I found proof Kenny Moore isn't giving 100%

[AKB]

Go to exactly 3:13 in the video.

 

He purposefully avoids the tackle, jumps out of the way. 

 

I also saw him on multiple plays not running at full speed. But there is clear proof.  If you need to, play it in slow motion. 

 

 

[Yoshinator]

I saw it, if he's the person I'm thinking of. Could have been one play, but with Moore, I believe it.

[Chucklez]

I dunno, he might be thinking "I see Bobby coming to wax him from the other side, if we hit him at the same time, it might actually help hm stay up."

It happens more than you would think, its how you see like 2. 3 or 4 guys all go to tackle someone and they somehow pop out of there and keep going.

Also, Kenny was shot out of a cannon on another play that comes to mind where he got a big tackle for a loss. I think he is just not as good this year and is on a downward trend in general, which just makes us think he isnt giving 100% compared to previous years... It's possible he just isnt that Pro Bowl level nickel anymore.

[lollygagger8]

I mentioned that to my brother in law when it happened live. 

 

Total business decision. 

 

Which I don't blame him......I wouldn't want to get hit by Okereke either. 

[Indy87]

Moore will be gone soon if he keeps playing like this. 

[luckyBatistuta]

2 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

I mentioned that to my brother in law when it happened live. 

 

Total business decision. 

 

Which I don't blame him......I wouldn't want to get hit by Okereke either. 

 neither would I want to get hit by him. Not sure he knows for definite that he’s going to be brought down by Okereke though. To just step aside and not make sure, hmmm

[2006Coltsbestever]

I watched the play at 3:10, it looked like to me he seen Okereke coming full speed and could make an easy tackle so he avoided an unnecessary collision that could have injured both players. I don't think he just gave up on the play.

[chad72]

Nah, Kenny is a Pro. Based on his knowledge of the play, the personnel in the proximity and the sidelines as another defender, he probably knew Jacobs  wouldn’t get that far.
 

He might not be worth the money he is asking for and he may be a step slower. But he’s NOT a loafer.

[Chucklez]

I think if you really cast your mind back and think about our games too, he has been in and making some big plays in most of the games. Sure he has made a few errors and been at fault for a few too, but he isnt necessarily BAD. I think we all just have such high expectations of him based off of the last few years, that when he isnt making a highlight reel in every game, we have a negative perception vs expectation. 

For instance, who is worse... Moore or Facyson? Sure Moore is making a lot more money than him, but in the grand scheme of things he isnt ruining our cap and he is still a decent player. if you ranked our entire CB room on the order in which you would want them covering opposing WRs, it would probably go:

Gilmore
Rodgers / Moore

Facyson / Flowers
Brown.

Let's not be too hard on the guy, he isnt costing us games.

[Indy87]

5 hours ago, AustinnKaine said:

Go to exactly 3:13 in the video.

 

He purposefully avoids the tackle, jumps out of the way. 

 

I also saw him on multiple plays not running at full speed. But there is clear proof.  If you need to, play it in slow motion. 

 

 

On 3rd and 8 at the 11:00 mark, Moore tries to tackle Adams. Adams doesn’t go down and there are several defenders trying to get adams down, and Moore stands there watching. I just feel like he doesn’t hustle that much. When he hustles he does really good. 
 

if Moore hustles and tries to help, adams goes down and it’s a 4th down. This is towards the end of the 4th qtr. so the game was on the line and Moore doesn’t feel a sense of urgency there. 
 

other than the 2 plays mentioned in this thread Moore did ok. 

[AKB]

57 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Nah, Kenny is a Pro. Based on his knowledge of the play, the personnel in the proximity and the sidelines as another defender, he probably knew Jacobs  wouldn’t get that far.
 

He might not be worth the money he is asking for and he may be a step slower. But he’s NOT a loafer.

He has not been giving full effort. It's easy to see. Regardless of if he thought okereke was gonna get the tackle he still should've made a play on the ball. He had the opportunity to hit Jacobs in the front and try and get the ball out. He made no attempt. He could've went low and tackled. Made no attempt. 

 

I'm out on Kenny Moore. Any player who is not 100% committed should get off the team. 

 

 

And not sure why you are saying "he's not a loafer" with such certainty. Film doesn't lie. Big difference between the effort Kenny is giving under eberflus compared to Gus Bradley. This is not an opinion, you can see him jogging in multiple plays. 

