Training Camp Day 16 (8/18)

[krunk]

3 minutes ago, compuls1v3 said:

They were saying Mack was dancing around, which I agree.  He wasn't hitting the hole running.  Probably just needs to shake off some rust.

The only time he danced there wasnt anywhere to go on that run anyway. He tried to make something out of nothing

[richard pallo]

35 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Eason had one also and got the first down.

Kevin also said that Rock had another good day today.  I have read a number of reports that he has been looking very good. Hopefully this is the year he takes the No 2 CB position.

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[Nickster]

3 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I said similar, I didn't say exact. If Eason was as mobile, we wouldn't of got him in the 4th round. Eason does have the same-type arm strength though, and that natural leadership and drive that a Josh Allen has. He's a more raw Josh Allen, but I think he's on pace to improve in an upward motion and continue to get better. I already think he has higher potential than Wentz, even though Wentz is better right now.

 

The gap between him and Wentz isn't that far off. I truly believe Eason has a decent shot of being our future QB1 if he continues this uptrend.

No one ever has had the type of arm strength Eason has.  I think that is what someone said about his combine numbers.  

 

None of the criticism of Eason's ability to help us be competitive the first game or two should Wentz not be ready has anything remotely to do with his arm strength.

[compuls1v3]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

The only time he danced there wasnt anywhere to go on that run anyway. He tried to make something out of nothing

Well, I must have been watching something else, because I saw him not running straight ahead, whereas Wilkins was running straight ahead on most plays.  I could be wrong though.

[JediXMan]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

The only time he danced there wasnt anywhere to go on that run anyway. He tried to make something out of nothing

He seemed really good out there Colts are loaded at RB.

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

In my case, I pegged Mahomes and Josh Allen as the best QBs of their respective draft classes before the drafts happened. I know that if a QB has two of arm strength, accuracy, and/or athleticism, he will succeed in the NFL.

 

Mahomes and Allen both had arm strength and athleticism and got better with accuracy. Eason has the arm strength and accuracy down already in his 2nd year as a 4th rounder. He is set up to succeed if he gets a legit chance.

 

 

 

Well you were right about Mahomes and Allen, but I'll bet you a Peanut Buster Parfait, that  you are wrong about Eason.

 

He's too slow reading.  Just like Jacoby.  He will never be a good starter in this league IMO.  

[shasta519]

22 minutes ago, Lawrence Owen said:

I like that Jordan Wilkins played well today.

It's a shame he is buried so deep on this RB Stable.

I think he'd get a lot more reps on another team.

 

Apparently Eason didn't just have a great 60 yarders to our 5th string TE today, but also had a great deep pass dropped by Strachan.

 

Strachan has tools, and flashes a lot.  But also has a lot of drops. But he's young, so he just needs time (I hope)

 

That's a reasonable take about Strachan. I get the hype about him, given the tools he has. But of course he flashes and can high-point a ball. He is 6'5" with an 85" wingspan and there is plenty of tape of him doing exactly that in college. If he couldn't do that, he wouldn't have gotten drafted.

 

At the game on Sunday, he had two catches on 4 targets for 25 yards with two drops (or at least balls he should have caught) heading into that 2-minute drill. And then he made that nice catch on 32-yarder to start the 2:00 drill. 

 

It seemed like more of what you are talking about, though I did actually get to see him run routes. I assume you see the same thing at practice (if you are there). 

[krunk]

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

 

Well you were right about Mahomes and Allen, but I'll be you a Peanut Buster Parfait, that  you are wrong about Allen.

 

He's too slow reading.  Just like Jacoby.  He will never be a good starter in this league IMO.  

Allen was not an impressive passer his first year or so in the league. He was just like Eason. I know Polian wasnt all that fond of him. Guys do improve you know

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, Shafty138 said:

I'd wager that "most of us" on these forums have no memory of the Jeff George years.... a few maybe, but I'd guess most here don't even remember the Harbaugh era..... 

