Trade #1 Pick For #2?

[shakedownstreet]

absolutely not, by no means, negative, never, nix, no way, not at all, not by any means

[Tark The Shark]

Sorry didnt see the if they had him part.

It's all good, I still would have said no to all of those guys for Luck. Luck is that valuable to the Colts

[ruksak]

Again this isn't something new. Chris Paul - CP3, Kobe Bryant - KB24, Michael Jordan - MJ23, Chris Johnson - CJ24 and so and so on. It seems to be you're not liking Griffin for something else I'll leave alone.

[UndecidedFrog]

You're singling out Griffin for something multiple draft picks do. This isn't the first time top 5 players have done this, but because it's RGIII doing it, he has this perception of immature to you? It just sounds stupid when this is something that always happens. It seems like you want to make something out of nothing. He's been called RGIII before being talked about as a top 5 pick so this isn't a marketing idea.

Again this isn't something new. Chris Paul - CP3, Kobe Bryant - KB24, Michael Jordan - MJ23, Chris Johnson - CJ24 and so and so on. It seems to be you're not liking Griffin for something else I'll leave alone.

I don't think that is what ruksak was singling out Griffin because he wears sponsor apparel.

Andrew Luck is sponsored by Nike already.

Yet when you compare what Griffin chose to wear (from the entire array of Adidas wear that was available to him), ruksak correctly IMO saw that he chose to wear Tshirts with snarky comments on them.

We saw Luck's pro-day, and he chose to wear (from the entire array of Nike wear that was available to him) relatively sedate, plain Tshirts with no snarky comments on them.

[Blackhawk4]

Not even about race. It's the perception that he's all about money. People's view of some Athletes as people who just do it for the money. Albert Haynsworth probably the most recent player to get viewed with this perception that he only plays football for the money. Griffin hasn't done anything to make it seem like he's trying to play in the NFL just for the money.

I don't think that is what ruksak was singling out Griffin because he wears sponsor apparel.

Andrew Luck is sponsored by Nike already.

Yet when you compare what Griffin chose to wear (from the entire array of Adidas wear that was available to him), ruksak correctly IMO saw that he chose to wear Tshirts with snarky comments on them.

We saw Luck's pro-day, and he chose to wear (from the entire array of Nike wear that was available to him) relatively sedate, plain Tshirts with no snarky comments on them.

What is snarky about that shirt? It's a simply trying point out performing under pressure.

[HOFClipboardHolder]

Again this isn't something new. Chris Paul - CP3, Kobe Bryant - KB24, Michael Jordan - MJ23, Chris Johnson - CJ24 and so and so on. It seems to be you're not liking Griffin for something else that's just sad. He's been called RGIII before being mentioned as a top 5 pick. This isn't some marketing idea someone at Adidas came up with a month ago.

I have never seen CJ2k referred to as CJ24, same goes with Kobe's and Jordan's provided nicknames

[ruksak]

I don't think that is what ruksak was singling out Griffin because he wears sponsor apparel.

Andrew Luck is sponsored by Nike already.

Yet when you compare what Griffin chose to wear (from the entire array of Adidas wear that was available to him), ruksak correctly IMO saw that he chose to wear Tshirts with snarky comments on them.

We saw Luck's pro-day, and he chose to wear (from the entire array of Nike wear that was available to him) relatively sedate, plain Tshirts with no snarky comments on them.

Exactly. Griffin could have decided not to appear outwardly reaching with catch phrases and bling. Luck looked like he showed up with his boots on, so to speak, ready to work.

My point in all this wasn't to make fashion commentary. We all know they can both throw the ball. They can both run and are both athletic. Causing us to look deeper. Ironically, while looking deeper I readily noticed what was fast apparent on the surface. That is, how they present themselves to me. As someone that has hired and fired countless individuals in my time, many of whom were very young, I have a knack for picking up on these things. Griffin reminds me of the kids that show up to work with their expensive clothes on. Possibly a hang-up of mine.....I'm just sayin.....

[ruksak]

What is snarky about that shirt? It's a simply trying point out performing under pressure.

You don't point that out with a T-shirt. You go out there and frickin do it.

Thats the difference I talking about between these two. You see what I'm saying here?

[Blackhawk4]

You don't point that out with a T-shirt. You go out there and frickin do it.

Thats the difference I talking about between these two. You see what I'm saying here?

