV win is something to build off of, but we did a similar song and dance after the JAC win...where people were saying things were fixed. And then went into TEN and got stomped by a better team. And the craziness of the last few weeks ensued.

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23 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Only thing I can think of is the obvious thing.  Pryor got benched for horrendous play. 

 

That's what I mean. Benching Pryor was an obvious move, not some great example of accountability. And Fries played in the NE game, so that wasn't even some new move made by Saturday.

 

Was Kenny Moore out there? Was Ryan Kelly out there? 

 

Yes, it was business as usual, except for two spots...LT and QB.

 

The irony is that the QB had actually been held accountable and benched just two weeks earlier, which supposedly upset some players (or many depending on who you ask). But now accountability is all the rage and the players love it haha.

 

This % just rings hollow to me man. They played well against a bad team that is in major dysfunction. Basically a role reversal from the prior week. And they barely won. 

 

I know I am cynic by default though. But still, the players like Saturday and that's good enough for me. And as I have said, I am intrigued to see what the direction of this team will look like this spring. 

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23 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

And to make matters worse, after the game, that "good QB" and "best WR in the league" actually called out the (lack of) effort of the team, which was clearly on display in this game. They have players that appear to be disinterested at this point, unlike earlier in the season. There is even speculation that they are losing to get McDaniels fired. 

Bingo.  I can't say that I follow LV closely, but I thought two weeks ago that they were just one step behind us as far as being depressed and unmotivated about their chances of winning, for a number of reasons.  The W/L record isn't keeping pace in the AFC, injuries, and little faith that their HC can effect the change needed if not being a contributor to the problem.

 

I don't mean to discount the win.  I thought the Colts played their best in a while, but LV was physically and mentally not a great challenge, IMO.  It was good timing for us (and maybe why Irsay made the change when he did)

 

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11 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Bingo.  I can't say that I follow LV closely, but I thought two weeks ago that they were just one step behind us as far as being depressed and unmotivated about their chances of winning, for a number of reasons.  The W/L record isn't keeping pace in the AFC, injuries, and little faith that their HC can effect the change needed if not being a contributor to the problem.

 

I don't mean to discount the win.  I thought the Colts played their best in a while, but LV was physically and mentally not a great challenge, IMO.  It was good timing for us (and maybe why Irsay made the change when he did)

 

 

LV looks done. But if they canned McDaniels, I bet they would see a lift.

 

I don't really care if people think I am downplaying it...it's obvious context. Even in that Twitter thread I posted, the guy mentions it. It's perfectly fine to add context when a team loses too...happens all the time around here.

 

This week will be a great test. 

 

Saturday's is in a great spot though either way. All he has to answer for is effort. If the Colts had lost this game at the end, the narrative would have been the same. And I doubt many expect him to beat teams like PHI, DAL and MIN. 

 

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I think Frank had his own way of holding players accountable but Saturday is a new voice with his own way.  That’s one of the reasons to change coaches.  It’s possible the players had tuned Frank out to some extent, no long believed what he was selling, or realized man we just got the head coach fired we might want to step it up here.  Either way Saturday is here and he clearly produced results last week.  Like I said before, now the next challenge, maintaining it.

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Jeff Saturday is bringing a different message - being willing to try new things - and - earning the respect of his locker room!!

 

Saturday isn't a "savior" - he's simply bringing a new energy and new attitude.

 

I wish him well in his endeavor the remainder of the year - and - we shall see how the team responds.

 

God bless you Jeff Saturday - your coaching staff - and - your players!!

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2 minutes ago, indyagent17 said:

I’ll tell you this if Saturday is able to get this team especially the offensive line moving forward that says a lot about Frank Reich and how he’ll never be a head coach again

 

I'm sure he'll get another chance, perhaps not at HC, but he'll get another chance. 

The NFL loves to recycle. 

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Another Coach and former player, Reggie Wayne,  praises Saturday for holding players accountable….almost like….he really is holding people accountable…. 

 

"His leadership, that's huge," Wayne said. "Holding guys accountable. Not saying that Frank didn't have none of these things since Frank had them also, they just do them in different ways. Jeff's not afraid to go in your face and tell you, that play, you sucked. I think not every player can handle that. But as a former player myself, if I suck, I want somebody to be able to tell me. I don't want to put bad film on tape. I think in that regard most players respect that, and Jeff's not afraid to challenge guys that way."

 

6 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

That's what I mean. Benching Pryor was an obvious move, not some great example of accountability


I’m confused(and it happens easily) but isn’t benching a player because he’s not holding up his end of the bargain pretty much holding him accountable? You suck, you sit?

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8 minutes ago, HOZER said:

Another Coach and former player, Reggie Wayne,  praises Saturday for holding players accountable….almost like….he really is holding people accountable…. 

 

"His leadership, that's huge," Wayne said. "Holding guys accountable. Not saying that Frank didn't have none of these things since Frank had them also, they just do them in different ways. Jeff's not afraid to go in your face and tell you, that play, you sucked. I think not every player can handle that. But as a former player myself, if I suck, I want somebody to be able to tell me. I don't want to put bad film on tape. I think in that regard most players respect that, and Jeff's not afraid to challenge guys that way."

 


I’m confused(and it happens easily) but isn’t benching a player because he’s not holding up his end of the bargain pretty much holding him accountable? You suck, you sit?