Hmm.  I thought it was mostly Oldsters here.  That's funny.  I thought the majority on here would remember the George and Harbaugh years.

 

[DougDew]

6 minutes ago, Nickster said:

No one ever has had the type of arm strength Eason has.  I think that is what someone said about his combine numbers.  

 

None of the criticism of Eason's ability to help us be competitive the first game or two should Wentz not be ready has anything remotely to do with his arm strength.

Eason threw 59mph.  Only a few have topped that since 2008, with Josh Allen blowing away the field at 62mph.

 

https://www.ourlads.com/story/default/Quarterback-Ball-Velocity-at-NFL-Combine-2008-2017/10243/dh/

 

[The Fish]

1 hour ago, Colt.45 said:

Okay, so you think the coaches are giving Ehlinger more chances even though you're sure Ehlinger is worse. And you think that's happening because the coaches dont want to upset Carson Wentz. Does that summarize your point accurately?

Sorta, but not really. I think I've made my point about this more than once. And yeah, I think Eason is substantially further along than Ehlinger - but I could be wrong (doubt it though).

It's not about "upset" or feelings or whatever Eagle fan are carrying on about when talking Wentz/Foles (though it's not impossible that stuff comes to pass later on). Showing deference to Wentz's status as the starter as far as I'm concerned doesn't factor into the coaches thinking for week 2 of preseason snaps all that much. The brass wants competition and letting Ehlinger start is a way of judging things as accurately as they know, while being fair. 

[krunk]

6 minutes ago, compuls1v3 said:

Well, I must have been watching something else, because I saw him not running straight ahead, whereas Wilkins was running straight ahead on most plays.  I could be wrong though.

He only had about 2 maybe 3 runs. He certainly looked like Mack on that run they called back. I cant recall if that was him or Wilkins when the back was tackled in the backfield for a loss on the blitz.

[compuls1v3]

Just now, krunk said:

He only had about 2 maybe 3 runs. He certainly looked like Mack on that run they called back. I cant recall if that was him or Wilkins when the back was tackled in the backfield for a loss on the blitz.

Thanks.  It might be that I saw Wilkins had more runs, so a bigger sample size.  Regardless, I'm happy of our RB stable as well.  We have some good looking RBs.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

After watching Easons presser my gut still says we would of been fine with him had we not gotten Wentz. In two or three years things are going to be interesting. 

 

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, Shive said:

Keep in mind that this was against our OTs that looked atrocious on Sunday.

That's the thing about Paye.  I went to one of the 1st week camp days and saw that our LT situation is currently pretty ugly.

 

It's hard to see how good Paye is doing because everyone looks All Pro v. Tevi.  Paye didn't get to play or practice at all v. Carolina, so we should get to see a little more this weekend.

 

I am hopeful Paye is going to be a better pass rusher this year than I thought he would be, but I am not going to get over excited about him using our LTs because everyone else on the team has too.

[Hark]

1 hour ago, John Hammonds said:

C'mon, folks.  You gotta give everybody reps.  This isn't just about sorting out who's the starter and who's the backup.

Scenario:  Wentz is unable to start game 1 vs Seahawks.  Eason starts the game, and gets injured in the second quarter.  Ehlinger is forced to play, however, we decided early in camp that he wasn't going to be the backup, so we didn't give him any reps.  And he has to play.  Crippled by no reps.

You gotta give everybody reps, so everybody is prepared to play.

This is an absolutely reasonable take... What are you thinking?!?!?!? We will have not of that here.

[shasta519]

2 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Well you were right about Mahomes and Allen, but I'll bet you a Peanut Buster Parfait, that  you are wrong about Eason.

 

He's too slow reading.  Just like Jacoby.  He will never be a good starter in this league IMO.  

 

I won't say he's too slow at reading, but I will say that we haven't seen him even do it yet. And I think that's going to play a huge factor in whether he is a good starter in the NFL. Because he's certainly not going to get faster at moving, which is such a disadvantage. 

