Official 2022 Reese’s Senior Bowl Thread

[Archer]

On 2/6/2022 at 8:41 AM, stitches said:

 

 

He's one of the speedsters in the draft. He has 3 seasons with over 15 yards per reception for Memphis. I definitely wouldn't mind us drafting him. 

Austin’s the one I want.  We’re severely lacking in slot receiver skills for those 14 games per year that Parris is injured…

[stitches]

 

[MikeCurtis]

On 2/3/2022 at 8:18 PM, chad72 said:

 

Zappe is a great fit for Reich's system, he attacks the short and intermediate range so well and throws WRs open. His anticipation makes up for less than elite arm strength. He crosses off the hand size checklist too.  

I think a 3rd or 4th round pick would be an excellent pickup of Zappe

 

Worst case.... decent backup

 

Best case..... he starts in 2023

 

He needs some time to develop, but 62 touchdowns is a feat

 

 

[NorthernColt]

Jake Ferguson is the perfect Doyle replacement. Does everything well. Better redzone threat I'd say too. Coming form Wisconsin where they literally run like 80% of the time, he's got alot of experience blocking. Trusted inline TE.

 

Sidenote since there is no thread on the Shriners Bowl. But keep an eye on Emeka Emezie WR and Veredian Lowe LT for us. Sleepers imo.

[chad72]

25 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I think a 3rd or 4th round pick would be an excellent pickup of Zappe

 

Worst case.... decent backup

 

Best case..... he starts in 2023

 

He needs some time to develop, but 62 touchdowns is a feat

 

 

 

If you draft him in Round 3, Wentz will start throwing a fit like when Hurts was drafted. But then, on his second team, he would be in no position to dictate anything given his season ending performances. 

[MikeCurtis]

47 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

If you draft him in Round 3, Wentz will start throwing a fit like when Hurts was drafted. But then, on his second team, he would be in no position to dictate anything given his season ending performances. 

I dont know

 

If he acts like that, then you know you have the wrong team mate

 

I truly want Wentz to work out

 

But

 

Taking a very low risk shot on Zappe seems like a no brainer

 

He could get some snaps, and maybe HE is our QB of the future

 

Zappe seems to be a MUCH better prospect than our 4th round QB from Washington

 

 

 

 

[stitches]

54 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

If you draft him in Round 3, Wentz will start throwing a fit like when Hurts was drafted. But then, on his second team, he would be in no position to dictate anything given his season ending performances. 

At this point, I wouldn't make any decisions with mid-long term consequences for the team taking Wentz' presence on the team into serious consideration, because I don't consider him part of that mid-long term future of the team. If he throws a fit, this makes my decision to move on from him even easier. If he cannot handle competition from a mid-round pick, then what does that say about him? Unfortunately, this should have been a question Ballard and Reich asked themselves last year before acquiring him... but allas.. that's in the past now. 

[stitches]

1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

I think a 3rd or 4th round pick would be an excellent pickup of Zappe

 

Worst case.... decent backup

 

Best case..... he starts in 2023

 

He needs some time to develop, but 62 touchdowns is a feat

 

 

I'm not the biggest fan of taking flyers in the mid-rounds for QBs when you have a need for franchise QB. But it's better than doing nothing... at least it gives you a small chance that you will hit. But yeah... I don't see this as doing enough by our GM to address the QB position. 

 

IMO worst case is much worse than decent backup for players like Zappe. Worst case is he's yet another Anthony Gordon type, who has trouble sticking on a roster... and maybe flames out in a year or two. 

[Defjamz26]

On 2/8/2022 at 12:25 PM, stitches said:

I'm not the biggest fan of taking flyers in the mid-rounds for QBs when you have a need for franchise QB. But it's better than doing nothing... at least it gives you a small chance that you will hit. But yeah... I don't see this as doing enough by our GM to address the QB position. 

 

IMO worst case is much worse than decent backup for players like Zappe. Worst case is he's yet another Anthony Gordon type, who has trouble sticking on a roster... and maybe flames out in a year or two. 

I agree about Zappe. I think his hype is an overreaction to Carson Wentz being a QB who as Ballard said, “can’t hit the layups “

 

He’s the polar opposite as a guy who will hit all the layups but won’t ever pull from the three point line. Zappe reminds me of Jake Fromm. Another averages sized, below average arm strength QB who will get praised for being smart and safe with the football, but isn’t a needle mover. 
 

