Week 4 impressions: Brissett

[aaron11]

Just now, GoatBeard said:

Maybe, just maybe, this stuff isnt nearly as important as you guys think? 

or maybe it is?  when has Jacoby been the reason we beat a good team?  have we even beat a good team with him?

 

Look at the Qbs that are actually good and its easy to answer those questions.  

[Nickster]

15 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

I agree.  Game 1 was legit ours with even average production from special teams.

True, but game two was a loss until a 55 yd Wilkins scamper.  They even out.  The season will show JBs worth, on that I agree with Chloe.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, Nickster said:

True, but game two was a loss until a 55 yd Wilkins scamper.  They even out.  The season will show JBs worth, on that I agree with Chloe.

Omg just because it was a run doesn’t take anything away from the win. They are all getting paid to do their job. Runs are just as important a pass.

[Goatface Killah]

Just now, aaron11 said:

or maybe it is?  when has Jacoby been the reason we beat a good team?  have we even beat a good team with him?

 

Look at the Qbs that are actually good and its easy to answer those questions.  

And it wont matter if I point out his two wins because you'll come back with the inevitable "they werent good teams" let's go around in a circle and blah blah blah blah blah

 

He has played well, everyone who has been watching is saying that except you. 

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

or maybe it is?  when has Jacoby been the reason we beat a good team?  have we even beat a good team with him?

 

Look at the Qbs that are actually good and its easy to answer those questions.  

He won us that chargers game but Vinny had to go and crap his pants. There was a 3rd and 22 on that last drive. He hit TY for for 18 yards then hit funchess for 8 on a 4th down.

[aaron11]

Just now, GoatBeard said:

He has played well, everyone who has been watching is saying that except you. 

 

actually a lot of people agree with me.  didnt read any of supermans posts i guess?  i see a the same few people defending him every week, and more that agree with me.  

[Goatface Killah]

1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

Omg just because it was a run doesn’t take anything away from the win. They are all getting paid to do their job. Runs are just as important a pass.

Let's face it, some people just want to % on athletes. It's what people do. So and so sucks. Hes trash. Meanwhile the man is leading the national football league in TD passes thru 4 weeks without playing well. Which actually seems more impressive to me. Imagine if he played well?

 

They got a PFF subscription and some access to all 22 and they play football scout online for fun.

Just now, aaron11 said:

actually a lot of people agree with me.  didnt read any of supermans posts i guess?  i see a the same few people defending him every week, and more that agree with me.  

I wouldn't say many. And I wouldn't say Superman agrees with you. He seems to give him credit for what hes done, he just doesnt think he will develop into a pro bowl QB necessarily.

[aaron11]

Just now, Chloe6124 said:

He won us that chargers game 

no he didnt, Mack had like 170 yards in that game on the ground.  if we had won it would have been because of the running game

 

and we didnt actually win either, laughable answer to what i asked

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, aaron11 said:

actually a lot of people agree with me.  didnt read any of supermans posts i guess?  i see a the same few people defending him every week, and more that agree with me.  

Superman’s posts are not close to your posts. Superman has been fair.  Superman has pointed out where he needs to improve not saying he can’t improve.

[aaron11]

2 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

 

 He seems to give him credit for what hes done,

  i said hes mediocre not trash.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

no he didnt, Mack had like 170 yards in that game on the ground.  if we had won it would have been because of the running game

 

and we didnt actually win either, laughable answer to what i asked

So you ignore the 3rd and 22 pass and the funchess 4th down pass on the last drive. He also threw the TD in the end zone before the two point conversion. You seem to not like facts. You have to be a troll. Vinny s kicks lost us that game period. Or the Ebron drop.

[aaron11]

3 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Superman’s posts are not close to your posts. Superman has been fair.  Superman has pointed out where he needs to improve not saying he can’t improve.

anyone can improve, its a matter of if we think he will or not

[aaron11]

Just now, Chloe6124 said:

 You have to be a troll.

i think you are a homer and a troll yourself.  calling him mediocre isnt trolling, that means average to maybe a little below.  thats what i think he is 

 

you bring up luck and Peyton only winning one super bowl and are happier to have Jacoby now.  i think thats trolling the rest of us

[aaron11]

you have said several times you are glad to not have a top teir QB anymore so we can build a complete team now.  

 

thats ridiculous though, the two are not exclusive.  its not like Lucks contract was hurting the team, we still have tons of cap space even with his contract still there as dead money  

[Goatface Killah]

Just now, Chloe6124 said:

So you ignore the 3rd and 22 pass and the funchess 4th down pass on the last drive. He also threw the TD in the end zone before the two point conversion. You seem to not like facts. You have to be a troll.

That's what I mean by situationally.

 

In big moments, he has came up big repeatedly.

 

My favorite drive of his didnt even result in points. The final drive against Atlanta was about as good as it gets for a QB. The team was reeling, I believe we lose that game if he doesnt step up in that moment. We were dead in the water. He burns over 4 minutes off the clock and we win. This was right after he led us on another impressive drive right before that to keep the 2 score lead, which was crucial. That's leadership. 

