Week 4 impressions: Brissett

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

25 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Actually  he doesn't  have the chemistry  with the wrs on the long throws other than maybe hilton.

Which would be expected since Hilton is a veteran and they have already played a season together. Your mixing in a guy who learned two weeks before the season  he was going to be the starter with two rookie WR. It will come. Nick talked about Cain and that today in the presser.

[shasta519]

16 minutes ago, Stephen said:

That win thing is pointless. If it is at 2 wins I def see us beating  that.

 

I don't know what it was for the season...I am talking about after 4 games. 

[stitches]

10 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Right now it’s going to be close. What could slow it down is if we start getting more running TD. 

 

8 minutes ago, Stephen said:

It depends. He has been throwing  2 to three tds a game. If his chemistry  with the wrs continues  to improve  and he starts hitting  on deep bombs to hilton, Campbell  and cain then he could very well throw over 40 tds.

 

Damn...  it was ME that was supposed to not have realistic and fair expectations for Brissett... 

[Stephen]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

Brissett got about 100% of QB1 snaps in training camp and pre-season. Unlike Luck did last year. Again... this is NOT about the stats. Watch him play and watch the type of throws he makes and the types of throws he doesn't make and the reason for it. We can actually see those things on the tape. We can see him locking into his first read while huge TD throws on the other side of the field are available, we can see him missing anticipation throws that he needs to make, etc. We can actually have a pretty good idea of whether the type of performance he's putting in now is because he was thrusted into the starting lineup 2 weeks before the season started(even though for all intents and purposes he was QB1 for the Colts since March), or because of the way he sees the field or because of things he's got to improve on going forward. 

Brissett  will get better.  Luck would occasionally  lock on to hilton. He's  nowhere close to his ceiling  and is still learning  the game 

[Stephen]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

 

 

Damn... and here I was thinking it was ME that was supposed to not have realistic and fair expectations for Brissett... 

I mean three things can happen. He regresses and goes from 40td pace to 25 td pace.

He stays on course and throws 40tds exactly. 

He improves and throws  more than 40tds.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Here is the Sirriani interview. Lots of stuff about JB and stuff on Cain and his chemistry with JB.

 

https://www.colts.com/video/nick-sirianni-looking-for-continued-production

[Goatface Killah]

13 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Another strawman on your part. I'm not judging him as an elite QB. I'm talking about the things a QB leading a good offense will have to do, especially in the playoffs. You apparently just want to talk about his completion percentage and act like that equals good QBing. 

Completion percentage, TD-INT Ratio, 3rd down, 4th down, redzone, consistency.......I think I have a little more than that.

 

Or how about the fact he has done enough to be 4-0 or at worst 3-1, despite playing from behind most of the time, dealing with a very young roster, injury problems at receiver, dropped passes, poor defensive play, horrific special teams play.........it sure beats "well he missed Deon Cain on a play, and Parris Campbell on another play"......he will probably never be truly elite because he cant make those reads right now and doesnt always make the best possible decision....... At least in my eyes.

 

Agree to disagree

 

 

 

[El Potro]

2 hours ago, Myles said:

Not to harp, but if you are using both 2017 and 2019 number combined, you won't mind looking at the improvement between the 2.

 

                 2017                         2019

Cmp%      58%                            65%

TD%         2.8%                           7.2%

INT%        1.5%                           1.4%

Yards/G    193                             227

Sacks          52                              6

Rating       81                                102

QBR           41                                59

 

I agree he's improved. It'd be horrible if he hadn't after a year & a half in the system. Those stats for '19 are skewed at the moment though. It's only been 4 games. Let's wait it out & see if he regresses or improves. 

[Imgrandojji]

3 hours ago, Myles said:

I only use the 3-1 thing because the first game would have been a win without the 7 points Adam missed.  I agree with you some though.  I've seen people say we could be 4-0 because we should have beaten the Raiders.  I'm not on that wagon.   

We are 2-2 and tied for the division lead.  All the games have been close, so I guess we could be 0-4 or 4-0.  But we are 2-2, soon to be 2-3 but with a much easier schedule after the bye.   Brissett currently gives us the best chance to win, so I am on board.