Who died and made you king? He can go out and wear a T-shirt that has a picture of a rubber duck for all I care what does that have to do with his character? NFL players who wear Nike sometimes have the "Just do it" shirts on I don't see people knocking them for it saying they're immature and that they're more about $$$ than they are their playbook. I just find it silly to single out RGIII when nobody made it an issue with other players in the past as much as we are now.

[Chris_21]

I think the redskins actuallly value RG3 over Luck.

[ruksak]

Who died and made you king?

Jeeez....chill out a bit bro. I'm just sayin what I feel and think.

Look.....I saw a guy indoors throwing in very ideal circumstances wearing what I thought were unnecessary comments on his fancy gear, which screamed superficial to me.

I saw a guy wearing gym shorts and a grey T-shirt throwing outside, voluntarily against the wind, with a guy chasing him with a broom and throwing things at his feet to distract him, which screamed "down to earth work ethic" to me.

I didn't see skin color. I didn't enter into it with preconceived notions.

[HOFClipboardHolder]

Do they still even sell "Just Do It" tshirts?

[Blackhawk4]

Jeeez....chill out a bit bro. I'm just sayin what I feel and think.

Look.....I saw a guy indoors throwing in very ideal circumstances wearing what I thought were unnecessary comments on his fancy gear, which screamed superficial to me.

I saw a guy wearing gym shorts and a grey T-shirt throwing outside, voluntarily against the wind, with a guy chasing him with a broom and throwing things at his feet to distract him, which screamed "down to earth work ethic" to me.

I didn't see skin color. I didn't enter into it with preconceived notions.

Like I said earlier it's not even about that. It's about perceiving him all about the money like he's a player who chooses to play just for the $$$.

[21isSuperman]

I was thinking about this the other day to myself, "wouldn't it be funny if the Redskins became super paranoid about something and traded more away to get #1...knowing Washington's management, it could happen". The Onion had an article the other day that was entitled "Redskins Give Rams A Few More Picks Just To Be Safe"

[Jay305]

No.

Griff is going to fall well short of the #2 pick value, let alone the ancillary picks given as compensation for the trade-up. Red flags aplenty indicating issues with injury potential, maturity, leadership and attitude with that kid.

Red flags you say?

[ruksak]

Red flags you say?

Yes. Scroll up the page for a debriefing.

[NewEra]

no stinkin way!!

[RGIII]

They will not trade Orakpo or Kerrigan just to trade up one spot.

Bingo. Both of those guys are worth more to the Skins than the difference between RGIII and Luck. Frankly, I suspect that RGIII might be the guy sitting at the top of our board, anyway, just because he's a better scheme fit and Shanahan is notorious for trusting in his own ability to coach players up to their potential. In that case, there's no sense in making that trade if you guys are set on Luck.

Griff came off as immature and showy at his pro-day, especially in compare to the demeanor and presentation of Luck. I discussed this in another thread earlier. Griff was strutting himself in his cute little Under Armor outfit with the "cool" looking yet entirely aesthetic left arm sleeve thingy. He also had some stupid message written on his chest in neon letters, and later appeared at the presser with yet another neon message to convey his attitude.

Grow up kid. Words are worth about as much as that penny-T.

That's quite the interpretation, there. Some might say that instead of being immature and showy, he was simply relaxed and having a little fun out there with his teammates. You can stretch that into a negative if you so choose but I, personally, wouldn't.

The no pressure, no diamonds message you're complaining about was Baylor's unofficial team motto for the season or something to that effect, IIRC. Here's the full quote from Griffin's Heismann speech:

That's right, everybody associated with Baylor University has reason to celebrate tonight. To my teammates, I'd like to say thank you. As we say, the hotter the heat, the harder the steel. No pressure, no diamonds. We compete, we win. We are Baylor. Baylor we are, Baylor we'll always be, but it's up to us to define what that means, and this Heisman Trophy is only the beginning of that process.

It's not the "snarky comment" you've been making it out to be.

I was thinking about this the other day to myself, "wouldn't it be funny if the Redskins became super paranoid about something and traded more away to get #1...knowing Washington's management, it could happen". The Onion had an article the other day that was entitled "Redskins Give Rams A Few More Picks Just To Be Safe"

Odds are you're unfamiliar with current management if you're still saying that. Our current front office is much more shrewd than it was when Dan Snyder was more directly involved in operations via his right-hand man with no proper qualifications for the job, Vinny Cerrato, as the Executive Vice President of Football Operations.