 

There is no doubt he won us that game with it. How good Atlanta is is another story. Doesnt make it less impressive to me. It was an opportunity for him to show his metal as a leader and he did exactly what we needed him to do. 

 

He didnt use his superior ability to read defenses, because he didnt have it. He used his toughness, resourcefulness and leadership. And those traits might even be more important than hitting your 5th option on the backside occasionally. Those things impact every play and every situation.

 

QBs are not a collection of skills. They are a package of traits. Jacoby has a great package of traits he brings to the table.

[aaron11]

1 minute ago, GoatBeard said:

He didnt use his superior ability to read defenses, because he didnt have it.

yeah i guess i just value that more than toughness.  i think hes good enough to go 8-8 or so with a good team if that makes you happy 

[Goatface Killah]

3 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

you have said several times you are glad to not have a top teir QB anymore so we can build a complete team now.  

 

thats ridiculous though, the two are not exclusive.  its not like Lucks contract was hurting the team, we still have tons of cap space even with his contract still there as dead money  

No I never said that.

 

I said I was tired of being a one man show.

 

Not even close to the same thing.

 

 

[aaron11]

Just now, GoatBeard said:

No I never said that.

 

I said I was tired of being a one man show.

 

Not even close to the same thing.

 

 

that wasnt directed at you, it was to the person that has said it several times now

[TrueBlue4ever]

I’m in the camp of Jacoby has been successful this year and the o-line has played extremely well for us. Really, the next 2 games are going to provide us an accurate measuring stick of where Jacoby and this entire football team is at. Not having T.Y. was a derailer last week. I’m pulling for him to continue to get better each and every game. Side note, can’t wait to see if the Maniac returns this week, early injury report due out soon!

[Imgrandojji]

24 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

  i said hes mediocre not trash.

in this league,mediocre IS trash

[Fisticuffs111]

50 minutes ago, Superman said:

That's fine, we all want a strong, deep, balanced roster. But historically, if you don't have a QB who can make plays consistently, you need a top five defense to win a SB. I don't think it's easier and more sustainable to build a top five defense than it is to find a playmaking QB; I think there are more teams with playmaking QBs and bad defenses than the other way around, especially over the last 5-7 years.

 

50 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

It's not hard to project us as a top eight team, but that will take a lot of the young guys performing, which again is not a given. The defense is far from being top ten, statistically and situationally, but again that's with a lot of injuries and young players. I still think we're another draft class away, which probably means two years before the defense is impressive. 

Yeah, building an elite defense isn't at all an easy feat in its own right. To make a really simple example; the common thought seems to be that the next step in building an elite defense is drafting an elite DL, pass rusher, etc. But those guys also generally go in the top 10 just like these QB prospects do, an area we're unlikely to be at in the near future. Not trying to say anything about wanting to trade up for a QB, just that we'd likely have to trade up for an elite DL/pass rush prospect too.

Then, like you mentioned, we have to hope for development and health. And those aren't a given. I mean, we're seeing the latter come into effect right now.

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

It's zone on both sides of the field, and that's obvious presnap based on the defensive alignment. Then, right before the snap, both outside corners fall back to give up a large cushion.

 

There is no first open guy on the left, although if JB pump fakes he has a shot at the underneath guy (playmaking). He should have come off his first read, because, he has a much better option on the backside of the play, with plenty of space to protect the ball and his receiver.

 

If the play was called as a half field read, then again, that says something about the way the staff is handling JB, which speaks to his attributes as an NFL QB.

 

Absolutely should have come off the first read here.  The staring down into a zone almost insures that Doyle is not going to be open.

 

Yes if JB is being coached on half field reads bacause he can't read the whole field, he is not good enough.  Sometimes they bring guys along with this patty cake stuff, but JB has been around too long to have to do this.  

 

This is why I think we are in trouble with him.

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

I agree, but at the same time I don't think anyone saw a 5:1 TD-INT rate in the first 4 games

 

Mariotta has an infinite TD to INT rate because he has no INT.  And IMO he sucks.  He also has 7 TDs.  He holds the Titans back.

[MCurtis32]

If most of you had your way, you would have drafted RJ3. by the end of this year, everyone will be looking into the draft for another non defense reading athelete. I know its fasionable to have one of these type QB's, but it doesn't work out in the end. Russell Wilson is the only exception. The exception is...... He can read defenses.

[Nickster]

46 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Omg just because it was a run doesn’t take anything away from the win. They are all getting paid to do their job. Runs are just as important a pass.

Didn't say that just said the shoula woulda coulda works both ways this season.  AS much as we SHOULD HAVE WON game 1, WESHOULLD A LOST game 2.

[stitches]

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

19 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

I’m in the camp of Jacoby has been successful this year and the o-line has played extremely well for us. Really, the next 2 games are going to provide us an accurate measuring stick of where Jacoby and this entire football team is at. Not having T.Y. was a derailer last week. I’m pulling for him to continue to get better each and every game. Side note, can’t wait to see if the Maniac returns this week, early injury report due out soon!