 

Love the quote. Pointed out the difference, but didn't throw Frank under the bus. But it's obvious that there is a change in style, and demeanor. And most quotes we see from the team, all harp on accountability. Love it. 

 

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"His leadership, that's huge," Wayne said. "Holding guys accountable. Not saying that Frank didn't have none of these things since Frank had them also, they just do them in different ways. Jeff's not afraid to go in your face and tell you, that play, you sucked. I think not every player can handle that. But as a former player myself, if I suck, I want somebody to be able to tell me. I don't want to put bad film on tape. I think in that regard most players respect that, and Jeff's not afraid to challenge guys that way."

 

Hey boss, you're so much better than the other boss, especially since we're buddies from back in the day.  Smooch.

 

Same kind of promotional nonsense that happens a lot when there is a transition.  I'm sure "accountability" is going to quickly become an overused word that has little substantive meaning....like a Brand Name that will be used to describe Saturday's method.

 

So the specific method of accountability is that Jeff gets in someone's face, so that the player won't put bad film on tape, which he doesn't want to do in the first place.    I would describe that as a player attitude issue more than a coaching issue, but maybe some players need more of that Bobby Knight kind of approach to motivate their unmotivated selves. 

 

I would want players on the roster that prefer calm teaching, but a coach probably has to be able/prepared to do both depending upon what kind of player attitudes the GM brings you.  Sounds like Frank couldn't motivate those players on the roster that need more of that Bobby Knight approach.

 

Did Dungy ever get into Reggie's face?  Did he even have too?   Those would be interesting questions. 

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23 minutes ago, DougDew said:

"His leadership, that's huge," Wayne said. "Holding guys accountable. Not saying that Frank didn't have none of these things since Frank had them also, they just do them in different ways. Jeff's not afraid to go in your face and tell you, that play, you sucked. I think not every player can handle that. But as a former player myself, if I suck, I want somebody to be able to tell me. I don't want to put bad film on tape. I think in that regard most players respect that, and Jeff's not afraid to challenge guys that way."

 

Hey boss, you're so much better than the other boss, especially since we're buddies from back in the day.  Smooch.

 

Same kind of promotional nonsense that happens a lot when there is a transition.  I'm sure "accountability" is going to quickly become an overused word that has little substantive meaning....like a Brand Name that will be used to describe Saturday's method.

 

So the specific method of accountability is that Jeff gets in someone's face, so that the player won't put bad film on tape, which he doesn't want to do in the first place.    I would describe that as a player attitude issue more than a coaching issue, but maybe some players need more of that Bobby Knight kind of approach to motivate their unmotivated selves. 

 

I would want players on the roster that prefer calm teaching, but a coach probably has to be able/prepared to do both depending upon what kind of player attitudes the GM brings you.  Sounds like Frank couldn't motivate those players on the roster that need more of that Bobby Knight approach.

 

Did Dungy ever get into Reggie's face?  Did he even have too?   Those would be interesting questions. 

I think Kevin Bowen mentioned how those Peyton manning teams had such good leadership Dungy didn’t have to get in their faces. That tells you right there we may not have good enough leaders in this team. A couple years ago Ballard mentioned he didn’t think we had good enough leaders and players were not holding each other accountable. Seems we still have that issue.

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35 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I think Kevin Bowen mentioned how those Peyton manning teams had such good leadership Dungy didn’t have to get in their faces. That tells you right there we may not have good enough leaders in this team. A couple years ago Ballard mentioned he didn’t think we had good enough leaders and players were not holding each other accountable. Seems we still have that issue.

Yeah, if it has to come from the coach, its a bad mix of player juju.  Its also tough for that level of accountability to come from the players if your highly paid players are the ones that are underperforming.  Its hard for Nelson to be calling out Pryor...or even any WR or TE not playing up to par...can a G call out a QB for not playing well?

 

Didn't we hear in TC how Ryan was such a great leader...he was getting in the faces of some of the players...holding them accountable where Wentz was just one of the guys?  What happened to that during the season?  (Or maybe the media and player interviews were just pumping up the new QB?...lol)

 

If the demeanors of Reich and Dungy are the same, I'd like to know more about their differences in coaching practices.  "Accountability" is shaping up to be nothing more than a Brand Name.

 

After watching pro sports for many years, there seems to be this pattern that coaches get replaced by guys that have the opposite demeanor.   In DET a few years ago, Jim Schwartz was replaced by Jim Caldwell.  Players got tired of that in style and then appreciated the Caldwell calmness....liberated from the oppressive in your face style.   Other times, the nice guy style doesn't work after a while, then the in your face style is needed for a few years...until that gets old.

 

I hope that the change in style provides a spark for the rest of the season, but I'm not convinced that one style is inherently more successful than the other.  Ask Dungy.

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3 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I think Kevin Bowen mentioned how those Peyton manning teams had such good leadership Dungy didn’t have to get in their faces. That tells you right there we may not have good enough leaders in this team. A couple years ago Ballard mentioned he didn’t think we had good enough leaders and players were not holding each other accountable. Seems we still have that issue.


Ballard might have said that in 2017, his first year here, but otherwise….?

 

And, in his early years, he has said the locker room wasn’t ready for a big over the top personality to keep that player in check.   But that was years and years ago.  17, 18, and maybe 19. 
 

But since roughly 2020, Ballard has said the locker room was fully ready.  That said, he’s elected NOT to sign anyone with a big personality like OBJ.   But that doesn’t mean the locker room isn’t ready. 
 

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