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2020 3Q PFF Grades

EastStreet

By EastStreet
in Colts Football

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EastStreet

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Note -  (last year)

>75 = Blue

<45 = Red


Rivers  
-PFF - 77.8 (74.3)
-QBR - 62.9 (50.5)
-YPG - 11th
-Comp% - 11th
-INT% (best/8gm min) - 11th (better than Brady, -Wilson+)
-Y/A - 12th
-ANY/A - 10th
-Note - consistent trend up since WK5

 

RBs
Taylor - 74.8 (NA)
-Leads teams in RB Ys, RB YPC, overall Catch %
Hines - 76.8 (63.3)
Wilkins - 67.3 (69.8)

 

TEs
MAC - 82.6 (67.3)
-Highest O graded Colts, rated 3rd TE in the NFL
Doyle - 58.0 (69.2)
Burton - 72.3 (49.2)

 

WRs
Hilton - 73.6 (75.1)
-Leads team in receving 
Pittman - 60.0 (NA)
Pascal - 61.0 (73.7)
Johnson - 63.4 (59.8)
Dulin - 65.0 (NA)
Harris - 76.5 (NA)
Fountain - 61.1 (NA)
Campbell - 72.8 (54.7)

 

OL
Castonzo - 73.5 (81.3)
Nelson - 76.9 (91.2)

-#3 OG in the NFL in pass block win rate, 

-#2 OG in the NFL in run block win rate

Kelly - 72.5 (73.0)

-#10 C in the NFL in pass block win rate
Glowinski - 67.1 (60.5)
Smith - 81.0 (79.8)
Clark - 49.1 (NA)
Green - 59.0 (NA)
Pinter - 57.8 (NA)

 

DL
Autry - 55.6 (71.0)
-leads team in TFLs, and 2nd in sacks
Houston - 64.4 (87.1)
-leads team in sacks
Buckner - 89.6 (78.8)
-leads team in QBKDs and pressures
-Highest graded Colt
Stewart - 65.1 (65.8)
AQM - 62.2 (66.2)
Lewis - 66.2 (46.1)
Stallworth - 43.6 (65.5)
Turay - 65.1 (91.3)
Banogu - 40.7 (49.0)

 

LB
Leonard - 69.7 (78.7)
Walker - 48.3 (61.0)
Okereke - 40.5 (78.4)
Franklin - 70.2 (61.3)
Speed - 60.0 (69.4)

 

DBs
Rhodes - 79.2 (46.4)
-leads team in lowest completion %
Ya-Sin - 40.5 (65.3)
Moore - 70.1 (75.5)
-leads team in INTs
Carrie - 75.4 (56.2)
Blackmon - 66.2 (NA)
Willis - 68.0 (69.5)
Wilson - 61.5 (71.9)
Rodgers - 64.1 (NA)
Odum - 28.9 (67.3)
Smith - 64.3 (NA)
 

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EastStreet

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7 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

PFF grades are pretty whack most of the time, but:

 

Odum, Ya-Sin and Clark!!  YIKES

 

I didn't this Stallworth was that bad.....? 

 

I'm also really am dumbfounded why this staff uses Mo Allie Cox so little. 

 

Buckner is the best player on the team. 

PFF ratings aren't perfect, but they are "directionally" correct. There are several I would argue are off 5 or so points, and maybe a few I'd say up to 10, but there aren't many I really say are completely whack. The most off IMO is probably Autry, but I can also understand somewhat do to miss tackle #s. I'd still have him in the 60s.

 

You missed Okereke on your YIKES mention.

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Fluke_33 Ring of Honor

Fluke_33

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Posted
6 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Note -  (last year)

>75 = Blue

<45 = Red


Rivers  
-PFF - 77.8 (74.3)
-QBR - 62.9 (50.5)
-YPG - 11th
-Comp% - 11th
-INT% (best/8gm min) - 11th (better than Brady, -Wilson+)
-Y/A - 12th
-ANY/A - 10th
-Note - consistent trend up since WK5

 

RBs
Taylor - 74.8 (NA)
-Leads teams in RB Ys, RB YPC, overall Catch %
Hines - 76.8 (63.3)
Wilkins - 67.3 (69.8)

 

TEs
MAC - 82.6 (67.3)
-Highest O graded Colts, rated 3rd TE in the NFL
Doyle - 58.0 (69.2)
Burton - 72.3 (49.2)

 

WRs
Hilton - 73.6 (75.1)
-Leads team in receving 
Pittman - 60.0 (NA)
Pascal - 61.0 (73.7)
Johnson - 63.4 (59.8)
Dulin - 65.0 (NA)
Harris - 76.5 (NA)
Fountain - 61.1 (NA)
Campbell - 72.8 (54.7)

