Should We Trade For Asante Samuel? [Merge]

[Gavin]

Fans like you just make me shake my head. Here's a guy who signed a contract, and the team had some expectation that he would fulfill his end of the contract. He's done exactly that, and was our lone pro bower last season. Yet he's greedy for getting paid what was agreed upon 6 years ago.

Sorry buddy, I don't buy it. I am all for Freeney reworking his deal if that is what he wants to do. But the reality is, he earned what he's getting. There is no reason he has to restructure. Further, this is the last year of his deal, so where exactly are they going to push the money? There are no future years to work with.

He's also not going to accept an extension until he knows how he fits into the new defense exactly. Perhaps this one year experiment will suck for him, and he'll prefer to get out and head to a 4-3 team and play end again. Perhaps he'll like it.

Again, I'd like it if they could get his number down, but by no means is it wrong for Freeney to take what is his. Make the team make a choice. If they want him to try the OLB in the 3-4, they'll pay him what he earned throughout his years of service here. If they want the space, they'll move him out and find someone else.

Problem is, Freeney is a major contributor in terms of the pass rush. He could have a serious impact on our defense even though he'll be in a brand new position. The team decided to change their defensive philosophy. It is up to them to determine whether to try to get Freeney on board, or move on.

Personally, I am quite happy that they are making it known that they want him with the new scheme. As far as his contract goes... well, any one of us goof balls can try to speculate all we want on the cap situation (the media included), but the reality is, the front office will have to get all of the contracts to work and fit under the cap. Dropping Freeney to bring more FAs that no one else wanted isn't going to turn our team around. And, quite frankly, I don't think there is a player out there (in FA) that can contribute to the level that Freeney has.

actually hes got a year left hes not fullfilled his contract (decisions like giving in to a players demands is one of the biggest reasons some teams go into cap room heck combine that with him playing linebacker for the first time at 19 or 14 million$ I believe its 19 total even if hes already got the 5 million. at 33 at the end of this upcoming season isnt worth it when we can draft one late in the draft or heres a thought, try one out that we picked up such as Jerrel Freeman he looked very good, could cover alot of field, was a sure tackler and can rush the passer good

[Jules]

How come he never found his way back to NE?

Those were the times I was most impressed by him. Must be that Hoodie magic or something.

[UKCOLT17]

hey are willing to take a 5th or 6th

[UKCOLT17]

Reports the

Philadelphia Eagles

"we're looking for a 3d or 4th rd pick for (Samuel) were wrong. They are willing to take a 5th or 6th,

[Jules]

Yes but then you have his contract......

[chad72]

hey are willing to take a 5th or 6th

Yep, Broncos are on it apparently.

[chad72]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82877807/article/report-eagles-willing-to-trade-samuel-for-5th-or-6th?module=HP11_headline_stack

[FightLikeSin]

Yep, Broncos are on it apparently.

Can't blame them...they are doing what they gotta do to win. Samuel and Bailey? Whew! glad we don't play the Broncos this year.

[ColtsPRIDE11]

"The Denver Post reported Thursday the Broncos have already offered a fifth- or sixth-round draft pick for Samuel, a deal the Eagles rejected."

Sounds like Denver got rejected once...

[chad72]

Can't blame them...they are doing what they gotta do to win. Samuel and Bailey? Whew! glad we don't play the Broncos this year.

And Tracy Porter too.

The joke is...Peyton is trying to get everyone he threw pick sixes to in the playoffs. :)

[chad72]

"The Denver Post reported Thursday the Broncos have already offered a fifth- or sixth-round draft pick for Samuel, a deal the Eagles rejected."

Sounds like Denver got rejected once...

Yeah. But if teams dont come calling because of his contract, Eagles will gladly take a 5th from a team that is able to get Samuel to re-structure, on draft day.

[FightLikeSin]

And Tracy Porter too.

The joke is...Peyton is trying to get everyone he threw pick sixes to in the playoffs. :)

exactly! they just need to pick up Cromartie and he'd have the whole gang together

[ColtsPRIDE11]

Yeah. But if teams dont come calling because of his contract, Eagles will gladly take a 5th from a team that is able to get Samuel to re-structure, on draft day.

True.

[mvbighead]

actually hes got a year left hes not fullfilled his contract (decisions like giving in to a players demands is one of the biggest reasons some teams go into cap room heck combine that with him playing linebacker for the first time at 19 or 14 million$ I believe its 19 total even if hes already got the 5 million. at 33 at the end of this upcoming season isnt worth it when we can draft one late in the draft or heres a thought, try one out that we picked up such as Jerrel Freeman he looked very good, could cover alot of field, was a sure tackler and can rush the passer good

I didn't mean it like that. He has fulfilled his end of the bargain. He's performed. He's wreaked havoc from his position, causing teams to focus on him, which opens up plays for everyone else.