 

I see a lot of similarities with JB as well, except at least we knew JB was decent at evading pressure. That's another unknown from Eason.

 

I just went through the JB hype and that not so great overall experience only two years ago. I just think Colts QB is synonymous with hype. Let's at least see him vs. a real NFL defense.

[Myles]

 

12 minutes ago, krunk said:

Allen was not an impressive passer his first year or so in the league. He was just like Eason. I know Polian wasnt all that fond of him. Guys do improve you know

Good point.   In Allen's first 2 years his number were:

56% completions

30TD and 21 INT

3.7 TD%

2.9 INT %

76.6 rating

 

Then in his third year:

 

69.2% completions

37TD and 10 INT

6.5 TD%

2.3 INT %

107.2 rating

[shasta519]

10 minutes ago, krunk said:

He only had about 2 maybe 3 runs. He certainly looked like Mack on that run they called back. I cant recall if that was him or Wilkins when the back was tackled in the backfield for a loss on the blitz.

 

Wilkins was the one who got lit up in the backfield. He didn't have a great game. Lemay might make for an interesting competition at RB4. TBH, it might be best for Wilkins to get a shot somewhere else.

[The Fish]

7 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

After watching Easons presser my gut still says we would of been fine with him had we not gotten Wentz. In two or three years things are going to be interesting. 

 

If Eason is the guy. It's not going to take 3 years to get to that... It'll happen next year- if it comes to pass.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, The Fish said:

If Eason is the guy. It's not going to take 3 years to get to that... It'll happen next year- if it comes to pass.

We are married to Carson for at least 2 years. But at the end of that we don’t know if he will keep getting injured or what’s going to happen. If they feel Eason is ready and Carson isn’t living up to expectations then things get interesting. Other then that I don’t think Carson’s job is in any danger. 

[Nickster]

1 minute ago, shasta519 said:

 

I won't say he's too slow at reading, but I will say that we haven't seen him even do it yet. And I think that's going to play a huge factor in whether he is a good starter in the NFL. Because he's certainly not going to get faster at moving, which is such a disadvantage. 

 

I see a lot of similarities with JB as well, except at least we knew JB was decent at evading pressure. That's another unknown from Eason.

 

I just went through the JB hype and that not so great overall experience only two years ago. I just think Colts QB is synonymous with hype. Let's at least see him vs. a real NFL defense.

 

I just think he will prove to be a tic to slow and a tic is an eternity in the pocket.

 

I don't know if people remember the sack he took by the RDE, but it was pretty telling IMO.  He's slow to check down.  That is the death knell in the league.  The RDE is right in his line of sight, he had a number of options, and he chose just to eat it because he didn't recognize the check down quickly enough.  When I saw him in training, it was pretty evident.  

Just the fact that SE has taken any 1st team reps speaks to it.  There is rumor that insiders don't have any faith in Eason's ability to speed up his mental game.

 

There are reasons why this guy with ALL Universe arm talent is in competition for backup QB with a 7th round pick.    Sometimes everyone gets it wrong ie. Brady, to a lesser extent Dak, but I don't think everyone is wrong on Eason.

 

I will be happy to say I misjudged him but I am pretty confident that I haven't .  There are a lot more guys like him than fans realize. Lots of guys can throw.  Arm talent is just the pre req.  It's not the straw that stirs the drink. 

[jvan1973]

5 minutes ago, The Fish said:

If Eason is the guy. It's not going to take 3 years to get to that... It'll happen next year- if it comes to pass.

Wentz has a 20 million dollar dead cap hit next year.   He will still be the qb in 22

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

22 minutes ago, krunk said:

Allen was not an impressive passer his first year or so in the league. He was just like Eason. I know Polian wasnt all that fond of him. Guys do improve you know

Eason’s completion % has been better then Sams. He struggled that first week but his accuracy has been really good lately. 