 

OL
Castonzo - 73.5 (81.3)
Nelson - 76.9 (91.2)

-#3 OG in the NFL in pass block win rate, 

-#2 OG in the NFL in run block win rate

Kelly - 72.5 (73.0)

-#10 C in the NFL in pass block win rate
Glowinski - 67.1 (60.5)
Smith - 81.0 (79.8)
Clark - 49.1 (NA)
Green - 59.0 (NA)
Pinter - 57.8 (NA)

 

DL
Autry - 55.6 (71.0)
-leads team in TFLs, and 2nd in sacks
Houston - 64.4 (87.1)
-leads team in sacks
Buckner - 89.6 (78.8)
-leads team in QBKDs and pressures
-Highest graded Colt
Stewart - 65.1 (65.8)
AQM - 62.2 (66.2)
Lewis - 66.2 (46.1)
Stallworth - 43.6 (65.5)
Turay - 65.1 (91.3)
Banogu - 40.7 (49.0)

 

LB
Leonard - 69.7 (78.7)
Walker - 48.3 (61.0)
Okereke - 40.5 (78.4)
Franklin - 70.2 (61.3)
Speed - 60.0 (69.4)

 

DBs
Rhodes - 79.2 (46.4)
-leads team in lowest completion %
Ya-Sin - 40.5 (65.3)
Moore - 70.1 (75.5)
-leads team in INTs
Carrie - 75.4 (56.2)
Blackmon - 66.2 (NA)
Willis - 68.0 (69.5)
Wilson - 61.5 (71.9)
Rodgers - 64.1 (NA)
Odum - 28.9 (67.3)
Smith - 64.3 (NA)
 

Really appreciate this!   These numbers are just for the quarter and not year to date numbers right? 
 

I assume the last year numbers are for the full year. 
 

great stuff. Thanks!

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Fluke_33 Ring of Honor

Fluke_33

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5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

nope, year (season) to date

Have you done this each quarter and if so are those numbers readily accessible?  I wonder if there is growth by certain players.  If it isn’t easy for you to find don’t sweat it. This is a lot of of work done here!

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DougDew

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Thanks for putting this together.  A few thoughts:

 

No real surprises.  Players we think are doing poorly, doing well, and somewhere in the middle are supported by their ratings.

 

However, I'm surprised at the MAC and Pittman ratings.  It seems to me that Pittman has had more impact on the team than MAC, especially considering that the whole offense and even Rivers have looked better since his return to the field.  PFF ratings may be more narrowly focused however.

 

AC seems to be the olineman that has dropped off most.  This supports the theory that how well your LT is playing dictates how well your oline plays.  Its a very important position.

 

And, I've been thinking that ILB is almost as much of a need as some folks think DE and CB is, although an improved pass rush (which ours is not bad, IMO) would help the back 7.

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EastStreet

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40 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

Have you done this each quarter and if so are those numbers readily accessible?  I wonder if there is growth by certain players.  If it isn’t easy for you to find don’t sweat it. This is a lot of of work done here!

I won't swear by it, but I do think I posted them for 1Q and 1H.

I'll try to check a bit later. 

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EastStreet

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12 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Thanks for putting this together.  A few thoughts:

YW

12 minutes ago, DougDew said:

No real surprises.  Players we think are doing poorly, doing well, and somewhere in the middle are supported by their ratings.

 

However, I'm surprised at the MAC and Pittman ratings.  It seems to me that Pittman has had more impact on the team than MAC, especially considering that the whole offense and even Rivers have looked better since his return to the field.  PFF ratings may be more narrowly focused however.

I'm not all that surprised at either.

 

Pittman, if I had to guess (I don't have PFF premium), is he got dinged somewhat bad for the Balt game, and probably really bad for 2nd TN game. Poor game all around. 

 

For MAC, he has been really well rounded. His grades across the board are good, which is a bit uncommon. 

Since he's top 3, PFF lets you look at all his grades. 

RCV 78.8

PBLK 80.7

RBK 73.6

 

12 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

AC seems to be the olineman that has dropped off most.  This supports the theory that how well your LT is playing dictates how well your oline plays.  Its a very important position.

I have a suspicion it's a combination of things. Age, health, new contract maybe, and perhaps the blocking scheme has been tweaked a bit.

12 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

And, I've been thinking that ILB is almost as much of a need as some folks think DE and CB is, although an improved pass rush (which ours is not bad, IMO) would help the back 7.

