Case Against Jordan Love

[lennymoore24]

On 1/14/2020 at 1:18 PM, chad72 said:

 

Yeah, everyone should get in line like this:

 

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/04/2017-nfl-draft-grades-picks-analysis-results

 

 

10. Patrick Mahomes, QB Texas Tech — Kansas City Chiefs (from Buffalo)

Grade: C-

Analysis: Calling Mahomes a project is a major understatement. He’s nowhere near ready to play in the NFL. And, honestly, he may never be. Between his inconsistent accuracy due to poor mechanics, his tendency to bail from clean pockets and his lack of field vision, he’s going to leave as many big plays on the field as he creates. This was a risky pick.

 

If a whole bunch of you guys keep throwing a whole bunch of spaghetti, something is bound to stick and someone can come back and say "I told you so"  with a bunch of old threads propped up again. If Jordan Love goes to the right team and coach that maximizes his talents, I have no doubt he will succeed. Browns were waiting at No.12 for Mahomes, and guess what, Andy Reid and the Chiefs swooped in and got him at No.10. 

 

If you like the guy and feel he can help you win, you take the guy when you can, cannot listen to draft pundits and analysts regarding drafting position. That is all I got to say.

 

 

 

But I think the mistake is people think because Mahomes succeeded, that now someone similar to him in physical ability will have the same result.   That is like saying because Tom Brady was not rated highly, any QB who was a winner but not great athletic skills could be the next Tom Brady.   I think Love is being overvalued because of his traits.  I think Love will be a bust in the NFL.

[lennymoore24]

On 1/14/2020 at 7:32 PM, chad72 said:

We will see how he does at the combine and Pro-Days. The hard analysis  will come out. 

 

As has been said many times, it is easy for QBs to look good in shorts throwing to open targets.  We have the video on him.  We know what he does.  I feel he is terribly overrated.

[lennymoore24]

On 1/14/2020 at 7:56 PM, WarGhost21 said:

I am talking about Love though. The things he struggles with are almost the exact same as what Brissett struggles with. I don’t want a project QB to try to learn from a QB who does everything the same way as he does

 

Exactly!  if you really analyze Love's game, he really struggles with the same things Brissett does. He is just more athletic and takes more chances.  But I think we would basically get the same result.  

[lennymoore24]

On 1/15/2020 at 8:47 AM, stitches said:

Imagine if Jacoby had to start next season with AC, Nelson, Kelly and SMith off the team. 

 

That would mean OLine of Le'Raven - Eldrenkamp- Andrews - Glowinski - Haeg

 

Then get 2 of those injured in the first two games of the season and get two off-the-street FAs to replace them.

 

Take away TY, Doyle, Ebron and Mack... and replace them with... whoever you pick from our replacements - Rodgers, Mo, Travis, Wilkins

 

Now go and remove the whole offensive coaching staff and put back Chuck and Chud in charge.

 

Now give Brissett the worst defense in the league(I know it seems like we were bad on D, because of the last 4 weeks, but for most of the season, this defense was actually quite good).  

 

This is the equivalent of what Love had to deal with this year. And he still played some amazing football at times and had numerous NFL throws every single game. 

 

 

 

But it really goes back to the eye test.  If you looked at my previous posts, I have always thought Brissett was bad.  Before the reason, when we were 5-2, doesn't matter.  Because I would see his decisions were bad.  We were just fortunate to win.  So some now would say Brissett had a beat up receiving corp and too many injuries on the team. But it doesn't take away from him making poor decisions.  That is my argument with Love.  I don't care whether his supporting cast changed.  You still have to look at his reads, his throws, and his overall QB play.

 

So let me turn that on you.  Brissett did lose most of his receivers.  Defense regressed.  Kicker missed lots of kicks.  Injuries all around.  So would you evaluate him on 5-2 and say he should get another year?  