If we take a QB it at least needs to be someone with enticing traits. Willis, Ridder, or Pickett IMO.

[Defjamz26]

 

[DougDew]

How much better are these 6 foot tall QBs than Sam Ehlinger?

[MikeCurtis]

45 minutes ago, DougDew said:

How much better are these 6 foot tall QBs than Sam Ehlinger?

Different per person identified

 

Malick Willis is much faster and has a much stronger arm (IMHO)  

He needs 1-2 years to be ready for pro game though

 

I would MUCH rather have Willis than Ehlinger

[DougDew]

3 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

Different per person identified

 

Malick Willis is much faster and has a much stronger arm (IMHO)  

He needs 1-2 years to be ready for pro game though

 

I would MUCH rather have Willis than Ehlinger

I don't see any scouting report talk about how quickly these short QBs process information or how accurate they are.  A QB needs to show those two important skills in college or else they have a hard time making it in the pros, IMO.

 

Based upon strong arm and foot speed, I see some mocks taking Wills as high as pick #6.  LOL, when will they learn.

 

 

[ColtV]

On 2/8/2022 at 12:09 PM, MikeCurtis said:

I dont know

 

If he acts like that, then you know you have the wrong team mate

 

I truly want Wentz to work out

 

 

 

 

 

 

Same. The hope here is that second time around, you hope that Wentz gets that the NFL is a business and for individual players that means you produce or you get replaced. 

 

I'm not in favor of drafting a qb this year. Willis is my favorite but the Colts almost certainly will not be in a position to draft him. Drafting a qb even in the 3rd round means another inexperienced back-up and that hurt the Colts early last season. If the Colts find themselves after 2022 in need of drafting a new qb, then I would rather target 2023 which is expected to be a stronger draft for qb's. 

[MikeCurtis]

7 hours ago, DougDew said:

I don't see any scouting report talk about how quickly these short QBs process information or how accurate they are.  A QB needs to show those two important skills in college or else they have a hard time making it in the pros, IMO.

 

Based upon strong arm and foot speed, I see some mocks taking Wills as high as pick #6.  LOL, when will they learn.

 

 

The problem is there are 22-24 teams looking for the franchise type QB......  It makes for what turns out to be poor decisions, as teams take risks, again and again and bet the pot that they will win the "QB lottery"

 

IMHO Wentz is LESS of a risk than possibly all of the QBs coming out in the draft 

 

There are NO blue chip QB prospects..... 

 

Next year..... there MAY be 3 or 4,,,, easier to get to the top picks with some draft capitol (next years, and possibly future 1's)

 

This isnt the year to trade future draft capitol, not for a weak QB class

 

[MikeCurtis]

12 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

 

I bet Likely is there in round 3, if you believe the draft "gurus"

[Defjamz26]

9 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

I bet Likely is there in round 3, if you believe the draft "gurus"

That’s about where I have him coming off the board (hopefully to us). I see McBride going early 2nd round and then Ruckert going later in the round. Wydermyer and Otton go late 2nd and early 3rd.

[Yoshinator]

59 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

That’s about where I have him coming off the board (hopefully to us). I see McBride going early 2nd round and then Ruckert going later in the round. Wydermyer and Otton go late 2nd and early 3rd.

I think you are overrating these guys.

 

McBride could go anywhere from the late 1st to the mid-second IMO. Best case-scenario, he could be there for our 2nd round pick.

 

Ruckert will go round 3 or later IMO. Senior bowl by itself isn't going to raise him that much.

 

Wydermyer I agree, late 2nd or early 3rd is my guess. He could make it to us in the third as well though IMO.

 

Otton has helium, but I'm not going to say he rises that high. 3rd to 4th round IMO. Everyone always overrates guys like him, and then get surprised when they fall. I literally think he could easily be there on day 3 for us to take if we wanted him.

[MikeCurtis]

2 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

That’s about where I have him coming off the board (hopefully to us). I see McBride going early 2nd round and then Ruckert going later in the round. Wydermyer and Otton go late 2nd and early 3rd.

Its an enormous waste of my free time, but I find myself watching youtube on games for players that I think the Colts may be in the range of on rounds 2 or 3 (Mainly WR and TE this year, as I think that we should go that way) 

 

I watched a bit of Ruckert and was highly unimpressed. (I initially thought he was a good pick)

The guy whiffed many of his blocking assignments..... It was sad

 

To see this type of thing, you have to watch game tape, and not just highlight reels that make a player seem like a superstar

 

Wydermyer would be a great pickup in round 2. I doubt that guy makes it to round 3.  