It's a devalued position, so not sure it's a high need. I agree it's a medium need. Oke has really taken a step back, and perhaps it's because he has more responsibility in coverage now (more rip/liz?). He struggled vs the run last year, but he played less vs the run last year. He's playing more this year. IDK, but liked the position/snap share better last year.

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EastStreet

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Just now, aaron11 said:

fans like walker a lot more than pff does, always been that way 

He's been a highly productive tackler, and is the D play caller when out there. I'm not in love with him, but I do appreciate him. I think he'd be much better in a standard 3 LB scheme, or a 3-4 as an ILB. We're in nickel most of the time, so more a 2LB system than anything else.

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DougDew

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8 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

It's a devalued position, so not sure it's a high need. I agree it's a medium need. Oke has really taken a step back, and perhaps it's because he has more responsibility in coverage now (more rip/liz?). He struggled vs the run last year, but he played less vs the run last year. He's playing more this year. IDK, but liked the position/snap share better last year.

Agreed.  Maybe the term need isn't appropriate.  I think ILB should not be left out of the discussion of where we should address improvements this offseason.  So far, it has been left out.

 

Like many defenses in the NFL, we can get shredded in the middle with coverages.  That speaks to ILB and even SS to me.

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EastStreet

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2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Agreed.  Maybe the term need isn't appropriate.  I think ILB should not be left out of the discussion of where we need should address improvements this offseason.  So far, it has been left out.

I suggested we should be looking for the "right" ILB should they fall to the 3rd or 4th. and someone that shall remain nameless laughed. It's not one of my top 4 needs, but if the best available is an ILB in the 3rd or 4th, I'd be fine with it. DE, depending on what we do with Houston and Autry, could be a huge need, or not a big one at all. Total wildcard. I'd really like to see Turay come on the last 4 games.

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8 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I suggested we should be looking for the "right" ILB should they fall to the 3rd or 4th. and someone that shall remain nameless laughed. It's not one of my top 4 needs, but if the best available is an ILB in the 3rd or 4th, I'd be fine with it. DE, depending on what we do with Houston and Autry, could be a huge need, or not a big one at all. Total wildcard. I'd really like to see Turay come on the last 4 games.

If we're talking salary cap management, having a stud ILB along Leonard helps when contract talk comes, and the ability to have other options besides paying Leonard.  Not saying this is a reason to target ILB, but if talent in the draft aligns only to where a stud ILB is there in the 2nd, we could take him and use the 2 LB set as more of a base set.

 

I'll save the draft talk for another thread someday.

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5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

If we're talking salary cap management, having a stud ILB along Leonard helps when contract talk comes, and the ability to have other options besides paying Leonard.  Not saying this is a reason to target ILB, but if talent in the draft only aligns to where a stud ILB is there in the 2nd, we could take him and use the 2 LB set as more of a base set.

 

I'll save the draft talk for another thread someday.

We're in nickel the majority of the time anyway. IIRC, we're only playing with 3 LBs like 25ish % of the time.

 

 

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Nesjan3

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I used to like PFF. Then I learned there is no possible way they can know exactly what everyones job is on every single play. So even though they watch every snap of every player, they dont necessarily know exactly what that player should be doing on every play so i wouldnt pay to much mind to this. 

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EastStreet

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Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

Well quit being cheap. Colts nation is depending on you! :) 

Sorry brother. I used to spend like 500+ a year on recruiting (CFB) and other misc sites... Now you can get 95% of it for free. I've got too many toys and travel too much (or at least I did pre covid) so it will all go unused once we get out of lockdown hell. I have been tempted a lot this year to get PFF and all22, but we're near the end. :D

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1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

Looks like Carrie should be starting over Rock if you ask me.  Maybe they made the move.  I believe he was on the field more than Rock last week.  

Carrie has been looking good for the most part a NB. 

 

Wilson has also looked good when needed. 

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6 hours ago, EastStreet said:

i was just looking :-)

 

Here's the 1Q stuff (2 parter)

 

 

 

I don't have a lot of time but quickly compared the ol from the mid season numbers to 3rd quarter.  They all went up except for Glow.  That's a pretty good sign.  We want them to pick right about now....or in February!

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39 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

I don't have a lot of time but quickly compared the ol from the mid season numbers to 3rd quarter.  They all went up except for Glow.  That's a pretty good sign.  We want them to pick right about now....or in February!

that should say peek not pick.  

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CurBeatElite

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8 hours ago, DougDew said:

Thanks for putting this together.  A few thoughts:

 

No real surprises.  Players we think are doing poorly, doing well, and somewhere in the middle are supported by their ratings.

 

However, I'm surprised at the MAC and Pittman ratings.  It seems to me that Pittman has had more impact on the team than MAC, especially considering that the whole offense and even Rivers have looked better since his return to the field.  PFF ratings may be more narrowly focused however.