[lennymoore24]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

Countering with the Case for the Love. Exhibit A: Kyle Crabbs summary

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/jordan-love/PbA4nRzHfK

 

Player Summary - Jordan Love has franchise quarterback qualities and should be regarded as a prospect with a Pro Bowl ceiling. Love's statistical regression in 2019 isn't indicative of a regression in skills or decision making — was a victim of poor supporting cast in many instances. Love will need patience and must go to a team with coaching staff able to nurture, develop and cater passing schemes to where he thrives. He isn't plug and play but he's a potential game changing QB. 

Updated: 12/23/2019
 

 

 

We all have our opinions and I could be completely wrong.  You can probably find as many articles saying Ryan Leaf would be better than Peyton Manning.  I am just stating that from watching his game videos and analyzing situational football, I think it would be a mistake to take him.  I think he has too much he has to get better at.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Everyone can have a favorite QB as a fan you want to draft.  But your not being honest if you don’t see all the talent that Love has.

[Defjamz26]

7 minutes ago, lennymoore24 said:

 

But I think the mistake is people think because Mahomes succeeded, that now someone similar to him in physical ability will have the same result.   That is like saying because Tom Brady was not rated highly, any QB who was a winner but not great athletic skills could be the next Tom Brady.   I think Love is being overvalued because of his traits.  I think Love will be a bust in the NFL.

Love has elite traits though. QBs with real elite traits outside of arm strength don’t bust. In fact it’s the QBs who lack elite traits that are likely to bust. I mean what elite traits did Trubisky really have? The real mistake is thinking you can take the uninspiring guys like Fromm in the 2nd and because they’re “safe” they have higher rates of success. You bet on the guy with the traits and intangibles each time. The only “average” traits QB in the NFL to succeed is Tom Brady.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, lennymoore24 said:

 

We all have our opinions and I could be completely wrong.  You can probably find as many articles saying Ryan Leaf would be better than Peyton Manning.  I am just stating that from watching his game videos and analyzing situational football, I think it would be a mistake to take him.  I think he has too much he has to get better at.  

His mechanics and footwork are really good. His arm talent is not debateable. The only thing he really needs to learn and can only be learned in the NFL is reading nfl defenses. For all we know when he gets to the combine and gets on the whiteboard he might have a bigger grasp then what he shows in games. 

[Moosejawcolt]

On 1/14/2020 at 10:19 AM, lennymoore24 said:

Washington the first year.  Very simple reads and he did very well.  After that year, teams learned to take those away and he had a very hard time.  Same thing happened to Love.  He has a very hard time going through progressions and recognizing more complex coverage schemes.  That is why he turned into a turnover machine this year.  If I were to compare Love to anyone, I would say he is a more athletic Jameis Winston.  He might throw 3 TDs but also have 2 interceptions and a fumble.  I think some people get enamored because of his physical ability, which is elite.  But that is fools gold.  In general, if a college QB is said to have all the physical tools but need work on their accuracy and decision making, that rarely gets better in the NFL.  I will say now that Herbert and Eason scare me as well.  Similar reasons. You are draft physical specimens who are very streaky with the hope when they get to the NFL they will improve.

Besides obviously Joe Burrow and Tua, the QBs I have analyzed so far I would be more interested in is Jake Fromm and Anthony Gordon.  Fromm has been put down because of his supporting cast and he didn't have big numbers this year.  If that were the trend, then I could see why.  But last year he threw 30 TDs and that wasn't a problem.  What I like about Fromm is he is smart, decisive, goes through progressions quickly, and is very determined.  Gordon has one of the best releases I have ever evaluated at any level.  He effortlessly can make any throw and he has great touch.  He is very accurate and poised.   It is often tricky to evaluate QBs from Air Raid but I think Gordon has what i takes to develop.  He is the polar opposite of Brissett. He is very aggressive, can make touch throws, very decisive, and goes through his progressions before trying to run around.