 

He is 15 to 20 lbs bigger than most of the other TEs , and still has the speed... the guy is great reciever as well as has the size to play inline (Where they used him in college)

 

Most of the TEs in this draft are really just BIG slot guys...   Wydermyer could do both in line AND recieving threat

 

We will see at the combine

 

If I had to draft today, and one of the OTs didnt somehow slip,(Bernhard Raihmann) I would take Wydermyer at our pick in round 2

 

If Raihmann is still there, I think he might be able to start day 1 at LT.... you Pick HIM

 

In round 3, I would go for Likely at TE.....   Then trade back into 3 with 2 of our 4ths.... and get the best speed WR on the board

 

 

 

 

[Defjamz26]

4 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I think you are overrating these guys.

 

McBride could go anywhere from the late 1st to the mid-second IMO. Best case-scenario, he could be there for our 2nd round pick.

 

Ruckert will go round 3 or later IMO. Senior bowl by itself isn't going to raise him that much.

 

Wydermyer I agree, late 2nd or early 3rd is my guess. He could make it to us in the third as well though IMO.

 

Otton has helium, but I'm not going to say he rises that high. 3rd to 4th round IMO. Everyone always overrates guys like him, and then get surprised when they fall. I literally think he could easily be there on day 3 for us to take if we wanted him.

What I’ve seen in my draft analysis is that athletic TEs always get overdrafted. Everyone is always looking for the next Ertz, Kittle, Kelce, Andrews, etc… Right or wrong, it happens every year. Even if they don’t live up to their draft positions, it will keep happening.

 

Dont be shocked when by the time the Colts pick in round 3, 3-4 TEs have already come off the board. 

[Zoltan]

3 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

What I’ve seen in my draft analysis is that athletic TEs always get overdrafted. Everyone is always looking for the next Ertz, Kittle, Kelce, Andrews, etc… Right or wrong, it happens every year. Even if they don’t live up to their draft positions, it will keep happening.

 

Dont be shocked when by the time the Colts pick in round 3, 3-4 TEs have already come off the board. 

 

Yeah the patriots are a good example they drafted two TEs in the 2020 draft then the next year picked up Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith. Which seems to show they didn't like what they saw from the pair of them

[Defjamz26]

On 2/12/2022 at 3:44 PM, Zoltan said:

 

Yeah the patriots are a good example they drafted two TEs in the 2020 draft then the next year picked up Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith. Which seems to show they didn't like what they saw from the pair of them

Yeah it’s a position that’s easy to overdraft. Maybe I’ll start a series of topics on this but let’s look back on the 2019 NFL draft

 

T.J. Hockenson went 8th overall to the Lions

 

Noah Fant went 20th Overall to the Broncos

 

Irv Smith Jr., went Round 2 pick 50 to the Vikings

 

Drew Sample went around 2 pick 52 to the Bengals

 

Josh Oliver went round 3 pick 69 to the Jags

 

Jace Sternerger went round 3 pick 75 to the Packers

 

Kahale Warring went round 3 pick 96 to the Texans

 

That’s 7 TEs that all went in the first 3 rounds. It seems the league in general has an issue properly grading TEs. No position has more “sleepers” that shoot Io draft boards and get overdrafted than TEs. 
 

This year is an exception though as I think these guys are all pretty talented.

[NewColtsFan]

On 2/12/2022 at 8:43 AM, Defjamz26 said:

What I’ve seen in my draft analysis is that athletic TEs always get overdrafted. Everyone is always looking for the next Ertz, Kittle, Kelce, Andrews, etc… Right or wrong, it happens every year. Even if they don’t live up to their draft positions, it will keep happening.

 

Dont be shocked when by the time the Colts pick in round 3, 3-4 TEs have already come off the board. 

“Don't be shocked if 3-4 TEs have come off the board”.    
 

I won’t be shocked at all.    I think we could easily have 3-4 TEs taken by roughly pick 80. 
 

I think there will be some good TEs available to us in the 4th round. 

[Defjamz26]

4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

“Don't be shocked if 3-4 TEs have come off the board”.    
 