[Jackie Daytona]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Wentz has a 20 million dollar dead cap hit next year.   He will still be the qb in 22

You're right, but eating dead cash on the QB position by the tens of millions isn't exactly anathema to the Colts organization...lol

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

I just think he will prove to be a tic to slow and a tic is an eternity in the pocket.

 

I don't know if people remember the sack he took by the RDE, but it was pretty telling IMO.  He's slow to check down.  That is the death knell in the league.  The RDE is right in his line of sight, he had a number of options, and he chose just to eat it because he didn't recognize the check down quickly enough.  When I saw him in training, it was pretty evident.  

Just the fact that SE has taken any 1st team reps speaks to it.  There is rumor that insiders don't have any faith in Eason's ability to speed up his mental game.

 

There are reasons why this guy with ALL Universe arm talent is in competition for backup QB with a 7th round pick.    Sometimes everyone gets it wrong ie. Brady, to a lesser extent Dak, but I don't think everyone is wrong on Eason.

 

I will be happy to say I misjudged him but I am pretty confident that I haven't .  There are a lot more guys like him than fans realize. Lots of guys can throw.  Arm talent is just the pre req.  It's not the straw that stirs the drink. 

That was his first game in two years and his first NFL game.  His awareness of NFL speed can't improve?  And I remember Luck never checking down and looking down field a lot.  This stuff can be learned in time.  He may always have some issues here, but experience can learn to limit those setbacks.

 

 

[The Fish]

5 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Wentz has a 20 million dollar dead cap hit next year.   He will still be the qb in 22

I don't recall the details, but a Bowen podcast awhile back made a compelling case that if the Colts move on from Wentz it happens after this year. 

[jvan1973]

Just now, The Fish said:

I don't recall the details, but a Bowen podcast awhile back made a compelling case that if the Colts move on from Wentz it happens after this year. 

I don't see that.    20 million dead cap next year.   Zero dead cap in the following years

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Some * on the radio just said we should keep Sam and put him on special teams.

[ManningGM]

12 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

I just think he will prove to be a tic to slow and a tic is an eternity in the pocket.

 

I don't know if people remember the sack he took by the RDE, but it was pretty telling IMO.  He's slow to check down.  That is the death knell in the league.  The RDE is right in his line of sight, he had a number of options, and he chose just to eat it because he didn't recognize the check down quickly enough.  When I saw him in training, it was pretty evident.  

Just the fact that SE has taken any 1st team reps speaks to it.  There is rumor that insiders don't have any faith in Eason's ability to speed up his mental game.

 

There are reasons why this guy with ALL Universe arm talent is in competition for backup QB with a 7th round pick.    Sometimes everyone gets it wrong ie. Brady, to a lesser extent Dak, but I don't think everyone is wrong on Eason.

 

I will be happy to say I misjudged him but I am pretty confident that I haven't .  There are a lot more guys like him than fans realize. Lots of guys can throw.  Arm talent is just the pre req.  It's not the straw that stirs the drink. 

For his first in-game action in 2 years, I was expecting a whole lot more mistakes on his end. He played considerably well given the circumstances dealt so far. Seems to me he’s made a point in recognizing what he needs to improve on (stepping up, pocket presence, getting the ball out quicker) and there’s always room for improvement. I had my worries he didn’t soak up knowledge from Rivers last season, and today I see he’s been diving into Philip’s film for studies. That’s super promising.
 

The two-minute drive he had looked very professional, decisive, and gives me hope on what he can become if this trend in progress continues upwards.

[The Fish]

8 minutes ago, Nickster said:

There are a lot more guys like him than fans realize. Lots of guys can throw.  Arm talent is just the pre req.  It's not the straw that stirs the drink. 

 

Don't agree here. There's not just a bunch of 60mph throwing QB's sitting around.

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

I don't see that.    20 million dead cap next year.   Zero dead cap in the following years

Yes….  You are correct.   If Bowen said that, it’s a mis-speak.   It’s a two-year marriage with the guarantees.   We can make it 3-4 years or longer if Wentz performs well. 