Now, just like anyone else on here, I could be completely wrong.  But I have predicted very well how other QBs would turn out. I knew RGIII would be backup in year 3.  I knew Trubinsky would be a bust and Minshew would do well for where he was drafted.   But I honestly would be very disappointed if the Colts drafted Love. I think that is three years down the tubes for this team and probably the death nail for Ballard/Reich.

I am so confused by this board.  People continually criticise Brissett, which is warranted, but are willing to draft an athletic turn over machine with the hopes of him turning into Mahommes. I do not want a project. I want s team where the qb is a piece of the puzzle and not the whole puzzle. 

[Moosejawcolt]

56 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Love has elite traits though. QBs with real elite traits outside of arm strength don’t bust. In fact it’s the QBs who lack elite traits that are likely to bust. I mean what elite traits did Trubisky really have? The real mistake is thinking you can take the uninspiring guys like Fromm in the 2nd and because they’re “safe” they have higher rates of success. You bet on the guy with the traits and intangibles each time. The only “average” traits QB in the NFL to succeed is Tom Brady.

Tribusky is very athletic and has a strong arm but he sucks.  Physically people would say he has elite traits.  His old college teammates speak of him being so athletic and confused that he has not excelled in the NFL

[Defjamz26]

24 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Tribusky is very athletic and has a strong arm but he sucks.  Physically people would say he has elite traits.  His old college teammates speak of him being so athletic and confused that he has not excelled in the NFL

That’s my point though. He was athletic and nothing else. His arm is good but not special. Franchise QBs should have multiple elite traits. And remember traits are physical and mental, so stat lines and wins aren’t traits.For example Tua is athletic, accurate to all 3 levels of the field, and has elite pocket presence to name a few. Andrew Luck had tremendous size, was super cerebral, had elite arm strength, Cam like athleticism, and great pocket presence. 
 

Love has multiple elite traits. A big arm, elite touch, accuracy, athleticism, pocket awareness, and leadership.

[lennymoore24]

4 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Everyone can have a favorite QB as a fan you want to draft.  But your not being honest if you don’t see all the talent that Love has.

 

There is a handful of people in the world who can read  defense pre-snap, make progressive reads in less than 3 seconds, and delivery the ball accurately consistently.  There are many QBs who have amazing physical gifts.  Love has amazing physical skills.  From what I have watched, he doesn't have the whole package.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, lennymoore24 said:

 

There is a handful of people in the world who can read  defense pre-snap, make progressive reads in less than 3 seconds, and delivery the ball accurately consistently.  There are many QBs who have amazing physical gifts.  Love has amazing physical skills.  From what I have watched, he doesn't have the whole package.

Every QB coming out of college is going to have a flaw. That’s why they are rookies. Very few come in and play well as a rookie.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I am so confused by this board.  People continually criticise Brissett, which is warranted, but are willing to draft an athletic turn over machine with the hopes of him turning into Mahommes. I do not want a project. I want s team where the qb is a piece of the puzzle and not the whole puzzle. 

He had only 6 int in 2018. Go look how many manning had as a rookie.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Don’t you guys stop and think that him losing his  coach that could have a big impact on Love. That defense was also bad so he was playing from behind a lot so had to chuck it up more. There is a clear reason he regressed this year.

[lennymoore24]

For the Love defenders, how can you actually watch these highlights and blame this all on coaching or receivers. He throws out patterns over and over.  Terrible interception in end zone.  Terrible accuracy on some passes.  But you say it is all because of turnover on the coaching and players?  I don't see it. I have no favorite QB in this draft.  Honestly, I think Burrow is the only QB that is a sure fire thing.  But watch any Anthony Gordon highlights and tell me what Love does better than Gordon?  Gordon has better release, better touch, better accuracy.  He spreads the ball more and makes better reads.  Love is playing Brissett.  Again, we all have our opinions and mine is no more valid. I really don't see what you see in this guy.  But lets revisit this in 2-3.  I predict he will be an hot and cold player that drives the coaches nuts until he is replaced.