I won’t be shocked at all.    I think we could easily have 3-4 TEs taken by roughly pick 80. 
 

I think there will be some good TEs available to us in the 4th round. 

Yup. That’s why I’m not obsessed over the idea that we have to get a TE round round 2. I’m fine kicking the can to the 3rd or 4th round. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

Yup. That’s why I’m not obsessed over the idea that we have to get a TE round round 2. I’m fine kicking the can to the 3rd or 4th round. 

I guess it depends on what we’re looking for?

 

Are we looking for a dynamic play making TE?  That likely means Day 2.   But if we’re looking for more if a Jack Doyle type…. Someone to just moves the chains receiving and blowup the defense with key blocks, then I think we can find someone on Day 3, probably R4 to get the guy we want.

 

[Hawkeyecolt]

On 2/12/2022 at 6:07 AM, Jared Cisneros said:

I think you are overrating these guys.

 

McBride could go anywhere from the late 1st to the mid-second IMO. Best case-scenario, he could be there for our 2nd round pick.

 

Ruckert will go round 3 or later IMO. Senior bowl by itself isn't going to raise him that much.

 

Wydermyer I agree, late 2nd or early 3rd is my guess. He could make it to us in the third as well though IMO.

 

Otton has helium, but I'm not going to say he rises that high. 3rd to 4th round IMO. Everyone always overrates guys like him, and then get surprised when they fall. I literally think he could easily be there on day 3 for us to take if we wanted him.

The TE from UCLA had a nice senior bowl week.  Also Jelani Harris from Virginia was impressive at the East-West Shrine.  Marcus Brady was his coach too. 

[Defjamz26]

14 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I guess it depends on what we’re looking for?

 

Are we looking for a dynamic play making TE?  That likely means Day 2.   But if we’re looking for more if a Jack Doyle type…. Someone to just moves the chains receiving and blowup the defense with key blocks, then I think we can find someone on Day 3, probably R4 to get the guy we want.

 

There’s not a Kittle/Ertz/Kelce in this draft, but there’s guys that have potential to be as dynamic as the next tier of guys (Andrew’s, Waller, Gesicki, etc…)
 

But what you said is pretty much on point. If you want the guy who can be a legitimate playmaker (Mark Andrew’s, Darren Waller, Gesicki, etc…) your best bet is day 2 with guys like McBride, Ruckert, Likely, and Otton.

 

Day 3 you can get Jack Doyle and MAC replacements fairly easy (I’m telling you watch Jake Ferguson’s tape and you’ll see a Doyle clone).

 

Personally, I think it’s time for the Colts to kick it up a notch and try and go for the dynamic TE. If we have more pressing needs we need to spend early on (like LT and QB) then just go for the day 3 guy.

[NewColtsFan]

On 2/14/2022 at 1:17 PM, Defjamz26 said:

There’s not a Kittle/Ertz/Kelce in this draft, but there’s guys that have potential to be as dynamic as the next tier of guys (Andrew’s, Waller, Gesicki, etc…)
 

But what you said is pretty much on point. If you want the guy who can be a legitimate playmaker (Mark Andrew’s, Darren Waller, Gesicki, etc…) your best bet is day 2 with guys like McBride, Ruckert, Likely, and Otton.

 

Day 3 you can get Jack Doyle and MAC replacements fairly easy (I’m telling you watch Jake Ferguson’s tape and you’ll see a Doyle clone).

 

Personally, I think it’s time for the Colts to kick it up a notch and try and go for the dynamic TE. If we have more pressing needs we need to spend early on (like LT and QB) then just go for the day 3 guy.

Regarding Kittle, remember he was drafted in the 5th round.   We passed on him a number of times along with everyone else.   So someone this year who looks like a Day 3 pick may turn into a better than expected player as Kittle has done.   Often hard to see those coming…

[Defjamz26]

5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Regarding Kittle, remember he was drafted in the 5th round.   We passed on him a number of times along with everyone else.   So someone this year who looks like a Day 3 pick may turn into a better than expected player as Kittle has done.   Often hard to see those coming…

I think Kittle is the reason why you see so many TEs overdrafted now. The league is still kicking itself in the behind for that one. Ever since you’ve seen a jump in how high the TE’s are taken. Every guy who’s athletic and has some flashes goes day 2 now.

[Colt.45]

On 2/6/2022 at 5:38 AM, Defjamz26 said:

That’s pretty much how I see it. In A normal draft these are all guys you take in the 3rd or 4th round to develop. None of the guys have high ceilings besides Willis.