I agree.  Game 1 was legit ours with even average production from special teams.

[Creekside]

1 hour ago, 912Colts said:

Those stats for '19 are skewed at the moment though. 

 

How are the stats "skewed"?

 

They don't look right to you because it is not what you expected to see. Right?

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Something that has impressed me with JB is pocket awareness. I thought we would get more sacks because he wasnt as aware in the pocket as luck. We are fourth in the league on % of sacks compared to drop backs. Right now we are on pace for 24 sacks. That is pretty impressive. Only six more then last year.

[Imgrandojji]

4 hours ago, stitches said:

 

 

Damn...  it was ME that was supposed to not have realistic and fair expectations for Brissett... 

I don't think he'll actually hit 40, but I think he's got such a headstart he may manage to get close, especially if his red zone efficiency isn't a COMPLETE fluke.

 

Right now 30 TDs  looks quite doable even with some regression to the mean.  If he manages to achieve less than 15 picks to go with 30TDs that's going to be a top 10 season, and he's well on pace for both of those accomplishments through 1/4 of the season

[Imgrandojji]

1 hour ago, egg said:

 

How are the stats "skewed"?

 

They don't look right to you because it is not what you expected to see. Right?

 

 

I don't think any of us expected to see Brissett improving at quite this rate.  I actually don't blame some people for being skeptical and expecting at least some regression. 

 

Heck, I expect a bit of regression, if only because you have to do funky math like counting 2017 numbers or ignoring YAC to keep Brissett out of the top 10 QBs in the NFL.  Dpn't think he's quite on that level.  But he has been a very pleasant surprise for me.

 

That said, there comes a point where you stop being able to look at facts you  don't like and find ways to say "wait! That doesn't count!"  At a certain point the stats are the facts and the facts are the truth.  IMHO that's gonna start happening around week 8.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Someone asked whether he could keep up the 40 TD pace. If the defense steps up and makes more stops and creates turnovers it’s possible he could break that. He will get more chances if the defense can make stops.

[ColtsBlueFL]

13 hours ago, aaron11 said:

Andy reid is probably the best QB guru still coaching

 

 Bruce Arians says hi...

[ColtsBlueFL]

12 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

This play you can defiantly see where Brissett missed Cain. I don’t think though it’s because he is bad or can’t improve. This is a trust issue with Cain. He has to build the trust that if he throws the ball to that spot Cain is going to be there. It requires throwing it before Cain gets there. That is the anticipation and trust JB will need to gain from his WR. I don’t think this is something that can’t be improved on. This is something that will come with more chemistry with Cain and the WR. My gripe is with people who say he can’t improve.

 

 

 

Not on board...

 

11 hours ago, Superman said:

 

This is a more involved problem than just 'he didn't see Cain,' though. He never looked to the right. He locked in on his primary read, didn't go through any progressions, and attempted a low percentage pass when he probably had a completion on the other side of the field. 

 

He had (essentially trips right. on the left, there was drop to cover 3, and (Under/Over) bracket coverage on the receiver to the right.  It seems JB is on progression scheme and he is to throw to the first open guy on the left ( 3 potential targets).

 

On the right, there is zone. Defenders are reading QB head/eyes. JB is not looking that way. I'll bet if he did the coverage would tighten up over there... and the coverages and look/results on the left may well be different, too.

 

Quote

I also completely disagree with this having anything to do with trusting Cain. He threw Cain a deep ball into double coverage last week. He didn't know Cain was going to be open, he didn't go through his progressions, and never knew that it was an option.

 

And ultimately, if the QB doesn't trust a receiver, that receiver shouldn't be on the field on third down, period. 

 

This is something that JB must improve on. Time will tell whether he can/will. 

 

This is closer to  my theory.  I see it as above.

[Superman]

9 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

He had (essentially trips right. on the left, there was drop to cover 3, and (Under/Over) bracket coverage on the receiver to the right.  It seems JB is on progression scheme and he is to throw to the first open guy on the left ( 3 potential targets).

 

On the right, there is zone. Defenders are reading QB head/eyes. JB is not looking that way. I'll bet if he did the coverage would tighten up over there... and the coverages and look/results on the left may well be different, too.