 

 

 

[Moosejawcolt]

2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

He had only 6 int in 2018. Go look how many manning had as a rookie.

Usually college qbs who throw a lot of picks in college continue that trend in the NFL.  I just have a feeling that the qbs in this draft won't amount to much

[MikeCurtis]

12 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

 

Love has multiple elite traits. A big arm, elite touch, accuracy, athleticism, pocket awareness, and leadership.

I think he has good potential

 

If we draft him at 13, I wont be upset

 

If he shows extremely well at combine, senior day, and interviews,

he wont be on the board at 13

 

LAC need a QB

 

Carolina need a QB

 

Someone behind us that need a QB to develop, that may move up before us

 

I dont see us getting to a QB that we want at 13

 

Kinlaw sounds better and better

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Defjamz26]

8 hours ago, lennymoore24 said:

For the Love defenders, how can you actually watch these highlights and blame this all on coaching or receivers. He throws out patterns over and over.  Terrible interception in end zone.  Terrible accuracy on some passes.  But you say it is all because of turnover on the coaching and players?  I don't see it. I have no favorite QB in this draft.  Honestly, I think Burrow is the only QB that is a sure fire thing.  But watch any Anthony Gordon highlights and tell me what Love does better than Gordon?  Gordon has better release, better touch, better accuracy.  He spreads the ball more and makes better reads.  Love is playing Brissett.  Again, we all have our opinions and mine is no more valid. I really don't see what you see in this guy.  But lets revisit this in 2-3.  I predict he will be an hot and cold player that drives the coaches nuts until he is replaced.

 

 

 

Because none of what you said came from actual scouting. There’s no way you watched tape and came away with him having terrible accuracy. You won’t find that in any scouting report. And his receivers (all of which were new starters) fail to separate from press coverage. And he’s not a turnover machine.

 

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/4036378/jordan-love

 

Look at his INT total all 3 years. 6 in 2017, 6 in 2018, and then 17 in 2019. You can’t tell me that that’s normal. You can’t tell me that after 2 years of taking care of the ball that he just magically became a bad decision maker. The guy tripled his INT total and you don’t want to blame coaching and talent? This guy is like a reverse Jalen Hurts. Put Love with Lincoln Riley and you’re talking about him being the 1st QB off the board.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

I think he has good potential

 

If we draft him at 13, I wont be upset

 

If he shows extremely well at combine, senior day, and interviews,

he wont be on the board at 13

 

LAC need a QB

 

Carolina need a QB

 

Someone behind us that need a QB to develop, that may move up before us

 

I dont see us getting to a QB that we want at 13

 

Kinlaw sounds better and better

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will almost bet Carolina won’t draft a QB. They just had their star linebacker retire. They still have newton under contract. Rhule is on record as saying back when he coached against Grier he thought Grier was pro ready as it gets. He also mentioned he is going to start with the defense. I bet he waits and sees what he had in quarterbacks first.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

8 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Usually college qbs who throw a lot of picks in college continue that trend in the NFL.  I just have a feeling that the qbs in this draft won't amount to much

HE didn’t Throw a lot of picks in college. He had one of the three years where he did. That’s when everything around him left.

[MikeCurtis]

29 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I will almost bet Carolina won’t draft a QB. They just had their star linebacker retire. They still have newton under contract. Rhule is on record as saying back when he coached against Grier he thought Grier was pro ready as it gets. He also mentioned he is going to start with the defense. I bet he waits and sees what he had in quarterbacks first.