 

AC seems to be the olineman that has dropped off most.  This supports the theory that how well your LT is playing dictates how well your oline plays.  Its a very important position.

 

And, I've been thinking that ILB is almost as much of a need as some folks think DE and CB is, although an improved pass rush (which ours is not bad, IMO) would help the back 7.

 

8 hours ago, EastStreet said:

YW

I'm not all that surprised at either.

 

Pittman, if I had to guess (I don't have PFF premium), is he got dinged somewhat bad for the Balt game, and probably really bad for 2nd TN game. Poor game all around. 

 

For MAC, he has been really well rounded. His grades across the board are good, which is a bit uncommon. 

Since he's top 3, PFF lets you look at all his grades. 

RCV 78.8

PBLK 80.7

RBK 73.6

 

I have a suspicion it's a combination of things. Age, health, new contract maybe, and perhaps the blocking scheme has been tweaked a bit.

It's a devalued position, so not sure it's a high need. I agree it's a medium need. Oke has really taken a step back, and perhaps it's because he has more responsibility in coverage now (more rip/liz?). He struggled vs the run last year, but he played less vs the run last year. He's playing more this year. IDK, but liked the position/snap share better last year.

 

Not sure how penalties impact PFF grades, but Pittman had a very bad holding penalty a few weeks ago and then a bad false start penalty late in last week's game.  

 

7 hours ago, EastStreet said:

He's been a highly productive tackler, and is the D play caller when out there. I'm not in love with him, but I do appreciate him. I think he'd be much better in a standard 3 LB scheme, or a 3-4 as an ILB. We're in nickel most of the time, so more a 2LB system than anything else.

 

I'm wondering if Walker will be retained after this year.  My guess is that he'll want a pretty significant raise from the $2.13 million he makes now.  I'm in the same boat as you, in the fact that I appreciate Walker but am not in love with him.  Won't be surprised if we see a Mike Peterson situation play out this off-season where Walker looks for a big contract and Ballard decides that position can be filled by someone else without much dropoff for a lesser price.  Peterson wanted top dollar and Polian basically said Peterson was a good but not great player and with the scheme being run that he could plug another guy in and not miss a beat..... it sounds to me from offseason interviews that the coaching staff is high on EJ Speed's potential.  I am not sure what to expect, but it really wouldn't shock me if Ballard lets AW walk and plugs in EJ Speed or drafts someone to fill that void.

 

7 hours ago, Nickster said:

I think the numbers also support the idea that Leonard is not so great.  Bang average play so far.  Pretty poor in coverage.  I would suspect.  Do you have Leonard's coverage number East?

 

I think Leonard is still a top LB in the league.  His stats (tackle, interception, and sack numbers anyway) have dropped off some this year.  Though, he still has his monster games (15 tackles, 13 solo vs. Baltimore, 14 tackles, 9 solo vs. Tenn) and will (if healthy) have well over 100 tackles on the season despite missing two games.  He also has a knack for making clutch plays and big plays (forced fumbles, fumble recovers, critical sacks or tackles in key situations).

 

I will have to look a bit closer at him specifically over the next 4 games.  He's always flying around and is often times around the ball.  It does seem like we're blitzing less this year than the past two, which may be the basic explanation for his decline in sacks.  I also get a sense that teams are game planning to avoid him, though I will have to pay closer attention to that.

  

38 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

I don't have a lot of time but quickly compared the ol from the mid season numbers to 3rd quarter.  They all went up except for Glow.  That's a pretty good sign.  We want them to pick right about now....or in February!

 

Yes, aside from the QB pressure being more obvious without AC it does seem like the OL is doing a better job run blocking the past few weeks.  I'm not sure how much of that is due to the OL actually playing better or due to JT making better reads and playing more instinctively.  And Glow's still up compared to his PFF grade from last year.

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PrideOfAthens17

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I've watched this team's every snap just this season, but from what I've seen, Leonard and Walker remind me a great deal of how Wagner and Wright meshed so well together early in their time with Seattle, and eventually became the two leaders of the top linebacker corps in the league. If Indy isn't already there now, those two play so well together that they aren't far off. Honestly, I'd do everything I could to keep them together. Splitting them apart could have a much worse effect on the one you keep than you'd ever imagine until after you've done it. And then it's too late to get it back.

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4 hours ago, Fluke_33 said:

I don't have a lot of time but quickly compared the ol from the mid season numbers to 3rd quarter.  They all went up except for Glow.  That's a pretty good sign.  We want them to pick right about now....or in February!