 

It's zone on both sides of the field, and that's obvious presnap based on the defensive alignment. Then, right before the snap, both outside corners fall back to give up a large cushion.

 

There is no first open guy on the left, although if JB pump fakes he has a shot at the underneath guy (playmaking). He should have come off his first read, because, he has a much better option on the backside of the play, with plenty of space to protect the ball and his receiver.

 

If the play was called as a half field read, then again, that says something about the way the staff is handling JB, which speaks to his attributes as an NFL QB.

[Superman]

12 hours ago, egg said:

 

How are the stats "skewed"?

 

They don't look right to you because it is not what you expected to see. Right?

 

Because it's a small sample size in which the team is throwing a lot more in the red zone than they are expected to throw over the course of the season. If that's their normal pass/run ratio in the red zone over a larger sample size, great. Right now, it's probably skewed in favor of the pass, which has contributed to JB having 10 TDs.

 

And that's not a knock on JB at all. Just identifying a potential anomaly that will likely normalize as time goes on.

[El Potro]

12 hours ago, egg said:

 

How are the stats "skewed"?

 

They don't look right to you because it is not what you expected to see. Right?

 

 

Because you're comparing 4 games to 16. If you can't understand the difference that's on you. 

[Creekside]

11 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

I don't think any of us expected to see Brissett improving at quite this rate.  

 

How could he not improve?

 

It honestly does not surprise me. Not at all. Because Brissett in 2017 played at a respectable level in spite of ...1) a terrible O-line ...2) a terrible scheme .... 3) the most predictable offense in the NFL. ... 4) only two legit receiving weapons in Hilton and Doyle (yet Brissett sent the both to the pro bowl.

 

It's not so much that Brissett has improved as the offense has improved.  

 

 

 

[Imgrandojji]

I agree, but at the same time I don't think anyone saw a 5:1 TD-INT rate in the first 4 games

[Superman]

14 hours ago, GoatBeard said:

Or how about the fact he has done enough to be 4-0 or at worst 3-1, despite playing from behind most of the time, dealing with a very young roster, injury problems at receiver, dropped passes, poor defensive play, horrific special teams play.........it sure beats "well he missed Deon Cain on a play, and Parris Campbell on another play"......he will probably never be truly elite because he cant make those reads right now and doesnt always make the best possible decision....... At least in my eyes.

 

You're conflating several different issues here.

 

1) JB won his first ever start in the NFL. He was 11/19 with 103 yards and a rushing TD. The Pats beat the Texans 27-0 in Foxborough. "Doing enough to win" isn't the same as being a good QB. Let's stop talking about the win/loss record. 

 

2) "He will probably never be truly elite" is a true statement for 98% of NFL QBs. It's not a slight against JB. It's more an expression of a statistical likelihood than anything else.

 

3) He does miss reads, and he doesn't always make the right decision. Let's acknowledge that as fact. Let's also acknowledge that this is not unique to JB.

 

4) Missing reads and making sub-optimal decisions is something that happens to every QB. The difference is that really good and great QBs miss far fewer reads, make optimal decisions more often, and make outstanding plays at critical times in the game. While slightly above average QBs miss more reads and make more sub-optimal decisions, and when the team needs them to step up with a big play, they aren't able to do so reliably. 

 

5) Playing from behind is something that the offense has to own just as much as the defense, and JB runs the offense. 

 

As I said before, playmaking, reading defenses, adjustments, anticipation are all critical factors to playing QB on a team that can win in the playoffs. Especially when that team isn't a historically great defense. There's nothing unfair about evaluating JB against that standard.

[Creekside]

9 minutes ago, 912Colts said:

Because you're comparing 4 games to 16. If you can't understand the difference that's on you. 

 

We are talking about Brissett's performance now. 

 

If some one believes that Brissett's stats at year's end will be nothing like they are now. Fine.

 

But what they are now is what they are. Nothing is "skewed".

 

 

[El Potro]

Just now, egg said:

But what they are now is what they are.