Look, no one is going to be happy about 14 million dollar experiment. But the reality is, Dwight is a pass rusher. The reality is, Pagano intends to use a hybrid defense. The reality is, Dwight will likely play the position he's used to a good deal. He'll likely stand up, and still rush the passer. And, to a lesser extent, he'll drop back into coverage a time or two to give defenses something else to think about.

If Pagano is worth his salt, he'll look at Freeney's abilities, and put him in a position to succeed. That is what any good coach does. We've already seen what Freeney can do with little help around him (specifically in the middle of the line). It remains to be seen how he'll fair standing up, but given what he's shown in our lackluster defense, I am optimistic.

But, (and I'll say it one more time), the reality of this whole ordeal is Pagano will put Freeney in a position to succeed, and Freeney shouldn't have a problem doing that, based on past evidence.

And ignoring the upcoming draft, we've already made two upgrades in the center of the line in Redding and McKinney. I think it is safe to say these guys are upgrades over what we've had in the past, simply based on where they came from, and the roles they played there. To still have Mathis and Freeney on top of that is simply icing on the cake. Two big guys in the middle, and two athletes on the outside that'll do what they've always done. I don't get why people are so against this simply due to a contract.

[Gavin]

I didn't mean it like that. He has fulfilled his end of the bargain. He's performed. He's wreaked havoc from his position, causing teams to focus on him, which opens up plays for everyone else.

Look, no one is going to be happy about 14 million dollar experiment. But the reality is, Dwight is a pass rusher. The reality is, Pagano intends to use a hybrid defense. The reality is, Dwight will likely play the position he's used to a good deal. He'll likely stand up, and still rush the passer. And, to a lesser extent, he'll drop back into coverage a time or two to give defenses something else to think about.

If Pagano is worth his salt, he'll look at Freeney's abilities, and put him in a position to succeed. That is what any good coach does. We've already seen what Freeney can do with little help around him (specifically in the middle of the line). It remains to be seen how he'll fair standing up, but given what he's shown in our lackluster defense, I am optimistic.

But, (and I'll say it one more time), the reality of this whole ordeal is Pagano will put Freeney in a position to succeed, and Freeney shouldn't have a problem doing that, based on past evidence.

And ignoring the upcoming draft, we've already made two upgrades in the center of the line in Redding and McKinney. I think it is safe to say these guys are upgrades over what we've had in the past, simply based on where they came from, and the roles they played there. To still have Mathis and Freeney on top of that is simply icing on the cake. Two big guys in the middle, and two athletes on the outside that'll do what they've always done. I don't get why people are so against this simply due to a contract.

that all is true except if he has another 8.5 sacks again at 14 million which would be to much. Im not saying he will but he did last year, we are looking at the perfect time to move on and by doing so relieve alot of cap space, while I dont see anyone in the draft putting up is double digit consistent numbers, their are plenty that can put up 8.5 and that are younger. Im thinking on the business side

[mvbighead]

that all is true except if he has another 8.5 sacks again at 14 million which would be to much. Im not saying he will but he did last year, we are looking at the perfect time to move on and by doing so relieve alot of cap space, while I dont see anyone in the draft putting up is double digit consistent numbers, their are plenty that can put up 8.5 and that are younger. Im thinking on the business side

Thinking solely on the business side can be what gets teams in trouble. What good is cap space if you have nothing to use it on?

Also, think of these possibilities:

1) We keep Freeney at 14, but have 3 open roster spots to develop rookies/younger players.

2) We drop Freeney, and bring in 4 FAs to play under his salary. We have 3 less spots to hang on to our 10 draft selections.

3) We drop Freeney, and simply approach the draft with a bigger pocket book for next season.

In my opinion, if we need to build our roster, option 2 is out. We have enough guys to build a roster out of, and the draft will give us a bit more to work with. If we were to do as some suggest and bring in players with the money being paid to Freeney, we limit our options on who we can keep and experiment with. And, as the Steelers found out, sometimes it just takes time for a player to develop (Harrison).

Option 3 may be good, but what is the break even? If the Colts start the season 0-6, there is a good chance revenue numbers will continue to drop. Playing lesser players is going to mean more losses, it simply does. A college basketball team isn't going to beat the Lakers, or any pro team for that matter.

So, from the business side, you have to consider whether Freeney will make the impact he has in the past. I believe he can, and I believe it actually improves this year due to the coach we acquired and some of the players we've plucked. Our defense cannot get any worse than it was last year, so for me to expect improvement doesn't seem all that out of line.