[The Fish]

3 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

I don't see that.    20 million dead cap next year.   Zero dead cap in the following years

They paid Jacoby that much to be a backup. If the team want's to move on, I'm guessing they will. 

[shasta519]

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

 

I just think he will prove to be a tic to slow and a tic is an eternity in the pocket.

 

I don't know if people remember the sack he took by the RDE, but it was pretty telling IMO.  He's slow to check down.  That is the death knell in the league.  The RDE is right in his line of sight, he had a number of options, and he chose just to eat it because he didn't recognize the check down quickly enough.  When I saw him in training, it was pretty evident.  

Just the fact that SE has taken any 1st team reps speaks to it.  There is rumor that insiders don't have any faith in Eason's ability to speed up his mental game.

 

There are reasons why this guy with ALL Universe arm talent is in competition for backup QB with a 7th round pick.    Sometimes everyone gets it wrong ie. Brady, to a lesser extent Dak, but I don't think everyone is wrong on Eason.

 

I will be happy to say I misjudged him but I am pretty confident that I haven't .  There are a lot more guys like him than fans realize. Lots of guys can throw.  Arm talent is just the pre req.  It's not the straw that stirs the drink. 

 

I have to agree. I think the sack fumble, while not entirely his fault, was another example of pocket awareness and processing.

 

Rivers was top 6 in passing efficiency last year as a pocket passer, but Rivers is one of the smartest QBs ever.

 

And people still complained about how Rivers limited the offense because he had to always be in shotgun and wasn't mobile. And if you watched the game on Sunday, Eason was primarily in shotgun the whole time. And when he was under center, it was very often a predictable run that didn't work. Nobody has even talked about the lack of a run game on Sunday.

 

So seeing the hype for Eason, who is also a pocket passer, is interesting to me after last season. I think people really underrate what it takes to be one of those in today's NFL, where everyone is really really fast.

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, The Fish said:

They paid Jacoby that much to be a backup. If the team want's to move on, I'm guessing they will. 

No,   they paid him 30 million over 2 seasons to be the starter.   He wasn't very good.    So he then became the backup.   Carson would have to be absolutely terrible to not be the qb next year

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

It’s kind of weird wanting Wentz back for game one but wanting to see more of Eason. 

[NewColtsFan]

Just now, The Fish said:

They paid Jacoby that much to be a backup. If the team want's to move on, I'm guessing they will. 

They paid Jacoby that and still had 50-60 million in unspent money.   We could afford to do that.  Those days are over. 
 

With the Leonard, Smith, Nelson contracts plus more young players to come, we can’t eat a $20 million dollar contract.   The roster is maturing financially speaking.   
 

For better or worse, this is a two-year marriage with Wentz.  

[The Fish]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

No,   they paid him 30 million over 2 seasons to be the starter.   He wasn't very good.    So he then became the backup.   Carson would have to be absolutely terrible to not be the qb next year

That's even worse! 

Because the Colts roll over so much cap and hypothetically would be moving to a starter on a rookie contract, it wouldn't be impossible, even if it'd make some cringe. Just my take. 

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

They paid Jacoby that and still had 50-60 million in unspent money.   We could afford to do that.  Those days are over. 
 

With the Leonard, Smith, Nelson contracts plus more young players to come, we can’t eat a $20 million dollar contract.   The roster is maturing financially speaking.   
 

For better or worse, this is a two-year marriage with Wentz.  

TY is making 10 for one season as an example of what 20 really is when the team is up against the cap- they're not yet.

[Myles]

25 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Wilkins was the one who got lit up in the backfield. He didn't have a great game. Lemay might make for an interesting competition at RB4. TBH, it might be best for Wilkins to get a shot somewhere else.

I agree, but it'd be better for the Colts if he stays.   Actually, since he is a free agent after this season, it may be good if he runs behind the Colts line this season before hitting the market.