I think there're several with high ceilings.

 

For me, I agree with the obvious statement that this year's class has not got a Luck or Manning in it, no obvious 'no-brainer'; every guy in the top 6/7 comes with question marks i.e. will need development.

However, i am pretty convinced that this class will produce at least one guy who winds up like Russell, Dak, or Brady i.e. the scouts just whiffed. To me, there're too many guys with considerable upside for at least one not to be a franchise (even pro bowl) QB. Time will tell of course but I really like some of these guys, and i think it's a matter of going to the right place.

 

I think there are 2 to 4 guys in this class who i wouldn't mind having in Indy. They'd need to develop but might be ready to handle what's thrown at them right away. I think most NFL teams stay bad with drafting QBs because they expect saviors right away and most guys not named Andrew Luck need room to develop, and almost need a career ramp to grow into who they can be and the league can be deficient at providing that. There's a lot of money riding so teams make foolish decisions.

Take the example of last class. As soon as the draft was up, i said Mac Jones would be the best of the lot in that 1st season, and stood a great chance of being the best from the class even though he was picked 5th. Why? Situation. The guy landed in a place that would help him grow, limit expectations, and really teach him pro football. I think Indy can be that place for a few guys in the 22 class. I really do. Dak Prescott was another i called out back in the day, i thought he was a guy who just had shown NFL ability and needed the right circumstance. It's not an exact science at all, the best scouts whiff on QBs all the time so when they say a class is rich, or a class is poor at the position, i don't buy necessarily buy it. Can the guy make all the throws? Yes? Then tell me again why he isn't worth bringing in. 

 

[Colt.45]

On 2/11/2022 at 7:20 AM, DougDew said:

How much better are these 6 foot tall QBs than Sam Ehlinger?

 

@MikeCurtis gave the perfect answer. Depends on how you're judging better.

 

On 2/11/2022 at 12:02 PM, DougDew said:

I don't see any scouting report talk about how quickly these short QBs process information or how accurate they are.  A QB needs to show those two important skills in college or else they have a hard time making it in the pros, IMO.

 

Based upon strong arm and foot speed, I see some mocks taking Wills as high as pick #6.  LOL, when will they learn.

 

 

 

When you say short QBs. Got any names in particular? 

 

On Willis, he has a serious ceiling. He will also need a serious team with a serious plan for him, to unlock his full potential. I fear he will get drafted by one of these no-plan, no-ambition teams who'll expect him to be their Jesus Christ from day 1 and that'll be that for his career.

[DougDew]

36 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

@MikeCurtis gave the perfect answer. Depends on how you're judging better.

 

 

When you say short QBs. Got any names in particular? 

 

On Willis, he has a serious ceiling. He will also need a serious team with a serious plan for him, to unlock his full potential. I fear he will get drafted by one of these no-plan, no-ambition teams who'll expect him to be their Jesus Christ from day 1 and that'll be that for his career.

Since processing and throwing accuracy are the two most important attributes in an NFL QB, I would use those two attributes to define "better".  That's why I ask if any of these six foot tall QBs that are being talked about this year...or next year for that matter (the Heisman winner and Spencer Rattler as two examples)......are better than what we already have. 

 

Arm strength, allusivity, and foot speed are important, but to a lesser extent than processing and accuracy, and those are the main attributes I read these current draft prospects being talked about. 

[Colt.45]

5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Since processing and throwing accuracy are the two most important attributes in an NFL QB, I would use those two attributes to define "better".  That's why I ask if any of these six foot tall QBs that are being talked about this year...or next year for that matter (the Heisman winner and Spencer Rattler as two examples)......are better than what we already have. 

 

Arm strength, allusivity, and foot speed are important, but to a lesser extent than processing and accuracy, and those are the main attributes I read these current draft prospects being talked about. 

I think the attributes you highlight are fine and all but i think they cannot be isolated when you're judging a prospect. Which QB did you have in mind when you say six footer?

[DougDew]

31 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

I think the attributes you highlight are fine and all but i think they cannot be isolated when you're judging a prospect. Which QB did you have in mind when you say six footer?