[Superman]

You can do this for every single player on the team.

[AKB]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

You can do this for every single player on the team.

I do not agree. I have seen Kenny Moore jogg around multiple times when in the vicinity of plays. He is very different in terms of effort compared to when he played under Eberflus

[Chucklez]

4 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

He has not been giving full effort. It's easy to see. Regardless of if he thought okereke was gonna get the tackle he still should've made a play on the ball. He had the opportunity to hit Jacobs in the front and try and get the ball out. He made no attempt. He could've went low and tackled. Made no attempt. 

 

I'm out on Kenny Moore. Any player who is not 100% committed should get off the team. 

 

 

And not sure why you are saying "he's not a loafer" with such certainty. Film doesn't lie. Big difference between the effort Kenny is giving under eberflus compared to his Bradley. This is not an opinion, you can see him jogging in multiple plays. 

To the bolded sentence, see my first post above, the 3rd from the top. He might not want to accidentally keep him up and also avoid a risk when he can see that Bobby is gonna take him down. It wouldve been an awkward angle to tackle him from with Bobby coming in from the side too.
 

21 minutes ago, Indy87 said:

On 3rd and 8 at the 11:00 mark, Moore tries to tackle Adams. Adams doesn’t go down and there are several defenders trying to get adams down, and Moore stands there watching. I just feel like he doesn’t hustle that much. When he hustles he does really good. 
 

if Moore hustles and tries to help, adams goes down and it’s a 4th down. This is towards the end of the 4th qtr. so the game was on the line and Moore doesn’t feel a sense of urgency there. 
 

other than the 2 plays mentioned in this thread Moore did ok. 

Not sure this is true, if he hustles and hurries to Adams from behind to tackle him, he is just tackling him forward against his team mates trying to get Adams down. Sure he could run all the way up to him and try to wrap around him and drag backwards, but he had just tripped up and was getting up, it is like less than half a second from when he is stood up that Adams has already pushed far enough for the first. I can totally see why in his head he is thinking, these 3 are gonna take him down. Im just adding an extra body to the pile if i come at this and increasing risk likelihood. 

Also, you dont wanna get banged for any penalties either like unecessary roughness.

[AKB]

5 minutes ago, Chucklez said:

To the bolded sentence, see my first post above, the 3rd from the top. He might not want to accidentally keep him up and also avoid a risk when he can see that Bobby is gonna take him down. It wouldve been an awkward angle to tackle him from with Bobby coming in from the side too.
 

Not sure this is true, if he hustles and hurries to Adams from behind to tackle him, he is just tackling him forward against his team mates trying to get Adams down. Sure he could run all the way up to him and try to wrap around him and drag backwards, but he had just tripped up and was getting up, it is like less than half a second from when he is stood up that Adams has already pushed far enough for the first. I can totally see why in his head he is thinking, these 3 are gonna take him down. Im just adding an extra body to the pile if i come at this and increasing risk likelihood. 

Also, you dont wanna get banged for any penalties either like unecessary roughness.

what????? Moore literally stands there, assuming the guy is tackled. Then he realizes he isn't tackled, acts startled, and then slowly starts making his way towards Adams.

 

There is no excuse for "well maybe ill hit this guy and he goes the wrong way" no. He should've hit jacobs, and he definitely was loafing on the play where Adams broke through on the bothced pass attempt. the Tape does not lie. And these are only a couple of examples, this has been happening all year with Moore. 

 

I believe this is his last year as a colt, and he knows it. I believe he is perserving his health for next year/contract. 

[DoubleE Colt]

I'm no expert on what goes on behind the scenes but I'm pretty sure every play and every player must be analysed and reviewed throughout the week from the previous game, I'm fairly confident if he wasn't playing for the team it would have been noticed and dealt with. If the people who know the playbook and know the players don't have an issue I'll live with it. 

[AKB]

Just now, DoubleE Colt said:

I'm no expert on what goes on behind the scenes but I'm pretty sure every play and every player must be analysed and reviewed throughout the week from the previous game, I'm fairly confident if he wasn't playing for the team it would have been noticed and dealt with. If the people who know the playbook and know the players don't have an issue I'll live with it. 