[Gavin]

Thinking solely on the business side can be what gets teams in trouble. What good is cap space if you have nothing to use it on?

Also, think of these possibilities:

1) We keep Freeney at 14, but have 3 open roster spots to develop rookies/younger players.

2) We drop Freeney, and bring in 4 FAs to play under his salary. We have 3 less spots to hang on to our 10 draft selections.

3) We drop Freeney, and simply approach the draft with a bigger pocket book for next season.

In my opinion, if we need to build our roster, option 2 is out. We have enough guys to build a roster out of, and the draft will give us a bit more to work with. If we were to do as some suggest and bring in players with the money being paid to Freeney, we limit our options on who we can keep and experiment with. And, as the Steelers found out, sometimes it just takes time for a player to develop (Harrison).

Option 3 may be good, but what is the break even? If the Colts start the season 0-6, there is a good chance revenue numbers will continue to drop. Playing lesser players is going to mean more losses, it simply does. A college basketball team isn't going to beat the Lakers, or any pro team for that matter.

So, from the business side, you have to consider whether Freeney will make the impact he has in the past. I believe he can, and I believe it actually improves this year due to the coach we acquired and some of the players we've plucked. Our defense cannot get any worse than it was last year, so for me to expect improvement doesn't seem all that out of line.

were not expected to compete for a playoff spot

[Superman]

And like I've said all along, I would not be behind the team going after Samuel if the salary number remains high. If it drops significantly, absolutely. But at this time, I would have no problem going after a 30 year old corner for 1 or 2 million a season if he is better than what we have. If they could make a guy like that fit in the cap, I'd be for it.

I agree. We could have Goodman for less than Samuel, and keep our draft picks. I don't necessarily want Goodman either, or any of the other corners available. But I would rather go that route than give up a pick for Asante, and pay him $20 million over the next two years.

[chad72]

exactly! they just need to pick up Cromartie and he'd have the whole gang together

But Antonio Cromartie's pick six was called back at the half of the 2007 season chargers playoff game due to a holding call, remember?

So, officially, only Tracy Porter and Asante Samuel count.

[Rajput_20]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82877807/article/report-eagles-willing-to-trade-samuel-for-5th-or-6th?module=HP11_headline_stack

"Reports the

Philadelphia Eagles

"we're looking for a 3d or 4th rd pick for (Samuel) were wrong. They are willing to take a 5th or 6th,"

tweeted Jeff McLane

of the Philadelphia Inquirer."

Should the colts use their 5th or 6th Rounder to get him??

[bavanlan]

1) Can't afford him

2) Broncos offered a 5th or a 6th rounder and were turned down

3) Can't afford him

[WSO]

What bav said

[polk_high_allstar]

1.) We don't have a 6th we could use on him this year so it would have to be the 5th (136 overall).

2.) No cap space. Too much dead cap space and money tied up into Freeney.

[Gavin]

No his contract is to much for two years left and the bonuses

[Smonroe]

1) Can't afford him

2) Broncos offered a 5th or a 6th rounder and were turned down

3) Can't afford him

I'm surprised the Bronco's didn't want him. He was always one of Peyton's favorite receivers.

[WSO]

I'm surprised the Bronco's didn't want him. He was always one of Peyton's favorite receivers.

[dgambill]

I just don't see how that investment would pay off for us. He has a couple decent years left on a huge contract. Sure he would be our number 1 corner but we aren't going anywhere anytime soon. This guy fits in well with a veteren playoff caliber team....like Denver.

[dgambill]

What makes me ask is why is Denver interested in Samuel? They have Porter and Bailey. Philly is trading him because they can't get him on the field now..so why would Denver need to pay a third cb so much money. They have bigger needs. (DT/S)

[Jules]

But Antonio Cromartie's pick six was called back at the half of the 2007 season chargers playoff game due to a holding call, remember?

So, officially, only Tracy Porter and Asante Samuel count.

Ty Law will always own them all though.

Peyton fought the Law and the Law won.

[bahhummbug]

I just don't see how that investment would pay off for us. He has a couple decent years left on a huge contract. Sure he would be our number 1 corner but we aren't going anywhere anytime soon. This guy fits in well with a veteren playoff caliber team....like Denver.

Only take 2 things to happen drop Freeney and restructure Samuel believe i read he would play for 7 mill.For 7 mill and no Freeney id jump on it and sign Gaffney and an OG in Freeneys place IMO just saying

[ColtsPRIDE11]

I'm surprised the Bronco's didn't want him. He was always one of Peyton's favorite receivers.

The Broncos put in a request for him but got turned down. I expect to see them try again.

http://www.nfl.com/n..._headline_stack

"Reports the

Philadelphia Eagles

"we're looking for a 3d or 4th rd pick for (Samuel) were wrong. They are willing to take a 5th or 6th,"

tweeted Jeff McLane

of the Philadelphia Inquirer."