I'm talking about the draft analysts write ups about the QBs.   They are incomplete (at least the ones I saw back when you quoted me...they may have been updated since then).  They speak of arm talent, athleticism, and foot speed not much insight into processing....other than saying "raw".  Some talk about accuracy or touch.  Willis, Zappe, Howell, not much about the mental aspect that I have read.

 

No QB write up stood out other than I read one analyst say that Carson Strong has good field vision and throws with anticipation, but he's not one of the six footers.  But I read a lot about his lack of mobility and his knee from others.

 

Overall, I read a lot of splashy stuff and not much substance, and was just curious how those short QBs matched up substance wise with Ehlinger.

 

And the mental part is extremely important for the Colts at this juncture, since decision making and accuracy seems to be the main problems with Wentz.  a 6 foot 5 Wentz is better than a 6 foot tall Wentz, so that's why I want to know how these six footers stack up mentally against Wentz....if they are any better at decision making.....and Sam.

[Colt.45]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

I'm talking about the draft analysts write ups about the QBs.   They are incomplete (at least the ones I saw back when you quoted me...they may have been updated since then).  They speak of arm talent, athleticism, and foot speed not much insight into processing....other than saying "raw".  Some talk about accuracy or touch.  Willis, Zappe, Howell, not much about the mental aspect that I have read.

 

No QB write up stood out other than I read one analyst say that Carson Strong has good field vision and throws with anticipation, but he's not one of the six footers.  But I read a lot about his lack of mobility and his knee from others.

 

Overall, I read a lot of splashy stuff and not much substance, and was just curious how those short QBs matched up substance wise with Ehlinger.

 

And the mental part is extremely important for the Colts at this juncture, since decision making and accuracy seems to be the main problems with Wentz.  a 6 foot 5 Wentz is better than a 6 foot tall Wentz, so that's why I want to know how these six footers stack up mentally against Wentz....if they are any better at decision making.....and Sam.

Gotcha. Well, i'll throw down a name.

 

Sam Howell. QB North Carolina. Hovers anywhere between 6 and 6'1 depending on who you talk to. 

Mentally he's supposedly really good. Concerned with football primarily, good leader, humble, calm, studious. Substance-wise, he's close to Ehlinger (maybe not quite to that level of maturity) and trumps Ehlinger when it comes to the physical side.

 

His decision making is decent though there were some plays were i wound up yelling at the screen because he'd take off running when maybe he could have sat in the pocket but i listened to his OC at NC say that the kid was just trying to do whatever it took to win. He lost a lot of weapons to the league, had O-line issues, and never complained. His accuracy is good enough in my opinion. He can access all three zones, though i do wonder if he puts too much mustard on the ball throwing short. Baseline he can make NFL throws.

 

Is he throwing with anticipation? Showed up on tape sometimes, and other times you could see him wait for the receiver to open up then trusting his arm. So hard to really tell.

 

As with the other guys in the class, he has many questions marks. Depending on where he lands, he could be Drew Brees or he could be Baker Mayfield as a ceiling. I won't talk of his  floor because i don't think it's fair to him and the others in the class. They've already been slandered enough  

He can play but I think he'd need a year to get up to NFL speed, and then see where he's at i.e. he's a guy who will need development. I don't think he can cope with the speed of the league right off the bat. I may be wrong and that's the joy of this, watching guys who can surprise you by handling more than you ever thought they could...guys like Russell Wilson who came in and were expected to be QB3.

 

He's the fourth guy on my list of four who i think could do well in Indy at the QB position. If you could get a QB who would perform like Baker has, would you take him? Can you win with that?  Does the kid have the grit and drive to be great? I think he's super competitive. The other stuff where he's lacking would be on us to teach him you know what i mean? He's not the finished article. Is there room to grow? I think there's some room to grow for him but of the 4 i mentioned, i think he's 3rd or 4th in terms of growth potential.

[Defjamz26]

7 hours ago, Colt.45 said:

I think there're several with high ceilings.

 

For me, I agree with the obvious statement that this year's class has not got a Luck or Manning in it, no obvious 'no-brainer'; every guy in the top 6/7 comes with question marks i.e. will need development.

However, i am pretty convinced that this class will produce at least one guy who winds up like Russell, Dak, or Brady i.e. the scouts just whiffed. To me, there're too many guys with considerable upside for at least one not to be a franchise (even pro bowl) QB. Time will tell of course but I really like some of these guys, and i think it's a matter of going to the right place.