I believe he is doing enough to start... I don't think he is giving full effort though when it comes to throwing his body into plays like he used to. 

 

it's not gonna be a popular opinion on this board, especially after a win, but I don't care. I have seen him jogging a long multiple times, in multiple games this year.

 

They should have traded Kenny Moore, not Rock Ya-Sin 

[throwing BBZ]

Moore and Rogers both stood there as one of our guys was being drug a couple extra yards. That will be seen by Coach.

[Chucklez]

10 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

what????? Moore literally stands there, assuming the guy is tackled. Then he realizes he isn't tackled, acts startled, and then slowly starts making his way towards Adams.

 

There is no excuse for "well maybe ill hit this guy and he goes the wrong way" no. He should've hit jacobs, and he definitely was loafing on the play where Adams broke through on the bothced pass attempt. the Tape does not lie. And these are only a couple of examples, this has been happening all year with Moore. 

 

I believe this is his last year as a colt, and he knows it. I believe he is perserving his health for next year/contract. 

If he got up and tackled Adams from behind when literally 3 other colts are trying to drive him backwards away from the first down, he would be actively helping Adams get the first down.

Him slipping a second beforehand doesnt help, but maybe we should be asking the question of his 3 team mates as to why they werent able to bring 1 guy down rather than dumping on Kenny for arguably doing the right thing.

[AKB]

1 minute ago, Chucklez said:

If he got up and tackled Adams from behind when literally 3 other colts are trying to drive him backwards away from the first down, he would be actively helping Adams get the first down.

Him slipping a second beforehand doesnt help, but maybe we should be asking the question of his 3 team mates as to why they werent able to bring 1 guy down rather than dumping on Kenny for arguably doing the right thing.

if he never quit on the play adams wouldn't have gotten far enough to need 3 guys on him. 

 

he quit before the whistle. that's the point. play wasn't over, and Moore quit. 

[Chucklez]

Just now, AustinnKaine said:

if he never quit on the play adams wouldn't have gotten far enough to need 3 guys on him. 

 

he quit before the whistle. that's the point. play wasn't over, and Moore quit. 

This is just false. Go and watch the replay again, this time very slowly and look at the time between when he slips and gets up to when Adams is driving over the first down marker. The only humanly way possible that he even touches Adams before he has driven for the first down is if he jumps up and immediately jumps at Adams from behind, but then, like i said, he would be adding momentem to Adams moving forward, not down or backwards.

[AKB]

9 minutes ago, Chucklez said:

This is just false. Go and watch the replay again, this time very slowly and look at the time between when he slips and gets up to when Adams is driving over the first down marker. The only humanly way possible that he even touches Adams before he has driven for the first down is if he jumps up and immediately jumps at Adams from behind, but then, like i said, he would be adding momentem to Adams moving forward, not down or backwards.

you see When Kenny Moore starts walking right?

 

yeah so I went back and watched it again, there is an argument to be made that he thinks he might push the guy past the first line marker... i still don't agree with just standing still. He is literally just standing there. 

I feel like he isn't giving full effort, and it's not just because of those 2 plays. We could go back each week and find Kenny Moore doing this in almost every game. 

[jemack]

6 hours ago, AustinnKaine said:

Go to exactly 3:13 in the video.

 

He purposefully avoids the tackle, jumps out of the way. 

 

I also saw him on multiple plays not running at full speed. But there is clear proof.  If you need to, play it in slow motion. 

 

 

Lol watch Rodgers Sr at 11 mins.

[AKB]

 

 

 

 

Kenny Moore pff grade - 54.6

Isiah Rogers pff grade -  85.6 

Sthepon Gilmore pff grade - 77.0

Rock Ya-Sin pff grade - 67.4

 

 

 

We should have traded Moore instead of Ya-sin. Moore has clearly regressed, and I think a good portion of it is due to reduced effort. It's alright if you don't agree, just how I'm seeing it. 

[Superman]

36 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

I do not agree. I have seen Kenny Moore jogg around multiple times when in the vicinity of plays. He is very different in terms of effort compared to when he played under Eberflus

 

Let me say this: I think you're just targeting Kenny Moore because he asked for more money. So full disclosure, I think this "analysis" is going to be unfair from the start. No one's going to change anyone's mind on this, but I figured I should state my viewpoint clearly.