[21isSuperman]

Odds are you're unfamiliar with current management if you're still saying that. Our current front office is much more shrewd than it was when Dan Snyder was more directly involved in operations via his right-hand man with no proper qualifications for the job, Vinny Cerrato, as the Executive Vice President of Football Operations.

You would be correct. I'm not too familiar with the 'Skins current management; I was just going off of Dan Snyder's moves

[theblueplague]

I'm gonna have to back ruksak on this one. While it's a little silly to be judging someone by what they're wearing, we're fans. We're the spectators, what else are we gonna do?

That being said, ruksak has a point. I watched the entirety of both pro days, and Luck just reminds me so much of Peyton. Low key and work ethic are what come to mind. The little things he did with his coach like the broom, the bean bags being tossed at his feet, "snapping" the ball by having his coach drop it and catching it before it falls, and moving imaginary defenders with his pump fakes and eyes...

RG3 likes to have fun. You could see it from the way he was joking around with his teammates and the touchdown "grenade" dance he did with his receivers during his pro day. He wore a t-shirt with a catchy motivational phrase when it really wasn't necessary. This means he actually spent time thinking about what cool phrase he was gonna have on his t-shirt. I bet those thoughts never even crossed Luck's mind.

What did Luck do? He threw on a regular gray t-shirt with "Stanford" on the front and "12" on the back. What would a 22 year old Peyton Manning do? I don't think I need to answer that. Luck's attitude and maturity just screams Indianapolis Colts football, and I am absolutely pumped to see this kid in blue and white.

I think there's a good chance that this Griffin kid is going to be a bust. Not a JaMarcus Russell type bust where the guy is just horrible and has zero work ethic, but a David Carr type. He just won't be able to cut it.

[RGIII]

You would be correct. I'm not too familiar with the 'Skins current management; I was just going off of Dan Snyder's moves

No worries.

Most of us like the current iteration of our FO because they've demonstrated a willingness to let players walk when they ask for too much and have put a much higher value on keeping and acquiring additional draft picks than in the past. Obviously, we still reap the benefits of perepetually being one of the top 3 moneymakers in the league and having an owner who is willing to spend to build a winner. The key is now we have guys who actually have proven track records doing the actual building.

So long as Snyder continues to play nice, I'd say that he's settled into a nice middle ground between the domineering control freaks (Jerry Jones, Al Davis, etc.) and the cheapskates (Mike Brown and pre-2008 Bill Bidwill).

[Jaric]

Man, this is the forum to post at apparently. We have Andrew Luck AND RG3 posting here

(Welcome skins fan!)

As to the original question. No. I've already mentally committed to Andrew Luck and I fear change.

[Jaric]

For the record though, I like RG3. I think he's going to do well in the league. I just like Luck better.

[21isSuperman]

No worries.

Most of us like the current iteration of our FO because they've demonstrated a willingness to let players walk when they ask for too much and have put a much higher value on keeping and acquiring additional draft picks than in the past. Obviously, we still reap the benefits of perepetually being one of the top 3 moneymakers in the league and having an owner who is willing to spend to build a winner. The key is now we have guys who actually have proven track records doing the actual building.

So long as Snyder continues to play nice, I'd say that he's settled into a nice middle ground between the domineering control freaks (Jerry Jones, Al Davis, etc.) and the cheapskates (Mike Brown and pre-2008 Bill Bidwill).

That's good. I've felt bad for the Redskins. They've been bad for a long time now and every team in the NFC East has had some measure of good success other than the Reskins. Best of luck this upcoming season!

[funktacious2]

I'm glad you didn't think I was doing my Joan Rivers impression and commenting on fashion. I'm looking at the little things. Ya know, those things that nobody saw with Leaf. I sense immaturity, conceitedness and a superficial demeanor in Griffin. I get this feeling he has his mind more on dollar signs than playbooks.

What you see as "immature and showy" most other people are calling laid-back and confident. I can't stop hearing enough how much of a classy guy he apparently is. So what if he put on some sponsored clothes and had a little fun in his workout to help him and his teammates feel more comfortable? In the end it didn't stop scouts, analysts, or the media from raving about how great of a prospect he is. Personally, I like Luck better, but If i'm going to try and find a reason as to like one or the other it's not going because one puts on rap music and pals around a bit at his pro-day (which are scripted spectacles anyways).