 

I think there are 2 to 4 guys in this class who i wouldn't mind having in Indy. They'd need to develop but might be ready to handle what's thrown at them right away. I think most NFL teams stay bad with drafting QBs because they expect saviors right away and most guys not named Andrew Luck need room to develop, and almost need a career ramp to grow into who they can be and the league can be deficient at providing that. There's a lot of money riding so teams make foolish decisions.

Take the example of last class. As soon as the draft was up, i said Mac Jones would be the best of the lot in that 1st season, and stood a great chance of being the best from the class even though he was picked 5th. Why? Situation. The guy landed in a place that would help him grow, limit expectations, and really teach him pro football. I think Indy can be that place for a few guys in the 22 class. I really do. Dak Prescott was another i called out back in the day, i thought he was a guy who just had shown NFL ability and needed the right circumstance. It's not an exact science at all, the best scouts whiff on QBs all the time so when they say a class is rich, or a class is poor at the position, i don't buy necessarily buy it. Can the guy make all the throws? Yes? Then tell me again why he isn't worth bringing in. 

 

No I completely agree. Talent is great, but the reality is you’re not always going to get the most talented QB. Aside from arm strength, you think Joe Flacco was an elite QB? No, but his situation was great. Eli Manning is possibly the most underwhelming QB to ever win 2 rings. You can win in the league without a superstar at QB. The important thing is getting a guy with the right mental makeup and enough physical traits. You put the guy in the right environment and he can thrive.

 

When I look at this QB class I look at Ridder, Howell, and Willis as guys who could thrive here. Maybe Carson Strong too. Athletic ability and the arms to make every throw. Proven college production too. 

[Colt.45]

8 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

No I completely agree. Talent is great, but the reality is you’re not always going to get the most talented QB. Aside from arm strength, you think Joe Flacco was an elite QB? No, but his situation was great. Eli Manning is possibly the most underwhelming QB to ever win 2 rings. You can win in the league without a superstar at QB. The important thing is getting a guy with the right mental makeup and enough physical traits. You put the guy in the right environment and he can thrive.

 

When I look at this QB class I look at Ridder, Howell, and Willis as guys who could thrive here. Maybe Carson Strong too. Athletic ability and the arms to make every throw. Proven college production too. 

Nailed it. That's exactly how I see this class. We have to be totally honest with ourselves the whole way. We have to be honest about our immediate future, about the objectives for the guy we draft, about setting up a realistic growth plan for him, and about what our growth metrics are. If he doesnt meet those metrics, we have to be willing to cut bait and move on.

 

The joy of this whole thing is IF you have a guy with enough upside, 3 years down the line, he could be taking jumps in growth that you never anticipated. Tom Brady didnt start off being the Brady many came to know and fear...hell for his first three championships, you could argue he was along for the ride. The thing is he kept growing as a player and a man, he never stopped adding layers to his game. He's the picture perfect story of how things can work out when situations are aligned. Teams can absolutely win with game managers who accept what they are and who are fiercely competitive and look to add to their game (and importantly have the ROOM to grow). You spoke of Eli and Flacco and the truth is no team goes into the draft looking for the next Eli or Flacco but sometimes that's who you get and you can win with that.

 

I like the names you mentioned and there are a few others i'm still doing some work on. I'd throw in Eleby from W Michigan, still doing my due diligence on him, and i think he would need more dev time than the four you mentioned but he has shown some things that lead me to think he may have not even scratched the surface of his ability. There're guys available, it's just a matter of knowing what those guys are, and understanding that you need to give them the path to grow and having that path properly defined. And yes, having a ton of patience. Unfortunately most teams who need QBs don't have the luxury of patience and so many guys come in and the expectation is cranked up to 100 from day 1 and they're barely doing any real growing, and before you know it, you've been in the league 3 years and not really been a factor, and if your franchise is a bad one without a gameplay, you're toast. Flacco and Eli were lucky, they were in franchises who loaded up on the whole team and didnt just rely on the QB to be magical....didnt turn out too well when those QBs had to carry the load.

 

Anyway, all that to say there are guys available. We need a guy. We should absolutely be looking to grab one of them.

 

 

 

 

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, Colt.45 said:

Gotcha. Well, i'll throw down a name.

 

Sam Howell. QB North Carolina. Hovers anywhere between 6 and 6'1 depending on who you talk to. 