 

As for the substance, you could be right that Moore's effort isn't as high as it was under Eberflus. I don't know that for sure. Eberflus would make a big deal of calling players out for "loafing," several players commented on this in the past. I don't know if that specific element of accountability still exists now that Eberflus is gone. It could have an impact on overall effort, and no reason to think that Moore would be immune. It's also true that he's not having a good season overall. 

 

Also, the tackling sucked all game Sunday. I think a full analysis would show several defensive players not showing up to the ball at times.

 

Lastly, and more to the point, two or three clips from one game should not be presented as "proof." Every player has bad plays. No one never loafs. It's not helpful to boil anyone down to their worst moments, and then stand in judgment. If we did this the opposite way, I'd show you KM's best plays and tell you he's the greatest defender of all time. 

[AKB]

Just now, Superman said:

 

Let me say this: I think you're just targeting Kenny Moore because he asked for more money. So full disclosure, I think this "analysis" is going to be unfair from the start. No one's going to change anyone's mind on this, but I figured I should state my viewpoint clearly.

 

As for the substance, you could be right that Moore's effort isn't as high as it was under Eberflus. I don't know that for sure. Eberflus would make a big deal of calling players out for "loafing," several players commented on this in the past. I don't know if that specific element of accountability still exists now that Eberflus is gone. It could have an impact on overall effort, and no reason to think that Moore would be immune. It's also true that he's not having a good season overall. 

 

Also, the tackling sucked all game Sunday. I think a full analysis would show several defensive players not showing up to the ball at times.

 

Lastly, and more to the point, two or three clips from one game should not be presented as "proof." Every player has bad plays. No one never loafs. It's not helpful to boil anyone down to their worst moments, and then stand in judgment. If we did this the opposite way, I'd show you KM's best plays and tell you he's the greatest defender of all time. 

 

 

I think you're just targeting Kenny Moore because he asked for more money - you are making an assumption, please don't put words in my mouth. Players should be paid what they are worth. I have no issue with what he did this offseason, he did it the right way. (but I don't think he is underpaid)

 

So full disclosure, I think this "analysis" - this is not an anaylsis, this is just one or two plays that I found interesting. I have not gone by snap by snap to look at each play of the season. but when I am watching Kenny Moore looks different. He looks slower. 

 

I don't know if that specific element of accountability still exists now that Eberflus is gone - this is a good point, and something I have considered. so the best way to view this is to compare it to other players on the field, who are still upholding that Mantra. Buckner is a great exmaple. Regardless of if its still being preached or not, it is not something that should just disappear. There's a reason why flus' defense is constantly at the top of the league in terms of turnover. 

 

Also, the tackling sucked all game Sunday. I think a full analysis would show several defensive players not showing up to the ball at times. - I agree, I am not basing it on missed tackles, im basing this off of a player not running full speed, or stopping before the whistle. 

 

Lastly, and more to the point, two or three clips from one game should not be presented as "proof." Every player has bad plays. No one never loafs. It's not helpful to boil anyone down to their worst moments, and then stand in judgment. If we did this the opposite way, I'd show you KM's best plays and tell you he's the greatest defender of all time.  - Again im not basing this off of just one play. But you can clearly see him juke out of the way of the tackle. Can't lie, its there. 

 

 

 

[jemack]

1 hour ago, Indy87 said:

On 3rd and 8 at the 11:00 mark, Moore tries to tackle Adams. Adams doesn’t go down and there are several defenders trying to get adams down, and Moore stands there watching. I just feel like he doesn’t hustle that much. When he hustles he does really good. 
 

if Moore hustles and tries to help, adams goes down and it’s a 4th down. This is towards the end of the 4th qtr. so the game was on the line and Moore doesn’t feel a sense of urgency there. 
 

other than the 2 plays mentioned in this thread Moore did ok. 

Moore? Or Rodgers? I see Rodgers standing there as the gain goes for another 4 yrds.

[coltsva]

At 3:13 he was clearly trying to avoid a collision with his own teammate, Okereke. 

[AKB]

Just now, coltsva said:

At 3:13 he was clearly trying to avoid a collision with his own teammate, Okereke. 

rather or not he didnt wanna get hit by okereke is not a reason to avoid making the tackle. 