Ultimately you may be right Chloe about Cam

 

but there is a great deal of stuff like this out there

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2862054-nfl-trade-rumors-cam-newton-highly-unlikely-to-play-for-panthers-in-2020

I think with all the turmoil that CAR has.... the new coach will bring in his people. QB is usually step 1

 

Cam is free falling

 

[waittilnextyear]

11 hours ago, lennymoore24 said:

For the Love defenders, how can you actually watch these highlights and blame this all on coaching or receivers. He throws out patterns over and over.  Terrible interception in end zone.  Terrible accuracy on some passes.  But you say it is all because of turnover on the coaching and players?  I don't see it. I have no favorite QB in this draft.  Honestly, I think Burrow is the only QB that is a sure fire thing.  But watch any Anthony Gordon highlights and tell me what Love does better than Gordon?  Gordon has better release, better touch, better accuracy.  He spreads the ball more and makes better reads.  Love is playing Brissett.  Again, we all have our opinions and mine is no more valid. I really don't see what you see in this guy.  But lets revisit this in 2-3.  I predict he will be an hot and cold player that drives the coaches nuts until he is replaced.

 

 

 

 

  I see decent ability in this "lowlight" piece. He wasn't particulary accurate or special when throwing on the move was he?
 Just going by this,  i didn't see enough here to push him up the draft board.
Ability wise he is no Marcus Mariotta. Or is he?

[chad72]

Nice discussions everyone. I for one am not going to get riled up one way or the other. After watching the UCLA and Oregon State tape for Gordon, I found several questionable throws that defenders dropped INTs on that I felt would have been a death sentence in the NFL but then he also threw 9 TDs and did very well vs zone coverage.  Some say he can be coached out of playing hero ball or throwing bad ones into traffic, I am leery about it. One can say the same about selective tape for Jordan Love as well. The guys in charge, I am sure they watch more than 1 game tape or just highlight reels, or just get enamored with 1 year numbers, I will be happy with whatever they decide. I like Gordon as well but I like Love a little more, for the record. Both will have to be coached out of certain tendencies, IMO.

 

Hey, the first pick in the 1998 draft threw 28 INTs, and thankfully Jameis Winston broke that with 30 INTs this year.   The 6th pick in the 2019 draft (Daniel Jones) was a turnover machine as well. So, even the highest rated QB, who likely will be going to an inferior team will feel the pressure and will make mistakes. Guys like Mahomes, they do not come around often, but you don't want to miss out on someone that has close to his upside either. No matter who we draft at QB, we anticipate him sitting for a year to work out his flaws. Even Mahomes had to sit out a year. The Chiefs had the luxury, we have the same as well, IMO. 

 

All I do not care for is a WR at No.13 because that will not give us good bang for the draft position in a deep WR class, and I elaborated my case in another thread.

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

I will almost bet Carolina won’t draft a QB. They just had their star linebacker retire. They still have newton under contract. Rhule is on record as saying back when he coached against Grier he thought Grier was pro ready as it gets. He also mentioned he is going to start with the defense. I bet he waits and sees what he had in quarterbacks first.

These are my thoughts as well.  Luke K.  retiring throws a new wrinkle out there for them and Rhule really likes Grier.  I can see them holding off on a QB.  On the surface it would seem to make sense that the LAC draft a QB but if somehow Brady winds up there they might try to go in a different direction instead of QB and try to win now.  Both situations could work out in our favor.  A long way to go of course.    

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

Ultimately you may be right Chloe about Cam

 

but there is a great deal of stuff like this out there

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2862054-nfl-trade-rumors-cam-newton-highly-unlikely-to-play-for-panthers-in-2020

I think with all the turmoil that CAR has.... the new coach will bring in his people. QB is usually step 1

 

Cam is free falling

 

Eventually yes. But I won’t be surprised if he waits a year so he can access the team properly. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2856394-long-overlooked-utah-state-qb-jordan-love-cant-hide-from-stardom-anymore.amp.html

[Valpo2004]

Based on his game by game stats here are my impressions.  

 

He folded against some of the better teams.  I understand he doesn't have the talent around him to pull out a win in these games, but I expect a good future NFL QB to have a decent game where he would at least post a stat line that would show that they are alone willing the offense to moving.