Should the colts use their 5th or 6th Rounder to get him??

BTW...there's already a thread about this titled Asante Samuel...just saying you might want to check there to see the discussion that's already happened on this subject.

[needanoline63]

He is a top 10 cornerback in the nfl. Def worth a 5th round pick. Just to much money. I dont like how grigson is satisfied with just Antonio Johnson and Brandon McKinney, we need another nose tackle

[Gavin]

Ty Law will always own them all though.

Peyton fought the Law and the Law won.

lol

[Coltswarriors]

I'd love to, especially for a 6th rounder... but we unfortunately can't pay for his contract. Won't happen.

[mvbighead]

were not expected to compete for a playoff spot

Who said anything about a playoff spot. I am talking about 4 or 5 wins. Going 2-14 again is going to hurt this franchise. Going 0-16 would be even worse.

[Gavin]

Who said anything about a playoff spot. I am talking about 4 or 5 wins. Going 2-14 again is going to hurt this franchise. Going 0-16 would be even worse.

exactly so keeping a guy at 32 to thats a 14 or 19 million dollar experiment at linebacker isnt a smart business decision, that is what I was getting at, bring a guy in that has actually played it before, I know you werent talking about a playoff spot

[mvbighead]

exactly so keeping a guy at 32 to thats a 14 or 19 million dollar experiment at linebacker isnt a smart business decision, that is what I was getting at, bring a guy in that has actually played it before, I know you werent talking about a playoff spot

My point is this. While Freeney may be an experiment at linebacker, he is someone that can help this team wins games now. To question that is to be uninformed. We need to have some semblance of a talented roster. If Luck gets to practice against the best, he'll be better prepared for the future. Freeney can give us a few good seasons. We still have Hughes and Mathis.

Also, why does everyone look at Freeney as though it's a negative, but cast a blind eye towards Mathis.

1) Neither has experience as OLB in the 3-4

2) Both are relatively the same age. (31/32)

3) Both are largely one dimensional pass rushers. (by scheme, not necessarily in terms of skillset)

4) Both have never dropped into coverage

5) Both are signed to very lucrative deals.

Yet somehow, we absolve Mathis and focus on 14 million. Why? What is the point? We just invested 15 million straight up for Mathis who has never played the position in the NFL. Somehow, that part is ok, but keeping Freeney around isn't?

Sorry, but if we field a competent defense, we give Luck more opportunities on offense. We give Luck the opportunity to win games for us. Further, we lost 7 games last year by less than 10 points. We won 2. Our defense should be vastly improved over years past based on philosophy alone. Our offense should be improved with Luck, who is a much better option than Orlovsky, Collins, and Painter, even as a rookie.

This team won't necessarily compete for a trophy next season, but there is no reason they can't, either. I don't expect them to win 10 games next season, but I don't think it is out of the question. So why not maintain some cornerstones and try to win more games than we lose next year. Excite the fans, give FAs another team to strongly consider as a contender in the coming years (next off season), boost interest, etc. etc.

I don't think competing is such a bad thing. And Freeney is one of many pieces who have helped us be competitive over the years. There is nothing left to spend the money, so why not him?

[bap1331]

its worth a shot for teams that have late round picks every round but not for us. Our picks are too valuable considering we have the first pick every round.

[chad72]

Former Eagles safety Quintin Mikell on Asante Samuel:

http://mobile.philly.com/blogs/?wss=/philly/blogs/dneagles/&id=148494075&viewAll=y#more

[Superman]

Yet somehow, we absolve Mathis and focus on 14 million. Why? What is the point? We just invested 15 million straight up for Mathis who has never played the position in the NFL. Somehow, that part is ok, but keeping Freeney around isn't?

Freeney's cap hit is unreasonable, given the state of the franchise. When you're up against the cap and you have an easily identifiable cap strangler, the player then becomes the boogey man. Not fair, or right, but it's the way it is. I, for one, am less concerned about his ability to fit in the new defense than I am with his cap hit.

Mathis' signing bonus isn't all against the cap in one season. And if you extend Freeney right now, you can save money against the cap this season, and you don't put yourself in position to pay him a signing bonus next season. The way it stands right now, they'll pay him $14 million this year, and then if they want to keep him, they'll have to pay another $14 million+ next season in signing bonus alone.

So if you believe with any reasonable degree of certainty that he fits into your vision for this defense (and Pagano certainly claims that he does), then why not save some money by extending him? I think it's common sense.

I don't agree with the idea that Freeney has done anything wrong. I think people should just be patient and see what happens around and after the draft.