Exactly. I'm not trying to take it away from him. But to expect it to continue is a bit insane. To put it in perspective, Mahomes at the moment is projected to end with 6,040 yards & 58 TD's or something crazy like that. That's nuts even for him. 

 

Just now, egg said:

Nothing is "skewed".

It's skewed when compared to his season long performance in 2017. Other than that, it's not skewed.  

[Creekside]

5 minutes ago, 912Colts said:

Exactly. I'm not trying to take it away from him. But to expect it to continue is a bit insane. To put it in perspective, Mahomes at the moment is projected to end with 6,040 yards & 58 TD's or something crazy like that. That's nuts even for him. 

 

It's skewed when compared to his season long performance in 2017. Other than that, it's not skewed.  

 

When did I say that?

 

When did any one say that? 

 

I said in a previous post that i do not expect Brissett to throw for 40 tds.

 

No one is even predicting what will be at season's end. That's not the discussion.

 

Just what is now. ........ The present performance of the Colt's QB.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Goatface Killah]

24 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

You're conflating several different issues here.

 

1) JB won his first ever start in the NFL. He was 11/19 with 103 yards and a rushing TD. The Pats beat the Texans 27-0 in Foxborough. "Doing enough to win" isn't the same as being a good QB. Let's stop talking about the win/loss record. 

 

2) "He will probably never be truly elite" is a true statement for 98% of NFL QBs. It's not a slight against JB. It's more an expression of a statistical likelihood than anything else.

 

3) He does miss reads, and he doesn't always make the right decision. Let's acknowledge that as fact. Let's also acknowledge that this is not unique to JB.

 

4) Missing reads and making sub-optimal decisions is something that happens to every QB. The difference is that really good and great QBs miss far fewer reads, make optimal decisions more often, and make outstanding plays at critical times in the game. While slightly above average QBs miss more reads and make more sub-optimal decisions, and when the team needs them to step up with a big play, they aren't able to do so reliably. 

 

5) Playing from behind is something that the offense has to own just as much as the defense, and JB runs the offense. 

 

As I said before, playmaking, reading defenses, adjustments, anticipation are all critical factors to playing QB on a team that can win in the playoffs. Especially when that team isn't a historically great defense. There's nothing unfair about evaluating JB against that standard.

Ok. But the problem is, he does do those things you speak of on some level. Because playing QB simply requires it.

 

Does he do them at an elite level? No.

 

Will he? How the * do any of us know that? It depends on his dedication to film study, practice habits and his ability to translate those on the field. But when I see how far he has come, from a guy BB didnt trust to throw it downfield, to today, I see a lot of improvement. So that tells me he has at least some form of work ethic.

 

I dont have a problem with your opinion, I have a problem with you suggesting there is a line or that it is an absolute necessity. Because right now, its not even a possibility. Just like it wasnt for Tom Brady until Randy Moss arrived on the scene. Brady was a 2-3 read QB for years. He is now the most decorated QB to ever put on a helmet. Roethlisberger as well. Theres a fairly long list of QBs to win titles that werent elite. Of course, it's not likely Brissett becomes that kind of QB. But that's not worth discussing to me because it's a debate that can only go in a circle. Even the elite QBs have a small chance to do those things. Look at Luck, look at Marino, look at Drew Bledsoe, who was a very talented QB and when he was drafted people said he was a special talent because he had "Marino like" arm talent. He lost his job to a 2 read, 6th round pick QB. Why? Because the offense ran better with the simplistic approach Tom Brady offered. The team played better because they were more consistent, even if they were less explosive. It might not have been the right move for the Cincinnatti Bengals, but it was the right move for NE.

 

It all comes down to making plays and winning games. And that is so dependent on your teammates that it almost never boils down to the QB having a special ability to read defenses. If we can build a special team around him, he is good enough to win games for us. That's all I've said and that's all I meant. Hes not Brady Brees or Mahommes. But hes also not Jamarcus Russell. He is in that in between group. And that's ok with me, right now.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Ballard mentioned last night in his interview even as a backup JB has always prepared for games as if he is the starter. He is very dedicated.

[Superman]

22 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

Does he do them at an elite level? No.

 

That's my point.