 

Just doesn't happen.  

 

Against LSU - 15/30 for 130 yards 0 TD's 3 INT's

 

Again I get that he probably had to play hero ball here but I would like to see some hero ball that is actually successful

 

Against BYU

 

29/49 394 yds 1 TD 3 INT

 

His team was down only by 7 at the half.   So you can't excuse his 3 picks on him having to force things.  He chose to force things. 

 

On top of that in games that are competitive.

 

Against Wake forest.  A game that I will note Utah State was leading at the half  (No excuses)

 

33/48 416 yds, 3 TD's and 3 Int's.  Given that this was a 3 point game his int's probably cost his team the game here.  

 

On top of that he had an RB that had 141 yards on 19 attempts for 7.1 yds/carry.  

 

Against Nevada which they won handily.  

 

13/31 169 yards 1 TD 1 Int.  In this game he had 2 RB's over 8 yards per carry, another at 6.2 yards per carry, Defense chipped in 2 Int's and he had a kick return for a TD.   Who the heck throws 31 times with your run game and defense destroying them like this?  

 

To be fair towards the end of the season and the bowl game he had some pretty strong games.

 

But I don't think I can look at this and say "he was on a bad team".  To me the best construction I can put on this is a guy who started believing his own hype, called his own number far more often than he should and endangered the ball far more than he should have in order to impress the scouts.

 

To be fair if that is the case it can be corrected and it does seem like he might have done that late in the season, in fact he has some statistically solid to good games towards the end of the season after his team was destroyed by BYU.

 

But at the same time at the beginning of the season he never seemed to lift his team to victory and based on the stats it seems like he might have called his own number or forced some things that actually cost his team the victory.   This does raise questions about his maturity which I think he has to answer.  

 

 

 

[Valpo2004]

Also I want to note something else.  

 

I don't think the talent around him should be used against Fromm.  Tua is on a loaded team and so is Trevor Laurence who everyone has already crowded as the #1 pick in 2021.  

 

Shoot Tua has 3 receivers who are projected to go in the 1st round.  

 

And quite frankly Burrow's team probably isn't lacking for talent either.  If you want to hold the abilities of his teammates against Fromm I think you should hold it against those others as well.  

 

My biggest worry with Fromm is that he doesn't have the zip to put it in tight windows.  

 

Tua there is actually a little concern about arm strength but the bigger worry is if he's going to survive in the NFL.  Dude has had a lot of injuries for a QB playing behind an Alabama OL.  On top of that he's also on the small side which helps lead to the impression that those injuries are more than just bad luck.  

[chad72]

28 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

Tua there is actually a little concern about arm strength but the bigger worry is if he's going to survive in the NFL.  Dude has had a lot of injuries for a QB playing behind an Alabama OL.  On top of that he's also on the small side which helps lead to the impression that those injuries are more than just bad luck.  

 

It is a valid point, which is also one of the bigger concerns about Anthony Gordon, who is pretty much the same size but played in defense-deficient Pac-12, IMO, unlike Tua. 

 

I think @MPStack was one of the ones to raise the same valid point about Gordon and Tua as well, if I remember right.

[twfish]

50 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

Based on his game by game stats here are my impressions.  

 

He folded against some of the better teams.  I understand he doesn't have the talent around him to pull out a win in these games, but I expect a good future NFL QB to have a decent game where he would at least post a stat line that would show that they are alone willing the offense to moving.

 

Just doesn't happen.  

 

Against LSU - 15/30 for 130 yards 0 TD's 3 INT's

 

Again I get that he probably had to play hero ball here but I would like to see some hero ball that is actually successful

 

Against BYU

 

29/49 394 yds 1 TD 3 INT

 

His team was down only by 7 at the half.   So you can't excuse his 3 picks on him having to force things.  He chose to force things. 

 

On top of that in games that are competitive.