Looks like TY might be our again Sunday. I say after the bye when defense has gotten healthy and TY us back is when we really see what the team has.

[aaron11]

15 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Mariotta has an infinite TD to INT rate because he has no INT.  And IMO he sucks.  He also has 7 TDs.  He holds the Titans back.

Jacboys interception numbers are pretty good, but half the starters in the league have 2 or less right now.  im surprised that so many still have zero after 4 games 

 

the raiders D had no picks all year until that one, offenses must making them harder to come by 

[BLUEx40]

Brett Favre threw it hard just sayin......

[Nickster]

12 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

Jacboys interception numbers are pretty good, but half the starters in the league have 2 or less right now.  im surprised that so many still have zero after 4 games 

 

the raiders D had no picks all year until that one, offenses must making them harder to come by 

 

All kinds of coaches are finally, belatedly going the Belechikian route with the short stufff.  The question is can they stretch the field?  The threat to stretch the field is often sufficient. I can't remember how the Pats exactly did things pre Moss.  I remember they had an elite running game and Brady didn't often have to do much, but I'd guess there was downfield threats somewhere.  SInce Moss, they've always had the threat.  Gronk, etc.

 

I think the short passing game is the way to go, but it is predicated on other things.  ie. run game and/or downfield 15-30 yd threat.  NE would often have tons of time and wait for long crossers to come open after all kinds of rubs and chunked people that way.  

 

Anyway, my point about low picks is that lots of teams have abandoned the long passing game that the Colts and Manning and Luck until last year ran.  That is why INTs are down.  D's are also playing a lot of cover 2 and truly going to the bend don't break philosophy rather than try8ing todominate with sacks and stuff.  The cover 2 theroretically is much more effective with the top taken off of the D by the back of the endzone.

 

Incidentally, the defensive collapse is a direct result of no Hooker in my opinion.  A rare talent that had a lid on the D no matter where the ball was spotted.

[Nickster]

21 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Looks like TY might be our again Sunday. I say after the bye when defense has gotten healthy and TY us back is when we really see what the team has.

 

I agree.  We should all but forfeit at KC and try to get healthy.  IT's a marathon.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

16 hours ago, egg said:

 

How are the stats "skewed"?

 

They don't look right to you because it is not what you expected to see. Right?

 

 

 

"Skewed"

 

 

[Imgrandojji]

I think competence on the short stuff will lead to confidence in the deeper throws in good time.  It's not like Brissett doesn't have the arm for it.

 

Short ball offense is high percentage.  It's what you do while you're still trying to put your offensive unit together.  There's nothing sinful about living on the short pass.  A lot of successful QBs have done it.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

19 hours ago, shastamasta said:

Colts also played in a monsoon in PHI in game 3...which skewed Luck's stats.

 

Monsoon? It wasn't even raining.

[Nickster]

Just now, Imgrandojji said:

I think competence on the short stuff will lead to confidence in the deeper throws in good time.  It's not like Brissett doesn't have the arm for it.

 

To read or not to read?  That is the question.

 

To me it's really the only question that is important about the dude.  You can't scheme people open all game, every game.

 

Based on what I see right now, I'm going with probably not.

[Nickster]

7 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

I think competence on the short stuff will lead to confidence in the deeper throws in good time.  It's not like Brissett doesn't have the arm for it.

 

 

Look, the line sucked for Luck until AC got back, Smith and Glow were established on the right, and Q adjusted a little. In the first few games last year,  the line was as bad as it ever had been.  

 

Weather, etc. none of it really matters.  It was the line that allowed Luck to have the opportunity to be the stud he was last year in the last 10 games.

 

EDIT: Supposed to be in response to the Luck talk.

[Imgrandojji]

If Brissett wasn't good at reading, I doubt he'd have achieved red zone efficiency he has.

 

Again, this is an area where we're not in a great position to judge because  we can only really judge based on the outcome of the play and the outcome of any given play is almost never entirely dependent on what the QB does.

[Nickster]

8 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

"Skewed"

 

 

 

What were the results of the other 35% for both guys?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

6 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

I think competence on the short stuff will lead to confidence in the deeper throws in good time.  It's not like Brissett doesn't have the arm for it.

 

Short ball offense is high percentage.  It's what you do while you're still trying to put your offensive unit together.  There's nothing sinful about living on the short pass.  A lot of successful QBs have done it.

If your getting six or seven yards each time your down the field quick. Raiders did that all game and it won them the game. People are just mad because the game isn’t exciting enough for them.

 

Dont expect a big game this week either because it looks like TY might miss the game again. Unless Cain and Campbell show up KC is probably going to be able to stop the run pretty easy.

[Imgrandojji]

Just now, Nickster said:

 

What were the results of the other 35% for both guys?

Similar completion %, about 40%, Luck threw 1 more interception.