 

Quote

Will he? How the * do any of us know that? It depends on his dedication to film study, practice habits and his ability to translate those on the field. But when I see how far he has come, from a guy BB didnt trust to throw it downfield, to today, I see a lot of improvement. So that tells me he has at least some form of work ethic.

 

No one has ever knocked his work ethic or denied his improvement. My concern is that some of these traits seem to be more innate than learned -- anticipation and playmaking, for instance. That doesn't mean he can't get better, but again, there's a long list of NFL QBs who never made the leap from where JB is now to that next level. Because it's not automatic.

 

Quote

I dont have a problem with your opinion, I have a problem with you suggesting there is a line or that it is an absolute necessity. 

 

I don't know for sure what you mean by this. But it's absolutely necessary that a QB for a title contender be able to do these things, unless your defense is great enough to make up for it.

 

Quote

Because right now, its not even a possibility. Just like it wasnt for Tom Brady until Randy Moss arrived on the scene. Brady was a 2-3 read QB for years. He is now the most decorated QB to ever put on a helmet.

 

He's also a statistical anomaly. JB most likely will not be the next Tom Brady. There will most likely never be another Tom Brady.

 

Quote

Roethlisberger as well. Theres a fairly long list of QBs to win titles that werent elite. Of course, it's not likely Brissett becomes that kind of QB. But that's not worth discussing to me because it's a debate that can only go in a circle. Even the elite QBs have a small chance to do those things. Look at Luck, look at Marino, look at Drew Bledsoe, who was a very talented QB and when he was drafted people said he was a special talent because he had "Marino like" arm talent. He lost his job to a 2 read, 6th round pick QB. Why? Because the offense ran better with the simplistic approach Tom Brady offered. The team played better because they were more consistent, even if they were less explosive. It might not have been the right move for the Cincinnatti Bengals, but it was the right move for NE.

 

I think Ben was better at making plays downfield even as a rookie, but he absolutely developed over the course of a few seasons. Every QB does. I'm certainly not suggesting JB won't develop with more time. 

 

Drew Bledsoe lost his job to a statistical anomaly, playing for the greatest coach of all time, with the benefit of a top 10 defense. He was also coming off of multiple seasons of mediocre play. And it's not like he just got benched. He got hurt, they had some magic with Brady, and never looked back. If the Colts can capture that kind of magic this season, I will be very happy. But I'll still be looking for improvement from JB as time goes on.

 

Quote

It all comes down to making plays and winning games. And that is so dependent on your teammates that it almost never boils down to the QB having a special ability to read defenses. If we can build a special team around him, he is good enough to win games for us. That's all I've said and that's all I meant. Hes not Brady Brees or Mahommes. But hes also not Jamarcus Russell. He is in that in between group. And that's ok with me, right now.

 

I disagree with the bolded. Consistently good QBing is very dependent on the QB being able to read defenses. And consistently good QBing helps a team win games.

 

If we can build a special team around him, that would be awesome. But I think it's fair to evaluate his contributions, just like we would any other QB. 

 

And there are several tiers between Brady/Brees/Mahomes and Russell. Is he on that Roethlisberger tier, or closer to the Mariota tier? We'll see if JB is on a "good enough" tier as time goes on. But that's still a high bar to clear, one that many QBs never reach. So it's not a given that, just because JB has physical tools and a good work ethic, that he'll eventually be "good enough" to contend for a SB. He could be, I'm not writing him off. I'm just giving my opinion about what he needs to do better to get there.

[El Potro]

Just now, egg said:

 

When did I say that?

 

When did any one say that? 

 

I said in a previous post that i do not expect Brissett to throw for 40 tds.

 

No one is even predicting what will be at season's end. That's not the discussion.

 

Just what is now. ........ The present performance of the Colt's QB.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Others have. Maybe you have more realistic expectations.

 

But based off of his current 4 game performance those are the projections and are some peoples expectations. Which is just crazy. 

[Goatface Killah]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

That's my point.

 

 

No one has ever knocked his work ethic or denied his improvement. My concern is that some of these traits seem to be more innate than learned -- anticipation and playmaking, for instance. That doesn't mean he can't get better, but again, there's a long list of NFL QBs who never made the leap from where JB is now to that next level. Because it's not automatic.