 

Against Wake forest.  A game that I will note Utah State was leading at the half  (No excuses)

 

33/48 416 yds, 3 TD's and 3 Int's.  Given that this was a 3 point game his int's probably cost his team the game here.  

 

On top of that he had an RB that had 141 yards on 19 attempts for 7.1 yds/carry.  

 

Against Nevada which they won handily.  

 

13/31 169 yards 1 TD 1 Int.  In this game he had 2 RB's over 8 yards per carry, another at 6.2 yards per carry, Defense chipped in 2 Int's and he had a kick return for a TD.   Who the heck throws 31 times with your run game and defense destroying them like this?  

 

To be fair towards the end of the season and the bowl game he had some pretty strong games.

 

But I don't think I can look at this and say "he was on a bad team".  To me the best construction I can put on this is a guy who started believing his own hype, called his own number far more often than he should and endangered the ball far more than he should have in order to impress the scouts.

 

To be fair if that is the case it can be corrected and it does seem like he might have done that late in the season, in fact he has some statistically solid to good games towards the end of the season after his team was destroyed by BYU.

 

But at the same time at the beginning of the season he never seemed to lift his team to victory and based on the stats it seems like he might have called his own number or forced some things that actually cost his team the victory.   This does raise questions about his maturity which I think he has to answer.  

 

 

 

Here's you problem, you are scouting stats not film. With a better supporting cast last year he beat BYU throwing 3 TD and no picks. You say you understand he has no talent around him but still expect him to put up good stat lines.... How when his receivers don't get separation and the o-line couldn't stop a middle aged man from getting to a buffet... I really suggest you watch more film and you will see a guy running for his life play in play out and none of his receivers can get seperated. It's not an instance of he cant see or throw open a guy, they just aren't getting open so its either throw up a 50/50 ball or take a sack.

 

 3,208 yards 65.8 comp%  28 TD 5 INT these where his numbers in 2018 and only receiving 8 sacks.

 

3,085 yards 60.6 comp% 17TD 16 INT while literally doubling the sacks.

 

His 2017 season was very consistent with is 2018. So you're down playing his lack of playmakers and losing his head coach significantly.

[twfish]

 

This is a much better game to make a decision on him. It's not his best game and it's not his worst game. OP posted the very first game and here is his last game of the year and it does contrast. You can clearly see him making pro reads at the LOS pre snap and you can see him going through his progressions. This also showcases how terrible his line was and how little his receivers where open. At the 8 minute mark it really shows his arm talent and athleticism on the throw.

[stitches]

 

 

Here are all his interceptions on the year. 

 

I can categorize them in several categories:

-poor mechanics/footwork leading to underthrows(the first one in the video is example of that here, as well the one against LSU - Stingley, there are also several opposite hash throws where he relies too much on his armstrength and the ball floats on him). This is what Frank and the rest of the coaching staff are for and why I don't expect him to start right away - he needs to clean up his footwork 

-not seeing dropping defenders down the middle... this just needs to be improved, Luck had some of those too... IMO this is his biggest problem, his decisionmaking/not seeing defenders dropping in coverage. He makes some "wth were you thinking" throws? I commented on several of those when they were happening in old posts here you can search for ... he just has some of those that I get back to again and again and again and I still cannot figure out what he saw to make him make that throw and how he didn't see the defender. His film is littered with this types of throws, not just those interceptions, he would have one of those almost every game. This to me is the second reason he needs to sit and learn.

-receivers fault/bad luck(last one in the bowl game and 2 of the Wyoming tipped balls, last BYU throw where he gets hit as he throws it, etc.)