[ColtsPacersfan]

Nope, No way and no how. I think the Colts are very smart and very wise. They won't be that dumb. I do feel sorry for RGIII that he has to go the Redskins, Of course I feel sorry for any player that has to go to that team. But the Colts trading the number 1 pick is silly talk.

[deedub75]

Just the other day I was telling Frog not to mention one word about Luck to me, as I was not in the mood. I'm not stuck on Luck, but I'm definitely getting behind him.

Whats with this word "blind" that people keep using? It's so insulting and casts a ridiculous sweeping generalization over people. Maybe it's just my opinion that Griffin seems superficial and fake and Luck seems like the real deal? Maybe I think that on my own volition without some dirty reasoning behind it, like racism or "blind" tunnel vision?

Lets relax a bit here guys. We're just giving opinion.

Exactly! I was giving my opinion just as you say.

[CR91]

no

[Balzer40]

I'm glad you didn't think I was doing my Joan Rivers impression and commenting on fashion. I'm looking at the little things. Ya know, those things that nobody saw with Leaf. I sense immaturity, conceitedness and a superficial demeanor in Griffin. I get this feeling he has his mind more on dollar signs than playbooks.

I agree Ruk, I have been saying the same thing about this kid since he was pimping himself for the heisman. He seems like a decent kid but he also comes off as arrogant. Its fine to be confident, but when it crosses the line into arrogance then it is a major problem. The Luck/Griffin situation reminds me so much of the Manning/Leaf situation. Manning was the boring, say all the right things kind of guy, and Leaf was the arrogant, flashy, guy that many fell in love with. Hope for Griffin's sake that he tones himself down a bit and starts focusing on football instead of putting clever sayings on his t-shirts for the media. I think Irsay will remember that Manning /Leaf situation and pick the "say all the right things" guy and leave the flash in the pan guy to the Skins.

[unitaswestand]

I'd pass. I still think RG3 is being hyped to an extent. I hope he proves me wrong though.

I think RGIII is this years Akili Smith. I remember I hadn't heard of the guy. The draft came up and all of suddenly he was a top pick and went #2. Guy couldn't read a defense.

[RGIII]

Man, this is the forum to post at apparently. We have Andrew Luck AND RG3 posting here

(Welcome skins fan!)

That's good. I've felt bad for the Redskins. They've been bad for a long time now and every team in the NFC East has had some measure of good success other than the Reskins. Best of luck this upcoming season!

Thanks!

For the record though, I like RG3. I think he's going to do well in the league. I just like Luck better.

I'd be thrilled with either. It really bothers me when people feel obligated to try to knock the other guy down a peg or six just because he's not their guy. I've seen it quite a bit both here and on the Skins board and I just don't get it. Frankly, I'd like to see both players and their respective teams succeed.

Between recently gutting the roster, rebuilding, going to a 3-4 look, and drafting a talented QB prospect in 2012, the two franchises have a fair amount of common ground these days.

Nope, No way and no how. I think the Colts are very smart and very wise. They won't be that dumb. I do feel sorry for RGIII that he has to go the Redskins, Of course I feel sorry for any player that has to go to that team. But the Colts trading the number 1 pick is silly talk.

Of course, there are times where I question my natural inclination towards good will. ;)

I think RGIII is this years Akili Smith. I remember I hadn't heard of the guy. The draft came up and all of suddenly he was a top pick and went #2. Guy couldn't read a defense.

Akili Smith had substantially less experience and sustained collegiate success than RGIII has. Smith rose from perhaps not being a draft pick at all to being the #2 overall after 11 starts. Griffin rose from a late 1st/early 2nd prospect to the #2 overall and was a four year starter.

[pacolts56]

Odds are you're unfamiliar with current management if you're still saying that. Our current front office is much more shrewd than it was when Dan Snyder was more directly involved in operations via his right-hand man with no proper qualifications for the job, Vinny Cerrato, as the Executive Vice President of Football Operations.

You consider that treasure chest of draft picks they gave up to draft Griffin shrewd?