 

 

I don't know for sure what you mean by this. But it's absolutely necessary that a QB for a title contender be able to do these things, unless your defense is great enough to make up for it.

 

 

He's also a statistical anomaly. JB most likely will not be the next Tom Brady. There will most likely never be another Tom Brady.

 

 

I think Ben was better at making plays downfield even as a rookie, but he absolutely developed over the course of a few seasons. Every QB does. I'm certainly not suggesting JB won't develop with more time. 

 

Drew Bledsoe lost his job to a statistical anomaly, playing for the greatest coach of all time, with the benefit of a top 10 defense. He was also coming off of multiple seasons of mediocre play. And it's not like he just got benched. He got hurt, they had some magic with Brady, and never looked back. If the Colts can capture that kind of magic this season, I will be very happy. But I'll still be looking for improvement from JB as time goes on.

 

 

I disagree with the bolded. Consistently good QBing is very dependent on the QB being able to read defenses. And consistently good QBing helps a team win games.

 

If we can build a special team around him, that would be awesome. But I think it's fair to evaluate his contributions, just like we would any other QB. 

 

And there are several tiers between Brady/Brees/Mahomes and Russell. We'll see if JB is on a good enough tier as time goes on. But that's still a high bar to clear, one that many QBs never reach. So it's not a given that, just because JB has physical tools and a good work ethic, that he'll eventually be "good enough" to contend for a SB. He could be, I'm not writing him off. I'm just giving my opinion about what he needs to do better to get there.

Brady is an anomaly, but you cant deny that he never gets there without BB overlooking his diffeciencies, for years, and trusting him to improve. He valued what he gave them, before he ever became elite.

 

I use him to show it's possible. Most QBs dont get the leash playing for the Patriots allowed him, or the time to develop. He did it thru good ole fashioned hard work. Maybe if we recognize a young QB who has very similar traits, he can develop as well? I feel like Jacoby plays like an elite QB, situationally. Much like Brady and Roethlisberger did in their younger days.

 

It boils down to this for me. I would rather try to build the great defense, than try to replace a pretty good, and improving QB that displays as many important traits as Brissett. So I want him to succeed here. And I would rather do that, because I feel it is a much easier, more sustainable and an overall better path to building a team. I am tired of being a one man show. And I think teams fall in that trap of thinking they need an elite QB, and wind up spinning their wheels for years. Let's not forget it's hard to find a QB even as good as Jacoby. These guys dont grow on trees.

 

And I feel this way because I think we already have some of the pieces for that defense. Hooker is a special player if he can stay healthy, that would allow us to play virtually any coverage we want. Leonard is a special talent at LB too. Kenny Moore is a valuable piece as a slot corner. Ya Sin is gonna be a really good corner in time. I think Turay has a chance to be a double digit sack guy. I feel like we just need to build the DL in the same way we have built the OL. We need that Quenton Nelson type talent on that side of the ball to set the tone on the field. 

 

When I look at the Colts I see a very talented team with a good head coach. And I dont think they are that far off. I like the way the offense is called. I like the fact we take care of the ball and rely on the running game. I love the fact we can run on 4th and 3 and pick it up, which is a new thing for us with this version of the Colts. I think a lot of these deficiencies can be masked by a great play action passing game. 

 

Go out and get 2 elite DL and it will do more for our chances of winning than replacing Brissett with a better QB, which isnt going to be easy BTW. If the guy is top 15, there are only 14 guys better right now, and they arent exactly available.

[Imgrandojji]

20 minutes ago, 912Colts said:

Others have. Maybe you have more realistic expectations.

 

But based off of his current 4 game performance those are the projections and are some peoples expectations. Which is just crazy. 

Worth noting that these 4 games haven't exactly been a cream puff schedule. 

 

The Falcons are the only team we've played so far with a worse record than we have.  All of our other 3 opponents, yes even the Raiders, have the same record we have.

[aaron11]

3 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

Brady is an anomaly, but you cant deny that he never gets there without BB overlooking his diffeciencies, for years, and trusting him to improve. He valued what he gave them, before he ever became elite.