I'm going to go through and compare later tonight after the IU game, or later tomorrow. Definitely interested in a few trends.

 

And yes, the OL trending up is good. Too bad we've had the injury challenges of late.

4 hours ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

I dont see why Autry gets such a low grade...

I don't either. If I had to guess, he gets dinged a bit for a few times he's been in coverage. Only 5 times, but he gave up all 5, and the passer rating allowed was high. The main thing IMO is that he gets abused at times depending on player he's facing up on. It doesn't happen often, but I've seen him get destroyed a couple times. If memory serves, he struggled against the Cleveland OG big time. But that said, doesn't happen often at all.

1 hour ago, PrideOfAthens17 said:

I've watched this team's every snap just this season, but from what I've seen, Leonard and Walker remind me a great deal of how Wagner and Wright meshed so well together early in their time with Seattle, and eventually became the two leaders of the top linebacker corps in the league. If Indy isn't already there now, those two play so well together that they aren't far off. Honestly, I'd do everything I could to keep them together. Splitting them apart could have a much worse effect on the one you keep than you'd ever imagine until after you've done it. And then it's too late to get it back.

Yep. Walker is underrated IMO, and agree he plays well in conjunction with Leonard. That chemistry was upset a bit with Oke getting more snaps the first half of the year. Not saying that is the cause for Leonard's drop, and Oke's 40ish rating, but it does make you think. I'm not saying Walker is a stud, but he's been a highly productive tackle machine, which allowed Leonard to seek and destroy. Just feels different this year. I'm sure part of it, is simply the upgrade of the DL, and less rushers getting through in the first place though. 

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3 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

Not sure how penalties impact PFF grades, but Pittman had a very bad holding penalty a few weeks ago and then a bad false start penalty late in last week's game.  

Pretty sure they impact PFF. Great point CBE.

3 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

I'm wondering if Walker will be retained after this year.  My guess is that he'll want a pretty significant raise from the $2.13 million he makes now.  I'm in the same boat as you, in the fact that I appreciate Walker but am not in love with him.  Won't be surprised if we see a Mike Peterson situation play out this off-season where Walker looks for a big contract and Ballard decides that position can be filled by someone else without much dropoff for a lesser price.  Peterson wanted top dollar and Polian basically said Peterson was a good but not great player and with the scheme being run that he could plug another guy in and not miss a beat..... it sounds to me from offseason interviews that the coaching staff is high on EJ Speed's potential.  I am not sure what to expect, but it really wouldn't shock me if Ballard lets AW walk and plugs in EJ Speed or drafts someone to fill that void.

I don't think Walker will be expensive. Could be wrong of course, but I just don't see him asking for a bunch, and I don't see him being in high demand. If I had to guess, I'd say Ballard encourages him to test the market for offers, but I think he ends up back with us. IMO, he knows he's in good situation. I think earlier this year, things might of been different with Oke eating in his snaps. Had Oke played better, than I would think Ballard would let him walk. That didn't happen though, and Oke struggled. So I think perhaps we realized Walker isn't an easy gap to fill. Oke wasn't great vs the run in college either, so not surprised. It'll be interesting. All I know is Oke is not the answer, and is not a 3 down ILB. 

 

Speed does intrigue me. Liked the pick, and liked it a bit more than the Oke pick (value wise). The fact we haven't seen him much gives room for pause though. Raw kid, so not surprising we haven't seen him much, but thought we'd at least seen him over Adams and Zaire. I wouldn't be surprised if he does, or doesn't develop. 

3 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

I think Leonard is still a top LB in the league.  His stats (tackle, interception, and sack numbers anyway) have dropped off some this year.  Though, he still has his monster games (15 tackles, 13 solo vs. Baltimore, 14 tackles, 9 solo vs. Tenn) and will (if healthy) have well over 100 tackles on the season despite missing two games.  He also has a knack for making clutch plays and big plays (forced fumbles, fumble recovers, critical sacks or tackles in key situations).

 

I will have to look a bit closer at him specifically over the next 4 games.  He's always flying around and is often times around the ball.  It does seem like we're blitzing less this year than the past two, which may be the basic explanation for his decline in sacks.  I also get a sense that teams are game planning to avoid him, though I will have to pay closer attention to that., 

I'm always a bit weary of the "elite" tag, but at minimum, Leonard is very very good. Folks calling him average are silly. He has some small holes in his games at times, but to say he's average is pretty funny.

 

On blitzing, Last year he 2 sacks in 34 blitzes, in 10 games. Last year, 5 sacks on 52 blitzes in 13 games.

So 3.4 blitzes per game vs 4.0 bpg last year. If he had just one more sack, he'd be close to his sacks per blitz averge.

 

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