 

 

Kenny Moore pff grade - 54.6

[coltsva]

1 minute ago, AustinnKaine said:

rather or not he didnt wanna get hit by okereke is not a reason to avoid making the tackle. 

 

 

Kenny Moore pff grade - 54.6

Respectfully disagree. With the angle Moore was coming from, if he tried to jump in on the tackle he likely would have knocked Okereke off Jacobs. I'm not a huge Kenny Moore fan. Just calling it as I see it. 

[AKB]

7 minutes ago, coltsva said:

Respectfully disagree. With the angle Moore was coming from, if he tried to jump in on the tackle he likely would have knocked Okereke off Jacobs. I'm not a huge Kenny Moore fan. Just calling it as I see it. 

Yes I just don't agree with that. I think Kenny moore had the angle to make the tackle, and decided not to. He was head up on him, and could've made a play on the ball. 

 

And yes I know im being very tough on Kenny here. He definitely deserves it though. Only corner that's been worse on the roster is Facyson. Moore was never spectacular at anything, except effort. IMO most of the plays he made during his pro bowl year, were effort plays. He doesn't have spectacular agility. he doesn't have great hands, he doesn't have great speed, he small, his game revolves around effort. I am not seeing it this year. I don't think he will be a Colt next year. Probably gets traded. 

[Superman]

14 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

Buckner is a great exmaple. Regardless of if its still being preached or not, it is not something that should just disappear. There's a reason why flus' defense is constantly at the top of the league in terms of turnover. 

 

 

Just focusing on this, because like I said initially, you can find plays like this from every player, specifically on defense. Including Buckner. 

[AKB]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Just focusing on this, because like I said initially, you can find plays like this from every player, specifically on defense. Including Buckner. 

well sure, hopefully you are right. at the end of the day im a colts fan. I want Moore to be an all pro slot guy. But from what i've seen, he has regressed. His stats suggest he has regressed as well. 

 

(I wasn't event thinking of the contract situation when making this thread, but since you brought it up, Ballard definitely made the right choice in not paying Moore)

 

And i implore you to go and find a play where Buckner avoids contact during a tackle. You won't find it. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Can't be as.bad as when jalen Ramsey plays against Brady. Lol

[Solid84]

All I know is I facepalm almost every game over some play Moore did or didn’t make. 
 

He’s underperformed since at least the Raiders game last season. 

[AKB]

Just now, Solid84 said:

All I know is I facepalm almost every game over some play Moore did or didn’t make. 
 

He’s underperformed since at least the Raiders game last season. 

glad im not the only one who has seen it. was starting to feel a little crazy. 

[Solid84]

1 minute ago, AustinnKaine said:

glad im not the only one who has seen it. was starting to feel a little crazy. 

Was honestly expecting him to come out like a bat out of hell this season, given him wanting more money and all. Teams have no qualms about targeting him and he’s not making them pay. 

[Two_pound]

Come on people, Moore hasn't hustled or played hard all season. Yes he's had a few outstanding individual solo tackles at various times, but the vast majority of his time on the field this season has been effortless. We need to bench him and put Flowers out there. Watching him this year compared to his previous seasons here is night and day.

[AKB]

Just now, Solid84 said:

Was honestly expecting him to come out like a bat out of hell this season, given him wanting more money and all. Teams have no qualms about targeting him and he’s not making them pay. 

remember the curtis samuel conversion vs Wash?

 

also if you look at the goal line play where Jacobs scores towards the end, Moore has an angle, (yes i know he has contain) and doesn't attempt to make a play on the runner. 

1 minute ago, Two_pound said:

Come on people, Moore hasn't hustled or played hard all season. Yes he's had a few outstanding individual solo tackles at various times, but the vast majority of his time on the field this season has been effortless. We need to bench him and put Flowers out there. Watching him this year compared to his previous seasons here is night and day.

thanks, glad im not the only one here that's tired of Kenny moore loafing. 

[Solid84]

3 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

remember the curtis samuel conversion vs Wash?

 

also if you look at the goal line play where Jacobs scores towards the end, Moore has an angle, (yes i know he has contain) and doesn't attempt to make a play on the runner. 

thanks, glad im not the only one here that's tired of Kenny moore loafing. 

Yup. He’s missed so many tackles and opportunities this season or just made bad plays in general. 
 

If Gus has made some mistakes this season it’s not benching Facyson and or Moore.