 

I use him to show it's possible. Most QBs dont get the leash playing for the Patriots allowed him, or the time to develop. He did it thru good ole fashioned hard work. Maybe if we recognize a young QB who has very similar traits, he can develop as well? I feel like Jacoby plays like an elite QB, situationally. Much like Brady and Roethlisberger did in their younger days.

 

It boils down to this for me. I would rather try to build the great defense, than try to replace a pretty good, and improving QB that displays as many important traits as Brissett. So I want him to succeed here. And I would rather do that, because I feel it is a much easier, more sustainable and an overall better path to building a team. I am tired of being a one man show. And I think teams fall in that trap of thinking they need an elite QB, and wind up spinning their wheels for years. Let's not forget it's hard to find a QB even as good as Jacoby. These guys dont grow on trees.

 

And I feel this way because I think we already have some of the pieces for that defense. Hooker is a special player if he can stay healthy, that would allow us to play virtually any coverage we want. Leonard is a special talent at LB too. Kenny Moore is a valuable piece as a slot corner. Ya Sin is gonna be a really good corner in time. I think Turay has a chance to be a double digit sack guy. I feel like we just need to build the DL in the same way we have built the OL. We need that Quenton Nelson type talent on that side of the ball to set the tone on the field. 

 

When I look at the Colts I see a very talented team with a good head coach. And I dont think they are that far off. I like the way the offense is called. I like the fact we take care of the ball and rely on the running game. I love the fact we can run on 4th and 3 and pick it up, which is a new thing for us with this version of the Colts. I think a lot of these deficiencies can be masked by a great play action passing game. 

 

Go out and get 2 elite DL and it will do more for our chances of winning than replacing Brissett with a better QB, which isnt going to be easy BTW. If the guy is top 15, there are only 14 guys better right now, and they arent exactly available.

 

hard to build a great defense too, and they usually dont last that long.  you say we dont need elite Qb play, i say we dont need elite dline play.  the line was pretty good last year, with guys like autry and al woods playing well. 

 

good QB play is a formula for sustained wins in the league, and to me Jacoby is mediocre.  his efficiency numbers are not as great as they look at first, the whole league is becoming more efficient.  he only has 2 interceptions, but thats also only good enough for middle of the pack these days.  lots of starters have zero or 1 with more attempts.   his interceptions were bad too

 

[csmopar]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001061244/article/colts-gm-since-taking-over-brissett-hasnt-flinched

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

The colts finished last season as the tenth ranked offense. Currently we are 12th in yards per game. This team is not far off from last season.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

13 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

 

hard to build a great defense too, and they usually dont last that long.  you say we dont need elite Qb play, i say we dont need elite dline play.  the line was pretty good last year, with guys like autry and al woods playing well. 

 

good QB play is a formula for sustained wins in the league, and to me Jacoby is mediocre.  his efficiency numbers are not as great as they look at first, the whole league is becoming more efficient.  he only has 2 interceptions, but thats also only good enough for middle of the pack these days.  lots of starters have zero or 1 with more attempts.   his interceptions were bad too

 

You really need to erase that word mediocre from your vocabulary. A mediocre QB does not have ten TD after 4 games. 

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

Brady is an anomaly, but you cant deny that he never gets there without BB overlooking his diffeciencies, for years, and trusting him to improve. He valued what he gave them, before he ever became elite.

 

They didn't overlook his deficiencies, they coached with them in mind. Still do, that's why the Pats have invested so much in the defense and running game in recent years.

 

Quote

I use him to show it's possible. Most QBs dont get the leash playing for the Patriots allowed him, or the time to develop. He did it thru good ole fashioned hard work. Maybe if we recognize a young QB who has very similar traits, he can develop as well? I feel like Jacoby plays like an elite QB, situationally. Much like Brady and Roethlisberger did in their younger days.

 

Possible, plausible and probable... It's improbable that JB has a third of the success Tom Brady's had, making this is an implausible projection to begin with.