They outbid a Cleveland team armed with a lot of picks and paid thru the nose. It also means that Browns Pres. Mike Holmgren, who has coached the likes of Montana, Young and Favre..... for all practical purposes said "too rich for me" at the pricetag for Griffin.

The move might pay off.... and it might not.... but the price was steep either way. And I'm guessing Dan Snyder was involved front and center as well.

For the record.... I wouldn't trade with the Skins and flip-flop the top two picks.

[Riggo]

Exactly. Griffin could have decided not to appear outwardly reaching with catch phrases and bling. Luck looked like he showed up with his boots on, so to speak, ready to work.

My point in all this wasn't to make fashion commentary. We all know they can both throw the ball. They can both run and are both athletic. Causing us to look deeper. Ironically, while looking deeper I readily noticed what was fast apparent on the surface. That is, how they present themselves to me. As someone that has hired and fired countless individuals in my time, many of whom were very young, I have a knack for picking up on these things. Griffin reminds me of the kids that show up to work with their expensive clothes on. Possibly a hang-up of mine.....I'm just sayin.....

I had to make an account here after seeing this stuff about RG3.

I think it's funny that you didn't want Blackhawk making a sweeping generalization about you when you're making one about RG3. You're using a shirt he was wearing that has his team's motto on it to indicate that he could be all about flash and money instead of actually winning football games and playing good football? I find that amazing. RG3 and Luck are different kids, RG3 loves having fun with his teammates and showed that at his Pro Day. He has always been a very relaxed and funny guy in interviews and things, it shows me he has got an actual personality. Just because he doesn't use the same robotic answers as Luck and other NFL quarterbacks doesn't mean he doesn't care. He grew up with military parents and constantly thanks his father for showing him how to be a man and a quarterback.

If a forum poster on a message board can point out this guy's huge psychological red flags, how come the people who get paid to figure this kind of stuff out can't?

Also, quit this passive aggressive crap. You make these silly accusations about RG3, someone defends him and you go woah, woah, woah man, calm down I'm just expressing my opinion and then you try and make it a racial thing which is not even close to what Blackhawk was saying. Then you use that race card picture? The guy didn't even mention race, you did.

Anyway, to sum this up, I'm not trying to sit here and preach the praises of RG3 and that he will be the next all-time great or anything like that. He's got just as much of a chance of being a bust as any other NFL player. I'm also not trying to downplay Luck by any means, and if the Redskins ended up with him, I'd be just as thrilled. But you can't look at a guy's t-shirt and say you've figured out his psychological red flags off of a shirt.

[Chris_21]

For one, Bashing RG3 for something on his t-shirt Is pretty silly. The other comments about his attitude, character, etc are pretty weak as well. Everything you hear is just tge opposite They both appear solid individuals at this point.

I would prefer Luck but that does not mean I can't appreciate RG3.

Colts are blessed to go instantly from Manning to Luck. Look at all the teams that have suffered with poor QB play for years. Albeit some of their own doing.

[ColtsPacersfan]

I think both Luck and RGIII will have great pro careers. I just don't see the Colts trading the number 1 pick. I just hope the redskins don't ruin their Rookie QB like they have with most of their players they have drafted. Whoever that may be. I think we are getting Luck with the number 1 pick. But stranger things has happened. I would be happy with either. But if I was drafting I would draft Luck for the Colts. But I will leave that to Irsay, Grigs and Pags.

[tmljeh19]

Bahhh and me sitting here with no likes. Sorry, I owe ya one.

Griff came off as immature and showy at his pro-day, especially in compare to the demeanor and presentation of Luck. I discussed this in another thread earlier. Griff was strutting himself in his cute little Under Armor outfit with the "cool" looking yet entirely aesthetic left arm sleeve thingy. He also had some stupid message written on his chest in neon letters, and later appeared at the presser with yet another neon message to convey his attitude.

Grow up kid. Words are worth about as much as that penny-T.

Luck impressed me by not trying to impress me with slick outfits and clever sayings prominently displayed on his chest. He looked like he grabbed whatever was laying on the floor when he woke up, he went out there and chucked the ball into the wind and I freakin love that about him.

When speaking, Luck was very sure and nonchalant. I hate fake and Griff reeks of fake. Luck is the real. I'm really getting fired up about him now that my divorce with Manning has been finalized.