Mentally he's supposedly really good. Concerned with football primarily, good leader, humble, calm, studious. Substance-wise, he's close to Ehlinger (maybe not quite to that level of maturity) and trumps Ehlinger when it comes to the physical side.

 

His decision making is decent though there were some plays were i wound up yelling at the screen because he'd take off running when maybe he could have sat in the pocket but i listened to his OC at NC say that the kid was just trying to do whatever it took to win. He lost a lot of weapons to the league, had O-line issues, and never complained. His accuracy is good enough in my opinion. He can access all three zones, though i do wonder if he puts too much mustard on the ball throwing short. Baseline he can make NFL throws.

 

Is he throwing with anticipation? Showed up on tape sometimes, and other times you could see him wait for the receiver to open up then trusting his arm. So hard to really tell.

 

As with the other guys in the class, he has many questions marks. Depending on where he lands, he could be Drew Brees or he could be Baker Mayfield as a ceiling. I won't talk of his  floor because i don't think it's fair to him and the others in the class. They've already been slandered enough  

He can play but I think he'd need a year to get up to NFL speed, and then see where he's at i.e. he's a guy who will need development. I don't think he can cope with the speed of the league right off the bat. I may be wrong and that's the joy of this, watching guys who can surprise you by handling more than you ever thought they could...guys like Russell Wilson who came in and were expected to be QB3.

 

He's the fourth guy on my list of four who i think could do well in Indy at the QB position. If you could get a QB who would perform like Baker has, would you take him? Can you win with that?  Does the kid have the grit and drive to be great? I think he's super competitive. The other stuff where he's lacking would be on us to teach him you know what i mean? He's not the finished article. Is there room to grow? I think there's some room to grow for him but of the 4 i mentioned, i think he's 3rd or 4th in terms of growth potential.

So you're a Howell fan?  I have not looked into the college QB situation draft wise.  I trust the experts who say that there is no franchise QB, so I wonder how much better any of them are over what we already have.

 

Taking off running instead of staying in the pocket is just college immaturity.  He could have plenty of mental attributes that emerge and grow after a few seasons.

 

I'm still a fan of the Mac Jones style of pocket passer.  If the QB gets into trouble, throw it a way, and live to throw the next play.  Bad things happen when a QB tries to extend the play.  Present day splash plays an exception, not the rule, IMO.  And the Mahomes situation tells us that when the oline can't block and the receivers don't get open, escapability doesn't really protect a lot. JMO

 

Carson Strong is an inch and a half taller than Jones and has a stronger arm, so I favor him over all of the QBs I've read about.

[Colt.45]

12 minutes ago, DougDew said:

So you're a Howell fan?  I have not looked into the college QB situation draft wise.  I trust the experts who say that there is no franchise QB, so I wonder how much better any of them are over what we already have.

 

Taking off running instead of staying in the pocket is just college immaturity.  He could have plenty of mental attributes that emerge and grow after a few seasons.

 

I'm still a fan of the Mac Jones style of pocket passer.  If the QB gets into trouble, throw it a way, and live to throw the next play.  Bad things happen when a QB tries to extend the play.  Present day splash plays an exception, not the rule, IMO.  And the Mahomes situation tells us that when the oline can't block and the receivers don't get open, escapability doesn't really protect a lot. JMO

 

Carson Strong is an inch and a half taller than Jones and has a stronger arm, so I favor him over all of the QBs I've read about.

I wouldn't use the word 'fan' to describe how i feel about Howell. I think he's a guy you can win with if you accept who he is, and build appropriately.

 

Is he better today than Carson Wentz? That's a trick question  Wentz is a guy who's been in the league for a bit and who was once a solid MVP candidate, and the fact is for most rookies the speed of the NFL is a real issue. Even Andrew Luck dealt with that and he was successful from day 1. So no, i don't think Howell is a plug and play candidate but i think he's the kind of guy who could be a pleasant surprise.

 

 

[NorthernColt]

Personally I'm not a fan of Strong at all. I don't like his tape at all. Didn't like his on field work at the combine.

 

One of the guys I was lowest on, would now actually be  my preferred QB (not being Corral, Willis or Pickett as they'll be gone), but its Ridder. I do think he could be an absolute bust, but I think he could be a stud. I love his demeanor, was a captain, led Cinci to the final 4, crazy college record. Has the size and mobility. Tested great and interviewed really well apparently. He'll likely need a redshirt year behind a vet, but I'd be ok with that.