 

I also don't agree that JB plays like an elite QB situationally, but that's heavily influenced by his 15 starts in 2017. It's too early to really judge his situational play in 2019, but it's been a mixed bag so far. I don't know what you've seen to suggest that he's "elite" situationally.

 

Quote

It boils down to this for me. I would rather try to build the great defense, than try to replace a pretty good, and improving QB that displays as many important traits as Brissett. So I want him to succeed here. And I would rather do that, because I feel it is a much easier, more sustainable and an overall better path to building a team. I am tired of being a one man show. And I think teams fall in that trap of thinking they need an elite QB, and wind up spinning their wheels for years. Let's not forget it's hard to find a QB even as good as Jacoby. These guys dont grow on trees.

 

That's fine, we all want a strong, deep, balanced roster. But historically, if you don't have a QB who can make plays consistently, you need a top five defense to win a SB. I don't think it's easier and more sustainable to build a top five defense than it is to find a playmaking QB; I think there are more teams with playmaking QBs and bad defenses than the other way around, especially over the last 5-7 years.

 

To the bolded, I said after last season that the worst thing the Colts can do moving forward is to allow good to be the enemy of great. I was talking about the defense and the OL for the most part. I think that will apply to our evaluation of the QB position moving forward. JB has to prove that he's good enough. I'm willing to give him the chance to do that, but I also think the staff has to be honest and critical in evaluating him, and if he's not checking the right boxes, they have to make a reasonable effort to upgrade. That doesn't mean sell the farm for Tua in 2020, but it does mean making sure you aren't accepting mediocrity just because 'it's hard to find a good QB.' 

 

By the way, I think finding a QB as good as Jacoby is getting easier as QBs get better coaching and development, and as NFL offenses continue to adapt college style offenses. But it's still hard to find an elite guy.  

 

Quote

 

When I look at the Colts I see a very talented team with a good head coach. And I dont think they are that far off. I like the way the offense is called. I like the fact we take care of the ball and rely on the running game. I love the fact we can run on 4th and 3 and pick it up, which is a new thing for us with this version of the Colts. I think a lot of these deficiencies can be masked by a great play action passing game. 

 

Go out and get 2 elite DL and it will do more for our chances of winning than replacing Brissett with a better QB, which isnt going to be easy BTW. If the guy is top 15, there are only 14 guys better right now, and they arent exactly available.

 

 

It's not hard to project us as a top eight team, but that will take a lot of the young guys performing, which again is not a given. The defense is far from being top ten, statistically and situationally, but again that's with a lot of injuries and young players. I still think we're another draft class away, which probably means two years before the defense is impressive. 

[aaron11]

the defense is missing their two best players that also play the two most important positions in the back 7.  Walker is not a Will linebacker and its killing us against the run and short passes.  

 

missing hooker sucks too, replacement safetys are never going to replicate what he does in coverage.

[aaron11]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

 A mediocre QB does not have ten TD after 4 games. 

apparently they do, because Jacoby has that right now. 

 

i remember a few weeks ago you said it wasnt about stats when they didnt make him look very good.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I saw a tweet this morning that surprised me. Brady was sacked more times in his first three seasons then Luck was in his first three seasons.

[Goatface Killah]

16 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

 

hard to build a great defense too, and they usually dont last that long.  you say we dont need elite Qb play, i say we dont need elite dline play.  the line was pretty good last year, with guys like autry and al woods playing well. 

 

good QB play is a formula for sustained wins in the league, and to me Jacoby is mediocre.  his efficiency numbers are not as great as they look at first, the whole league is becoming more efficient.  he only has 2 interceptions, but thats also only good enough for middle of the pack these days.  lots of starters have zero or 1 with more attempts.   his interceptions were bad too

 

And this is what people like me have a problem with.

 

Jacoby has absolutely gave us good QB play. It can be better. But to suggest it's been mediocre is comical while the guy is leading the league in TD passes.

 

Brissett critics sit around and just ignore what the guys doing.

 

He IS making plays, he made 10 of them so far and had another one dropped. Mahommes throws the ball all over the place and he doesnt have any more TDs than Jacoby Brissett.

 

Maybe, just maybe, this stuff isnt nearly as important as you guys think?