-forcing it(a couple of the LSU INTs are good examples + one of the BYU ones + several others)  

-opposite hash to the sideline throws - I cannot be completely certain here about the culprit, but he has a few of those. On some of those he seems to be trusting his arm too much/underrating the defender's ability to make up ground + mixed in inconsistent mechanics. But on others they are quick reads that the defenders seem to undercut and be waiting on. No idea why. Maybe he has a tell of some sort/staring the receiver? Look at the first Wake Forest INT(0:13), you can see better hint at what might be wrong at 3:40, he makes very similar throw/INT and it gets pick-6ed again. It seems like this is a thing they run a lot, and it also seems like he's staring his receiver down - there is no attempt to disguise what's happening, he immediately flips his hips and gets ready to make the throw and the defender just undercuts it... his receivers don't help coming back to the ball either... 

 

If I have to summarize - IMO the biggest issues with him are - 1. poor mechanics/footwork on some throws and over-reliance on his arm, 2. decisionmaking/not seeing dropping LBs into coverage... this HAS TO improve, 3. staring down his receiver

 

I want to point out that the last one happens a lot on plays that are supposed to be quick hits. He does that one on slants too. To me this is the easiest one to fix and takes just a bit more discipline and coaching because it seems to be an issue mainly when he knows he has to make that specific throw and it needs to be a quick throw. Otherwise there are many cases where you can see him scanning the field, making progression reads, moving/holding safeties with his eyes. I do NOT think his staring down receivers is the same type of staring down that Brissett does for example. 

[Freenyfan102]

On 1/17/2020 at 8:03 AM, Defjamz26 said:

Because none of what you said came from actual scouting. There’s no way you watched tape and came away with him having terrible accuracy. You won’t find that in any scouting report. And his receivers (all of which were new starters) fail to separate from press coverage. And he’s not a turnover machine.

 

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/4036378/jordan-love

 

Look at his INT total all 3 years. 6 in 2017, 6 in 2018, and then 17 in 2019. You can’t tell me that that’s normal. You can’t tell me that after 2 years of taking care of the ball that he just magically became a bad decision maker. The guy tripled his INT total and you don’t want to blame coaching and talent? This guy is like a reverse Jalen Hurts. Put Love with Lincoln Riley and you’re talking about him being the 1st QB off the board.

 In 2017 he threw 8 td and 6 int........ 2018 he threw for 32 TD 6 int then this year he is 20 TD to 17 int. Most of his int is because of him. He throws it to his first read no matter what. He is a one read QB and we don't have the personal or the coaches to really coach him up. Look at JB been under Coach Reich for two years and didn't show us anything this year. Even when he was under coach Chuck he was brought in because of Ballard and did not show us anything then either. I know the excuses that are going to come out in 2017 because it was because it was Chuck fault and he was a bad coach. I guess people just want to draft the Next Rex  Grossman.

[stitches]

4 hours ago, Freenyfan102 said:

 In 2017 he threw 8 td and 6 int........ 2018 he threw for 32 TD 6 int then this year he is 20 TD to 17 int. Most of his int is because of him. He throws it to his first read no matter what. He is a one read QB and we don't have the personal or the coaches to really coach him up. Look at JB been under Coach Reich for two years and didn't show us anything this year. Even when he was under coach Chuck he was brought in because of Ballard and did not show us anything then either. I know the excuses that are going to come out in 2017 because it was because it was Chuck fault and he was a bad coach. I guess people just want to draft the Next Rex  Grossman.

I won't respond the the other nonsense posted in this post because it's off-topic, but the bolded is complete and utter horse manure... He has plenty of tape of him going through 2-3 read progressions, moving safeties, holding them with his eyes while waiting for routes to develop, etc. You've clearly not watched much or any of him. 

[twfish]

We've got videos posted of good games and bad games. Bad throws but how about some good throws? 

 

 

[stitches]

3 hours ago, twfish said:

We've got videos posted of good games and bad games. Bad throws but how about some good throws? 

 

 

[Johany]

Kelvin Hayden legendary a former American football cornerback

[stitches]

 

[Defjamz26]

6 hours ago, stitches said:

 

Came in to post that Brugler tweet but you beat me to it lol.