Ummm what??? Someone has some unjustified hatred for the kid, plain and simple. First off he is sponsored by Adidas not UA. Its pretty clear in the picture if you just looked at it. But I see you arent too keen on the observation skills because if you actually watched his pro day he was ANYTHING BUT immature. After every caught pass he went up and thanked or high fived his WR who caught it, had his arm around his center in the huddle and his coach. But you're right that screams immature and not a leader.

Second his "flashy arm thingy" he wears every game so its not for show for his pro-day.

Third, again he is sponsored by Adidas, they pay him to wear their gear. Im not sure what you think a sponsorship is if you are ragging on him for wearing their stuff. Who cares what it says on it? I assume you would turned down millions of dollars just to wear some gear because you dont want people to think you are cocky correct?

What exactly is fake about RG3? Luck is a heck of a talent but if you dont think RG3 is just as special you are either really biased or extremely unintelligent. RG3 is faster then Luck, has a much better deep ball, much more accurate with his deep ball as well. Both are competitors, both are leaders, both have their own unique, although different, swagger. You call RG3s cocky but Luck's is the "real deal".

[tmljeh19]

If the opportunity were presented, would you trade the #1 overall pick to the Redskins for their #2 and say DE/OLB Brian Orakpo or Ryan Kerrigan?

Personally, its still pretty close for me deciding between Luck and RG3. Both I think will be great QBs. If we can make our decison easier and still land a top flight starting defensive player in the deal, I wouldnt mind it.

Why would we trade up to #1 when we clearly want RG3 more then Luck? Luck is a perfect fit for what you want to do in Indy. RG3 is a perfect fit for what we want to do in DC. And the fact that you think we would move Rak or Kerrigan is hysterical to boot.

[Blackhawk4]

Ummm what??? Someone has some unjustified hatred for the kid, plain and simple. First off he is sponsored by Adidas not UA. Its pretty clear in the picture if you just looked at it. But I see you arent too keen on the observation skills because if you actually watched his pro day he was ANYTHING BUT immature. After every caught pass he went up and thanked or high fived his WR who caught it, had his arm around his center in the huddle and his coach. But you're right that screams immature and not a leader.

Second his "flashy arm thingy" he wears every game so its not for show for his pro-day.

Third, again he is sponsored by Adidas, they pay him to wear their gear. Im not sure what you think a sponsorship is if you are ragging on him for wearing their stuff. Who cares what it says on it? I assume you would turned down millions of dollars just to wear some gear because you dont want people to think you are cocky correct?

What exactly is fake about RG3? Luck is a heck of a talent but if you dont think RG3 is just as special you are either really biased or extremely unintelligent. RG3 is faster then Luck, has a much better deep ball, much more accurate with his deep ball as well. Both are competitors, both are leaders, both have their own unique, although different, swagger. You call RG3s cocky but Luck's is the "real deal".

First off Ruksak has said multiple time he does not hate RGIII and that is not his argument. If you're going to call someone out, make sure you at least point out correctly what they're arguing. He is not saying that RGIII is not a special player that isn't his argument either. He has his opinion and has evidence to support his opinion. Atleast to me that comes across as an intelligent member who isn't unbiased.

[tmljeh19]

No.

Griff is going to fall well short of the #2 pick value, let alone the ancillary picks given as compensation for the trade-up. Red flags aplenty indicating issues with injury potential, maturity, leadership and attitude with that kid.

What are these red flags that you just throw out there blindly? Injuries? ACL, three years ago...next. Maturity? Are you serious? Natural leader. Players love him, coaches love him, scouts rave about his leadership...next. Attitude? What attitude? Because he is confident in his game? Because he knows he can potentially revolutionize the QB position in he NFL? Ill take that 8 days a week over someone who has no confidence in himself. News flash, Andrew Luck has an attitude. They all do. Every NFL player thinks they are good. You have to be to play that level to begin with.

[tmljeh19]

First off Ruksak has said multiple time he does not hate RGIII and that is not his argument. If you're going to call someone out, make sure you at least point out correctly what they're arguing. He is not saying that RGIII is not a special player that isn't his argument either. He has his opinion and has evidence to support his opinion. Atleast to me that comes across as an intelligent member who isn't unbiased.

What evidence? What proof? Because he wore a t-shirt with a saying on it that is proof he is cocky. Watch ONE, just ONE interview with the kid and its the exact opposite. Throwing out blind assumptions is no intelligent.